Planning Commission - October 23, 2024

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welcome to the Scottsdale Planning
Commission public hearing the city
encourages your interest and
participation in the public hearing
process the Planning Commission is an
Advisory Board to the city council on
land use and Zoning matters the meeting
agenda items are development
applications that require public
hearings the Planning Commission
considers the request and makes a
recommendation for approval or denial to
the city council the city council makes
the final decision for or or against
approval of the
application the agenda consists of the
Roll Call minutes approval of the prior
meeting continuances are for items that
will not be heard tonight withdrawals
are for items that have been withdrawn
from any further consideration consent
agenda is for items not likely to
require a presentation or discussion all
items on the consent agenda may be voted
on together any commissioner may move
any item from the consent agenda to the
regular agenda regular agenda is where
each item includes a presentation and
recommendation by staff a presentation
by the applicant and public
testimony after the applicant will have
the opportunity to respond to the public
testimony the Planning Commission then
discusses the case and votes non-action
is for items for discussion and no vote
will be made by the Planning
Commission citizens wishing to speak on
any a agenda item may fill out a blue
speaker card or if not willing to speak
may fill out a yellow comment card and
turn it in at the staff table before the
agenda item is be to be discussed the
chair will call you by name when it is
your turn to speak when called come to
the podium state your name and address
and then begin speaking groups wishing
to speak should elect a spokesperson to
represent the views of the group to
facilitate the meeting your comment will
be limited to three minutes for
individual speakers one additional
minute for each additional individual
present at the meeting who has
contributed their time to a
representative speaker up to 10
minutes please format your speech to be
accommodated within the applicable time
frame given for convenience in timing
presentations a light system is
installed on the podium the light will
be green for 2 minutes and yellow for
one minute please conclude your comments
when the red light appears thank you for
interest in time and now begin the
meeting with a roll call chair higs
present Vice chair young here
commissioner Gonzalez present
commissioner Kaminsky present
commissioner erto here commissioner
Joiner here commissioner Scaro here all
here thank you thank you now we go on to
General Public comment for non-agenda
items um I don't believe we have any of
those NOP okay so then we will move on
to the administrative report from Mr
Curtis good evening chair hgs members of
the Planning Commission just wanted to
bring to your attention for tonight's uh
um agenda that there was additional
information for item number five
submitted by the applicant team
regarding a potential stipulation for
discussion uh during the uh
deliberations if any regarding item
number
five also uh just want to remind you
that our next
meeting um will be November 13th that's
our next regular scheduled meeting um we
did previously um PLL the Planning
Commission about potentially having a
nove a meeting on November 6th if you
remember that um just in case we had
some business items to tend to as we get
close to the end of the year because as
you may remember our calendar for
November December we only have one
meeting um in each of those um but uh
depending on how things go tonight we
may not uh need to um have a special
meeting on November 6th in the event
that we would have a quorum of
availability so um that being said again
our next regular meeting would be
November 13th and then after that it
would be December 11th um again only one
meeting both November and December so
that's all I have for you now thank you
very good thank you Mr Curtis so now we
will move on to the approval of minutes
and we have two separate um approvals
one of them is for the executive session
meeting minutes from September
25th um I are you
Consulting no
I'm sorry chair eggs I may have missed
your question oh I was wondering if
you're Consulting and um if if uh with
commissioner Kaminsky if she needs to
just recuse herself uh you were not
present for that portion of September
25th executive session yes chair so it
looks like for the October 9th um we had
a full board member and then you're
right September 25th uh commissioner
commiss can recuse yourself from that
vote okay so let's go on the calendar
order here so the executive session
meeting minutes from September 25th um
with the exception of commissioner
Kinski um can I get uh a motion uh chair
higs I'll go ahead and make a motion to
approve the September 25th 2024
executive session meeting minutes we
have a motion from commissioner Scarboro
and I'll second and a second from
commissioner Joiner roll call vote
please chair higs yes Vice chair young
yes commissioner Gonzalez yes
commissioner ell yes commissioner Joiner
yes commissioner Scaro yes motion passes
than very good and now we move on to the
approval of regular meeting minutes from
the October 9th
meeting motion Cherry higs I'll move for
approval of the October 9th 2024 regular
meeting minutes as written great second
motion from Vice chair young and a
second from commissioner erell roll call
vote please chair higs yes Vice chair
young yes commissioner Gonzalez yes Comm
Kaminsky yes commissioner erto yes
commissioner Joiner yes commissioner
Scaro yes motion passes thank you thank
you we have a few items on the agenda
tonight under consent um there is a
request to move item number five to the
regular agenda is that still the case
commissioner
ell yes okay um commissioner Gonzalez
did you have any requests to move any
items uh no I thank you very much okay
great and and then I have uh one
question so the consent agenda items are
agendas items two three and four now
that five is being
moved we have two requests to speak on
consent agenda items number four um do
we do this presenter still with the um
let's see U Mr Frankle and John Mr
Batista still would they still like to
speak on the this consent
agenda um and
Mr Curtis do we need to have a full
presentation or can we have um speakers
still yeah Madam chair just let the
speaker speak thank you okay fantastic
so uh Mr Frankle if Mr Frankle is here
if you'd still like to
speak if you could please state your
name and address and you have three
minutes thank
you uh commissioner Tom Frankle 7340
East Maine and actually a bit of a fluke
that I saw this I'm on a case a little
later today but saw this on here and I
followed the proposed text amendment I
met the applicants at their open house
and I never want to be against anything
so I don't want people opposing me nor
will I oppose anyone's projects I talked
to Katie was she the
coordinator Katie the coordinator on
this and I guess I wasn't aware it was
it was on tonight but as long as it is
my concern is this met the applicants I
think they're going to want run a
wonderful business my concern is this is
that that I own a number of uh
properties in downtown
Scottdale and the impact of really
opening up a text amendment to allow
gyms in this District up to 3,000 square
fet the proposed use with the existing
applicants is to use it as I believe it
was a Pilates and a small use one-on-one
type of thing which is the way they
always start I owned a building at
6840 East Indian school it's right be
it's the big glass building right before
you make the turn on 68 Street on the
North side 6 7,000 foot building
perfectly parked ample street parking in
addition to my parking on the lot that I
had a gym was allowed to open a very
successful gym less than 3,000 square ft
I
believe
which was allowed to open up in that
location in pretty much destroyed all
the property owners in that
neighborhood's ability to park on the
street anywhere in addition required
policing your existing
Lots um mainly because what it ended up
is being various classes you know three
four classes at various hours of between
50 and 100 people all who travel in
their own cars so what what seems to be
on the surface of very innocent request
and in the case of this applicant may be
the reality is if a gym can open in
3,000 square ft and decide to use it as
classes uh with no uh with no
restriction on types of classes number
of classes essentially once it's in an
allowed use under the proposed
zoning
um it's a free free thrw as far as
somebody wanting to open up anywhere in
downtown Scottdale with very limit
parking and the ability to destroy an
area and what I would like I would like
to see them to be able to do their use
but maybe before it gets to council have
some type of additional restrictions by
staff that that type of a situation
could not happen and has it been
discussed if that's anticipated but the
applicant I would like to them to be
able to see them do their business just
where it doesn't ruin it for others who
might use it differently thank you thank
you for your time perfectly within three
minutes as well
uh as Mr uh John vatista is here as well
to speak on
this hello my name is John vatistas I
actually own the building directly north
of the building he said that was
destroyed and we're right across from
that gem body they're great people we
had one issue when they started about
parking we had a conversation with them
that was several years ago ago we've
never had a problem since then uh so I'm
not sure what he's referring to I think
he also had said that he sold his
building for a lot less than market
value excuse me and that's just not the
case I own compus real estate I own a
lot of real estate in downtown Scottdale
Marshall way I also own the building
that um the applicants going into and
it's a perfect fit for us because they
have people before like 5:00 in the
morning or 6:00 in the morning till 9:00
and then in the afternoon and there was
no issues with parking on Marshall way
or Third Avenue after hours and during
the day is not their their big plus
otherwise I wouldn't have had them in
the building if that was going to be an
issue because we have a med spa salon so
I just wanted to give you that
additional input any questions thank you
Mr Batista uh commissioner
Gonzalez okay um no I think I think
we're good with you thank you for taking
the time to speak um do we want to move
this to the regular agenda for a regular
for presentation and further
discussion yeah okay but commissioner
tell you'd rather move
it I'd like to know about the parking
requirements uh that would go with a gym
um
you know are
they different than they are for other
retail or how does that work
noise chair Vice chair commissioner
artell the parking requirements for a
health and fitness studio in the
downtown are 1 to 300 which is the same
as a retail year use and part of the
land use limitations for this text
Amendment um part of including it as a
permitted use is one of the land use
limitation is limiting it to 3,000
square fet that's to keep the small
scale of downtown core and also align it
with the parking ordinance because
that's the limit in the parking
ordinance in downtown for 1 to 300 and
it increases after that um if you
increase the size of the tenant space so
that's why that number was
chosen um in addition we check parking
when an applicant or site comes in to
get like a building permit or design
approval so before they would be able to
get that approval we would ensure that
the site has enough parking in this
particular scenario there's 21 spaces
required and 18 on site so they will be
required to either gain three spaces via
a remote agreement or inl so those are
some options for this particular
site but those parking uh space
requirements
are uh determined by the fact that it's
retail as opposed to a gym and it it you
wouldn't be able to re evaluate them
with each additional applicant right
when somebody else wanted to open a gym
it would always be 18 on site and and 21
total so the land uses do have different
parking
ratios um for example I think gallery
has 1 to 500 and in this particular
situation the personal care service
that's there and the gym happen to have
the same parking ratio of 1 to
300 thank
you uh Mr Curtis um commissioner
Gonzalez does have a question for the
applicant at this point should he have
the applicant uh step up or should we
move this to regular agenda um CHS I
think the applicant can step up and
answer the question certainly thanks the
applicant would you be willing to yes
please um please state your name and
address Commissioners I am Whitney
Goodwin I'm the applicant for this text
Amendment um the address of of the text
amendment is uh 7045 uh East Marshall
I'm sorry Third Avenue my goodness it's
right at the corner of thir ab and
Marshall um thank you um commissioner
Gonzales did you want to ask your
question yeah I just want to ask you a
couple questions if you don't mind so um
when you did this application what is
the occupancy of the the structure that
you're going to be uh renting or using
the occupancy is at less than 50
let me make sure on my
notes um and that's for the the size of
the building the or the size of the
space that we'll be occupying we
anticipate um a full class when we have
a class is going to be no more than 24
including um an instructor it's a very
small group class uh Fitness format and
then we would have uh one to two staff
at the lobby um because we will also
have a small retail section there
um so around you know under 30 at any
given point thank you uh when I met you
at one of your open houses that you had
uh you had mentioned that uh you you
know you were going to just have a
limited amount of full staff there all
the time so and how many staff people
are you going to have
there we will have a Studio manager
there the whole time either the studio
manager or one of the owners of the of
the studio so that will be the only
full-time person there um and then we'll
have two one to two a front desk and
someone to be able to turn the um the
equipment and sanitize it in between
classes sure so that the trainer that
would be um leading the instruction
would have time to meet with clients and
and answer any questions okay we're good
well thank you very much you're welcome
thank you for your time appreciate
it commissioner uh what is the you said
24 was the um maximum uh class size if I
understood that correctly yes I guess I
did
um what why is there that cap on it is
that your own personal uh um decision is
that something that the city limits how
does it get to be what con what makes it
a 24 person cap um we have a Unique
Fitness format where we actually have a
3X3 um mat that spaces out each
participant in the class and the studio
size that we are able to have in um the
the suite that we are looking at would
only allow for a Max of 24 mats which
would include one instructor so that's
dictated by the um the size of the
building or at least the size of the
layout size of the building
we also um it is a franchised Fitness
format so we know from other franchise
owners that that is the ideal anything
larger than that there's not enough
um sight to the instructor it's a very
specific U functional movement um
exercise with specific equipment so um
we want them to be able to have line a
sight to the instructor and that the
instructor is able to go around and help
you know know everyone that's attending
the class and you can't really achieve
that with anything more than 23 and your
building size is 3,000 square fet uh the
suite is actually 2500 2500 okay thank
you commissioner Gonzalez I I'm sorry
commissioner
Gonzalez um then um if under those
calculations and everything I remember
you saying something about parking in
the back of the property is it privately
owned yes the 18 spaces are private and
specific to that building and so the the
Weis hold owner of the property uh did
he make you dedicate out what spaces
you're going to use or how many spaces
you're going to utilize we haven't uh
dedicated any spaces more than two for
our employees um but that is something
that we can also discuss we'll need to
of course um find a way to achieve those
additional three
spaces that are required either through
in inl or some remote parking agreement
there's also 14 Street spaces
surrounding the corner of that building
um and then we also have fifth AV garage
which um is a 4minute walk from our site
and there's also several walking paths
where less than a th feet from the canal
so there's a lot of um pedestrian
traffic and since we're health and
fitness we have very active clients that
that want to come and visit our studio
very good thank you very
much okay I think we are set thank you
so much appreciate your
time uh given the volume of
conversations for on consent agenda item
number four I assume it's okay to vote
on two and three together and then four
I chair however You' like to proceed
thank you let's go ahead and do that so
if I could get a recommendation for the
approval consent agenda items number two
and three two being 11ab 2023 and three
being 1 ta
2024 CHS i' go ahead and make a motion
for recommendation for approval to city
council for cases 11ab 2023 per the
staff recommended stipulations after
finding the proposed abandonment is
consistent and conforms with the adopted
General plan and case 1 ta 2024 after
finding the proposed text Amendment are
consistent and conform with the adopted
General plan okay we have a motion from
commissioner Scarboro and a second a
second it and a second from commissioner
Gonzalez roll call vote
please chair higs yes Vice chair young
yes commissioner Gonzalez yes
commissioner Kaminsky yes commissioner
ell yes commissioner Joiner yes
commissioner Scaro yes motion passes
than thank you and now if we could get a
motion for consent agenda item number
four to TA
2024 I'll move to make a motion for
recommendation of approval to city
council for case 2 ta 2024 after finding
that the proposed text amendment is
consistent and conforms with the adopted
General plan very good a motion from
commissioner Kaminsky in a
second I'll second and a second from
Vice chair Young Roll Call vote please
chair higs yes Vice chair young yes
commissioner
Gonzalez um yes and I support this
because of the the amount the nature of
the square footage and what the intended
use is although if their intended use
goes beyond the scope of what it is I'd
like to be able to revisit this at some
other
time commissioner Kaminsky yes
commissioner tell yes commissioner
Joiner yes commissioner scar yes motion
passes thank you very good thank you
thank you for your time and thanks for
everyone that spoke as
well moving on to our regular agenda now
starting with agenda item number five
which is 2 up 2024 Sanchez coina
Cantina thank you chair hags and
Commissioners I'm Casey sunki planner
with the city Scot planning department
here for case 2up 2024 Sanchez Kina y
Cantina you can see the site location
here in Oldtown a couple of blocks north
of the San Marine apartment
complex and a little closer up at the
exactly at the intersection of Civic
Center Plaza and Stetson
Drive the zoning on the site is
commercial C3 with the downtown overlay
it also has the P3 parking credit uh
zoning
overlay and the request for the
commission is uh recommendation to city
council for adoption of resolution
number 13257 approving a conditional use
for a new bar at this
location so this slide shows some of the
project data the existing use of it is a
twostory office building which would be
converted into a bar the site size is
about 5,000 square F feet and there' be
about uh 5500 5400 rather square feet of
bar restaurant area with an additional
750 ft patio on the east side of the
building second floor balcony patio and
the required parking for all this is 40
spaces this is achieved through a
variety of uh mechanisms you have
on-site parking you have remote parking
P3 parking credits in Loop parking
credits and the bike parking
reduction and here's a look at the floor
plan on the left is the first floor you
can kind of see a bar area at the top
with seating around and then kitchen
prep area at the bottom and then the
image on the right is the second floor
where we have restrooms and more kitchen
prep at the bottom but the main indoor
outdoor kind of bar in the balcony you
can see on the right side
there and in addition to the applicants
doing their own Outreach the city did
its standard not public notification
which is uh mailing postcards with every
property owner within 750 ft of this uh
we did not receive any specific response
from people in that area just a general
letter of opposition in the very
beginning of the project from someone
who didn't want to Bar in the area but
it's not clear whether or not they
reside or work in this particular part
of
town and that concludes staff's
presentation I'm happy to answer any
questions we also have the applicant
team here with their own presentation
very do we have any questions for staff
yep Vice chair young uh thank you for
the presentation I I have a question
about the parking agreements with the
other private property owners what
happens if one of those properties sells
and the new owner decides they don't
want
to oblige that agreement because I mean
there's 18 total spaces that are uh
relied upon with other prop Property
Owners just curious if there's a
mechanism for that or if it's on a
case-by Case basis yeah uh chair Higson
and uh commissioner young good question
from the city's perspective uh these are
kind of fiveyear leases and and they
frankly are a bit difficult to track I'm
not sure if we have a a
mechanism so um chair higs and vice
chairman young um so from time to time I
mean there is a remote parking agreement
that the city's party of and so U if
there was an instance where it expires
or it gets um canceled for some reason
or there's a desire to cancel it then
there's certainly a conversation with
the
um with the operator in terms of their
uh their compliance with the zoning code
not much different than any other zoning
code violation um there would be um
discussion and remedy through the code
enforcement um and typically they uh
find alternative parking locations with
this particular proposal these are um
going to be evening use um parking
credits which is is a whole lot from a
practical standpoint easier to obtain um
from uh other property owners within the
area okay I was just curious because I
didn't know if there was a mechanism is
I mean is the city privy to these
agreements or is it just on a owner to
owner type of an agreement uh chair H
and V young because it's it's um an
agreement to satisfy the zoning code we
are a party to the agreement okay thank
you commissioner
Kaminsky followup question to that are
those recorded agreements that run with
the land if they train transfer
ownership so yes those are recorded
thank
you okay thank you we could um a
presentation from the
applicant while we wait for the
presentation to come up I'll just I'll
get into the formalities Lauren proper
Potter for the record PO Box 1833 temp
Arizona
85280 I did prepare a pretty detailed
presentation uh Casey kind of made fun
of me about it earlier he's touched on I
think some of the main um substantive
portions of my presentation so I'm happy
to run through all the compliance
components with the conditional use
permit standards but I think for all
practical purposes um we could probably
narrow the the focus of this to just the
proposed
stipulation however I just want to make
it clear I'm happy to at any time go
back over um any portion of my very long
presentation but I'm going to get to the
the part here um I do want to thank
commissioner artell for making some time
earlier today to discuss this with me so
miss proper pot I'm sorry to interrupt
um I I was wondering if you we could
step a little closer to the mic and
lower it to our vertical I I understand
I get it I hear what you're saying okay
sorry about that I feel really tall when
I you are beautifully tall but we just
want to make sure we can hear you I
apologize for that do you want me to
State my name and address for the record
again I do we think we got that
okay okay be helpful Lauren proper
Potter PO Box 1833 TP Arizona 85280 so
we're going to just discuss um for now
this additional stipulation that we're
proposing however I'm happy to go back
and go through my more detailed
presentation um and I did want to thank
commissioner artell for taking the time
today to speak with me about a concern
he had regarding some noise mitigation
because we are across the street from a
multif family development um and so as a
result we have proposed a stipulation um
that you should all have on the dis
before you today but I'll read it into
the record development shall provide
Planters at a height of 38 in along the
northern portion of the patio facing
ston Drive to mitigate noise on the
nearby residential development um and
our architect was kind enough to prepare
an exhibit on short notice here um that
would demonstrate what that looks like
so you can see here it provides a a
pretty good solid buffer we're proposing
that it would be a brick-like material
to match some of the rest of the
building I'm happy to answer some
questions about this I can go into some
of the details about the project we're
really excited about it so um by all
means the commission wants to hear more
of the details we can do that but to the
extent you want to keep the focus
narrowed here I'm happy to just stop and
let you ask some questions commissioner
ell um does this uh
stipulation suffice and explain enough
to give you the information you're
looking for well it gives me the
information but um you know the issue is
uh I believe it's camon Apartments to
the
North
and the
you're I would like to see a
um a
wall uh not necessarily a concrete wall
wouldn't have to be a glass block wall I
believe that uh Mr Carr has said that
you know plexiglass would look would
work um it
would not necessarily absorb the sound
but it would Channel The Sound away to
the to the east as opposed to the
north um 38 in is is nice but I think
when two weeks ago we heard that plants
really don't do anything to absorb sound
I'm looking down at commissioner
Gonzales I think he knows about such
things maybe he doesn't forget that okay
um but I think that's what we get heard
you know the plexiglass would work um
does it detract from the appearance
put in taller plants
um that's what I that's that's my
thought I would like to see
a some sort of blockade for the
sound thank you commissioner tell I
appreciate the feedback um and I did
just want to take a second to provide
some additional context because I'm not
going to bore you with my presentation
but um I did want to kind of provide
some information about what Sanchez is
and what Sanchez isn't and it is
primarily a restaurant so it's proposed
suppos to be open from 10:00 a.m. to 2:
a.m. so it's going to have restaurant
lunch hours it's going to function as a
restaurant for most of the day until it
transitions into those evening hours
where just the nature of the area the
use tends to skew a little bit more
liquid and a little bit away from solid
food if you will um but I the this isn't
intended to be a nightclub a bar and the
patio space really is limited here so
Casey mentioned it's 750 square fet it's
actually only 660 ft of occupiable space
because we already had little Planters
kind of space throughout and there's
only 14 bar stool seats accommodated
everything else is bench or table
seating or Booth seating I guess is a
better way to say that so those are
already going to be lower than um you
know where a bar stol is where voices
project and there's only 44 occupiable
seats in that area so that's the max
occupancy there um so I I totally hear
your concerns we haven't had any
opposition um except for kind of the
general one that Casey mentioned we do
have support from the next door neighbor
and a nearby property owner um I did
have an opportunity to speak with
someone at Camden she didn't express any
concerns there was really no followup so
I think given the narrow scope of the
patio adjacent to the multif family
residential I think what we've proposed
is reasonable um reasonable Minds can
differ of course but um I don't think
it's necessarily the type of intensity
that would warrant something that tall
we also do have some structural concerns
and you've mentioned plexiglass which is
to your point not very heavy um we we
don't think it's incredibly
aesthetically pleasing um and we can
only go so tall here because we don't
have a covered uh roof and we don't have
any supporting structure beneath so
we're we do want to propose something
that will provide some noise mitigation
um and you know what what we'd like to
do is 38 in it gives the plants 4 to 6
in to grow so you're looking at 42 44
Ines or so of cover um I think we all
just realized I'm really short so for
some people that might be sufficient um
and I think the fact that most of the
seating here is actually going to be
seated and not in bar stools there are
adequate um noise mitigation measures
already in place and especially enhanced
with um with this revision which is
inspired by you although maybe not
entirely what you desire but I I think
it's a good
compromise okay uh would anyone like to
hear any or have any other questions for
the applicant commissioner
Gonzalez so what are the noise
mitigation effects that you're trying to
uh put in
place thank you commissioner Gonzalez
excellent question so we do have on the
other side of the um on the other side
of this p Pao it is adjacent to the
alley there's some solid wood planking
there so that's going to provide some
noise mitigation we to be clear we don't
expect it to be really loud um and so we
don't think that it requires anything
really dramatic but any exterior
speakers they'll be required to be
oriented inwards they will not project
outwards they will be um facing down so
that they will not project noise out
again from a different direction and the
buildings themselves are existing so
this is really a tenant Improvement
project here and the existing buildings
are really thick block walls most of the
use like 4,000 square ft of it is all
happening on the inside of these two
buildings we have a building to the
south side of us so that's another block
wall right there that's going to control
noise and then everything else these
buildings are kind of wrapped around
where people are inside of the
restaurant bar area so just kind of the
way that the space itself has been
organized is intended to prevent um
noise from
carrying um how many people or what's
the occupancy for that
level commissioner Gonzalez I wrote this
down I anticipated this question so the
entire restaurant is
244 this bar area this patio area is 44
occupants and then um what is it did you
say there's bar stools up against the
the Planters there are there 10 you know
I think it's probably a good idea if I
show you a floor plan here that would be
more helpful so um this image here the
area that's in blue is the exterior
patio there the entire kind of I guess
the right side of this that's the
Eastern side that's all um alley space
right there so it's really we're just
talking about this area the northern
portion there and there's 10 stools
right there I outlined them in Orange
although I think they look yellow for
you and then
um because of that did you say what what
is the music generated it's not live
music it's going to be DJs or is it
radio or satellite or would it how is it
generating the the noise great question
so there there is no live music proposed
here no DJs it's going to be recorded
music so it might be satellite it might
be radio whatever people are using um
it's intended to be recorded music
played through speakers totally
controllable by
management thank you thank you
okay commissioner kisy
the bar stools that are facing north are
those facing into the windows of Camden
or what is the alignment with the other
side of the street thanks for the
question commissioner Kaminsky so the
other side of the street um it does have
some residences from Camden although I
wouldn't say that they're oriented into
the windows necessarily most of the um
adjacent balconies from Camden are
actually a little bit further down the
street this is kind of the corner of
that development where there's um it's
on top of a lot of their
commercial space so there I don't think
there's balconies right out in front of
where we
are thank
you okay yes commissioner
Joiner thank you um this is a sec this
is more to staff I guess this is a
second meeting in a row that we've had
where we end up spending a lot of time
about noise so I just want to restate
again that I'm really looking forward to
the noise uh project that we're going to
have soon after we get done with the
housing issues because I think that'll
help both the applicants it'll help us
and I think it'll help the community so
I just wanted to make another request
for that to come forward soon thank you
thank you okay if there any other
comments or questions um
would okay commissioner Gonzalez has a
comment I guess maybe the comment is is
I like the project the project is is
nice project you've done a lot of work
to it it's a nice Remodel and everything
like that although I do have concerns
with the height of the the sound the the
wall that faces outward towards the
street
level I know the intentions are real
positive about it but the thing is is
that we've had many things come up in
front of us for different bars and
aspects of this general area and the
noise level keeps even if even if the
single applicant always says that we're
going to have a real low noise level the
goodby noise level of the streets and
bouncing off the walls and everything
it's the volume keeps ratcheting up so
therefore I'm not going to support this
project only because of the height of
the the wall I think that we could produ
do a better job on mitigating the noise
level if we can Elevate that a little
bit but that's up to the other
Commissioners thank you thank you
commissioner Gonzalez and for the record
if if there's a a number that does make
you happier I think we'd be open to
entertaining it thank you without that
would anyone like to make a
motion well pardon me first I'd say you
know this does add additional
entertainment capacity and it you know
it may Rob from
other um diners and or you know
restaurants and bars or it may attract
more people uh at additional capacity
you know economically speaking it seems
like it's a good thing uh more sales tax
more property tax uh amenities um yeah
it's another restaurant SL bar you know
you're okay it's not a restaurant it's a
restaurant most of the time but it's a
bar some of the time uh so it's a
combination of two and it is in the
Entertainment District so it's in the
right place um Aesthetics the only my
only issue is the
noise um it is across from the
apartments um
at the same time it is in the
Entertainment District so what do you
expect um
so okay I can live with that
um am I on the right one make a motion
for recommendation of approval to city
council for case 2 up 2024 per the staff
I'm tell me if I'm not on the right one
I think I am okay per the staff
recommended stipulations after finding
that the conditional use permit criteria
have been met
uh with with with the uh added
stipulation that the development shall
provide planners at a height of 38 in
along the northern portion of the patio
facing STS and drive to mitigate noise
on the nearby residential development
very good very good you Bill Bill's
always there to keep us in check we have
a motion from commissioner tell and a
second I'll second second from Vice
chair Young Roll Call vote please chair
higs yes Vice chair young yes
commissioner Gonzalez no commissioner
Kaminsky yes commissioner to yes
commissioner Joiner yes commissioner
Scaro yes motion passes thank thank very
good thank
you now we will move on to regular
agenda item number six 3zn 2024 the
Clayton on Earl
good evening chair hags uh Vice chair
young members of the Planning Commission
I'm Jeff Barnes with the city's planning
department presenting 3zn
2024 this site uh is located at the
northwest corner of Earl drive and Civic
Center Plaza in the highlighted uh
yellow on the screen
here a little bit closer view in uh this
is an existing developed site um it's
made up of five Parcels uh right now
with various buildings on them as you
see there in the photo uh to the uh the
west and the east of this site are both
uh residential condominium uh uses uh to
the North and the South are office uses
the request before you uh tonight is a
recommendation to city council uh
regarding a zoning District map
Amendment uh from the existing Highway
commercial downtown overlay C3 Doo to
the downtown multiple use type 2
downtown overlay ddmu 2 Doo zoning on
this uh
2.93 gross Acre
Site uh this just shows the existing uh
C 3D ozoning out there
today uh going to the the downtown
multiple use type two um notably uh
adjacent to this to the West uh the
Inspire Condominiums uh went through uh
a rezoning several years back to
downtown office residential type two
which is an older uh designation in the
downtown that is equivalent to the dmu2
that is being requested uh today so they
they went through uh similarly this
request right next
door uh this site is located in the
Southeast Corner uh of the uh the
downtown overlay and the the the Oldtown
character plan as you can see uh tucked
down there at the very bottom of the map
uh so the downtown uh overlay boundary
runs right along uh the edges of this
project at Civic Center Plaza and Earl
Drive uh this request is uh in
conformance with the old town plan uh in
terms of the land use designation for
this area of downtown multiple use and
the development type uh designation for
this area of type
two as I mentioned uh currently um there
are commercial and office uh uses on uh
on the site uh the proposed development
project is a mixed use development uh
with ground floor uh office and parking
uh use with uh uh 89 uh residential
units above in a total of four stories
uh to that uh proposed building um the
uh downtown district requested will
allow a building height up to 66 ft
although the applicant's proposal comes
in at 56 in in the um in the project uh
that's
proposed a quick comparison just some
highlights for you between the two uh
the existing zoning district and the
proposed downtown zoning um currently
under the C3 Doo 36 feet is the maximum
allowable Building height um the
downtown uh type two that is requested
allows 66 ft uh of Building height um
the downtown overlay currently uh with
the C3 um allows for 23 dwelling units
per acre the downtown district requested
will allow uh up to 50 uh dwelling units
per acre um jumping back one slide real
quick to the bottom of my list here uh
the 89 units they're requesting is not
50 dwelling units per acre it's actually
30.4 and then uh just uh rounding out
that comparison um the uh gross floor
area uh parameter for both uh conditions
is the same under the existing and
proposed
zoning uh showing you the site plan here
that they uh provided with the
application I mentioned the ground floor
uh office along the uh the street
frontages uh this also includes uh an a
parking garage uh tucked inside that and
then surface parking around the outside
um as this is five par Parcels today um
there are several uh curb cuts and
driveways uh accessing the cumulative
total of this site um this proposes to
condense those down to just two one off
of each Frontage at the uh furthest
points away from the intersection uh as
shown on the graphic here um maybe more
noticeable on the landscape plan um they
are proposing treelined uh sidewalks
along the stre Street frontages to
create shaded sidewalk conditions out
there um there is an a tucked in uh pool
and amenity space um that will have a um
a barrier between it and the outside um
access uh but on the other side the
Civic Center Plaza Frontage there is uh
what is essentially a little pocket park
type of uh design tucked in there uh
it's a retention area for the site that
they are
um serving as that uh landscaped space
uh as it stands it's it's not proposed
to be uh blocked off from uh the public
uh so although it's on private property
it uh it wouldn't be uh barricaded away
or
anything uh the building elevations that
have come along with this application as
I mentioned a four-story uh building
Proposal with the uh ground level Office
Space
uh along the street frontages there um
this also provides a three-story massing
along both Street frontages stepping
back uh to uh the fourth story that is
in line with the location of this at the
downtown overlay boundary uh following
the the stepb back requirements of the
district um this probably shows up a
little bit faint uh for you on the
screen but um they did provide analysis
uh as we typically get demonstrating uh
that they are meeting uh those uh step
back uh requirements as the building
increases in height and steps
backwards uh rendering uh here of the
building uh again kind of showing that
articulation showing that that uh
massing and step back
um also in context here with uh some of
the surrounding area um what I wanted to
take away from uh from this plan which
has some zoomed out stuff for you is a
zoom in to the the lower corner image
which is looking back at this project
from the intersection um providing uh
some visual context for uh I mentioned
that Inspire condo project immediately
to the West U which also is a four story
um project uh three-story massing along
the street stepping back at that
downtown boundary
uh and so this kind of gives a good
visual of the consistency of that along
um along the street Frontage there um
also visible in this rendering are some
of the other uh equally sized buildings
in the surrounding area um you can see
out to the ones along Scottdale Road and
up uh towards Osborne um that are also
four and even five stories in height
just to give you some additional context
of what's out there uh in the
surrounding vicinity of this
request um and then putting that on a
map real quick just to to round out that
thought um the green stars that are
shown on there are existing building
locations the ones I was making
reference to in that uh rendering that
are um of similar height uh currently um
the blue stars are entitled uh sites
that would be um in that uh that same
relative height they have not currently
been
constructed uh so uh closing staff's
presentation with just the uh request
that is before you tonight uh
recommendation uh to council for this
zoning District uh map Amendment um
happy to answer any questions the
applicant is is here has a presentation
um if you'd like to hear from them as
well Cherry hi thank thank you Mr Burns
yes a question from commissioner Joiner
yeah um I think I missed it are these
going to be condos for sale or are they
Apartments um chair higs commissioner
Joiner I will uh let the applicant uh
answer that with more certainty uh so
that I'm not telling you the wrong thing
thank
you I guess that's it for questions for
staff at this point thank you uh do we
have the applicant here uh able to
present commissioner higs or chairman
higs and Commissioners Tom Frankle 7340
East Main glad to be here tonight and
I'm going to give a very short overview
and then hand it over to my architect
who was designed the
project um I have been a resident in
developing in Scotts still for 39 years
uh currently own over
70 uh various developments within three
four miles of this property so our
company's mission is to build something
quality redevelop it lease it up and
keep it forever and we've pretty much
kept that throughout our 40 years of
existence uh what that allows us to do
is develop and not have to think about
cheap cheapening a project or
functionally minimizing a project but we
develop something that we feel we can
keep list least something that separates
us from hopefully the other product that
isn't always designed as generational
Investments which ours are and uh allows
us
to bring to the city of Scottdale
worthwhile Investments for us and things
that we think are in addition to the
community
we've been doing that for a long time uh
most recently we finished the shopping
center which we're very proud of on
Hayden and Osborne where the Elanor and
uh Oliver is a modern American it's a
mid-century Center I don't think it had
to go through a Planning Commission it
did go through Dr and we're real proud
of
it
um as far as other products similar we
have developed two apartment complexes
one 77 on the many in phoen or a few in
Phoenix
but two additional ones in Scottsdale
very similar size 77 on the park which
was developed over 10 years ago
developed by our or designed by our same
architect we developed it ground up have
managed and leased it for the last 10
years and most
recently uh 75th and second Apartments
located ac across from Clayton house
right by Giant Stadium commissioner M uh
Kaminsky I know you care quite about uh
about detail with architect and details
and I would encourage you if you ever
get a chance if you've been down that
street uh we own both sides of the
street and that walk is probably I think
with the landscape and the experience
one of the nicest walks in downtown
Scottdale of a commercial buildings on
both
sides uh both have been additions we've
uh kept because we keep them we try to
keep tenants we've kept an awful lot of
our original tenants in the 10e history
we've had them there have been no
complaint police uh complaints on either
of our complexes from neighboring
businesses and uh most of our tenants
have been there for a long long time
which is what we
seek um Apartments just generally and
Scottdale and I heard one of the
Commissioners uh inquire is it
apartments are Conor is is a bit of a uh
frowned upon or looked upon and
unfortunately I've got lumped into the
category I build a very Boutique thing
usually 25 to 100 units which we keep
I've got lumped into 4 500 unit
complexes and they've there's supposedly
a huge over Supply there's never been an
over Supply with us we've been full the
whole time uh the complaints which you
hear or are talked about how Apartments
ruin a community
uh and all the negatives I don't
experience that I think if any of the
Commissioners were to live in one of the
floors of any of those units you would
be very comfortable with your neighbors
and the experience
so
unfortunately it's not a popular thing
necessarily right now but it has not
been our experience at least the
existing site consists of four older
buildings um which I've owned a few of
them for over 20 years years um they've
run their course they're over 50% vacant
and U at some point assembled these
Through The Years with the idea that I
would do something like this which is
why it's coming to you today the
important things I think I'd like you to
keep in
mind
uh you have a local owner with a track
record not somebody looking to develop
and flip it I've lived the talk or I've
I've walked the walk and lived it so
it's it's not somebody telling you what
they're going to do um we've asked for
no amended development standards they
all fit under the zoning we're asking
for there's no bonus
anything it is mixed use we have 6,000
foot of
commercial uh there it's most likely it
would be some type of medical we're
about two blocks away from the
hospital I did the project Family
Promise which you are which I didn't
mention earlier which is about a block
and a half to the east I redid the
building and we worked out a sale where
they're able to run their homeless
program out of there that was about 2
years
ago the scale of project is similar to
the project to the West Inspire uh
different architecture but similar in
scale and
size um as far as meeting with neighbors
we had two neighborhood meetings first
one I guess there was a council meeting
uh and we decided to rehab it or staff
suggested that we rehab the meeting we
had uh a couple of people from the the
Inspire uh condos one person from
Inspire and a couple from the people to
the east no major opposition but as a
result of that meeting and I could say
it was completely because of the
neighbors but it wasn't economically it
didn't make sense to put a ground of or
a level of underground parking so we
lowered since the meeting we lowered the
since the first meeting we lowered a
level so originally it was at 66 ft I
think it's at 54 ft now 54 55
ft uh we're going to bury the power
lines underground which he'll go over
with you it's heavily
landscaped uh the product we build
bigger bedrooms there's a half an extra
half bath in every unit very unusual for
for uh Apartments Main Bean is it
separates us from the
competition uh large balconies and I
think think the per the the uh
personal request to you would be for the
apartment projects that do come before
you this is a wonderful opportunity to
support someone who's been doing it for
a long time who cares what he does who
is local and
uh I'm excited to move it along and I
guess I would just like the opportunity
I saw one of the gentlemen here that
might comment on after the public
comment address his concerns and
Christian maybe you can just give a
short presentation uh thank you Mr frle
I was I was curious if you had
additional slides on there you wanted to
show or if it was just that opening
slide how do I oh excuse me good evening
everyone uh my name is Christian sigon
uh with k&i homes 6521 uh North Fourth
Street in Phoenix and I'm the architect
uh on the
project um I've been working with Tom
now
for about 15 years
um doing all of his Apartments um all
over town and uh he's my favorite
clients um he appreciates quality he
appreciates good design um he likes low
and no
maintenance um and he likes to uh create
uh more of a boutique environment for
his projects where his tenants uh feel
at home and they stay there for a long
time and we we still have tenants that
signed up 10 years ago at 770 Park and
we have uh tenants that sign up for
multiple year uh leases so um Jeff did a
great job on explaining the project and
so did Tom and took up most of my time
so I'll keep this uh quick how do I
scroll this
uh thing right here okay so uh you've
seen this before um just the context
overall context of what's existing uh
there currently so I'll go through that
quickly um street view uh from Earl
driving east um seeing the existing
building and the uh Inspire on oural
condos just to the east of us so all
these power lines that you see there and
power poles will all be coming
down um here's a drive in the other
direction driving South on Civic Center
Plaza similar picture old one story
buildings lots of power poles lots of
power
lines and the uh current Corner view
which you got a peak of the U uh
proposed earlier from
Jeff um this is aerial overlay of our
side plan on top of the existing context
just to show how the footprint fits in
with the existing context um we
are no you know in in terms of the
overall footprint on the site and and
the shape of the building and and that
kind of anything again very similarly in
line with the uh um Inspire um condos to
the east of
us um this is just a quick recap on the
sort of the ground floor uses and the
strategy we we took there the parking
garage takes up much much most of the
space but we've screened that from
street view on both sides with the
commercial uses and the activity areas
and green open spaces so really from the
garage uh from the street view you don't
see a garage um at all you have a green
Park you've got a swimming pool you've
got commercial uses and so you see the
commercial uses kind of get the
prominent uh spots along the street
Frontage on the corners and then in the
middle you have the open space areas uh
the green being are sort of front open
space open to the street open to the
public uh the blue being our amenity
area which is visually open to the
street uh just separated by a storefront
basically a see-through window so it's
interactive visually just we have to
keep it
protected um for secured reasons and
code pool code reasons and that type of
stuff and then the other uh areas are
the residential support function so very
minimal um residential functions at
ground level basically stairs and
elevators mail um leasing office that
type of stuff uh we have uh three
elevators in the project which for any
other developer I would only have one uh
but this is Tom and he doesn't want his
tenants to have to walk too far to get
to their units uh we have a dedicated
you know uh move in elevator and access
uh all tucked around the
back um this is just a quick quick recap
on the sort of context of the heights
Jeff kind of touched on this but showing
the context that is one story two story
three story and four story uh as you see
we are four story uh just like the
complex uh to the east of us we
transition to three story along both uh
Street frontages which is consistent
with the project to the east of
us um you kind of got a quick view of
this earlier so this is from the um
Southeast Corner uh of the project
looking at the sort of the back drive
and along uh Civic Center Plaza you can
see the recess there the steps in the
building from three to 3 to four stories
as a step back uh from the other
perspective uh from Earl looking
um Southeast
Northeast um you can again see how the
building comes in the uh amenity areas
the uh Street
Frontage uh we're putting in a new 8ft
sidewalk and like Tom said that uh
undergrounding all the power lines that
are there putting in new street lights
and providing a very nice uh we got like
700 linear feet of Frontage about 350 on
either street so we're making a really
nice corner at the corner of the
downtown downtown
boundary um and then this is kind of the
corner view if you recall the earlier
Google version of the existing condition
um it's it's night and day but it also
gives you a context of what's around us
and how we fit in quite appropriately
so um are you I'm going to leave it at
there okay I just want to yeah I would
wanted to do a time check uh we don't
have the time counter anymore I believe
it's over the 10 minutes so I just
wanted to check in it's perfect I'm done
okay very good do we have any questions
for the applicant at this time we do
have a request to
speak a question commission commissioner
tell I in reading through the uh the
write up I it may have I forget where I
came across it I don't think it was in
your part but I believe I read someplace
that um this was
originally um designed
for over a hundred units correct and
then it got cut down to 89 correct so we
started when we submitted for preap we
had a five-story building with
underground parking um and 12 24 units
that's what we submitted for prea which
still fit within the uh requested soning
we weren't asking for anything with that
either uh we had our neighborhood
meeting we had some opposition to the
building height uh and the density and
after finding out
how uh crazy expensive it is to put
parking
ongr uh we decided to eliminate the
underground parking and chop the floor
off the building and so now we're four
stories uh um and 56 ft instead of five
storage okay 66 ft went from 124 units
down to 89 units so we're sign
significantly less than what we proposed
and we're almost half of what's allowed
in terms of density we're at 30 dwelling
units an acre with 50 allowed right okay
thank you okay uh thank you this time um
if Mr Nathan Wade is here if you'd like
to speak if you could please state your
name and address and you have three
minutes thank you I'm Nathan Wade I'm at
7300 East Earl in the Inspire
Condominiums and I'm here to oppose this
project on a few different levels one is
because uh we should value private home
ownership in this area as we saw in the
presentation there's a lot of
condominiums in this area we have
something going in this but this so we
think that if there had to be people
living in this in this spot that they
should be Condominiums they should be
homeowners and owning small homes is the
way that we think that we get more
homeowners in this
area architecturally there's not much to
this and there's a lot of these around
if you look at the The Carter it's this
building except it's dark gray or the
Tom Scott it's this building except it's
light gray it looks like this one we're
Ching are we going to go with the
mustard color for this
one the fact is that we're really
leaning into this same architectural
style 20 years from now people are going
to say they must have loved buildings
that looked like that and the fact is we
don't we should demand
more there's a
couple uh specific problems with this
proposal that we should look at one is
that it exacerbates an existing Hazard
between the uh two parking lots uh
between 73
7330 is a very small area that is where
the UPS drivers
Park um this creates a you know you
can't really see around them and so what
we would like to see is some sort of a
something to prevent this from happening
it's already pretty dangerous having two
by we have 94 people at Inspire 94
condos at Inspire we're going to have 80
some next door that's a large increase
in the in the traffic that's going to be
going through there
there's also the question of the T
intersection where people come out of
the out of the parking garage that their
lights are going to be park or looking
at somebody's uh at somebody's patio
right they they they're coming out
facing West toward Inspire so I asked
about this they seem to think it's no
big deal but maybe it's bigger deal for
those of us who live there there's also
the uh uh questions about the uh uh the
balcony to balcony contact I see which
is that we com out of our balconies now
and we will see somebody like right out
there so I think what our preference
would be that we take care of these
hazards but let's go back to that 36 uh
foot uh roof line that's what we bought
our condos thinking that there would be
I don't see anything really in it for us
the homeowners to have these guys
opening Apartments next door so let's
let's deny their request let's make it
36 ft so thank you very much I
appreciate your time tonight thank you
for your time the applicant like to
respond thank you thank you Nathan um
not surprised in your comments we've had
this conversation um several times
already so nothing new here we haven't
discussed we simply differ in opinion um
you wouldn't live in your project unless
it had been rezoned to the same
particular zoning that we are asking for
your your condo project wouldn't exist
and by the way the way Tom buils
apartments and we design them they are
nicer than most condo condo projects and
I'm not going to put his down but we
could do a comparison and and you would
see so um that's not an issue uh condos
worth versus apartment that's been a
discussion forever um and uh some people
don't like Apartments versus condos
reality is nobody can afford to buy any
anything right now they need to rent
they have to rent and we have a shortage
of um rental housing um with the cost of
um buying a home and interest rates and
everything else today his comment about
traffic uh parking is simply
incorrect um for our parking study um we
will actually produce uh less vehicle
trips per day than if the center was
fully occupied and in operation
certainly it's more than what it is
today because it is half empty um but
we're about half the daily trips of what
is there currently if it was in full
operation as a business so and the UPS
trucks they'll go somewhere else uh but
we have a dedicated loading space for
our project for our deliveries um
dedicated access and parking for that
purpose specifically so uh for them as
far as serving us uh will not be an
issue for The Neighbors
uh quick question for you was there any
sort of um maybe I missed a parking
parking um transportation study with
that being at that height at that corner
um do you have any sort
of review of safety um in terms of
Transportation in that area well we're
we're actually um producing less
vehicular trips than what the current uh
zoning and the current building capacity
uh would produce if it was fully
occupied um so there wasn't U any need
to change anything or provide any
additional um yeah I guess I'm thinking
in terms of like impeding views uh
visibility at that corner um if there's
if there are any studies done that would
say no it's great because just because
of the height it's much higher than it
the previous land use but that wouldn't
have any impact on um traffic person no
I'm not asking about traffic ask about
safety of vehicles and pedestrians at
that
corner um I don't see how that would
change at all okay from where it is now
okay it's actually better for
pedestrians because we're widening the
sidewalk yes taking out a 5 foot
sidewalk and making an 8ot sidewalk yes
we're adding additional street parking
uh for the public we're providing a
shaded sidewalk for the public to walk
on um so I would say that R be improving
the safety of pedestrian at least okay
commissioner Kaminsky yes I had some
comments and questions with regard to
the the driveway configuration I think
it does actually make things better for
pedestrians and and um bicyclists and
you've got on street parking which will
slow cars down and you're focusing the
exiting and Ingress to the site at two
points on one on each side
um the balcony alignment I'm wondering
if you could show the site plan to the
on the west side I was curious about the
comment made regarding regarding
balconies and also whether there was a
site wall on the west side that might
indicate the screen the headlights
coming out of the garage yeah there's an
existing 8ot site wall um okay between
the properties that they actually put in
so um screening of of lights not an
issue okay um we're putting parking
canopies up against that but you don't
even see those from ground level um and
the way uh this works there's you know
it's probably the largest distance right
right there as far as balconies uh being
a part uh you got probably over 100 ft
between the two balconies you know
running East West I don't really see any
balconies there on the corner back
corner of that um so and you have four
levels and the condo project is three
excuse me that you have four levels like
you have three levels of units above the
first floor correct and there's how many
levels on the condos to the West same
same okay and is there any room for
trees at the property line on the West
Side by those shade canopies uh there's
some growth there but not really trees
no
okay thank you I did have um one more
question and with regard to the quality
of the design that you've indicated is
very high and you're planning on keeping
the project is the quality of the design
such that they'd be constructed as condo
ready in the event that in the future
you wished to to condominium IE them
there's really no difference we wouldn't
do anything different if this was
condominium other than spend the money
on a plat so it's the same level of
quality okay um as you know lot there's
higher level of quality condominium
certainly but at a much higher price
range so but uh are are certainly uh
above the level of the condos to the
east of us and all around us and are the
solar panels uh aspirated
or um no Tom loves solar panels and we
fully intend to put as much of those on
the roof that we can possibly fit um
there's a requirement now in the uh new
codes uh for some solar panels it's
pretty minimal and and kind of worthless
so we just decided to go all out on this
and uh the amount of uh panels we can
fit on that roof should basically handle
all the commercial and common areas of
the building um
as a as a net zero energy
consumption commissioner
Scarboro thank you chair higs uh Mr
zigon thank you for responding to uh the
The public's comments today that was
very helpful and I mean you actually hit
it right in order except for the
balconies at the end pretty good uh I
know this is going to go through design
review and you'll have those hurdles to
jump in terms of the Aesthetics I'm just
curious if you could speak more about
that internal space uh that's above the
parking garage uh I all the perspectives
seem to hit corners and and never really
looking in on that that communal space
that you have within the development if
you could speak to what appears to be
whatever whatever is over the parking
garage or the the
parking that's probably still the best
view um so basically if you when you see
kind of the u- shape of the building so
within that U shape at ground level we
have the swimming pool uh area which is
a fairly substantial area takes about 50
or 60 ft back from you know the
streetcape coming back to the parking
garage and then in the middle between
the building we have basically uh uh uh
an a men area where we're going to have
our gym and our uh Club room and some
barbecues and that type of stuff typical
for any any complex but that will be
elevated up on above the parking garage
Overlook in the street and that'll be a
single story structure within or on top
of that parking yeah we have a single
story structure kind of in the middle
which is the gym and the um Club room
okay and along the east side of the
project there's a substantial Green
Space there as well can you talk about
that
um that's basically um it's our
retention area um per se uh that we have
to that we need to provide versus taking
stuff underground you always try to do
that if we can um and so rather than
just having it be a retention area we're
turning it into like a little pocket
park um in terms of dressing it up with
uh vegetation and seat walls perimeter
seat walls and benches and those type of
things and big shade trees so ideal for
anybody that lives there you know take
their dog for a walk and do their things
is it accessible to the public or just
the residents um it is accessible we're
not going to close it off we put a fence
on it we're not going to make an
easement out of it either but it is
accessible but if somebody's not
behaving we have the right to you know
kick them out okay and then I assume the
power lines that you you've suggested
are going to be undergrounded that would
go across the streets correct correct
across the intersection to the nearest
pole on the other side of the
intersection perfect it's all the
questions I have I I I think this is a a
good project for an area that has uh
medical use in the area
and it seems to fit within the adjacent
uses so thank you
thanks commissioner
ell I appreciated uh Mr Wade I believe
his name is for for commenting on the
design and I thought I was the only
person in Scottdale that wasn't thrilled
with that type of design which is not
unique to you I mean it's common but I'm
just curious since it was brought up
what uh what drives the selection of the
uh of the design is it economics is it
uh well I mean I kind of have my style
at this point so this is you know in my
style of architecture which is
influenced largely by mid-century
architecture and the international style
trying to bring that and incorporate
that into what I call a a classic uh
modernism versus you know modern it's a
classic modern that it's still going to
look good 10 20 30 years from now and
not something that you know
Fades um in that respect so it's just a
a thing for me that has evolved over
time and so you can start okay start
telling my buildings you know out there
like yeah I knew who designed that kind
I wasn't being critical I mean like I
said it's most seem to like it but yeah
okay all right I was just curious thank
you very
much anything else oh yeah uh to the
staff does this have to go to drb
yes okay thank
you
okay everybody's pointing commissioner
Gonzales did you have
something thank you and then I guess you
said the density is 50 per square per
acre uh the allowed density in the in
the requested zoning is 50 um and we are
proposing
30.4 very good thank you Vice chair
young thanks chair hegs um while I
realized this is going to go to
Dr what I'm seeing today I think really
looks good um I'm I'm I think this is a
great location for this use um to speak
to a little bit about Mr frankl's past
projects I will say that I've lived in
South Scottdale for most of my my life
and I think the unique part about the
projects that you do is I think you make
the areas you do these projects in
better um you know the the
Clayton my own kids have had school
dances there and it's an amazing place
it really is that was the first time I
saw the apartment project across the
street and I thought wow that's a really
cool mid-century modern project and it
looks like it's been there for a while
it actually enhances the street and
you're absolutely right that is a really
nice
streetcape um one of the most unique
projects I think you did is when you
moved the Dairy Queen Building on Hayden
Road when I actually had an ice cream
and the original location of that
building on McDow so you know I I think
those types of touches that you put on
your projects are really unique um as a
a resident of Scottdale I appreciate it
you know there's so many times that we
get new projects that come in that you
know for lack of a better word you know
I think it's been kind of raised here
it's a stuckle box and it's kind of same
same same and I think that there's a
certain kind of Secret Sauce that you've
got that you put in your projects and
and I just want to tell you that I
appreciate the effort I hope that this
moves forward and this has the same
amount of detail um again this has to go
to drb we we don't know exactly what the
end product is going to be but it's be
in substantial conformance with what
we're seeing today so I just wanted to
to say those things um I appreciate you
know all the time effort and a lot of
money that goes into developing these
things and I think it's helping with
placemaking and I think that uh we need
to see more of that uh in the city
particularly in the this this you know
the downtown area where you know it is
sensitive there's a lot of emotions and
feelings about trying to maintain that
character so I think uh I think what
you've done here with this style and you
know with this I would call it sort of
mid-century modern I I didn't see all
the little nuances and details to it but
I think it's got some good qualities to
it and um I hope to to see this move
forward so thank you thank you
I commissioner
ell I was just going to say that U okay
it's just Mr Wade and Me Against the
World I guess no it's not I agree um I
do wonder about midcentury modern
midcentury which century last century
how can that be modern but but never
mind it's a very defied term in AR
architecture okay okay I'm just a
felican that's all uh um it's not my
style but okay it seems to fit Scottdale
and it's certainly approved by the uh by
the
authorities um amenities
um you when I when I thought that it was
a you cut the number of units down by
25% I thought that's too bad you know we
could have had spaces for more people
that want to be here in Scottdale want
to pay taxes want to Make a Better
Community but I understand so that makes
perfect sense that um uh you know that
it's now at 89
units um you know that's the Aesthetics
and the amenities that I look at the
economics it's certainly a better use of
the
resources um you know getting rid of a
half empty building or office building
and replacing it with uh housing which
is a good thing it's you know it's a
highly occupied neighborhood uh traffic
you know we had talked about that chair
higs had brought that up it's basically
a wash at least on weekdays you know
it'll increase on the weekends but still
um it's basically a wash
um so I think it's a good project too
did you want to commissioner um Gonzalez
want to comment
further my only reluctance on on it was
that uh I really wish that the the
project prior to this was built way
because I really like underground
parking that's a personal assumption
nothing else I would have preferred to
see another floor and underground
parking that's just my own thing but I
will support the project that's good to
hear okay um I think with that we will
move to a motion um thank you for your
presentation I do believe it may be a a
longer discussion at drb so be prepared
please would anyone like to make a
motion
sure I make a motion for recommendation
of approval to city council for case 3
ZN 2024 per the staff recommended
stipulations after finding that the
proposed zoning District map amendment
is consistent and conforms with the
adopted General plan motion from
commissioner ell and a second I'll
second it and a second from commissioner
Joiner roll call vote please chair higs
yes Vice chair young yes commissioner
Gonzalez yes commissioner Kaminsky yes
commissioner to yes commissioner Joiner
yes commissioner Scaro yes motion passes
thank
you okay now we move on to oh yes um
yeah if we could take just a few minutes
uh for a break if I'm sorry I know Mr
car's ready to roll but we have been up
here for a little
while just five minutes please thank
you
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regular agenda item number seven 3A 2024
and then are we combining them you're
also going to do number eight for ta
2024 I will chair and I'll I'll do that
separately okay and just so you know um
we do have a request to speak on number
seven
great all right so uh chair higs Vice
chair young members of the commission
thank you for receiving me this uh
evening as we take another important
step in the process of um updating the
city's uh code requirements to um in
relation to recent State legislation
this particular legislation I'm going to
talk about first is related to Adaptive
reuse um the commission saw this again
two weeks ago um for a non-action
hearing and was provided most of the
background information on this I will go
through that again just uh for the
benefit of those in the audience in in
the KE and at home so again um the
purpose of this meeting this this
evening is to provide a recommendation
uh hopefully from the Planning
Commission to City Council on the city's
approach as provided in the case 3A 2024
this is to meet the the requirements of
the new state laws as I mentioned in
particular for this text Amendment 3ta
it would be adaptive reuse house bill
2297 as well as development application
determination which is Senate Bill
1162 this again allows for more uh uh
for additional public input as we were
going to hear tonight as well we're
going to outline the timeline and next
steps as we continue to move through
this process um again that background
related to the Adaptive reuse Bill house
bill 2297
um some just background in the state of
Arizona grants cities and towns uh
municipalities with the local authority
to implement zoning and land use
regulations subject to their the state
law house bill 2297 was introduced and
passed by the state legislature and the
governor signed that I'm sorry in April
2024 to allow for adaptive reuse of
existing commercial office and mixed use
buildings to be repurposed as multif
family housing the city must comply with
this state law um with compliance the
the goal that we have through this whole
process was to minimize any negative
impacts that may um result in the from
the new law on the
community so when we talk about um this
this particular bill this the bill uh
allow requires cities to allow um
adaptively reusing existing buildings or
existing sites um to allow for existing
commercial office use buildings to be
adapted to new multif family uses um
that would be further restricted by
saying that they'll have to be on
Parcels of land that are existing
between one and 20 acres in size and
those buildings have to be economically
or functionally obsolete which is
essentially a state of disrepair or have
at least 50% vacancy um to qualify the
total allowed adaptive reuse that the
city May designate cannot exceed 10% per
the bills
requirements um so what does that state
law dictate to the city so there's a few
things first the city cannot require
public hearing process and this is the
probably the most impactful with regards
to our typical process obviously we're
here in public hearing process this
evening we just had another application
went through the public hearing process
for a multif family building and so this
is kind of the main thing that we're
seeing out of this legislation that's
that has the impact to the community the
city cannot require a public hearing
process for these transitions from the
commercial use to the multif family use
this would include you cannot do a
rezoning process conditional use permit
process or even a development re board
process for design the bill also says
that the city cannot establish setbacks
density parking or Building height that
is any greater or or more uh impactful
than the requirements set forth in that
state law so what the city can require
however this is also outlined in the
bill is site plan review and approval
process do an administrative
administrative means compliance with
building and fire codes the requirement
of adequate public sewer and water
service and public utility review uh
again we mentioned that that existing
buildings must be economically or
functionally obsolete so there's some
determination on that to the process in
addition um these new projects to
conversion there needs to be a minimum
of 10% of those uh new units that are
constructed that are at least um that
are set aside for either moderate or
low-income housing for at least 20 years
and finally U buildings within the
vinity of an
airport uh and within property are ex
Exempted from these requirements and the
city may also further exempt uh existing
commercial locations up to 10% of those
existing commercial locations throughout
the the the city so as I mentioned one
of those exclusions that U the city is
employing for the bill is airport
exclusion the leg legislation
particularly says that any buildings
within the vicinity of airport as
defined um within the state regulations
um are excluded from this
legislation another exclusion is um the
city May designate as I mentioned up to
10% of existing commercial areas for um
uh protection so to speak from that
conversion the city is choosing to do so
and that 10% um and when you factor out
all the other exclusions equals uh
roughly 934 th000 Square fet those
properties that that that the city is uh
choosing to exempt at this point are
listed on the screen here and you can
see the total uh square footage there
um again the the eligibility uh
standpoint the city May designate up to
10% of the city's existing commercial
office or mixed use buildings to be
eligible for adapted reuse however
through our analysis the city is
determining that uh appropriate 1%
conversion would be more appropriate for
the city's existing makeup of commercial
and office space and mixed use space
throughout the community and so uh that
amount uh equals again roughly about
94,000 ft feet that's eligible for
conversion within 10 buildings this
chart on the right would be uh an
ability for staff to tr keep track of
those conversions over
time so again our approach uh on this
particular text amendment is to
establish a new land use category called
multif family conversion uh and our
approach again it limits the total
conversion of commercial property in the
city to 1% of our existing uh commercial
land use and and employment areas we are
again taking advantage of the exclusions
as outlined in the uh state law
specifically for airports and
designation of commercial hubs the
eligibility is uh again a determination
of the pre of the existing buildings
within the city and there's other
requirements with regard to locations
such as um must be with an existing
building prior to uh a date of 12:31
when this is inacted as well as must
have between one acre and 20 acres in
size on the lot as we mentioned there's
requirements for infrastructure
demonstrating adequate infrastructure
and that the building is economically or
functionally obsolete for at least six
months prior to the requesting
conversion again 10% of the project area
must be provided as moderate or
low-income
housing so that outlines our approach
for uh that house bill we're going to
move on now to um the other areas of
this text Amendment um specifically
related to language uh dealing with
Senate Bill 1162 again this has to do
with our development process and how we
process essentially rezoning
applications Senate Bill 1162 um
requires the city to adopt in their
ordinance or zoning ordinance particular
or uh specific zoning uh application
timelines with regards to
administratively reviewing that
application specific timelines on the
review of a subser review and decision
on that application as well those are 30
days for administrative review and 180
days for a subse review and deter and
decision on an application the city can
grant extensions um a one-time extension
of 30 days for uh special
circumstances as well as the applicant
May request extensions of 30 days on
that application process as well so our
approach is to update our zoning code um
with this text amendment to uh
acknowledge the 30 days for first review
of administrative application
administrative reviews applications
15 days for second review of
administrative and uh any second or
subsequent review of administrative uh
applications update perimeters of our
incomplete applications that's really a
cleanup of our existing language and
Define a specific time frame for
rezonings only and again this is with
regards to the specific language within
SB 1162 which says that that must be 180
days or less from the time it's
determined to be a complete application
to a decision by uh City counc Council
and so we're making that change all
their timelines as we currently have
them defined are we're going to remain
the same this is only specifically to
rezoning timelines with 180
days finally there's an additional
Amendment here to acknowledge recent
action handled or taken by City Council
in September to repeal the city's loan
Central business district um so there
are some updates in the actual actual
zoning code that need to acknowledge
that update um this is only related to
our PC district and um instead of using
the previously adopted and approved um
Central business district they will now
refer to the McDow Road Scot scottow
Road growth area
boundary so for our timeline again um we
originally initiated this with Planning
Commission back in July we've had two
public Outreach openhouse opportunities
in September um we as we mentioned we
were here two two weeks ago as a
non-action item for discussion and we
here hope pleas for tonight for
recommendation from Planning Commission
to city council our next step post this
is to see City Council in November uh
ten schedule for November 25th and again
these Provisions must be adopted by
local municipalities no later than
January 1st so there is a little bit of
a time crunch here we will be looking at
Future General plan amendments as we
move forward that address this topic
further but at this point we're just
strictly related to the zoning ordinance
in order to meet the state statutes and
uh meet all of our timelines there so
that concludes I'm sorry the staff
recommendation for tonight is for the
the uh Planning Commission to recommend
the city council of adoption of the
ordinance adopting this change and the
associated resolutions dealing with this
um declaring a public record for the
text Amendment as well as a declaring a
public record for our determination of
compy commercial unemployment hubs as
well as our allocation table for the
conversion so that concludes uh my
presentation on this topic this this
evening have to answer any questions you
have thank you Mr Carr um can you remind
me I know when we we had our an
executive session and then a non-action
item um so you've gone through this in
thorough detail with us thank you as the
Planning Commission um what the
engagement with city council has been
thus far I know you're presenting to
them on in November but certainly chair
higs members of the of the commission at
this point City staff has had initial
discussion with city council before even
initiating the text liment so this been
back in uh early summer to discuss their
approach um and that happened during an
executive session but we are going to be
further uh having that engagement with
them obviously at city council but we
might also be meeting with them
separately to discuss it further perfect
if if I may add um um chair members of
the commission there were a couple
Council um members um participating in
the open house in terms of that overall
information thank you great thank you
Comm
starbor just just a comment uh Mr Carr
Mr yarn and to all the city staff thank
you uh you guys have put in a lot of
time and effort and uh I think the
outcome is for sure you guys are
definitely minimizing the negative
impacts to the citizens so I just want
to say thank you yes agreed thank you
and I want to acknowledge all the people
behind the scenes it's been Adam myself
that have been front and center but
we've had a lot of our staff behind the
scenes so want to thank all them as well
yes thank you commissioner Joiner I also
want to reiterate I thank you you guys
have done an amazing job with a horrific
problem I have a concern about staff
because the staff works very hard long
hours with these new requirements of 30
days to take action are you going to how
are you going to allocate the workload
of what comes in is there going to be
specific staff assigned to these with
these type of time frames or
whatever uh chair higs and commissioner
Joiner yeah there's a lot of things that
we have to talk about I mean certainly
um talking about it with uh the city
manager's office in terms of the budget
as the budget cycle is going to begin
soon um but also um just having probably
um spending a lot more time earlier in
the process even through the prea
process um some things may take longer
uh at the initial stages to make sure
that um we get enough information early
in the process um to to keep the um
schedule uh tight uh and so they'll
there'll probably be um you know we'll
probably be a little bit more careful
before we set up a pre-application
meeting make sure that we um and that
the applicant knows that we're going to
be asking perhaps more questions than we
had in the past and then certainly when
they make their application uh we'll
probably be even more diligent that the
application is complete with the
information for the review before we
start that time ticking so um we're just
want to make sure that um that the
applicant is aware that we're under this
time crunch and and they need to perform
as well as as the city reviewers need to
perform thank you yeah because we also
don't want to hamper a regular
application that's coming in that's
going through the process uh my last
question is if I'm understanding this
correctly if somebody comes through this
process they will not go through Dr
planning or the city council or will
that application just avoid us the two
of us but it will go to city council
chair HS commissioner uh join that's a
great question and and it is a process
where it would avoid essentially all
public hearing so it would be Planning
Commission and city council for the
zoning action and our typical process
would normally be after those are that
process is done it would go to drb that
process would also be avoided um if they
if that applicant is taking advantage of
this particular path the multif family
conversion
path thank
you commissioner Gonzalez does you have
something are you um Mr Curtis are you
um aware of anything any procedures or
anything uh as far as uh challenges
being made to the um Arizona or uh any
City bringing forth any challenges to uh
these
ordinances um sh commissioner Gonzalez
I'm not but perhaps our legal counsel um
could opine on
that chair uh members of the commission
no we are not aware of any uh
whether it be a town or municipality
that has uh suggested that there would
take some sort of a challenge I'm
assuming you're meaning a legal
challenge right yeah I'm not aware of
any town or city that has a a plan toh
file a lawsuit or challenge these in
court yeah thank you very much that the
purpose of that question was really to
see if there was going to be any delay
or anything else any action that might
delay uh you know our our time frame and
something like that because obviously
the city has to plan ahead and and do
these uh do these things and it's a
challenge for everybody's time and money
so you know if there's any actions
coming forward we definitely would would
want to be aware of things so that we
can see if that's going to alter our
schedule thank
you commissioner
Kaminsky yeah I had one point of
clarification and a couple questions
with regard to the con concern about no
public hearings that's only for the
Adaptive reuse cases that are including
affordable housing is that
correct uh chair higs commissioner
Kaminsky our understanding is if
somebody is uh eligible first and then
chooses to go down this path of uh multi
family conversion adapted reuse then yes
that would apply that no public hearings
component would apply to that yes
because there were multiple parts to
what you were presenting so that was
just the Adaptive reuse portion correct
yes okay thank you y um with regard to
the zoning um are you doing the 180 day
requirement for all zoning cases or only
residential zoning
cases again commissioner Kaminsky we we
are going to be applying that to all
zoning cases okay and are you applying
it to overlays like planned area
developments or just purely zoning from
one to another our understanding is it
would apply to all zoning applications
regardless of the types of overlay or or
standard zoning application planned area
developments any of those type would all
be subject to that 180-day requirement
which is why the details being fered out
earlier is important okay y they'll
still have to go through design review
but you need to know the details of the
design if you're going to be changing
the zoning certainly and as we know as
you know as a commissioner we get a lot
of more detail here um for a lot of
applications that may normally be
required in other jurisdictions right
okay one more question then you
mentioned on one of the earliest slides
that we are not able to change setbacks
density parking and Building
height uh because it's established by
state law requirements and I wasn't sure
there was a slide where you had can and
can't it was a leftand column I was
wondering what the
established requirements were in the
state law as it pertains to zoning
absolutely so it's somewhat complic ated
and um I'll go through that what the the
state statute says in this new bill is
that setback and density are I'm sorry
yes uh density and Building height I'm
should say are established by whatever
existing multif family is within one
mile of the proposed multif family
conversion if there's not something
within that mile then it defaults to
whatever's in the zoning ordinance at a
essentially a lower level um in that
zoning code um and so what what this uh
bullet point is um seeking to clarify is
that we can't require any more than that
we can't say that um even though there's
something within a mile that may be four
Stories We Can't Say No you're limited
to three stories we have to allow
whatever is within that mile um and for
same with density if there's a density
that's within a mile that's happens to
be 40 units to acre we can't say no we
really feel like this is 30 has to be 40
because that's what the the state
statute says so that is only if you're
rezoning to to a residential category if
you were going from let's say commercial
to Industrial would you apply that same
one mile radius for setbacks and height
as as we have the the requirements now
it would not apply to a commercial to
industrial type scenario or commercial
to commercial scenario it would just
apply to a commercial to multif family
conversion thank you y commissioner
ell I would go along with what my fellow
Comm Commissioners have said you know
you guys have done a lot of work on this
very creative very analytical and I'm
sure the you mentioned others on the
staff uh legal certainly has you know
put in a lot on this um my concerns are
not directed at you to you know I'm sure
that you know you're working within
Direction uh you've done a great job of
analyzing you know what the state has
required um
you I am concerned about you know the
the the HB 2297 says not more than 10%
of
existing um at least 10% of total
converted must
be
um you know for moderate or low income
housing uh the proposed tax amendment
allows for just
1% of eligible to be
converted and that's just not in keeping
with the spirit Spirit of the of the law
um the state law um you know one of my
concerns we talk about the negative
impact on the
community uh one of the negative impacts
is the burden that local government puts
on
development um making it more expensive
than it needs to be longer than it needs
to be which of course leads to expense
you know if the cities not just
Scottdale but the cities of Arizona had
been
more accommodating of property rights uh
the state wouldn't have been passing
laws like this
um that puts me in a minority position
I'm sure but you know I here for
property rights as much as uh anything
so you've done a great job and you've
worked within um what the law says and
what with what um you know city
government says but still I have
concerns about that uh you know 1% of of
eligible areas that's my
comment thank you Vice chair young
thanks chair higs thank you Mr Carr
um commissioner Kaminsky asked about the
setback density parking and Building
height and you had mentioned it could
have the ability to be in a comparable
density height of another multif family
use within one mile right correct okay
so and for forgive me if you've already
covered this if there's a two-story
commercial building that wants to
convert
to multif family and there's a multif
family within one mile that's four
stories is this conversion limited to
the Shell of the building or the
property so I I guess what I'm asking is
so if you're if well if you add two
stories to it that's technically not a
conversion anymore you're it's new
construction can you speak to that a
little bit sure chair higs Vice chair
young so the way the state statute reads
is it basically says that if you're
converting from to multif family um
development you do not need to retain
any of the existing buildings on the
site um so that could allow for the
scenario you just mentioned where might
be existing twostory building and uh
there's a four-story multif family in
the area within a mile they could then
utilize that height and density of that
multi family building to set their new
density and height for their building
okay so it could be could be a brand new
building
yes
okay thank you I would like to give our
speaker request to speak a chance here
before it gets too late uh Mr Frankle
you wanted to speak on item number
seven Tom Frankle 7340 East Main I'd ask
for just a couple more minutes I've got
a couple cases that that are directly
different addresses that are applicable
to this uh few more minutes sure
okay uh anyway um it was a surprise when
I read about this ordinance I read about
it maybe two months ago I never had
heard of it and uh I think it was
somebody in a magazine commenting on the
things that the multihousing association
had accomplished in 2024 and I read the
ordinance and truthfully I couldn't
believe that that had been passed and I
hadn't heard about it the state
ordinance
and
uh I have a love of process one of the
reasons Scottdale is a wonderful place
to live is because there is a Planning
Commission and a Dr board and a council
and people care what's built here and
there's discretion and it isn't Houston
or the wild wild
west but the reason the state passed
that okay and very eloquently put by
commissioner erle is there's a lot of R
roadblocks to putting something up and
there's a shortage of Housing and with
me personally I would very I would never
want to go against the city that has
allowed me to do what I do and
truthfully in the history of going
through Council and Planning Commission
in 35 years I think I've lost one case
where I couldn't move forward because
there was some opposition or Council
didn't like what I was doing but the S
the state came along and said there is
not enough housing and can you help me
Tim
um just I just want to get that one up
the case that you just heard okay uh
which sailed through Planning Commission
thank you very much
but
potentially not maybe with the council
that's I'm going to be heard from
hopefully this year but in a council
down the road whose marching orders from
constituents or agendas are no more
Apartments we don't want Apartments
okay um I might come with a beautiful
project and with the support of Planning
Commission and the support of my
neighbors and because people have
agendas they say we don't want to see
any more apartments in this
city no okay and the state came along
and came up with this mandate which if I
was
staff if I was this governing board if I
was a councel I don't know if I'd like
it too much that they said to me guess
what we're bypassing all of you and
we're going to allow this thing happen
but whether you like it or not it
happened the law was passed and um the
rule was to comply and I have my project
which you just heard and if you see that
wedge that everyone's familiar with uh
right by the hospital I'm closing on
that next week the big concrete building
right across it's architecturally it was
built by uh an architect named Godwin
it's very famous it's a beautiful
building that has been obsolete as a
medical building is 3/4 empty for the
last 25 years and that's the best
candidate in the history of adaptive
reuse to fall under the program the
state passed my concern is and yes if I
was staff if I was counsel if I was
planning commission I wouldn't like this
big monster coming to me and saying this
is we're not we're bypassing you on the
other hand if you're on the other end of
it where you might be up against people
that said we don't want to see that we
don't want to see that in our community
not in our backyard my neighbor didn't
want to see it built even though he
wanted it when he wanted to build his
thing and my concern with the way staff
has interpreted parts of it and I'd like
if possible that you would address
directly with legal or staff and the
first
one commissioner erle you're am I
pronouncing it right okay the 1% how
they're viewing that 1% of the inventory
which comes out to 94,000 square ft
which in a apartment term is 100
units if it is if first of all I don't
think staff or I don't think the state
will go along with that interpretation
but according if that's the way that you
adopt this 100 units could be built
under this under the
city second thing which is the more
concerning is
[Music]
um the airport
within uh so many uh uh proximity to an
airport meaning Sky Harbor or Scottdale
when the state adopted that and I've
talked to Governor Hobbs on it I've
talked to the legislators that wrote it
that was designed and I've talked to
staff about it okay that was designed
that in proximity of an airport meaning
proxim it flight flight pass of the
airport proximity to the near-term of
the airport that this
program could not be used how staff and
I'd like you to ask staff to come up and
interpret it and maybe legal how they
are interpreting it is they are using
the flight paths a map which says that
basically eliminates 78 of the city of
Scottdale properties
from uh being being able to use this
program that is not the way the
legislation was designed it's a
workaround in my opinion and I
understand why but it's a workaround
okay it's not the way the state did it
if staff has found a techn and I think
intent matters intent matters and
if first of all I think the city
potentially is opening them up to some
problems with that they're doing this
what I feel is a work work around and
even if it is they are going to in their
next legislative session make it crystal
clear and clarify it and I think it it's
the obligation if State came and said we
want more housing and this is how we're
going to do it even though I don't like
some of the control we're going to lose
at a city it's a law and it's your duty
also as a board to look at the intent of
that law and respect it and
not play around with at least in my
opinion and what the the purpose of it
was and if you could ask staff to
address that especially the airport
issue I'd be very curious in explanation
thank you chairman Hicks yes
commissioner Joiner I just want to make
one statement um and mainly this is for
people listening online and that is that
the majority of legislators that voted
for these two
laws they do not apply to the cities
that are in their
jurisdictions now this is legisl
uh the legislative district that
Scottdale sits in both of our
legislators voted no for this so the
majority of legislators are not going to
have to comply with the costs the issues
or the impact on their citizens and so
if it does come up before the
legislature in the next one I hope they
make it so that it applies equally to
all cities not just Scottdale and
Phoenix and Tucson which is in essence
what has happened
and the author of these bills lives in
uh Lake Havasu so their people are never
going to be impacted by these over
overlays and these uh what I consider to
be um impacts to my property values so
thank
you thank you okay any uh I think we're
good with discussion at this point um do
we want to have Mr Carr present um aenna
it number eight and vote on them or vote
on them individually have vote on the
first one okay um so if we could get a
motion for aga item number 7 3ta
2024 I'd like to make a motion for
recommendation of approval to city
council for case 3 ta 2024 after finding
that the proposed text amendment is
consistent and conforms with the adopted
General plan okay we have a motion from
commissioner Kaminsky in a second
second a second from commissioner
Scarboro roll call vote please chair
higs yes Vice chair
young
present say yes commissioner Gonzalez
yes commissioner Kaminsky yes
commissioner ell
no commissioner Joiner yes under
protest commissioner
Scaro yes motion passes than thank you
now we'll move on to agenda item number
8 4ta 2024 can we get a clarification
what um Vice chair what was your
vote I voted present right uh does that
mean uh for or
against don't we have the option to to
vote present your uh bylaws say absent
of conflict of interest or a declaration
of an appearance of impropriety
commission member shall vote on a motion
before the commission and your votes are
either to approve or
deny all right
yes all right uh again thank you chair
higs Vice chair young members of the
commission we're going to switch now to
the other text Amendment for this
evening related to housing which is 4ta
2024 similar to the the last uh text
amendment that includes Ed multiple
pieces to that uh to that Amendment this
one does as well primarily dealing with
accessory dwelling units um but there's
some other components this as well that
I will get
into so again we're here to discuss um
items related to 4ta 2024 which um
relate to new state laws primarily
necessary dwelling units or House Bill
2720 but also um related to Backyard
foul which was House Bill 2325
again we're here to get any further
additional public input and outline our
timeline in next
steps so again a little background on
this particular bill um this was
introduced and passed by the state
legislature and signed by the governor
again in April 2024 to allow for the
development of accessory dwelling in
it's commonly known as adus on single
family Residential Properties throughout
the city the city must comply with the
state law at this point um and our
intent is to again minimize any negative
impacts as result of the law on the
community this has a little bit of a a
Twist to it with regards to the date of
compliance still January 2 uh January 1
of
2025 but um if the city does not um
outline any requirements or establish
any requirements by that date sary
delling units will be allowed on all
lots and parcel zoned residential in the
city Without
Limits so that's why we are here tonight
to try to um work through this process
continue moving forward towards city
council uh review
of this uh the updates so let's start
with what is an Adu and again this is um
I'm sure you've seen this you saw this
two weeks ago we're going to do some
further education for those watching
online in the audience an Adu is
generally a subordinate and
self-contained dwelling unit that is on
the same lot as a main single family
residential dwelling but separate in
some way what that those can be either
attached or detached um but they
generally have their own separate living
areas kitchen facilities and sanitary
facilities um they come in many
different shapes and Si sizes but most
are um again self-contained detach
structure separate from the single
family home but you do see those
occasionally as attached um whether it
be on a second floor over a garage or
just simply attached on the ground floor
to the
building so um with this state law what
does the the the state law dictate for
the city as far as what the city must
must do U what we must do is allow at
least one attached Adu as well as one
detached Adu on any single family
property uh in the Pro in the city that
is not part of an exclusion or exemption
area finally the city must allow a third
detached Adu if it's that parcel that
it's on is one acre in size and the
property owner designates that Adu as an
affordable housing
unit um we also must allow an Adu to be
75% of the gross floor area of the main
single family residents up to a maximum
of 1,000 square ft the city cannot umoh
hbit those adus from being short or
long-term lease leases uh I know this
has been a point of contention about the
idea of those adus those new adus being
uh restricted and not being allowed to
be short-term rentals that is not the
case as far as we're concerned and
interpret the the state requirements so
um either short-term or long-term leases
of adus will be permitted um we cannot
require any familiar relationship
between the owner of the main prop the
main home or the adus and we cannot
require any additional part parking for
an Adu or any fees in Li of parking um
we cannot require an Adu have to have an
exterior design uh that's like that of
the single family home on the property
and we cannot require setback
requirements greater than 5et from
either the rear or side property line
for an
Adu um we can't require any additional
public improvements to the streets as a
result of allowing an edu and we cannot
require um any PRI permits licenses or
conditions between the private parties
that are occupying those different ad
adus or the main residents and U
important to this distinction to the
city of Scottsdale because we have this
requirement currently we cannot require
adus to have a fire sprinker system
currently if you build an accessory
building on a property here in
Scottsdale whether that be a guest house
or any kind of other occupiable building
those have to require fire sprinklers
this new U state law says we cannot
require fir sprinkers in
adus so what does scust allow now for
accessory um units um we only allow
guest houses and those are the
distinction and I'll state that further
in other slides about what a difference
is between a guest house and what we are
considering Adu but essentially a guest
house is permitted currently in
Scottdale we have a long history of
allowing guest houses on properties
throughout the city but those are
designed to AC accommodate guests of the
OCC and occupants of guests and of the
occupants of the main building or
residents they must be at least half the
size
or or they can be no greater than half
the size in the main building they have
to be connected to the water meter of
the main building and they cannot be
rented separately from the main building
that's one of the primary distinctions
between a guest house and Adu a guest
house cannot be rented separately from
the main residents whereas an Adu will
be allowed to be rented
separately so as we get here on the
screen here what that difference between
what we have as guest houses and what
are adus again the maximum size a half
half the size the main house this could
lead to a rather large guest house and
we do see sometimes rather large guest
houses if you have a a residence that's
3,000 fet you could have a guest house
as 1500 we've seen guest houses that are
the size of main residents so that's um
big distinction here as far as size
whereas an Adu is going to be limited to
1,000 square feet or 75% of the main
residents again cannot be rent
separately for a guest house can be
rented separately for the for an
Adu so what are we proposing uh part of
our approach um again we're going to
exclude any of those exclusion areas as
permitted by state law that includes the
same uh airport vicinities as outlined
in the prior text Amendment uh we are
going to require an Adu owner of an Adu
that is used as a vacation or short-term
rental to reside on the property and
that is a specific allowance or that's
outlined in the state law so we are
going to continue that forward uh we we
are going to restrict the size of
multiple adus on a property make sure
there's sufficient Water and Sewer
capacity capacity as well as um
establish specific Property devopment
Standards specifically for the adus we
want to we want to note on the screen
here as highlighted the any requirements
that are privately held within an HOA um
that may restrict an Adu are still in
place the state law makes it very clear
that if an HOA is in place and it has
private restrictions for um Adu or any
kind of accessory structure those are
not um uh uh negated by the new state
law they can still be enforced
so again our approach with adus we're
going to establish qualifications um for
that new land use which is assessory
drawing units adus those qualifications
include location it must be located on a
lot that has established single family
residential house um utilities uh for an
Adu must have be separately metered from
a from a main residence ownership uh we
are requiring that or we're uh
restricting that ownership you cannot um
sell an Adu separately from the main
residence it must be uh a property must
if it has an Adu must be sold in whole
with the Adu and the main residents um
renting you can rent a uh Adu as a
short-term rental but again the owner
must reside on the site um and we are
not allowing uh the Adu or the location
of Adu to be subdivided in any way to
create a lot uh or condo regime as a
result of an Adu being on the
property we also Al going to be
establishing some uh objective
development standards including density
as we mentioned one attached one
detached and if you have an acre and
it's affordable Adu you could do an
additional restricted affordable Adu um
the size as we mentioned it's limited to
75% of the main resins or 1,000 square
feet whichever is less for that first
Adu on the property any subsequent Adu
on the property are limited to 500
square
feet occupancy um the total occupancy
for a uh prop a parcel a lot is going to
be six adults and so that would be the
main residents and any additional any
adus on the property collectively cannot
have more than six adults on on the on
the property again there's no familiar
uh marital employment or other
pre-existing relationship requirements
for owner of occupant of the main
residence or any Adu but um total uh
adults on the lot cannot exceed six
Building height is going to be the same
as whatever that is allowed by
underlying zoning district and the
setbacks are generally the same with the
exception that an Adu um in the side and
rear yards can be located up to as close
as 5et from the property
lines so um transitioning again to the
second component uh within the update 24
ta is uh addressing House Bill 2325
which was regard to Backyard foul State
legislation now requires uh fouls to be
kept in enclosure in the rear yard of uh
single family properties um that
enclosure must be at least 20 ft from a
neighbor property and have a maximum
size of 200 square feet and a height of8
feet so uh our approach is again just to
kind of really outline that and you can
see that on the screen we're going to
follow those requirements as established
by the state for keeping a backyard foul
in the on single family properties we do
have existing uh parameters of keeping
domestic animals on properties those
will continue to to apply this is
strictly related to
um the structures to house foul um and
where those are located on their
property so as we do with any other uh a
lot of time we do address text
amendments in our zoning code we want to
take the opportunity to uh improve the
administration and usability of the
zoning code so there's a number of
different topics listed on the screen
here where we're doing that um
non-conforming structures related to
single family residential drawing
specifically we're making a
clarification in the code as a result of
a interpretation recent zoning
administrator interpret we're clarifying
that in the code accessory building the
structures we're clarifying the the
layout of that in our zoning ordinance
um substantively not is nothing is
really changing with regard to that we
are clarifying what residential
Recreation areas are and some have
questioned what that is and that's
essentially what you know a lot of
people call a sport court or pickle ball
court or uh putting green we have those
throughout the city um those have been
traditionally lumped into as accessory
buildings although they're not really
buildings so we wanted to make that
distinction with this text amendment in
the code um so residential Recreation
areas is a new land use that makes that
distinction again to create that talking
about distinction we want to create that
distinction between what is a guest
house and what is an Adu so there's a
little bit of updates to the what
defines a guest house in the code to
further Define that that distinction U
manufacturing home regulations are a
little bit vague in the code we're
taking the opportunity to update that as
well as Foothill Foothills overlay and
again we're clarifying any existing
language correcting typographical areas
errors or restructuring text reusability
throughout the code with this text
Amendment so similar to the timeline
we've had for the 3A we're going to have
the same timeline here because the same
uh deadline is in place January 1st 2025
so again after recommendation hearing
tonight uh by the Planning Commission we
are scheduled to be in front of the city
council on November 25th with this text
Amendment so the staff recommendation
again is to adopt the ordinance for this
text amendment to implement this text
Amendment as well as the public record
that actually houses that text in
language with that I'm happy to answer
any questions the commission may have
yeah I'll start it off um thank you for
the presentation Mr Carr um to ensure
there won't be any attempts
to back to adus sell an Adu separate
from the residents are there any
requirements in there are
recommendations from us that they must
share the same residential address I
know they're separate metering units in
terms of utility ities but the address
so chair higs we are requiring that adus
have a separate address separate address
yeah so what usually how that happens
for a property that has multiple
addresses on one property they do a unit
number yep um but the address is the
same but just a different unit number so
okay um the property will still
essentially be that same address just
Unit 101 right yeah okay okay thank you
commissioner scarber thank you chair hgs
Mr Carr uh you uh disc discussing how
HOAs could privately restrict adus I'm
just curious was there any language uh
in state law that that suggests that the
the HOA covenants have to be in place by
a certain date or is this something the
citizenry can go and explore privately
on their own today and actively try to
enact um some sort of Association and
and restrict
adus chair higs commissioner Scarboro
from what I've read on that there's no I
don't think get that specific as to say
that they have to be enacted by a
certain date um obviously we can't
really provide any Counsel on if how
that really plays out but as far as I
recall from the language it doesn't give
a specific date that those requirements
have to be in place I just want to give
the citizenry the the ability to know
that and and enact what they feel might
be necessary for their neighborhoods
again I want to say thank you Mr Carr Mr
yaron everybody on staff um before doing
all you can to minimize and negative
effects to the citizens thank you thank
you
commissioner commissioner
Joiner thank you I um I hate this but
you guys have done an amazing job uh
just for clarification and I think I've
I think I know the answers to these but
I just want the audience to know if an
Adu is being used as a rental do they
still have to go through the city of
Scottsdale for a license for the purpose
of notifying neighbors around in the
area that there is a rental and who the
responsible party is chair higs
commissioner join I I'm assuming you're
R to referring to a short-term rental
yes yes yes they would they would still
have to comply with our short-term
rental requirements which includes uh
registering and notification thank you
and uh just to clarify a manufactured
home cannot be put on property in other
words they can't bring in a mobile home
and stick it in the backyard
commissioner Joiner yes um and how we do
that is we say that an Adu is a building
and then you to look at the definition
of a building it requires a certain
standard which is generally the IRC
International residential code for for
constructibility um generally like a
trailer or travel trailer or mobile home
wouldn't meet that IRC standard so then
wouldn't qualify as a building and
therefore as an Adu thank
you commissioner gon
salz thank you for your presentation um
so I'm my question is and you you said
it but you said it either so fast or I
didn't get
it the attached
Adu has to have separate uh utilities to
it even at attached one has to have
separate utilities chair higs and and
commissioner Gonzalez that is correct
every any type of Adu whether that be
attached or detached would be required
to have separate utilities so they would
be required so does does the attached
Adu have to have fire sprinklers or not
the attached Adu would not have to have
fire sprinkler even though the main
residents that it would be attached to
would have to have the respire sprinkers
so kind of a weird Nuance there again um
because our we have a longstanding um
requirement for fire spers in single
family residences um going back to the
80s a lot of properties here in
Scottdale already have Fire slinkers
Within them and so you could a situation
where you have a main house that has
Sprinklers and attached Adu that does
not was there ever any mention anywhere
about then if they if you have one
sprinkled room next to an UNS sprinkled
room do they have any requirements to
say any requirements as far as the
ordinance about having any kind of
firewall or any protection between those
two pie pieces a
property uh commissioner Gonzalez from
the General Building Code standpoint yes
there's re requirements for separation
um I don't know theic requirement was 1
hour separation or three hour but there
are General requirements for separation
of different units so those would that
would still apply but the idea that one
is sprinkler versus the other the state
really doesn't get into that kind of
nuance it just says you can't require a
firer and Adu okay yeah thank
you okay I don't know that there's any
other comments or questions um would
anybody like to make a motion at this
time
sure can can we roll seven and eight
together or do we vote on those
separately we already went through seven
oh I'm sorry
Yep this is this is just eight this is
just okay my bad it's late I
understand thank you make a motion for
recommendation of approval to city
council for case 4 ta 2024 after finding
that the proposed text amendment is
consistent and conforms with the adopted
General plan motion from commissioner
ell and a second a second and a second
from commissioner Kaminsky can we get a
roll call vote
please chair higs yes Vice chair
young oh
God yes commissioner Gonzalez reservedly
yes commissioner Kaminsky yes
commissioner erel yes commissioner
Joiner under protest yes commissioner
Scaro yes motion passes thank you very
good thank you so that concludes our
items for this evening thank you all for
your patience those that have stuck
around all this time um if there's no
other questions or comments this
concludes our meeting is there a motion
for Jour I second the motion okay a
motion all in favor I'm sorry all right
thank you thank you good night