City of Chandler Special Meeting 6/2/2025

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[Music]
Oh yeah.
Thank you.
Good evening. I want to call this
meeting to order. Thank you all for
joining us on this uh uh newly scheduled
special meeting of the Chandler City
Council. Uh clerk, would you please take
the role? Mayor Hartkey, present. Vice
Mayor Ellis here. Council member Incinis
here. Council member Poston present.
Council member Orlando here. Council
member Harris here. Council member
Hawkins here. We have a quorum. Thank
you very
much. Council, we've got uh a couple
items um for discussion and action.
There are a number of speaker cards and
I will go like we have done before in
terms of us having an opportunity to
there will be a presentation on these
items an opportunity to discuss uh
allowing speaker cards. I will ask our
audience that please do not be
redundant. You can say I agree with such
and such rather than articulating the
same thing. You will have up to three
minutes. So if you choose to, you are
welcome to do that. But uh just for the
sake of the meeting,
uh if what you if you feel what you're
saying is being covered, feel free to
also say that as well. And before we get
into these, I I would like to um read a
couple things here.
So council, as mayor, I do want us to
address some important items for
discussion tonight. This is to review
and consider a path forward with
potential amendments to our city charter
in preparation for the charter election
scheduled in November 2025 and beyond.
The Chandler city charter charter
originally adopted by voters in
1965 serves as the foundation of our
city government. It is in essence
Chandler's constitution, a document that
defines our structure, our powers of
elected officials, and how we operate as
local government. And like any
foundational document, it must be
regularly reviewed and thoughtfully
updated to reflect the evolution,
growth, and modern needs of our
community. And over the past six
decades, Chandler has grown from a small
farming community that was beginning to
urbanize into a dynamic, diverse, modern
city of nearly 300,000 residents. I
think we're 291 is the last I read this
week. Our responsibilities have
expanded, technology has advanced, and
the expectations of our residents has
certainly evolved over time. And yet
much of the charter is the same language
when it was originally adopted. So it's
to be expected that some of the language
could be outdated or ambiguous due to
modern
circumstances. This is why it's vital
that we as a united forward-looking
council take action to ensure our city
charter continues to serve the needs of
Chandler today as well as for future
generations. It's not about politics.
It's not about political gain. rewriting
history or even rushing change. There's
not a moment to assign blame for what's
been outdated in the charter or for
delays in addressing these matters. The
current language of the charter is a
product of its time. And we must
approach this task with the spirit of
accountability, not criticism. Our
responsibility is not to dwell on the
past, but ensure that we give our
Chandler voters the opportunity to
consider meaningful, well-vetted changes
that enhance transparency, efficiency,
and good
governance. To that end, I'm calling
tonight for the establishment of a
charter uh city charter amendment,
resident advisory committee. We'll be
voting on that as well. This nine-member
committee will consist of Chandler
residents with diverse expectations and
perspectives. Its role will be to
conduct a comprehensive review of our
city charter and recommend future
changes that council may consider
placing on a future ballot. This is not
in conflict with the discussion tonight
on another ballot uh suggestion to be
placed on the November ballot. It
complements that, not competes. And I've
invited each of you council to recommend
individuals and uh who are actively and
positively engaged in our community.
Consider those who reflect the diversity
of Chandler's residents who bring
professional expertise, civic
involvement, and a shared commitment to
our city's long-term success.
And another language that I just
referred to is to consider the proposed
language for a charter amendment related
to the term of future mayors and council
members. This considers this proposal
deserves careful attention. It's why
that it was delayed to have better
attention and comments from last Monday
or last week. And we're entrusted with
ensuring the language is clean, fair,
and ready for voter consideration.
I'm confident that through constructive
collaboration and responsible
leadership, we will fulfill these tasks
with integrity. Tonight, let us also
remember that any changes we consider
will ultimately be decided by Chandler
voters, not us. Anything that is
requested to be placed on a ballot is by
voted on by Chandler voters. This body's
uh responsibilities tonight is to vote
whether to establish a a citizen charter
review committee and to refer something
to the
ballot. If the ch if the citizen charter
review committee makes suggestions,
those two will be placed on a future
ballot. That committee will neither nor
will council be making charter
amendments only to make recommendations
to the ballot. Our role is to steward
this process with integrity and ensure
that what reaches the ballot reflects
thoughtful input, community values,
sound governance, and keeping Chandler
out of the news as much as possible. So,
let's model this kind of respectful,
forward-thinking governance that
Chandler residents expect and deserve.
And by working together, we can continue
to honor our past, address our present,
and prepare Chandler for a strong and
responsive future. I want to thank you,
council, for your commitment to serving
our city with wisdom, and with care. And
I want to thank our audience who is here
because you care. You're interested in
our city. You might not all have the
same view, but none of us up here doubts
that you are here because you're
interested in the well-being of our city
and the direction of its future. So,
with that, our first item is resolution
number
5913, ordering and calling a special
election for the submission of a
proposed amendments to the city charter
clarifying term limits for ch for
council members and mayor. I would like
to turn it over to our city attorney for
a uh a viewing and an understanding that
not only that we will share but our
audience. We will then discuss this and
then take a listen to our speaker cards
and then vote and then move on to number
two. City attorney. Thank you mayor. Um,
pleasure to be here tonight to talk to
you about this and um, thank you for
excusing me from the last meeting on May
22nd as I wanted to be there in person
for my child's high school graduation.
So, I appreciate that and I'm very proud
that I have a Chandler High School
graduate now going to ASU. So, um, thank
you. Very proud. So, um, why we're here
tonight is we do have an old charter. It
is 60 years old. Um, and some of the
language has
evolved and not always as clear as we
would like it to be. And so I'm going to
walk through kind of the history of why
we're here and the path forward and the
options
available. So first of all, we want to
clarify why the current language is
vague and needs updating.
Um we at the city attorney's office, our
obligation is to give legal advice to
the city through the city council and
through the staff. It is not to advise
candidates for office. Candidates need
to obtain their own legal advice before
they um choose to submit and and run for
office. However, when inquiries are
made, then we will follow up.
So through that process, an inquiry is
made and we went and looked at the
charter language as two term limits and
it was we found it to be confusing. And
if anyone's been aware of what's been
going on in the media, both in the print
and in um interviews, there are a lot of
people with a lot of different opinions.
Clearly, the language is ambiguous and
confusing. So, it benefits the city and
its residents to have more clear
language that lays out the term limits
explicitly so there is not that
confusion and differing opinions. So,
we're going to talk about the process
for making and adopting the charter
amendment. And then, of course,
ultimately, it's up to the mayor and
council if they want to go forward and
put this amendment on the uh election in
November and then ultimately for the
voters to decide whether to approve the
amendment or not. So, the city charter
is really the uh city's governing
document. It's it's kind of like our
local constitution is a good way to to
to um state it. It originally was
approved by the voters and it governs
how we do different things in the city
and again it ours is 60 years old. Um it
was drafted before the internet before a
lot of uh modern technology. And when we
have language that is vague or ambiguous
it leads to confusion, inconsistency and
public trust. So that therefore there's
a benefit to having an updated charter
that promotes transparency, fairness and
trust in our government. And I want to
say at this point there is no
determination of any violations of our
charter there. We think that um there's
misalignment. The language is not clear
and it has been it is to our benefit to
make sure the language is clear and we
are on a a clear stream forward. That is
a good um path for uh a good reason to
revise language that is old. Um, but
again, there's been no violation um
found or or determined. Um, in our
current language, I put it up for
everybody to see, and I highlighted the
provisions that caused the confusion.
So, when we went and looked at the
language, we at the city attorney's
office, we were confused by it. We did
consult with an elections law expert who
has been on a contract with the city for
a few years to answer and address
election matters where we may have a
conflict of interest or where uh we need
an expertise. We consulted with that
person. They had an opinion. Um we had
others that had differing opinions and
therefore we came to the conclusion that
the language is vague and should be
cleaned up. And again, as I talked
about, um, in 1965 when the charter was
adopted, it did not have term limits for
council or mayor. And in 1972,
um, it was amended by the voters and it
limited election officials to two terms
as council member, two terms as mayor,
and it had the language not to exceed 12
consecutive years. Just a reminder, at
that time, the mayor terms were two
years, council terms were four years.
And then from 96 to 97 there was some
special election and that got us to the
current version of our term
language and it tried to combine a
number of issues including term limits,
resignations, combinations of service
and transition periods and unfortunately
that's where I think we have some the
confusion that has come up. I think it
is clear and consistent that
historically the charter has been
interpreted that council members are
limited to two terms and then they need
to take four years off before they run
for council again. Mayor is two terms
and then they need to take four years
off before they could run for c mayor
again. And that um a person who has run
two terms for council can run two terms
for mayor before they have to take that
break. And as you can see from the
history, that is what has happened going
all the way back to
1966. And you can see that many of our
two-term council members turned around
and ran for two terms as mayor.
Um, and again, term limits were imposed
in
1972, including our own current mayor
who is on your second term as
mayor. So again, how did we get here? Um
the mayor expressed an interest in
running for a council member after
completing your two terms. Um we did a
legal review of the language after
inquiry was made and we were concerned
about the language. Um, and again, as
I've said, if anyone has read in the um
online or listened to talk shows,
there's a lot of opinions out there, a
lot of opinions from attorneys, and they
do not agree, which shows us that this
is we have language that is unclear. So
the goal now is to provide language that
is clear and not confusing and lays out
language that is consistent with the
prior interpretations of the city and
and the history of how our mayors have
been
elected. And again um when you have
ambiguity there is res we can have legal
challenges and be in court. Um it in we
may have inconsistent enforcement
mistrust and it makes succession
planning difficult. Um
so this charter amendment we're going to
discuss if approved will not change the
term limits. It merely clarifies what
consistent with the prior practice and
prior interpretations. It aligns the
language with our long-standing practice
and it strengthens transparency and
fairness.
So, we'll go through the draft charter
amendment. Some are just a little
cleanup. Um, we've referred some places
we've replaced council men with council
members. Other places we haven't. So,
these are just a little clean up to make
that
consistent. And as you can see, nothing
changes here. Um, and this is in uh
section uh 2.01 of the charter. And then
when we get to section
E, this is where we're proposing um an
amendment that would take out this
language that cobbled a bunch of ideas
together and separate them out into
different sections to make it more
clear. So we propose deleting the
entirety of section E and replacing it
as follows. And the first part is
clarifying that no person shall be
eligible to be elected to the office of
council member for more than two
consecutive terms and that um you can't
hold office as a council member after
you've served your two terms till you
sat out at least four
years. And where it says except as
provided in section 2.06 C that is
relates to filling of vacancies by
council. And then the second part would
be the same language for the mayor. the
mayor can serve two terms, then needs to
sit out at least four years before
they're eligible to serve as mayor
again. And then we go to section three
that somebody could serve two terms as
council member, two terms as mayor, and
then after serving those 16 consecutive
years of combined service, they would
have to sit out for four years. And then
because we do have staggered terms in
Chandler, meaning some of you are up for
election next year, some of you are not
up for reelection for two more years. Um
that creates a gap because the mayor
position will be up for election in
2026. Um and then there are council
members who may want to run in 2030. So
we we do have a gap time. So we
addressed that in section number four
where the person who served two years as
council member has a break in service
because of the staggered terms then they
could run for two terms as mayor before
they had to sit out for four years. And
that is the clarification that was
discussed quite extensively at the last
meeting. And then finally um number five
anyone with elected or appointed terms
of less than four years um sh that those
partial terms are not counted in the
above time limitations. And then again
the clarifying language and then taking
out language regarding incumbents from
1997 that's no longer
relevant. That is the uh draft we
propose. And what that does, it
clarifies the language as I've just
stated before um as you can see in the
chart where um it's clear somebody could
do two terms council member, two terms
mayor, sit out or just two terms council
member sit out then come back and run
for council or or likewise with mayor.
So we think this makes this that
language that we've added there makes it
consistent with um the practice the
prior interpretations and I believe
probably what was intended by the old
language but again um I don't think it's
as clear as it could
be. So if the council wants to refer
this matter to the voters um tonight
would be the night to um call the
election for this issue. We already have
an election going in November on
November 4th. Um there would be time to
prepare the publicity pamphlet. People
can com submit pro pro and con arguments
for the publicity pamphlet. That
publicity pamphlet gets mailed to the
voters for education. And then it'll be
a special election on November 4th,
2025. And as I recall, it's an allmale
ballot election. Um so there'll be drop
offs and there'll be more information on
how to participate in that. And then if
approved, the amendment takes a effect
upon the certification of the election
results and approval by the governor. So
in charter elections, we have to get
approval by the governor. And I have
never seen a governor not approve and a
charter amendment that was approved by
the voters. So I don't think that will
be a a big hurdle. And um I think with
that I am happy to answer any questions.
Thank you, city attorney. And uh thank
you for you and Ton and everyone else
who spent a long weekend and a long week
working on this, getting this ready for
tonight. Thank you, Mayor Council. Any
questions? None on my left, none on my
right. Shall we go to speaker
cards? I am uh going to call these in
the order that they were given. All of
the speaker
cards and looked at all the comment
cards seem to result along this
particular item, not the second. So with
that, first up is Beth
Brazelle. And again, I want to encourage
our audience u uh try to come up with
something new to say. You you have up to
three minutes, but uh if you've got
otherwise, you can just say I agree with
the comments by such and such. Please
state your name and address. You have up
to three minutes. Okay. Good evening,
mayor, council members, and city staff.
My name is Beth Brazelle, and I live at
6130 West Shannon Street. I have lived
and voted and paid taxes here for the
past 30 years. I am here this evening to
ask you to vote yes on resolution
5913, ordering and calling a special
election for November 4th, 2025 for the
submission of proposed amendments to the
city charter clarifying term limits for
council members and mayor. I believe it
was made very clear at the last uh
meeting on May 22nd that the members
that were here wanted to have this
clarified in order to avoid any more
confusion as well as to stop any more
expensive litigation. Chandler has a
long history of council members running
for mayor. I and the majority of voters
voted for Boyd Dunn, J Chip Trainy,
Kevin Harky for mayor after serving two
terms on city council. I personally
believe it is very beneficial for our
mayor to have had served on city council
to have that experience before being
elected mayor. Chandler voters have
overwhelmingly supported keeping term
limits a total of 16 years and this
resolution keeps that intact. We already
have a special bond election set for
November 4th. So adding this to the
ballot is being fiscally responsible.
Waiting until 2026 is not giving the
voters the opportunity to have the
charter clarified as soon as possible.
Again, I am asking the council to vote
yes on 5913 and let the chair of voters
decide whether or not the current city
charter should be amended. Thank you.
Thank you, Miss
Brazil. I'm going to turn left or right.
If no council member wants to say
anything, I will move to the next Raquel
Armstrong. And let me also um I let's
let everyone speak. Um, thank you for
not cheering or booing Beth. Let's keep
up that practice through the rest of
this evening and respect our speakers
and um, allow them to say what they
would say without comment, without
cheering or without booing. Raquel,
state your name and address. You have
three minutes. Yes. Good evening. Uh,
Raquel Armstrong. I live at 222 West
Boston Street. Um, thank you, mayor.
Thank you, council. And thank you to the
city attorney's office for this work.
Um, I believe that that presentation
really answered my concerns and
questions and so I just wanted to state
that so I don't take up more time. Thank
you so
much. Our next speaker is Marcia
Whis. Marcia, state your name and
address. You have up to three
minutes when the light turns green.
There it is. Mayor Harky, city council
members and city staff, thank you for
the time to talk to the group. I'm
asking you to consider a no on 5913. And
I'm just asking that if the city uh
attorney based on your what your
findings are that we take time to look
at the entire charter. If we've not done
anything in violation, why are we in a
rush to get this on the ballot? Why
don't we just keep the ballot clean and
give us time to properly vet and write
this the way we need it to be? Because I
I see no end term. There's no set bet.
You can't go be you can't go more than
16 or maybe maybe we need to go longer.
I'm not saying that. But I just would
ask us to consider a thoughtful approach
to this. I've not heard we found a
problem. What is our solution moving
forward? I'm not hearing any of that and
I'm concerned because I don't want to
see us go through this again with all
the in consequences of litigation. So
that's why I'm asking you to to vote no
to take that pause and to reconsider how
we want to approach the entire charter
as a city. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Next up, Ruth Jones. Please
come state your name and address for the
record. You have up to three minutes.
Ruth Jones, 2734 East Birchwood Place,
Channel, Arizona 85249. I keep trying to
do that faster. Um, I'm up here tonight
asking you to vote no. The reason that
the charter was changed and the reason
that this was set up the way it was was
because the voters of this city already
weighed in. There was another vote where
they had an opportunity to increase the
terms and they said no to that. No one
man or group should hold power for an
extended period of time. That's how our
government has always been comprised and
the city of Chandler made the necessary
changes to be sure that not one person
or group would have that power. to tell
me that you have to have two uh uh terms
as a council member before you have
enough knowledge to be the
mayor. It seems unfair to those of you
who are on the council who are new. Are
we saying that a one-term council member
doesn't have the ability to be
mayor? I'm saying to you tonight that
passing this resolution is selfserving.
It is allowing us to have 16 years and
then possibly after two years another 16
years. That is not how our government
was ever meant to be. I sit here today
and look at our city and what the voters
have already weighed in on. The option
to increase terms was put to the voters
and it was voted down. I'm asking you
tonight to remember that. And I'm asking
you to remember that each one of you is
a servant to this city. This isn't your
job, per se. Most of you have jobs
outside of this. This is your
opportunity to serve Chandler. And there
are many good people in this city who
could make a difference for this city.
But if one group or person holds power
for 16
years, you take that away from our
citizens. And I'm asking you to consider
the citizens of this city when you make
this choice tonight. Not your own
political futures or your own
needs. There are plenty of people who
have done two terms and taken a break.
And we need to remember that none of us
is that essential. We work together as a
body for this city. And I'm asking you
to remember that. Thank you.
Thank you.
Next up, uh, Les Minkness. Lesie
Minkus. State your name and address. You
have up to three minutes. Les Minkus,
3372. He's Gemini Court and Chandler.
Um, I I believe that uh I I would like
to hear from each of the council members
about why they're making the decision to
make this vote. I'd like to hear what
your point is. I use an analogy. Um, I'm
I'm in a court uh and I'm saying to the
judge, "Judge, I know the speed limit
was posted, but I don't think that I was
speeding even though I got a ticket. So,
uh, I'd like you to dismiss the case.
We've got a case here right now where
we've got an illegal um uh we've got an
illegal uh council and or mayor and
we're not doing anything about it now to
take any steps to do anything about it.
So, I think that something should be
done. Uh and I'd like to know what the
council member's thinking is as to why
we're not doing anything right now in
order to affect a more legal situation.
Thank you. Thank you. Next up, uh Rick
Hume.
Do I need to give you the admonition?
Mayor, vice mayor, members of the
council, staff, Rickman, 4310 West
Dublin Street, Jim, Arizona. I want to
thank the city attorney's office and
staff for working on this to clean up
this language. I've heard from a couple
speakers just now that this is illegal,
all the kinds of things. The language
was changed in 97 again in
2012. The language never was intended to
limit anything other than going from
council to mayor or if you just want to
become mayor every eight years. So, I do
appreciate the work being done by staff
cleaning up this language. I think this
takes all the the doubt out of what's,
you know, this legal, not legal. The
intent of the last 50 years of council
and mayor's races, uh, just just cleans
this up. So, thank you. Thank
you. Next up, um, I'm I'm not quite sure
I can read the last name. Um, Jan Lano
on Senate
Circle. Is there a Jan? Hi,
Please state your name and address. You
have up to three minutes to share your
thoughts.
Hi there. I'm Lamb Laor
and I live at 1069 East uh Senate Circle
in Chandler. And um I just wanted to
thank the mayor and the whole council
and the staff for spending time on this
and making it um clear. I just wanted to
I have nothing new to say. I just wanted
to support what Beth Brizzle had said
too. I think that we need to have
clarity on the matter and that way
there's no back and forth and it's
stated clearly in the charter.
Thank you, Lon. I apologize for
butchering your name so badly. It's my
handwriting. Sorry. I was trying to I
was trying to rush it in. Thank you.
Next up, Martin Sapota.
Mayor, council, staff, good evening. Uh
891 North Lane, Chandler
85226. I'm here to support this uh
measure. Uh I've got a little bit of a
background that 1997
uh charter change I initiated. We did
that from the dis. uh we put it out to
the vote to the voters the next election
or yeah the next election we could and
it was passed normally uh as a citizen
of this city of this country I like
citizen input uh being a military guy
you don't always get that based on
timing but having said that uh we have
done this before and at that point with
that charter change in term limits it
was merely to do one thing it was to
increase the mayoral term from four or
from two two-year terms to a match of
four two uh two-year terms. Uh after I
left the council, uh the subsequent
council changed that to two consecutive
four-year terms for the mayor. We never
contemplated
uh not having a sitting council member
whether it was well in this case it's
two consecutive terms eight years not
being eligible. That was never
contemplated quite frankly. You can look
at the precedence the history of the
city that was never an issue. So I could
say gosh why the politics why now? I
don't care about any of that. What I
care about is giving you my perspective
why it happened in uh 1997 to make this
city city better with a mayor who gets
to do all sorts of things outside the
council represent represent the city for
more than four years. Okay. And there
was never an intention in that uh
discussion, that election to limit the
term limits of the uh I mean limit a
council member for for two four-year
consecutive terms to not be able to run
for mayor. And the last thing I would
say, yeah, it is the constitution of
this city. I get it. Our United States
constitution. It doesn't have an answer
for anything that could possibly happen.
So from time to time we do go out and
make these clarifications and we should
have that citizen input and we have it
here. Uh my personal belief is it should
go forward. It should pass. I don't
believe anything illegal has happened
here. I think we have to keep it on that
level. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Council member Harris
honorable council member got come on
back up. No, I think this is important
because um I had asked the previous uh
vice mayor and council member Rick
Humeman um what was the time what was
the time period in which you served and
if you can just kind of give more of the
thought process of why that change was
needed to happen. You said you
initiated, but what was it that you guys
were discussing at that point in history
to want to bring this forward and to
essentially the council members deciding
to say yes to bring it to the voters to
allow them to decide? Good question.
Thank you, Councilman Harris. So, I
served from 96 to 2000. Uh I had to take
a little trip and I had a replacement
while I was gone, your mayor. Uh and I
think that worked fine. In fact, there's
probably another charter amendment based
on the uh vacancy, right?
Uh but the context of that is this uh
Chandler wasn't more than maybe 150,000
at that time. Okay, we were growing uh
East Valley partnership and the stuff
that was done in East Valley was very
important and we need a voice. Council
members are great on these commissions,
these boards commissions outside the
city. But guess what? These
organizations want to hear from the
mayor. If you have a mayor that's only
in office for at that time a max of four
years, you don't really have that that
um ability like some tempe I don't think
has term limits. Phoenix has got eight
years, whatever. You don't have the
ability as a mayor to have the same
standing in these committees to really
make those decisions uh for your city as
the other cities and towns do with
mayoral terms being longer. In that
case, it was her funding, highway money.
That's very important. That's our
lifeblood, right? uh a lot of stuff we
did in the Price Road Coral, this
expansion you see today, that
happened probably 40 or 50 years ago,
but it came to fruition because these
monies that were allocated because the
East Valley mayors fought for it and we
just would not have had that if we just
had a mayor that' been in office for for
years because it wouldn't have risen uh
through the ranks of these
organizations. So, the last part of your
question is I had two non-consecutive
terms, but frankly, I was I was through
after my first term. Uh, but my second
term, um, gosh, I can't remember what
the hell it was. It was I took four
years off. Okay. Uh, 200.
So, 2004. 2004. There you go. Yeah. So,
uh, yeah. So, I I I just thought at that
point, as did the council, and it was a
unanimous uh agreement. It was it was uh
it was five to two, and I won't tell you
who the two the centers were, but it did
go to this this body, the das. There was
citizen input. It was voted on. It was
passed. And to a point that was made
earlier, yeah, there's been other
attempts to increase the term limits.
Guess what? The citizens have turned
them down. So, I think I appreciate the
clarification. I think we're on solid
ground and move forward. There's nothing
that's going to preclude me or any other
citizen in this community from giving
you our our opinion, our advice,
whatever you want to take. Uh, and I
think we should continue to do that. So,
mayor, just one last thing. So just just
for clarification, the idea was that
stability there was stability in someone
moving from council member into the
mayor oral role and allowing their terms
to be set for two terms being up to
eight years because of the stability and
what was going on in the region during
that time. So it was important to have a
mayor who can serve potentially eight
years versus four years total. Yeah. So
very candidly there was there wasn't the
stability component you talked about it
wasn't a nexus between hey this person's
in the council for eight years now
you're getting served eight years as as
mayor the the latter is is true but just
pertain to the mayor because we didn't
touch the council terms that was left as
it was we simply said the mayor can
serve up to four two-year terms it was
just two two-year terms for the very
reason of stability and to have you know
the presence we needed these regional
organizations and even the national
organizations. it takes you all that,
you know, to kind of fleet up to
whatever level of leadership you want
for the League of Cities and Towns,
nationally, state, whatever the case may
be. So, it allowed us that opportunity
and I would tell you, um, I still think
it was the right thing to do. Thank you.
Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council
Member Huckus.
Hi. Thank you for being here. I do have
one follow-up question. um just for
sharing some information and and
background on that piece of it where you
said that you and I understand where
you're coming from as far as that
there's value to um have that there for
that length of time to build those
relationships. Uh but can you tell me at
what point where were the citizens
engagement like where what part did it
play in that? Was that before that? Was
that after you guys decided that that's
what you wanted and the direction to go
or where? Well, since I initiated on the
das from the dasis, I had a lot of
people calling me uh names I hadn't
heard of in a long time. But but the
bottom line is the input was there and
to answer your question, the voters
voted on it. So, we had a lot of time
and I don't know what the months were be
between the time we had that discussion
to dis and it went to the the voters,
but there was input. I I can guarantee
you I still get grief about that from
certain people. Uh but again, ultimately
uh you're you're elected to make
decisions. As you probably know by now,
they're not always easy decisions, but
you got to make them. Some people be
happy, some people want to be so happy.
But when it's all said and done, when
you refer something, and I'm not trying
to give a 101 class here, when you refer
something that's been discussed publicly
and and in print and whatever medium you
have, the input is is is there. The
ability to have input is there. And
ultimately, if if the voters decide to
pass it, then they speak. If it ends up
be something
terrible, they'll they'll ask for to
have it referred again. But the clarity,
I think that's what's really important.
I mean, I I'll be honest with
you, until this came up, no one ever
thought there was an issue with being
disqualified because you're on the
council for two terms. Never crossed
someone's mind that I'm aware of. Right.
So, if clarity is what we need, then I
think we have it and I think it's uh
it's good to be referred. Okay. Thank
you. Anybody else?
Thank you, sir.
Our next person is Sher
Johnson. Sherry, please state your name
and address. You have up to three
minutes.
Thank you. My name is Sheri Johnson. I
live at 3627 East Agave Road and I'm a
community leader for legislative
district 12, which includes Chandler.
Um, I spoke at the last meeting, so I'm
not going to reiterate all of the
reasons that I support resolution 5913
um, except to say that I really
appreciate you guys taking just a little
bit longer to um, consider the proposed
language um, for this particular section
of the charter. I read the exhibit and I
think that the proposed language honors
the original intent of consecutive
terms, the wishes of Chandler voters for
term limits and also previous president.
Um, it's important to have this portion
clarified now on the November 2025
ballot rather than later because as
written, the language is um already
being called into question. It's
ambiguous and opens the city up to
potential litigation. It must be cleared
up in November 2025 to ensure the fair
and transparent election in 2026. For
these reasons, I respectfully urge the
council members to support this
resolution. Thank you. Thank you.
Next up, uh, Stephen Vancloenberg.
Stephen, please state your name and
address. You have up to three minutes to
share your thoughts.
Well, there Steven Van Cloudenberg, 4375
South Melody. Longtime Chandler
resident. Proud to be here. Thanks for
having me. uh internet doesn't really
change words, but I understand it may
add additional, you know, opinions on
things. So, it's not a bad idea to, you
know, if if city council figures there's
a and legal figures there's some
ambiguity, let's clear it up. So, for
that reason, I'm going to say let's go
ahead and, you know, vote yes on this
one. I wonder why now, but it's never
too late, you know, to to clarify
something. I I don't think that the
prior language was had any intent for
nefarious or illegal activity.
Um yeah, so I agree with former council
Rick H. and uh I I would say yes to the
to the resolution.
Thank you, sir.
Mr. H.
Next up,
um Council Member Hawkins. Uh I have a
quick question. Uh city manager I know
you have provided some um input
previously as far as the list of
proposed amendment changes that we're
looking at so far. Can you give me an
idea on quantity um so far just at that
quick first look? Yeah, Mr. Mayor and uh
Council Member Hawkins. Um there's a
number throughout the code uh throughout
the charter, excuse me, that we've we've
looked at in the past from a staff
perspective. Um it depends on how far
you want to go. If it's merely uh kind
of technical cleanup or just sort of
adjusting language to reflect modern
terminology, the list could be quite a
bit longer. In terms of substantive
items, there could be maybe half a dozen
in there. Um some of them we've talked
about with council in previous work
sessions related to the number of
readings of uh ordinances that are
required, which Chandler does somewhat
differently than the rest of the valley.
Um residency requirements is the other
one that council's discussed in recent
months. So there are some that are I
would say more substantive and and a
policy decision for the council and then
ultimately for the voters um versus more
of just clean up of things that are
inconsistent between our charter and say
um the way that uh modern business takes
place or the way that state law
prescribes we should consider even
though we we retain some control over
that.
Thank you.
All right. Our next speaker is
Michelle, who lives at
1710
East Redwood. Oh, okay.
Hi. Sorry, Michelle. Couldn't catch your
last name there. Please state your name
and address. You have up to three
minutes. Hi, my name is Michelle Daly. I
live at 1710 East Redwood Place. Um, I
was here that previous meeting and I was
really concerned by all the confusion.
that that was a rough rough meeting and
I just want to say I'm really proud to
see all these improvements. Thank you to
staff and all of your hard work. Um I
just feel like this has been a very
prompt and professional response. I
support bringing this forward to the
voters. Feel this maintains the intent
that has served us well. We never
foresaw these legal challenges prior to
this year from any candidates, their
opponents, any city attorneys, or even
the voters through all those many
elections. So, I do support sending this
to the voters to prevent this current
interpretation that it conflicts with
the intent from affecting any upcoming
mayor council races. Thank you.
And I'm a bit embarrassed when two of my
friends are in the audience and I can't
read their names, so sorry about that.
Just want to make sure you're paying
attention.
Um, council, there's also seven or eight
comment cards. Would you like me to read
these or just enter them into the
records?
Preference. What's that?
Enter into the record, sir.
I've got a couple reads. We'll go ahead
and read. All right. First is Susan
Ellsworth from 3225 South Diamond Drive
in Chandler. I'm going to try to do my
best to read um in situations where a
city
charter
is I'm sorry I can't read that word but
the justification is a past practice the
city charter would generally prevail.
Past practice is a legal doctrine that
can sometimes influence the
interpretation and application of
contracts, but it cannot supersede the
fundamental law of the city charter.
Thank you, Susan. Next, Phil Ellsworth.
Why change
something that is not ambiguous as the
mayor and council want us to believe and
third-party legal review has noted as
clear and
unambiguous as well as too much
collusion. Erica Franks here to support
resolution
5913. Sharon Ward here to support 39
5913.
Dwayne Lidman
support.
Cameron
Batista. These changes will protect our
city from costly litigation and allow
the voters to decide on the changes
passed to
protect 50 years of
precedence. Yvet Garcia
support. Teresa Torpz
support. Council. That's all of the um
cards that have been for speaker cards
and um reader cards. How would you like
to proceed?
Mayor, Council Member Harris, just want
to make some comments. Um before we
proceed, um one, um thank you to the
city attorney's office and their team
for working to get the language cleared
up. Um, I was glad to get uh uh when uh
Council Member Orlando um felt more that
it needed more work, um his leadership
was like, "Hey, let me take hands off
and let's put more work into it." And
I'm glad that each council member also
did the steady work to reach out to the
city attorney to make sure there was
language. Um she was ready and available
and got back with us as soon as
possible. Um, I also was able to get um,
feedback from my constituents out there
in the community and they were also able
to weigh in. I think Martin Sova said it
best. You know, when we are weighing in
on issues today, it gives everyone a
free opportunity to weigh in and
sometimes it that process does not
always need to be formalized through a
committee to say I was on a committee.
But that process is just simply reaching
out to us and making sure that they
know. And I've had a lot of great
feedback from the community. I did
submit um comments or feedback to the
city attorney's office. Um they were
thoughtful in that approach. Uh and I do
definitely feel that um this is what the
document it's a living document is going
to forever change and we have to be as
leaders here. We have to know that it's
going to change. We have to know that
it's not going to be perfect. Um but
this document does allow accountability.
Some areas um where we need more
transparency there and the other areas
where we need to really ramp up and make
sure that is clear. Uh so I am going to
favor this resolution
uh with my support um because I do think
that our qualified team has looked over
this multiple times. They've gotten back
with us. I've taken into consideration.
We've been dealing with this for three
weeks now. So, if someone did not weigh
in on it, that's their own um their own
reasoning for not weighing in, but I
know that council members, we are been
active. My phone has been blowing up and
I am glad to move forward on this um
area and send it back out to the voters
so we can know exactly what they want to
do if they want this language to remain
unclear or if they would like the
language to be clear. And that's kind of
where I'm going to leave it at the
voters. I don't feel like I should be
the one standing in the way of saying
yes or no what you should what you want
for your community or not. My job is to
manage it and um put it out there when
I'm unsure. So, thank you so much for
your time. Thanks, Mayor. Additional
comments before we make a motion.
Anybody else? Council member Genas.
Thank you, Mayor. Um again, I want to
thank you guys all so much for being
here tonight um on a Monday on a special
meeting and providing your input with us
here again. Um, since our last council
meeting, I have spoken to numerous
residents, uh, phone calls, text
messages, emails as well regarding this
cha charter amendment. To be quite
frank, there are people who support it
and there are people who do not support
it. And for me, this charter amendment
isn't making a change to to what the
voters have always wanted these past
decades. This amendment is upholding the
historical precedence of our city and
our voters, council after council, mayor
after mayor. And to answer a resident's
um question here on our thought process,
my personal thought process, I cannot
sit up here on your dis and wait. Wait
while our charter is being questioned.
Wait while my mayor's eligibility is
being challenged. That is not who we
are. and that is not Chandler. But what
I can do is sit here and do what our
residents have always asked of us as
policy makers here in Chandler and that
is to demonstrate sound, mature
leadership. This resolution is
solidifying our past practices and I
give the most confidence to our
residents to uphold that decision or
not. So again, I thank you guys all so
much for being here tonight, being here
with us. I want to thank our city staff
again and our legal team for getting
this all clarified for us. So, thank
you,
Vice Mayor. Thank you, mayor. I
appreciate that. Um to all of you who
were here this evening, may I say thank
you for coming again. Uh last Thursday
when we had the last meeting, I was
online um traveling at a women and
government uh leadership that I was in.
It demands that we as leaders when the
times is right and there is something to
do that we find in
ourselves. Not only the opportunity to
make it right but also the opportunity
to do it in the right
way. We as a council finally had sat
down this evening before we came in here
and had an opportunity to review what
you just saw. had we had the opportunity
to do the same thing prior to this
meeting uh this evening, we would have a
whole different outcome. But somehow
somewhere some information had gotten
into the news that were not unclear to
our voters and that in itself had
created the confusion that we now as
leaders feel that we have to write the
wrong.
So tonight I say thank you to all of you
who have called who have come here and
spoke whether you were for it or against
it. That's not the point tonight. I will
also ask those of us who have been given
the opportunity to serve the people of
Chandler to make sure that we learn
something from this situation that just
happened to us here. Never before in my
39 years of living in the city have I
seen something like that just happened
here before. Yes, there have been a lot
of issues in this city and you all know
that I myself always said it and very
clear about it in Chandler. We do not
wash our dirty laundry in the
streets and I believe that's where we
locked into this. That's where we lost
the mark into this position right now
that we are in. Tonight, I stand before
you as I sit here to say that yes, we
are going to move forward with this
resolution. We are going to put it on
the ballot because the people of
Chandler are saying that there is a way
for us to make a right, something that
is wrong, right?
But
again, let us remind ourselves that we
are elected to serve the people of
Chandler, not ourselves. Thank you,
Mayor.
I guess I'll also make some comments.
Um, I want to thank Mr. Pova for really
bringing a a historical perspective and
I'm grateful that previous mayors like
Boyd Dunn and Jay Tip Shriny had the
opportunity to represent Chandler at a
regional role in terms of leading
Maricopa Association of Governments as
well as Arizona League of Cities. and
Mayor Dunn ended up suing the state
multiple times on behalf of cities and
Chandler in order to uh secure some
funds that were being threatened and
Mayor Tib Shrainy served as well. I've
recently had the chance to um streamline
MAG and eliminate a number of committees
uh make it much more efficient. uh some
staff have been let go as we've just
repurposed the organization to get the
20-year transportation plan out uh while
I while I've been chairing that and in
my role as the president of League of
Cities I am taking on a number of
legislator spots and Mr.
You're right. It takes six years to uh
get in these leadership positions in
which Chandler's voice and Chandler's
leaders have the opportunity to not just
represent Chandler at this days, but
across the the state because of other
cities that have no term limits,
normally occupy these positions, but you
it really is just a timing issue that
it's literally impossible to run into
leadership with shorter terms. So, I do
want to thank you. Um, and I want to
thank Steph, uh, city manager, city
attorney,
uh, this is a this is a wonderful
meeting tonight. I thank you for
bringing clarity, uh, city attorney for
just really setting the stage. I know
that you and your staff and city manager
staff have been working hard to help
clarify and and really clear up the
confusion that we exuded last week. And
um if any offense was taken, I I own my
responsibility for not speaking up to
clarify that at that time. So please
accept any uh any offense or please
forgive any offense that you might have
taken on my part of the same. So thank
you. Any other
comments? All right. A motion would be
in order.
Mayor. Council member Martinez. I move
um city council to pass and adopt
resolution number 5913 ordering and
calling a special election for November
4, 2025 for this submission proposed
amendments to the city charter,
including
um language from council member Hawkins
that reads um am I to read the entire
language there? Okay. Uh, council
members who resign for any reason other
than to run for mayor as required under
state law and this charter. And mayors
who resign shall not be eligible for
reelection or appointment until the
second succeeding city election
following the date of tender of their
written resignation except as provided
in subsection 2.06 C.
We have a motion on the floor. Second.
Second, mayor. Um, I don't I heard
council I heard vice mayor. So nice vice
mayor. We have a motion and a second.
Council, please vote.
Motion carries. Um by majority council
member Hawkins dissenting. Okay. Thank
you. Our next item is item number two.
uh introduction and tenative adoption of
ordinance number 5132. Mayor, if I can
interject for a moment, please. Can I
make sure that motion was clear that um
to make any conforming changes needed to
the resolution to send it to the ballot
in November? If the maker and the second
agree that that is included in the
motion. Yes. with directions to staff to
make all conforming changes necessary uh
before transmitting the resolution to
Maricopa County for placement on the
November 4th, 2025 ballot. Thank you,
sir. And the second remain. Do we need
to do anything else?
We seem good. Thank you for the
clarification.
Item number two is introduction and
tenative adoption of ordinance number
5132 forming a city charter amendment
resident advisory committee and council.
I'm the one bringing this forth. It's um
several of you have have made comments
that a thorough charter review uh would
be in order. Um my proposal is to form a
nine member committee.
uh that this would be the presentation
and first vote if council so choose. We
would then do a second reading um on
what would be next Thursday? Is that
June 12th? And at that time we would
also be voting on members. According to
our procedure, the process is a council
member to bring this forth have up to
seven days for council to be able to
look at the names and then vote on them
and and approve them. I believe that
this will give us an opportunity in
conjunction with this to do a deeper
dive and whether it's the cleanup
language that city manager address
council member Hawkins language as well
as I I want to challenge all of council
members to not just rely on staff to
come up with thoughts but for each of us
make sure copies are available to our
community once we start having these
meetings these will be posted citizens
will be invited and the charter uh the
citizen charter review committee will
have opportunity to engage with this. I
anticipate the amount of time to be less
than one year for them to finish their
work and then at a an appropriate time
um following to then put the the
findings of the citizen charter review
committee to come to us and then on a
ballot sometime next year.
A motion. I I'm just explaining what it
is before a motion is made. Council
member Harrison. Mayor, yeah, thank you.
I I do support what you're doing here. I
think this is a a great opportunity. You
mentioned it before in the last meeting
that it may be important for us to pull
together a group of um great of our of
our residents to come together to look
at the charter. This is a changing
document. And I know Council Member
Hawkins wanted to see something like
this go forth because it's important for
us to have a steady look at it. I
definitely support where we're starting
with this process and I think that um if
again I love the fact that it's going to
be open to the community if your name is
not selected to be a part of this
process is going to be open meetings for
everyone to come to and and still be
able to speak and things of that nature.
And I do love the fact that and even
while we're in that process, mayor, the
residents, if you're not a part of the
committee, you still have the
opportunity to get involved. And I and I
will look forward to the um our staff to
make sure that they can have something
to fill out while we're in that process.
If they see amendments and maybe we need
to create a link, if they see things
that they want to suggest or bring
forward, I think this would be a great
opportunity for everyone to get
involved. Residents shouldn't feel
excluded because they're not a part of
the immediate team, but they should feel
very much included that they can still
be a part whether it's talking to us
directly or filling out some type of
survey or some type of website link that
we can direct people to include their
input. But this is a everybody's
document. I live here, my children live
here, and I'm glad that you brought this
forward, mayor. So, thank you so much.
Thank you, council
member. Seeing no additional comments or
motion. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor Council.
Again, thank you for bringing this
forward. I think it's important that
this document's 60 something years old
and every time we go through it, we find
something that needs to be updated. So,
and um I think the citizens do a great
job on this. Um with that, I move to
introduce tenative adopted ordinance
number 5132 forming a city charter
amendment res resident advisory
committee. We have a motion. Is there a
second? Second. Second by council member
Poston. Um, no additional comments.
Council, please vote.
Motion carries unanimously.
All right.
Um, city clerk, did we have any public
comment cards for tonight
in this particular time at the end? I
have no public comment cards. Okay. that
are that are removed from the two items.
Okay, council, that adjourns our
meeting. We'll be back here Monday with
a regular meeting on June 9th of our
Chandler City Council.