Transportation Commission - March 20 2025

e
e
e
e
e e
good evening everyone this is chair
Miller and I'd like to formally call the
meeting to order welcome to City staff
Transportation Commissioners and the
public to the March 20th 2025
Transportation Commission meeting
meetings are held in person televised on
Cox Cable channel 11 and streamed online
on scottsdaleaz.gov
for the public to listen and view the
meeting in progress like to ask for a
roll call to begin this evening's
meeting chair Miller here thank you Vice
chair will coxon here thank you
commissioner merman here thank you
commissioner
pitz here thank you commissioner cile
here thank you commissioner Cardella
here thank you and commissioner Davis is
absent thank you
thank you spoken common is being
accepted for agendized and non-
agendized items the request to speak
forms must be submitted no later than 90
minutes before the start of this meeting
we received any requests for spoken
comments chair Miller members of the
commission no we have received no
request to speak forms thank you thank
you written comments are being accepted
for agendized and non- agendized items
and should be submitted electronically
at least 90 minutes before the start of
this meeting
these comments are also emailed to the
Transportation Commission and posted
online have we received any written
comments chair Miller members of the
commission we have not received any
written comments either thank you thank
you so much so that takes us to the
first item on the agenda agenda the
agenda the approval of the meeting
minutes of uh February 20th
2025 have a motion
or motion to adopt the the meeting
minutes
for what was the date thank you
commissioner
second commissioner wil Cox in second
are there any comments on the meeting
minutes comments on the meeting minutes
okay we will do a roll call here to
approve chair Miller no no I have some
comments oh okay sorry um just last on
uh page
three of the minutes there appears to be
some confusion over at least in my mind
confusion over the um area that we were
talking about here it talks about uh it
was undetermined if speed occurring past
82nd Street to
Hayden uh as opposed to 82nd Street past
Hayden and then the next paragraph it
says the entire half mile is Hayden
to it says 82nd to Granite Reef is a
half mile but a half mile is actually
Hayden to Granite Reef so I think we
just need to
clarify chair Miller members of the
commission we can make that
clarification and edit in there okay my
second comment is that on page five
particularly at the beginning it is full
of alphabet soup lots of acronyms that
are not um defined up there
dspm
rrfbs Hawks we pretty much know those
but I would prefer to have those uh
reference for the public who may be
reading
these chair Miller we can also um make
sure that we're completely spelling
those out and then use the abbreviations
after each thank you thank you um two
more comments then
um commissioner Davis had pointed this
one out
on uh item number five on page seven in
the
paragraph right before the motion talks
about lpes are in the J system and he
believes and he's probably correct that
it's the gis system that is correct
we'll make that
change and finally um just a comment on
the on the minutes under item four um we
have in the minutes that they noted the
discussion that at this meeting we will
talk about initial goals and policies in
the draft for the safety um plan just
want to uh note as staff has has
mentioned to me that that was not ready
for this meeting and will be coming to
us at a later meeting is that correct do
yes chair Miller thank you that will be
coming in the May uh Transportation
Commission meeting now
thank you and if there's no other
comments I guess I will take a motion to
approve with those
changes motion to adopt the minutes from
February 20 20th 2025 with the uh with
the
changes and I second the motion thank
you you take a
vote chair Miller approved thank you
Vice chair W coxon approved thank you
commissioner Morman approve thank you
commissioner
PTZ yes thank you commissioner cile yes
thank you and commissioner Cardella yes
thank you minutes are approved as
amended thank you next item on the
agenda is prop 479 arterial life cycle
program Nathan Dom will give us the
presentation thank you chair Miller
members of the Transportation Commission
yes last time we talked about the
arterial life cycle program was April of
last year so seeing as it's March of
2024 seems like we'll start doing this
on a yearly cycle but also uh on the
previous election cycle prop 479 passed
for the regional sales tax to be
continued for the next 20 years and as
part of that we had a series of arterial
projects that will get funded by the
region so I wanted to give a overview of
what those projects were again as well
as what we do at the local level to
support and facilitate
those so prop 479 is now continuing that
tax from 2026 to
2046 the uh image is showing Joe Max
East looking East uh from Scottsdale
Road this will be one of the roads that
is on the list but to just show from a
street angle what is kind of existing
and then if you could imagine just
expanding it adding curb gutter medians
um all the features that will bring
roadways up to current standards as well
as to their ultimate configuration so
one of the key ones is Joe Max uh going
from Scottsdale to Pima so background
again about the arterior life cycle
program to finded at it's a defined list
of arterial projects to be funded
through Prop 47 prop 400 will be um now
updated to say through prop 479 through
December of 20 45 uh it's a regional
sales tax of
0.5% um to Maricopa County to fund uh
70% of the alcp projects so it's a
20-year tax to go um and that is
maintained and uh the funding is
maintained by Maricopa County on the
local level the cities manage the
projects and receive the 70%
reimbursement what we need to do is um
come up with our 30% local match to use
those 70% funds so we required to find
30% of the funding as well as to manage
the projects all the way to finishing so
City staff is required to find the
consultants for design find um the
contractors for construction and see it
all the way to the end mag will
reimburse us for their portion of that
the projects can include um at at least
a local level based on our own design
standards bike lane sidewalks
roundabouts uh bike paths Trails
anything that supports our local
policies so you can see Redfield here
being roundabout installed at 2023 that
was with alcp funding um something that
the city asked for at that
time this the goal of the alcp is to
widen existing roads to match future
projected um capacity needs uh improve
intersections mostly uh also to
construct new arterial segments but
overall bring the segments to current
standards as well as their ultimate
configuration ation based on the needs
of the the surrounding area they are
roads of significant um Regional
significance so we're talking about our
arterials that connect not just across
our entire city but across different
cities um linking those that arterial
Network together so that when you cross
multi multiple jurisdictions you can
feel a level of consistency among your
arterial
roadways I guess that would be what mag
is getting out of the the um the deal
that across all the region we are
feeling some level of of reliability on
our material Network prop 479 is going
to start in January of 26 and continue
for 20 years so we will end the funding
uh cycle for prop 400 December of 25 and
pick right back up with January of 26
the importance of this is the projects
that we have remaining in prop
400 they have their dedicated funding
source that was collected up to 25 and
then this new batch of projects will
have their dedicated funding source and
from my understanding from mag is is
those will be very separate buckets of
funding on their level um for us when it
comes to how we do our local match the
30% is with our 0.1% sales tax that was
passed in 2019 that is dedicated to just
the alcp match um for now and that will
be able to be used for both prop 400
projects as well as prop 4 479
projects the new list of projects with
prop 479 is shown on the screen prop 400
projects were primarily focused on the
north south routes so Scottdale and Pima
were the primary recipients of that
funding as well as some of the
interchanges on the 101 and some of
sheay this one is looking a lot more at
the East West movements particularly in
the north so we're looking at um going
from top to bottom of the map nothing
neily the uh the graphic or I can go
with the graphic so 56th the uh the
chart so 56th Street just to the west of
the city right between Jox and dynamite
is one of the projects that will be a
new roadway it's kind of a Half street
right now that would be a full
reconstruction as well as a full new
roadway and a new arterial 92nd and 94th
we'll get a reconfiguration a
reconstruction of itself it's right down
into the middle of the city um Dynamite
from 56 to Pima would get a widening um
so Crossing Scottdale road going from
from 56 all the way over to uh Pima so
kind of connecting into what we're just
now doing on Prop 400 Happy Valley uh we
just completed Happy Valley uh just west
of just east of Pima now we're going to
the West all the way over to Scottsdale
Road Hayden Road from melbs to Indian
school that's going to get a Rec
construction as well a if anybody drives
that road they know that it's very it's
pretty out of date so getting a
reconstruction of that area would be
pretty helpful including the um
non-motorized activities along that
Corridor joax 56 to 95th another
widening project I showed in the
previous slide Legacy uh Boulevard um
will'll be getting a new
bridge um Lone Mountain will be widening
so I guess going back to the Legacy it's
been half constructed by uh DC wrench so
the other half the more southern part
will be constructed by us through this
this program to complete that segment it
kind of it it cuts in and goes over one
Bridge we'll connect that second bridge
and add the four lanes back to that
section Lone Mountain will get a
widening so that will be the completion
of all of those uh um and then Pinnacle
Peak so pretty substantially all the
East West arterial movements in the
northern part of the city Miller will
get its uh connection underneath the
already
constructed um underpass under the Loop
101 during prop 400 we completed the the
cutout as it were of the ADOT facility
the Loop 101 now it'll be putting the
roadway in with also with uh developer
help in that area to complete that
roadway
Mountain View uh would be a
reconstruction along um Mountain View
from 92nd to 96 there's been some uh
resident concerns about a possible
widening there uh it would be just a
reconstruction um at at best for there
Pinnacle Peak Scottdale road to Pima
would be another roadway widening up
north to its ultimate configuration
Scottdale from Highland to Franklin wri
would be the one of the biggest ones on
this list and as you can see on the map
it's a very long stretch that's going to
be
a pretty detailed reconstruction of of
Key Parts along that that Corridor we
have various
um I wouldn't say issues but I guess
concerns along that quarter we'd look to
just make a full Improvement of anything
that was not to our standards along that
that
quarter uh m scuss road melops to
Roosevelt is just a small stretch there
for Recon construction then Scottdale
from Loop 101 to joax this has been a
long-standing uh effort or interest
including improv 41 400 uh so that would
finally get done along this uh series of
projects and then finally Via Linda from
90th Street to Frankl Wright being
another reconstruct so about 320 million
dollar worth of improvements here both
from us and the region for all of these
roadways throughout our city over the
next 20 years we're currently working
with mag
on um phasing these we have a phasing
plan right now but we're we're modifying
or looking to possibly modify if we see
any need to and then coordinate with
them about how we go about it how it
works is we will have four phases for
each of these projects comprising about
four or five projects in each of the
phases so phase one will come in and
we'll get those funding while phase two
three and four are waited that's exactly
how prop 400 worked so a lot of the
projects we talk about now were
established as projects in 2004 and some
people ask why did it take so long it's
just because those projects were phased
in Phase five so they were just on hold
until phase five came around while we
were doing other projects of prop 400 so
uh certainly a lot of um time and effort
made to to talk to mag and coordinate
which ones should be going and which
ones are of most need and need to come
in the
fastest so this is been a long-standing
effort by mag to fund these arterial
improvements as well as the highway
improvements in this in the valley
starting back from 1985 with prop 300
all the way till all the way up till uh
2045 will be a substantial amount of of
funding and and years of improvements
through the the Region's
Network um um going back to adding both
prop 400 and prop 479 you'll see on the
map the overall improvements that have
happened or going to happen so once we
get to to
2046 all of these projects will have
been completed and finished showing a
pretty comprehensive network of our
materials being improved upon over these
40 years so right now we have 67
probably a little bit more just now as
November hit and we finished three uh
alcp projects of the prop 400 projects
um
sorry Che this uh prop 400 has 67% of
projects with capacity improvements so
meaning that we widen Lanes in those
projects the other ones had just
modifications for safety or building
them out to have active transportation
and and complete for storm water
improvements um prop 479 is going to
have 66% of the projects with capacity
improvements the other ones again having
safety or accessibility uh improvements
along
them so going on to the 1% sales
tax
so the region in in 1985 passed prop
four uh prop 300 showing a half percent
sales tax that went all the way to 2025
we extended that like I said um going
from uh 26 to December of 25 with
another half% sales tax for prop 400
that was to do freeway arterial streets
and transportation system and the
transit
system then they just passed this one
this another half% sales tax to do the
exact same improvements so freeway
system arterial system and transit
system all getting
improved um when we look for our local
match we're looking to um in 2019 when
we went to go get our local match with a
1% sales tax we showed some uh
information about what kind of a how
high our sales tax was in comparison to
the rest of the valley and what was
shown was that we are at the close to
the bottom of the list of the percent of
sales tax that we have and this is
showing the 2025 numbers and the sales
tax that we we have and it's even lower
now to where we're at the bottom just
above Chandler for our sales tax our
tourism dollars brings in a significant
amount so we are able to facilitate
these improvements while still
maintaining a pretty low sales
tax so so going into a little bit of a
description of the sales tax that we
work with in the city in 1989 we passed
the 2% sales tax this is a permanent tax
this is based basically the Bedrock or
the foundation of how we do
Transportation improvements both on the
operating side but also on the capital
side so this is this funds all of our
operating efforts but but any of
our primarily locally funded projects as
well as our federal projects we we use
this to to support that so if we take
for example The chaperel Underpass a
federally funded project we used 2%
sales tax for that local match
and we'll use the 2% sales tax on many
of the local matches for federal
projects as well as funding 100% of our
our local needs the 1% sales tax passed
in January of 2019 it expires in
December of 29 and it is for that 30%
match of alcp projects focused primarily
on the arterial streets so that is a
dedicated Source just for this in order
to facilitate that local match it's been
back at that time we were finding
it concerning that we weren't going to
be able to fund our local match which
means we would have had to give up the
70% match that that mag was bringing to
us um the transportation director and
the um staff at that time asked to move
forward this tax it got passed and it's
been a a very important necessity in
accomplishing the projects that have
happened since 2019 um you can see on
the map that with that tax we have
finished the rain free project over in
the Air Park we have finished the Pima
projects between Pinnicle Peak Happy
Valley as well as Happy Valley we
finished the Hayden Miller Bridge that's
up there between
um Pinnacle Peak and Happy Valley we've
we've completed or started
the Loop 101 interchange uh improvements
and then several other of the ones but
it's been a a pretty significant
Improvement to us finishing off these
projects and so the arterial life cycle
next year for the prop 479 uh for the
request from the region so it's $320
million in total um the local
contribution that we would need to come
up with in order to get the 70% would
have been $96 million of that $320
million so going forward in the next 20
years that local contribution will be
$96 million
so as I said before we're looking to
phase the the alcp projects that is
looking for proper spacing of the
projects so as we're working with mag I
said the importance of the projects one
of those important factors is making
sure that we don't overload one side of
the network with too much construction
we want to space them out as evenly as
possible so let's say we don't do
dynamite and JX at the same time that
would obviously be a need for JX to be
operating while Dynamite is under
construction that will minimize
disruption we're looking for adequate
Project funding through the sales tax
coordination with the other
infrastructure so every time we do one
of these major roadway projects we
really want to make sure that we work
with the other departments as well as
our own internal staff to to facilitate
that we're doing things uh with less
disruption to the residents so an
example when we for
Jox from Scottsdale joax to dixileta we
were working with the water department
so that their water improvements would
happen before we did the roadway work so
they wouldn't have to come and dig up
the the project other
uh dig up our roadway to put in their
pipe and add more construction uh more
barricades for a longer length of time
same with with Thomas as well as as 68
Street side Walk we're always working
with our storm water or water department
to make sure that they will put in their
infrastructure before we go and top it
off with a roadway
Improvement we're also looking for ease
of implementation pre-project assessment
and strong resident feedback so looking
at all of these different steps before
we start implementing it in we we have a
we have a a moment here going up until
January 26 to make sure that we phase
this about as well as we can for both
the residents as well as things that we
need need to look at in order to to get
the projects done we know that a strong
need for the northern arterial projects
is going to be storm water improvements
uh reducing the wet Crossings bringing
it up putting Culver in that's going to
come with
significant um storm Water Analysis um
so we maybe time some of the projects JX
being one of the Prime examples with the
rawad wash going right through there
that we time that in a way that it gets
phased for the the transportation
improvements after we've already
conducted the storm Water Analysis to
kind of have that done before we start
working too closely with the the
transportation
aspects and so with that I'll take any
questions thank you for the presentation
there any
questions
question uh yes thank you uh uh CH
chairwoman and uh Nathan thank you for
the presentation it was very informative
um I just had a couple of questions um
and looks like a lot of work headed and
uh a lot of a lot of good work going
your way um when you said and I think I
I I got this you said that we have until
January 26 or January of of next year
basically to come up with a phasing plan
um do those pretty much do we pretty
much stick to the phasing plan like for
props 300 and 400 I'm assuming it was a
similar process and whatever was in the
original phasing plan did that kind of
proceed along the lines
or we would like to make a good phasing
plan that we can stick to but we we have
flexibility in that we can we can make
adjustments through the course of time
mag's very receptive to working with us
on our needs to do these projects so if
we need to phase something out or or
move it back they'll there's project
change request that we can make through
the course of time it'll just go through
the mag committees and get approval and
we can move it uh to accommodate that
need so we want to make a phasing plan
that's good but we can make changes if
we need to okay but it sounds like the
the plan itself and any adjustments are
entirely in the control with of the city
of Scottdale it is yes okay that's good
to hear and then on the project um I
think it was might have been number 13
on that map um the one on Scottdale Road
from uh um
uh Highland of for flank Ro Frank Lloyd
right oh yeah number 12 um you said that
that was going to be um reconstructing
in in different parts of it are you just
focusing on the on the arterial
intersections there or are are you doing
what are you doing so there's been
various improvements done along that
Corridor I think we still have uh
requests and funding that have have
asked for that area it's it's a large
portion of the central of the city so
when we start this I think we want to
start an evaluation of what we have
already done and then what needs to be
done to bring it up to a consistency so
what I mean spot improvements is just
looking at what we've done over the
course of time since we've asked for
this in
2016 and what is left to be done so if
it if it kind of gets sectioned off into
several locations we would be doing it
that way we did the similar thing on
Shay for prop 400 where it wasn't a
complete reconstruction of Shay it was
several key intersections so uh I guess
we would do a preliminary analysis of
what needs to be done and it might a get
sectioned off into different uh projects
and then also be in certain locations
that need those improvements I guess
this is a good part to note in prop 400
we started with 13 projects it got
sliced up into about 30 some projects
and that's just for ease of doing the
projects when we look at particularly
stretch like Scottdale Road from
Highland to Frankl right it's a pretty
long stretch so what we did in prop 400
was on some of those long stretches we
did cut them off into four or five
different projects and that seemed to
work for us so that could be a potential
too where we take it and
we'll uh take for example frinkle right
to Thunderbird Thunderbird to Shay Shay
down to mccormic Parkway mccor Parkway
down to Highland I just threw those
roads out as as as potential but just as
an example of what we've done in the
past so that could be a chance for us to
do that too okay all right thank you so
it it a similar I could turn to the Shay
project as a similar it could be just
kind of thought it could be just spot
intersections or it could be different
segments and full reconstruction it's
just what's needed for the road all
right thank you good job thank
you commissioner
marman thank you madam chairman a good
presentation Nathan thank you on the
Thompson P Parkway that second bridge
it's not in the list yes that's a bond
that's a bond project right now we're
under design so we are going to put that
in sooner than the Legacy one okay how
do grants fit into all
this um where for the Count's 30% the
city's
30% I don't believe we've used grants to
match our 30% I don't know of any grants
that we can apply for that would would
work for that we can look into that um
the closest example I have for us kind
of working the funding in a way that we
don't just use local sales tax for a 30%
is the Pima from Via Linda
to to mcdal that the srpmic went and got
a Federal grant for the majority of that
work so it kind of shifted all the fun
funding down where the regional funding
kind of became the local match to the
Federal Grant and then our local match
to that became 30% of the design if I
could bring up my slides for Council
real quick you can see that breakdown
but that's that kind of shifted
everything down to where the
the local match of that project was the
regional alcp tax funding so we've done
some things to kind of shift money
around and find ways to
to use different buckets but that was
that's a special situation where they
went and got $50 million of a particular
grant that is for Native American
communities so that really helped us out
by being good neighbors with them uh
otherwise I'm thinking about a grant
that could work with that and maybe if
we if we applied for a grant that was
for an arterial Improvement um saying
that we had a
regional portion to that we could get
the funding that way so it's possible
and we can look into looking for a
Federal grant uh that could Supply us
with a 30% match thank you but that
would be a spot uh a spot-by-spot
situation it wouldn't be a consistent
funding source for us on all these
projects we'd have to do it by Case by
Case by the the particular roadways
thank you
thanks commissioner
CTO um thank you so much for the
presentation um just from previous
experience I'm kind of curious um for
prop 300 and
400 there's I I remember when this was
passed there was the expected income
that was going to be brought uh in and
you know at one point uh we had a
recession in there and so I imagine the
projections didn't meet uh reality for
some of them and I'm just curious how we
handled in the past and uh if if the
projected you know money that's going to
come from this doesn't meet this or
exceeds it um you know or if we have a
boom in the next 20 years or a recession
in the next 20 years what what is what
have we done in the past or what what
would we do uh going forward if uh mag
isn't able to provide you know the
expected the expected monies yes I I
can't speak to what happened during the
recession obviously prop 400 cross the
the recession time frame um I can say
that they are constantly looking at
their cash flows of their tax as well as
us and right now we've gone over the
past four years in a uh pretty historic
uh
inflation uh a boom large amount of
inflation to our construction costs and
they have they've looked to accommodate
those cost increases I know that doesn't
directly answer your question in terms
of of whether the C whether the tax goes
up or down um but they do work with us
on a regular basis on what the projected
uh budget for those projects are and
what Revenue they have for that so when
it came to the the inflations happened
the last four years we have worked
to supplement maybe more with the the
local percent
tax or with moving the region around so
uh there's always the possibility of
cancelling projects res scoping projects
I wouldn't like to say canceling too
much but uh if there's if the if it
warrants it not just based on funding
but based on on that the need is no
longer there uh you can move the money
between different projects and and make
sure that you can fund them so res
scoping of projects as well as
cancelling them
thank you for answering my actual
question rather than the words I used
because yeah it was curious about the
funding and uh yeah
so
um for for number
five there's they on Hayden Road we just
kind of resurfaced it and so when you
say reconstruct I'm uh I'm kind of
curious what what that would actually
involve on there yeah um that would
be uh either curb modifications maybe
new medians we're talking um if there's
any storm water improvements that need
to happen as well as possible new
sidewalks I know that we need probably
all and some of that in that area right
now in that area our lanes are more
narrow than our standard so we would
probably bump out the curbs a little bit
get to our 11t lanes as a standard see
if there's any adjustments to uh the
bike Lanes as well so we're in a very
tight space there so when we're talking
reconstruction we're talking about
actually the um configuration of the
road more than just the surface
treatment we'd obviously come with a new
Surface treatment as well but the timing
of that project would be on most likely
the tailor end of the uh prop 479 or at
least in a way that we wouldn't have
just paved the the road and then gone
and just repaved it again so you know
life lifespan of pavement is 20 25 years
so within the time frame of the alcp
we'll need a new pavement treatment on
Hayden
anyway so these aren't in kind of the I
know you said you haven't done the
stages yet but the these aren't in the
like proposed order these are not in the
proposed order they're alphabetical
right now okay all right um yeah just on
on that one there just from personal
experience uh on on Hayden there there's
no bike Lanes on there and it basically
the road just goes straight up to the
sidewalk and in that section so uh even
just that like just a small like twoof
foot buffer or something uh just from
personal experience with driving and
people right next to there it's it's uh
it's not yeah so I'd like to see that um
the other question I have is uh for
number three as our most expensive item
on there it's riding the roadway it's
uh you know significantly shorter than
uh you know the second most on Scottdale
and I'm just
wondering is it uh from from the
experience at the uh for for the other
roadway we're doing at uh Scott scottdel
and dynamite I know a lot of the cost
there was having to acquire land is that
similar reason why that uh number three
is is so much more expensive than just
about anything else on on the list there
uh it could certainly be right way it
would also be
um widening that roadway out it would be
uh the storm water improvements that are
happening along that roadway uh it's
going to be the
the largest East West roadway up there
so all those factors are coming into
that estimate um as I'm going to
present in the next presentation we want
to do a
preliminary design as well as a new cost
estimate on all of these to look for
those key features which is RightWay
drainage so making them dry Crossings as
well as as the inflation factor that
we've been dealing with we want to make
sure that we look at these estimates and
put some design work on the ground
before we start coming out with
with new estimates um these are what we
put in this is what we asked for we did
some design on that we did some some
scoping of it uh I'd like to see what
are the rightaway needs on the on these
projects to move forward
with thank you so much
thanks thank you commissioner Cardella
thank you maybe I missed it but what
determines the overall total that the
city can get is it just a matter of us
saying we can this is what we can pitch
in for 30% and the county has to match
that with 70 or is there some type of
cap this
so the list that we gave to bag was
longer than this and they they cut us
off at a certain point if are you
familiar with what the cut off was um
Susan chair Miller commissioner Cardella
um thank you for the question I'm not
familiar I Know It This fed into the
regional transportation plan so it may
stay in their plan that full list I'm
not sure but I don't know I think they
tried to balance things throughout the
region so that everything's not too
heavy in one community and not the
others since everyone's paying into that
Regional sales tax but we can find out
yeah that answered it thank you thank
you the thing that they returned back to
us there was a calculation that they had
made about the um necessity and
importance of those projects so there
was a factor they put in including the
distribution amongst all the Regional um
jurisdictions but about every time mag
looks at a Federal Grant or this
Regional stuff they do a calculation of
baying for the buck basically of like
what we're asking for and what the
Improvement is going to be and and that
so there was a threshold there for that
calculation I do remember now
thanks thank you very much and that take
a sip of water and get ready for the
next
presentation the feasibility study and
con C designs for capital
projects thank you
so as we start the CIP process it's a
yearly occurrence for us to to put in
our list of proposed projects into our
CIP including phasing into our alcp
stuff so it's a year round effort by
most of our traffic planning as well as
transport traffic engineering and
transportation planning um staff to
evaluate requests as well as look at
safety needs and concerns along the
roadway to put into a list that we send
over to budget to um prioritize what
will get funded over the year what the
Department's due date is is in October
budget gets um
approved in the next couple months and
it it hits the next fiscal year in July
so we have quite a a long gap between
when we send our final list of projects
and when it finally hits the bug the the
book and hits into the budget so over
the course of now we start hearing
requests and putting it into a list of
projects and scoping it out and getting
preliminary estimates on what those
projects would cost so that we can like
we just talked about with mag having a
cut off where we have a cut off of what
we can fund with both our with our 2%
sales tax our 0 2% sales tax so finat
res so this is in our transportation
action plan to state that fi finat
resources available to meet current and
future Transportation needs so we get a
lot of requests and the list that we
come up with is 30 to 40 to 50 projects
deep and we don't get all the way down
that list so prioritizing it is is very
important to make sure that we're doing
that
appropriately so here's several of the
factors that go into how a project gets
put in as well as how it gets gets uh
prioritized um the most several of the
reasons why it would get prioritized
higher than others would be
the safety or regulatory comp compliant
requirements so if we're matching Ada
that's a very important thing the second
semi most important one is the condition
or maintenance of existing assets one of
the projects at
least one of the proposed projects right
now that is above the funding line is
the
64th Canal wall it is in a state of
repair that could really use the
the improvements along it before it
deteriorates further and becomes an
emergency need so
seeing those conditions of those assets
and being able to go and respond to them
before they become a major concern is
one of the major reasons why something
would be prioritized citizen input is a
key reason as to both why why it's on
the list in the first place as well as
how it can go and shoot up the
list expect expected usage levels is
another one of those key things another
one on the list right now that's
currently above the funding line is the
McCormick Ranch mcor Parkway multi East
path on the south side and we know that
the expected usage based on current
patterns would be high based on people
crossing before they even get to the
light Regional connection connection to
Regional Networks is very important um
new development so if a new development
is coming in with inl fees and we can
use the utilize those those uh fees that
we get from a new development and put in
an asset that we need uh we'll be happy
to to see that go up that also comes
with a conversation about the regional
funding as well as Federal funding so if
we're able to use more Federal and
Regional funding that's a reason why a
project would go up um
Sam Taylor over at the table right now
he applied for an agip grant for
Camelback and Goldwater that was
approved and that's now on the the the
proposed projects for this fiscal year
coming up in July that's because um the
majority of the project would be funded
by the Federal grant where we only have
to bring in a small portion that's a
really useful tool to use and a reason
why it would also be brought up in the
list as well as um so one of the things
that was added for the transportation
action plan was expansion of non Auto
Options so one of the factors that we
wanted to also start looking at they
weren't necessarily getting funded to
the same level as on Street Network so
the tap looked to add non-auto options
as uh factor into looking at why things
would be funded so I just showed this
and so I can show it again to say here
are the two funding sources that we're
working off of the 2% sales tax and the
1% sales tax what I'll say differently
about this as opposed to the previous uh
presentation I just gave is that when
we're doing our CIP projects and our
prioritizations we have our own
dedicated funding sources whereas other
people are scrapping it out in the
general fund um having their projects be
competing against say Parks is competing
against police or or
um any of the other departments are
looking to it is competing against
police too so so two very different uh
types of projects are being evaluated
and seeing how they're effective in this
is we don't have to worry about that we
have our own dedicated source so
Transportation projects are being
compared to other Transportation
projects it makes it very helpful for us
to just know we have our dedicated
Source we know how much Capital funding
will happen in the fiscal year and so we
we can just see which Transportation
projects can can move up the 1% sales
tax is as I just stated uh it doesn't
have that same level of of priorization
it's used only for the alcp match so
it's going to be just funning its alcp
match and doing its own thing um
currently we have in the CIP uh 41% of
our projects are locally funded or of
all of our projects um our funding is
41% local funds 26% federal grants and
33% Regional funds so I think we're
doing a pretty good job of making sure
that the majority of our funding is
coming from outside sources and we're
getting more projects done and and
getting an expending the network further
because we're going for these federal
grants and we're using these Regional
funds to improve our
Network going back to how we progress
through this budget cycle is um about
November this is the dates from last
year so they vary but they're generally
the same around November the budget
kickoff happens which means we're
looking to have our stuff in before
that then we have the open database uh
for the operating sorry so then around
the fall we have our open database where
we put in our information um starting in
December budget starts reviewing those
requests it starts going through the the
various committees starting in the in
the spring uh The Five-Year plans are
finalized around right now and then they
start going for adoption coming in March
uh it's released and the presented
proposed budget comes around April
tenative adoption is May and then the
final adoption
is is in um June to then hit the fiscal
year in July 1st
when one thing that uh helps us fill out
that list is the tap implementation
section so we have a list of all of the
running projects that we need to to run
with so along with resident requests
Regional projects and safety
improvements that tap implementation
section has all the list of projects
going over for the next 20 years that
that need
to be finished and is our guiding source
for projects that we need to to
accomplish when we used to do how we do
estimates now and how we are kind of
working on our estimates it's created
over months between that time frame that
I was talking about now until August I
mean October to to put in a scope and
and the proposed uh
estimate this is done before the design
starts and we don't necessarily have the
understanding of what's Happening
currently on the roadway Network we
don't know what the rideway concerns are
we don't know what the storm water
concerns are or the utility concerns are
this is seemed to um
impact us when it comes to how we've
estimated projects and especially in the
last couple years when inflation has
gone so high so before we have the we
have done before we've done any design
we don't know what rway Acquisitions are
needed utility relocations Scopes slopes
and grades storm water needs Geotech
issues pavement assessments and final
cost final design cost all of this has
come to us in the last four years in in
certain
projects um one of
the one of the key examples is the 77th
emergency access project this is a
important project we got Federal funding
before design was done um that funding
was for a construction of a
street that would go right where you see
that project area so putting a street
back there that would connect um over to
Hayden and 77th and give that secondary
access the issue that's being addressed
here is in that red uh box is the only
way into the
community when it floods as you can see
it's in the big flood area for the Anyan
wash they are blocked out of their
houses and emergency vehicles cannot get
in there they've been requesting this
and we definitely need to to facilitate
a secondary access
point it was the Federal funding was
requested in order to put in that
roadway as we started doing preliminary
designs we realized that a roadway would
not fit
in that area so we we
we we were asked by Capital project
management to cancel the project and go
with and uh go for additional funding we
looked at Alternatives that could
facilitate that emergency access as well
as keep the funding we came up with an
option that we would do an a multi-use
path wider than our normal multi-use
paths and graded for vehicles that would
allow for when a flooding is event is
occurring we can open that up for
vehicle movement but be closed for the
rest of the years so that it could a go
along with our multiuse path options in
this area but also
to um be used for that emergency
access if we
had when we went for the federal funding
we realized that we did not have enough
funding to do the roadway project and it
didn't fit in the first place if we
could have done preliminary design
before going forward with the federal
funding we would have been able to know
that and known to go for the appropriate
amount of funding that would have been
for a both the um the amount of funding
that we needed and and the appropriate
design that was needed we put an
additional million dollars of local
sales tax into this project to
accommodate this need over the the
Federal
Grant and then the cap Canal project is
another one where we didn't
know the sloping situation that was
happening on the project it slopes
towards the canal as you go out there
and you look at it it's very flat it
seems appropriate but without
preliminary designs we didn't know that
once we started getting design work done
we found that the slopes were going to
need to be adjusted in order to put the
the multiuse path in so these are the
kind of situations that are happening
that after during our
current process for putting a project
into the CIP we will come up with
these obstacles to the project that
weren't necessarily found out when we
were doing initial scoping of the
projects um as well as inflation has
come up several times when it comes to
to when we move forward with a project
over the last four years we've seen a
substantial amount of inflation on all
the stuff that goes into our roadway
projects seeing that um all these
factors are coming in that Earth work is
up 230% in the region as well as asphalt
105% concrete payement
153% drainage 75% structural concrete
126% all comining to to double our our
costs on several of our major roadway
projects um so we're looking at an
effort to do a feasibility and
preliminary design
effort that we we fit into our current
CIP request timeline so we can get some
preliminary designs
into action before we go for a final
estimate request with
councel that would be so feasibility
studies are first so we did add an
increase to um the operating bud budget
so that we could go out to some of our
on calls and some of those projects that
are in the the implementation section we
want to figure out how feasible they are
for us to do so we can make kind of a is
this possible are there fatal flaws on
that project that won't allow it to go
forward so trying to look at
Alternatives as well as the possibility
of putting that project together and a
preliminary a a more accurate estimate
on on how much it's going to cost for us
to do that so that would be before we
try and adopt it into the CIP working
out through our operating budget through
our other
um other services funding to to put some
design on paper and get an estimate
based on like we saw before whether
there's obstacles in the existing
conditions that would limit our our
ability to provide that need in the
future and then we'd also have a
document in place that allows us to show
and and reference back in several
condition several situations Al in the
community we get a the same request
multiple years over over the span of
time where the same request is coming in
and again and
again it's important for us to have some
documentation on why that isn't moving
forward and whether and what are the the
problems associated with moving that
Improvement forward so that we can relay
that back to both Council and the
residents that we would like to help and
this is we understand your need but
here's the problem so anything can be
moved forward right it's just a matter
of how much funding is it going to take
and what are the obstacles in our way to
move it forward having a documentation
that relays that would be helpful in in
moving in making sure that we relay that
information over that's what that would
allow us to
do so as I said just now answering the
reoccurring request from residents
projects with preliminary design
Alternatives that can stay stay on file
for use and more information to council
when determining approval of projects so
they've been asking for more more
information we're more than willing and
wanting to give it to them in in forms
of actual design and an estimate based
on the obstacles that are in the
roadways conceptual designs would be
somewhat different in terms of we get
requests that are just going to go into
the CIP for various reasons um we only
have a certain amount of money for
feasibility studies so if a CIP requ is
going to go forward we'd like
to we get our preliminary scoping an
estimate and we've done this in this
request for this fiscal year and we move
it forward that we were only going to
put in the CIP the funding for the
design not the construction yet and then
work towards getting 15% designs to
understand what the rideway what the
storm water needs are with the utility
coordination is what are the obstacles
on that project and then putting an
estimate after we've done design work
after we've found those obstacles so we
can get a better estimate this is also
going to allow city council to have a
second approval for that project so um
as I said we work from the beginning of
the calendar year to about October doing
estimates and scoping of projects we
will do that with actual design work and
design money on something that has been
approved and hopefully work towards we
can get 15 % designs and a new estimate
that we would put into the approval
process the upcoming
October that would allow for us to move
all the funding towards both
construction into the project and then
have Council allowed to basically have
two approvals so they can see the need
of the project and then the next time
coming up see the true or as close to
the true cost of the project as possible
understanding that we only have certain
amount of design work done at 15% you
know
definitely more things come up as we go
to 60 and 90 but it's a little bit more
of a background that will allow us to
have a cleaner estimate and show what
the the the problem is especially when
we come to these these inflation costs
that we've been seeing maybe we'll be
able to show the rideway needs or the
utility needs account for the inflation
and be able to show the cost and and
avoid what we've been seeing on the alcp
where we come back time and time again
showing the increase that has been
happening in the region that's not a
Scotsdale thing um the entire region has
seen the inflation based on the
construction costs but we're trying to
mitigate that as much as possible when
it comes to these conceptual designs so
when prop 479 is starts getting
implemented into our CIP we'll look to
do these kind of uh preliminary designs
to make sure that we look for both the
RightWay the storm water needs and the
utilities um we are doing this currently
right now with two the two biggest
remaining prop 400 alcp projects
Scottdale from dixileta to carefree and
then Pima from Los padus up to Stage
Coach where we have two design firms
working at doing exactly this finding
all of those um costs that could be
associated with the project that that so
they could lay it all out for us and see
exactly how much it's going to cost for
us to finish those
projects so with that um any questions
on what we're trying to
do thank you so much for that
presentation questions
Commissioners questions commissioner
CTI thank you so
much um again that was uh answered a lot
of questions that I had but I had a
couple um the end here so the
the main question that I was that I was
thinking
is all I didn't hear you say do you for
for the initial estimates uh do you give
a range or do you give like a solid
number it seemed like you give a solid
number it's a solid number and yeah
sorry please go yeah I was just going to
say and it's it's it's done off good
work I'm not trying to diminish it in
terms of of we we sit down with our
civil engineering crew as well as our
estimators and we we lay out what we're
trying to do what the scope of the
project is where it's at what is the the
effected area and what is the general
our general known in that area that just
unknowns always pop up and and we're
just trying to avoid those so so they've
given us good numbers and and and they
have done a really good job for us this
will just make their life easier as well
as
ours I I guess um so the the question I
guess I would have on that um because I
you know like I said I've seen the city
work I know that everybody here works as
hard as they can give gives the most
accurate numbers but uh they they tend
to or at least when I come to the city
council meetings there always seems to
be an increase happening um and you know
like like you said there unknown things
there's things that happen that shock
and all that uh is there any thoughts of
being arranged like we think it's going
to be 15 million but given past
experience it could could rise to as
much as 30 or if uh or if they can work
faster than expected it might be 13
million or something like that is is has
there been any talk about doing a range
just so just so there's more of a
anticipation of in the future when when
we know more so so on all of our
projects we have a contingency so that
would be that range that you're talking
about where we give a fixed number but
then we have a contingency at the bottom
of the project that's we're not hoping
to spend but but it gives us that that
flexibility to to work into that
contingency uh right now we start with a
20% contingency on projects and then
it's supposed to whittle down as we get
to construction and we have more
assurity of the projects um with the
inflation cost that we've seen the last
four years it's just not been even close
to enough uh We've as the region has
seen we've we've seen projects go from
$23 million to $53 million um with just
the
just the construction alone so um so
yeah we do have that range with that
with that contingency and we work that
in if we increase that it's just a
matter of it would give us more
flexibility more of a range we would do
less projects right because we would be
adding more contingency into one project
that would have us give us less funding
that could be approved in a fiscal year
that would limit the amount of projects
we can do in a year okay so it's just a
balancing act of conservative estim
versus projects that we can
do yeah I think the the main thing I I
guess I would just uh yeah uh just maybe
maybe for foreground that like this is
what we think uh but it could go as much
as 20% more and just make that a little
more uh I guess i' I'd be interested in
seeing a little bit more of a less
conservative I guess estimate uh of how
much they they cost uh but uh from what
you're talking about the funding then
that would mean that maybe we only
proposed five instead of six or seven
projects but well this would be
hopefully allow us to come less to
council asking for Budget increases
because we've put some pen to paper and
and know a little bit more of those
unknowns that's that's the goal to avoid
is to less less times of standing up at
this Podium um it's okay it's not
pleasant to be up here when when you're
asking for the cost increase sure I
appreciate you safeguarding our uh taxes
so absolutely thank you thank
you thank you any other
questions um one question
so you take this to 15% design so you
have fewer unknowns that you can uh you
can get the cost down a little bit
closer but you still have unknown
inflation so there will still be
surprises potentially at the end of this
so no absolutely we we won't have a
perfect number but um my two
examples hopefully show what we're
trying to alleviate we would have known
about the slopes on the cap if we would
have done the 15% design they they would
have done the grading they would have
not the grading they would have done the
survey they would have shown us that
they showed us that in the 15% plan so
we would have known that at that point
um so certainly not a perfect number if
we go to that level but maybe a little
bit closer
well I think it's very handy to um give
Council the opportunity to keep in keep
track of these costs as they potentially
go up as well yeah so well thank you
thank you very much
thanks next up Susan conu pathway
finding signage
update I got to lower this microphone
quite a bit to my short height
good
evening get my notes ready I have a
brief update for you tonight I'm I'm
Susan conu senior Transportation planner
and I do have a brief update on the
pathway finding signage uh since our
last update to you all was February 15
2024 some background about the way in
signage program on our paths the 2008
Transportation master plan bicycle
element recommended adding wayfinding
signage for our paths as well as unpaved
trails and we received consistent
feedback from the the league of American
bicyclists every four years with our
what's now called a report card when we
apply for the bicycle friendly Community
program uh feedback to also add way
finding signage for people and they
include recommending it on uh on Street
routes as well for bikeways this project
began in
2011 we put together test signage that
was uh really done inhouse through
intern Pro uh projects as well as staff
and those were installed in 2013 along
the Indian Ben wash path from melops to
I believe we went all the way up to
about 902nd in Shay area and the two
pictures up above show you a little bit
of the scale and what the what those
signs looked like at the town at that
time and then we received quite a bit of
feedback on um on what those looked like
as well as the content and just overall
appearance from the Transportation
Commission as well as paths and trails
sub uh subcommittee back then so we
made a new project to hire Design
Consultants and this was done in 2016
utilizing Gavin and Barker that were our
um on call designers as well as jrc
design as their subc consultant that had
significant signage experience on all
types of paths trails and in many
different communities what you see in
the lower photo is the mockups that they
put together but I wanted you to see a
little bit the difference in scale
between the initial pilot project as
well as um the mockups that they
designed that one was more of um little
bit larger than what we ended up with
but it was kind of a more kiosk type
entry in Parks which would have been
used sparingly there was significant
public Outreach throughout the design uh
we brought multiple times to
Transportation
Commission p and Trail subcommittee
Parks and Recreation Commission as well
as taking those mockups to the public at
events like cycle the Arts um some out
in the field open houses where you know
find people where they already are and
see what they think and get their
feedback as well as we had these on
display at the one Civic Center Atrium I
want to say for six months maybe for
anyone from the public that was in and
then we created a project website in
summer of 2021 and then went back to a
development review board for amended
approval of the sign package and
guidelines and designs in September
2021 and an important thing to note on
the feedback that we did get we got a
lot of comments from people wanting some
types of path rules path different laws
included in the signage that wasn't
originally um included until the um
design was being completed and then they
added that in there we did basic that on
feedback from the public as well as the
most common infractions that are um
observed from a lot of different city
staff the project area was included from
uh melops to Indian Ben Road which is
basically um considered southern
Scottdale and and U that would be the
Indian Ben wash path Puma path Arizona
Canal path and Crosscut Canal
path we did receive funding in the
fiscal year 2020 2021 Capital
Improvement program um I think that was
our third attempt so you heard in the
previous presentation about when lists
are submitted and even the first year
that it was submitted I think it was a
really high priority for the city
manager at the time and it still as it
goes through all the different reviews
against all the other Transportation
requests you can see where that
sometimes takes a little bit of time so
so the first phase was planned through
this section and then uh the designs and
locations were pretty set but we did
decide to make the canals and Puma path
more of a phase two for
implementation and uh then another small
change we made was at the time there was
a uh Indian Ben wash Parks master plan
from melops to thas Road and since we
weren't quite sure how those areas would
change and the impact that that would
have on the path we chose to wait to do
any installation of signage through that
section until there's Future Park
improvements and then anything to the
north of Indian Bend was looked at as
even farther out into the
Future these are some images of the sign
types including directional signage on
the left sometimes those would include
distance to those destinations and
sometimes if you're close it's more just
directions where you're at a decision
making point we also have the next sign
is um park identification signage as you
enter all the different ways to get into
the parks H up above is uh underpass as
well as Bridge signage and then this
really giant one is actually the
smallest sign we have but it's a path
identification sign that's something you
would probably
see somewhat frequently frequently just
so that you know you're on the city
path Within These sign types as I said
it also includes the bridge and
underpass Crossings and then important
for tonight especially is the safety and
policy information signage the uh let me
back up real quick just to go back to
our original sign so where I'm all
excited there pointing up the sign
that's at the top in that photograph we
modeled that a after our Brown unpaved
Trail signage those have been around for
a pretty long time we tried to use the
same Graphics but what you can't maybe
see on that tiny image is there's a
white regulatory information with black
and red that says no motorized vehicles
and it cites the code there was a lot of
confusion from the public about what
that means once we in 2018 updated what
can be on the paths like class one and
two uh electric bicycles and standup
scooters and we were receiving a lot of
feedback over the last few years from
People based on some of that um
conflicting
information
so we were glad to have these yellow
Regulatory and path rule signage package
with different pieces of information and
the intent was that you would probably
see these pretty frequently maybe every
quarter mile or eighth of a mile along P
the path um maybe a different message on
you know backtack signage and kind of
just help repeat the messages of these
com
issues that we see between
users so the process for phase one
included uh transportation and capital
project management staff to coordinate
together and with uh the contractors
that included field verification of all
the locations that had already been
mapped out by the designers uh
confirming sign types and then the
content all the things that would go on
those those signs we did as you
sometimes find out in the field we found
changes needed to be made adjustments in
things then we started working through
the job order contract with Valley rain
construction and their subcontractor
which is Sierra signs and Service uh
they put together a submitt back to us
maybe 50 pages of every sign what it
would look like all the specs for us to
review and go through changes and then
um once we did that they once they got
the okay back from City staff they began
Fabrication in Fall
2023 and from December 2023 to January
2024 we went out all together uh staff
and the contractors to mark all these
locations in the field and yet again
make more adjustments sometimes we
noticed something that we had never
caught before that needed a sign and so
we were sometimes creating a new
location with some new content and you
kind of get into a Perfection when
you're out there but when I'm when
you're looking at signs that could last
maybe 15 years with a normal life cycle
you want to make sure you really get it
right so we learned a lot throughout
this process in all of that background
work that's needed before you get to
this point which is then utility marking
double-checking what's out there
thinking of things like oh is this a
path that we're planning to widen in the
next few years then we probably need
even more clearance to the side um from
the sign clearance to the edge of the
concrete but they did begin installation
and late January 2024 this included 200
signs on over seven miles of path so
from uh Thomas Road up to Indian Ben ro
road including some of the places where
the the path is on both sides of Hayden
Road they also removed the old signage
at the same time throughout this project
area and we completed a final
walkthrough together to double check
make just a few Corrections um that was
nothing major but there was a few
changes that needed to be made at that
time so that brings us to where we are
now which the next steps we have is to
map and inventory those completed signs
including photos for our files and then
the phase two that we're already
beginning the next areas for signage are
on Arizona Canal Crosscut canal and Puma
Path South of Indian Ben Road and uh to
look at the remaining budget and make an
additional budget request if needed
under that CIP uh number and then the
future phases further out we would look
at Indian Ben wash path and Puma Path
North of Indian Ben Road um we already
get requests for signs up around Horizon
Park area 96 Street Cactus um some of
those areas I'm sure they could use wave
finding signage now for anyone that's
not as familiar with the path there so
we will we will priori ize those
accordingly and then we do receive
citizen requests related to path user
Behavior as well as on Street user
Behavior but a a more recent follow-up
request that we received from a resident
involves ebike Riders on Arizona Canal
path between Camelback and chapparel
Road uh it's one of the things we've
been wanting to include in our signage
and other messaging to the public is
that even though you can ride certain
motorized devices on the Indian Ben wash
path and neighborhood paved paths
they're prohibited on Canal property
that's you know land owned by the Bureau
of Reclamation they've given uh
clarified guidance out to everyone in
the region that you we that they do not
allow ebikes stand up you know electric
or sit down uh scooters so we have new
signage that you can see on the right
that's a little different than what is
on the Indian Ben wash that one says no
motorize vehicles or devices on Canal
property and all users yield to
pedestrians we don't want too much text
because you know you don't want to
distract people and you don't want them
to ignore something but we want to
balance getting the right information
out to people especially because it's
different depending on where a person is
riding so at this time based on the
feedback we've received in that part of
the canal um segment we will be
installing 12 signs in seven locations
so we're really looking at the including
the unpaved bank where there's Trail
looking at as you enter off of streets
as well as any of the links from
multifam um developments that are along
there where there's a public
neighborhood connection or an alley
connection and we do have preliminary
approval from SRP that's one more layer
that will be involved with this next
phase including this location that's
expedited but I believe these are being
fabricated now and our next step is to
go back go out in the field together
Mark that do the utility locations check
back with Salt River Project to make
sure that these are in fact okay
locations because they're they're a
utility they definitely need to have
clearance for their large trucks and
then excuse me we anticipate
installation for these this spring a
ahead of the oh excuse me ahead of the
other um sections of canals in the city
those will probably happen later this
summer additional efforts that are
existing are
underway that we communicate out
whenever we receive requests from people
like the resident along Arizona Canal is
that the Scottsdale Transportation
safety plan has kicked off or we'll be
working with the public on that we we we
always give information about what our
current regulations are they they have
not changed since 2018 but we always
want to make sure people know where you
can find that information on the website
and what um what that involves we talk
about on Street Bikeway improvements
since a lot of the concerns we hear
about from the public are related to the
speed of a device it's not always what
the device is but a lot of times those
are connected so we we mentioned how on
street bike improvements connected to
the off Street system are crucial
because you have people that do want to
ride faster they feel comfortable riding
faster but they would probably be be
better off using that on Street Network
compared to a path where you have all
different ages abilities Ducks dogs
everything uh disc golf players
sometimes people are standing around on
the path in busy areas and that just
doesn't make sense for those speeds and
then other ongoing Outreach
that you we have a two-sided brochure
that will be delivered to bike shops and
community centers with ebike information
that Christina Linko our public
information officer LED that effort to
get those completed and um that will
help also with any bike shops that we
don't already have a relationship with
where they either rent or sell electric
bicycles to the public and there's also
public engagement through our Police
Department we do have dialogue and
conversations and meetings with them
about what we're working on and and what
they're doing they've done some separate
Outreach especially to Middle
School uh age users and neighborhoods
and uh we'll we'll we will
stay informed on what they're working on
so that we're not duplicating efforts
and then we also as planners and
engineers in our department we want to
look at the usage look at what is the
writer data showing in these areas where
we're hearing the most concerns
including other areas it maybe we're not
hearing about it in an area where it's
still occurring but what we'd like to
see is how frequent are these um are
people riding an ebike what look it's
usually it's somewhat easy to spot an
ebike based on whether they're pedaling
at all or if they're pedaling a very
relaxed pace but that bike is going very
fast it's kind of the the effort related
to the speed that it's going and how how
many we would like to see how many
people are doing this how frequently and
if there's any other patterns in this
behavior that we can see especially in
this section of the
path and then uh we will continue taking
feedback from the public and looking at
if other signs need to be added things
adjusted as well as uh social media type
messaging that we're already wanting to
do for the public any question
[Music]
questions thank you Susan thank you any
questions from the
commission Vice chair will
ccken thank you chairwoman Mil Miller
and thank you Susan for the presentation
it was uh pretty informative as always
um I had a couple of questions though um
I remember there was a uh an effort a
number of years ago uh within the mag
region to make sure that the signs the
wayfinding signs were consistent from
one jurisdiction to the other and you
know like on Indian wash it probably
doesn't matter as much as it might on
the Arizona Canal where you go from the
city of Scottdale to the City of Phoenix
and presumably Beyond um are there any
efforts a foot that coordinate what the
signs look like from one jurisdiction to
the
other thank you chair Miller advis chair
will coxen I do remember that uh that
was their Valley path branding and
signage which I've seen it Implement
implemented in I I know I've seen them
in Mesa and parts of Phoenix uh we were
kind of on a parallel track back then
TimeWise so I I recall saying well
should we wait and not do what we were
going to do we decided to go ahead and
move forward with Scottsdale's sign
package um I want to make sure I'm
understanding your question though are
you wanting to know if there's
coordination between City of Scottsdale
and looking at what our neighboring
cities are doing with that Valley
pathway signage from mag or just within
Scottdale or
both no my main question really is
consistency just like when you go from
Phoenix to Scottdale to
Tempe um street name signs are generally
going to look the same uh yield stop um
you know left turn signs are all the
same and they're all federally regulated
I know that these are not however um it
does provide some consistency for
drivers and in this case bicyclists or
pedestrians who are on these different
Pathways and I was just wondering if
there was any if there was any
coordination uh I'm not expecting you to
take them down or anything but uh if
there was any coordination and it sounds
like that original project that I
remember was has gone through it's just
that it's not adopted in Scott still
thank you that that's correct we uh and
they were very uh they did keep the
what's now called the active
Transportation uh committee at mag back
then it was the bicycle and pedestrian
committee very involved throughout
development of that sign those sign
guidelines um I believe if we were going
to put more of those larger kiosk type
signs that we mocked had mocked up by
our designers
we wanted to include uh mag's the logos
along with some other things like
Maricopa Trail mag Valley path as well
as Arizona um
that Statewide Trail as well and Sun
Circle Trail we just didn't go any
further with the development but I would
say that the methodologies with both of
the sign types and packages were quite
similar the appearance is different but
what types of signs were developed as
well as what kind of information that
you're trying to put together was quite
similar but a very different looking
result including dimensions of the the
signs themselves I think theirs are a
little bit
smaller okay um yeah I'm just um worried
about consistency thank you um the other
uh the other question I had was more of
a comment um and I I know this because
it came up in my day job um the sign
height on on the uh the new signs you're
going to be put up um 5 foot to the
bottom of the sign you may want to
consider adjusting that upward um the um
street signs have a a range of five to
seven feet and the concern there is that
someone not paying attention might walk
into them or bike into them and
especially since they are on Pathways
where people are going to be walking and
biking it might be better to push that
to the H upper end of the limit of about
seven feet off the ground just to avoid
someone walking into them and getting
injured okay thank you and that graphic
might have been outdated because that is
one of the bigger adjustments we made in
the field based on traffic engineering I
think we did go up to 7 feet with the
closest Edge minimum 3 feet away but
I'll double check I think some of the
very small narrow ones might have stayed
a little lower yeah I think if you can
uh just follow what the manual on
uniform traffic control devices suggest
or requires for um RightWay would okay
it would probably be more than fine
thank you thank you one thing you just
reminded me of too is at first I thought
seven feet once they were out there I
realized how much more visible they were
at that higher de or higher clearance as
well as you'd have to have a really tall
person on a really tall bike to get
close but I also thought it might make
it harder to have people put stickers on
them but I'm sure some kids like the
added challenge of trying to get up that
high and and tag things so we have we
have the technology now yeah so yeah
thank you thank you um chair Miller and
vice chair will coxon I just had a
thought on the consistency of the signs
um you know I I think there is some
benefit uh just to having different
signs for Scottsdale just because of the
different regulations between the
different cities that apply to these
trails
um you know if you see the same sign in
Phoenix and then you cross over to
Scottdale and you see the same sign but
the text says something slightly
different you know you might not really
realize that oh now I'm not allowed to
use a type a class to ebike or something
like that so that's just a thought I
had thank you thank
you Commissioners commissioner
Kaa thank you um just to follow up on uh
Vice chair W coxon's question about uh
the regional signs do are we do you know
is Phoenix active Phoenix and Tempe are
are they actively putting up any signs
like uh on the Arizona Canal path or the
Crosscut path or they so we're going to
put up signs to our border and then
there won't be signs anymore is or are
we coordinating with them so that a uh
so that they continue to you know so
when we put up the signs they'll put up
the
signs thank you chair Miller
commissioner cile I'd have to check with
them I I you try to stay involved in or
aware of what's Happening closest to
Scottdale I know where I've seen the
ones in Phoenix was a little farther
away it was up near uh Paradise B the
former Paradise Valley Mall area on some
of their bike ways we do check when
there's a new project happening close to
our city boundary or right up to the The
Edge I just don't recall what I've seen
along the
canal so we'll find
out um and then I just wanted to uh give
uh all all of you uh Kudos on the
language for this uh for this right here
uh I really like the 20 m hour 28 M hour
instead of saying class one class two
class three talking to people it seems
like just your average person even
people with ebikes don't know what kind
of uh what kind of bike they have and so
to have just something more s rather
than you know more more uh yes the the
simple language there and then uh manual
bike I've never actually described them
that way uh I've always either used a
meat bike or uh acoustic so um um I
think both I think manual probably
causes Le less confusion as well so
thank you thank
you thank you so much acoustic bike I
will I will remember that thank you so
much Miss coner thank
you and that concludes our agenda thank
you so much for your
presentations uh Kyle lren thank you so
much for all of your support of this
committee and with that I will will take
a motion to
adjourn I so
move do we have a
second
second we have a motion and a second to
adjourn all in favor say I I any
opposed thank you so
much for