City Council | Special Meeting and Possible Executive Session - April 8, 2025

Good afternoon. At this time, I'd like
to call the April 8th, 2025 special
meeting and possible executive session
of the Scottsdale City Council to order.
City Clerk Ben Lane, please conduct the
ro roll call. Thank you, Mayor. Mayor
Lisa Barowski, present. Vice Mayor Dandy
Debos present. Council members Barry
Graham Barosman
Kathy Littlefield here. Marian McCallen
present and Salange Whitehead here.
Interim city manager Greg Kaitton here.
City attorney Sher Scott here. And the
clerk is present. Thank you mayor. So
generally speaking as always uh the
executive session is reserved to discuss
and consider employment assignment
appointment promotion and compensation
and benefits of a permanent city
manager. I shouldn't say as always
because this is specific and employment
matters relating to the city manager's
office or discuss and consider its
potential its position and instructs its
city attorneys regarding the public
body's position on contracts that are
the subject of employment
negotiations or discuss and consult with
the city's attorneys for legal advice
and necessary city staff regarding the
employment ment, assignment,
appointment, and compensation and bene
benefits of a city manager or discuss
and consult the city attorneys uh and
designated representatives of the city
to consider legal advice related to
recently introduced state legislation
that will impact the city's multifamily
residential hotel and industrial land
uses. So before I entertain a motion,
can you be more specific? I understand.
Uh let's take them separately because
there are two items for consideration in
executive session. Uh one is the um
appointment of the city manager I
believe and the second one is the
SB543. Is that correct Sher Scott?
That's correct. But we're really rather
than specifically um mentioning the
Senate bill number, it's just legal
advice related to recently introduced
state legislation that will impact the
city's multifamily residential, hotel,
and industrial land uses. It's a little
more broad. So taking that item, I have
a question about that. Are we contempl
are we involved in p pending litigation
regarding that or is this the
contemplation of litigation related to
that issue? We are not involved in any
pending litigation. So is it regarding
the contemplation of litigation?
It allows the council to discuss
contemplation of litigation.
Receive legal advice. You mean it allows
the council to receive legal advice and
the count that legal advice could be
related to potential litigation?
Certainly. Okay. And uh can you also
speak to uh the issue involving the city
manager
appointment? Why that needs to be
subject to an executive session?
Mir, it is an allowed executive session
topic under the state's open meeting
law. I'm aware. So, with that, I would
like to make a motion to uh have the
city manager appointment discussion
reserved in the uh open session or have
that uh withdrawn from executive session
and have that right now in open session.
Does anyone want to second that? If I
may, mayor, you you you would not be
able to
have an open meeting item on this
matter, the city manager's um potential
appointment at 4:00 because our regular
meeting is scheduled for 5:00. You do
have an item on uh for your regular
meeting where that could be discussed
on the general on this on the regular
meeting. On the regular meeting. Yes,
I'd like to do that. I don't see any
second. Does anyone want to do that as
well?
I and the basis for my motion is uh we
have an interim city manager, Greg
Kaitton, who is being considered for a
permanent appointment. I believe the
residents of Scottsdale should be
availed to those discussions just like
it would be in an interview situation if
we were down to the final uh candidates,
which has in my experience been the
case. And I take um exception with the
fact that we need to do this behind
closed doors. I am not in favor of this
at all. I think that if we're having a
legitimate interview here, which will um
which will alleviate or do away with our
responsibility to do or preddecided
responsibility to do a national search.
I believe it's incumbent upon us to be
uh transparent and have those
discussions in full view of our public.
Madame Mayor, may I make a
motion? Uh, I didn't see a second. Does
anyone have a second for mine?
Mayor, I just have a I just have a
question for you. I just have a question
about the about your motion. So, so I'm
confused if Go ahead. Okay. So, my
question my just my question just is
that is the normal what is the standard
and norm for the city of Scottsdale? So
without any
hyperbole clearly there's disagreement
on the nature and extent of the hiring
fine open and honest in front of
everybody right however what is the norm
in the city of Scottsdale is it going
into executive session with and any
charter officer the the um the city
manager the city attorney otherwise
right because we could play this game
for everybody right so is the norm go
into executive session hash it out in
executive session come up with a
contract positively or negatively then
vote on it at in the general session or
is the norm to hash out the the sausage
out here. I'm okay with both. So either
way, I'm totally fine with it, but I
just want to follow the calm normal
standard practice of Scottsdale. It's a
great question and while there probably
isn't a norm, there's a state statute
that speaks to this which uh which
allows us to go either way. But I will
note um importantly the norm as
established by this council uh effective
January 14, 2025 was to have this
discussion in open session when it
pertained to former acting city manager
Bill Murphy. So I'm not sure why would
why would we treat this individual, our
current interim city manager, any
different than we would have done then?
So to answer your question, that's our
norm. To that point, Madame Mayor, Bill
Murphy, I believe, resigned prior to the
council meeting if I'm not mistaken. So
may I direct that to to Miss Scott, just
to find out just what the background was
beforehand in terms of the You have to
excuse me. This is my first time on the
council. I just would like to know the
norm of charter officers. Does it and
and not just this city, perhaps you know
of other cities. Does it traditionally
go to executive session first and then
come out here or is it discussed out
here entirely? Again, I'm I am not
decided on the outcome here. I just want
to follow the standard and keep it calm
and regular.
Mayor, I just I just want to speak to
that. Um while he did before you give
any advice here, pardon me. Um while he
did resign prior to his appearance at
the regular session agenda item, it was
scheduled for an open meeting.
Mayor um and Councilman Quasman, there
is no set
uh process. As as the mayor pointed out,
the the open meeting law does allow the
council to move into executive session
to discuss these matters. It has an
exception that for salary discussions,
um an officer or employee may demand
that the discussion occur at a public
meeting. So, it gives the employee the
option of of demanding that the
discussion occur at a public meeting.
Uh, in terms of how the city has done it
with past councils,
um, sometimes there's a a statement
publicly by the applicants applying and
then there's um a convening into
executive session to discuss a potential
appointment in terms of a contract. Um,
and I think that once we're at that
point, if the council's at that point of
wanting to extend a contract and enter
into those discussions, that typically
does happen in executive session before
it is approved in a public meeting.
Madam Madame Mayor, so you're talking I
just want to be very clear. You want to
have a salary discussion, potential
salary discussion in over in in an open
meeting as opposed to in an executive
session. Absolutely not. That's a
specific uh element that is reserved
exclusively as far as I understand
pursuant to the statute uh to the uh
executive session. However, and this is
a question, thank you for bringing that
up. Um do we have a proposed contract?
Are we entering into are we reviewing
the proposed contract today in executive
session? This is for a determination on
whether we
forego the exec executive search.
Correct.
and appoint the interim city manager.
Well, I think the executive session is
written broadly to allow the council to
consider those items. Uh, but there is a
template contract that uh we've been
using for years. That's in the public
materials with a couple of spaces um for
terms that need to be filled in. And
it's up to the council whether or not
the council's comfortable with that
template contract or wants to make
additional changes. Once you if you
reconvene um in executive session and
get legal advice and discuss contracts
that may be the subject of negotiation,
which you are authorized to do. If the
council's not ready to appoint um a city
manager or approve a contract in the
regular meeting, that item can be
continued or otherwise disposed of. Um
so there's a lot of variety for the
council here to uh make its
determination and if the council chooses
not to convene into executive session,
the council certainly has the
opportunity to do that as well.
Madame Mayor,
go ahead. Councilman Graham. Thank you,
Madam Mayor. I would um so we're start
the public is expecting us to start our
regular meeting at 5:00 p.m. We have a
very full executive session. We're
probably going to run past 5:00 p.m. and
we're going to make the public wait for
us. So, I would like to get back into
executive session as expeditiously as
possible. Um, I have been on boards and
commissions since 2014 and I've been on
council for a few years. I've always
seen the terms of these hires um done in
executive session. The last time with
Greg Kaitton interim that was because uh
he was appointed uh interim city manager
by Bill Murphy and then we affirmed that
up here by by by uh vote. So with that,
I will move to expeditiously adjourn um
to um executive session to discuss items
A, B, C, and D. Thank you. Second.
Second.
Before I uh vote, I I'm just lodging my
objection. I think we owe it to the
public to have these discussions with uh
with the council and the acting city
manager and public. Thank you, mayor. If
I could I had my second. I didn't see
that. Sorry. Yes. I'd like to speak to
Barry second.
Um I've been on this council for over 10
years, 10 long
years. And I've seen a number of charter
officers being appointed, being
considered for various
positions, including the city manager.
Um, it's always been in my experience in
a closed exec session where we discuss
these things in private, iron out what
we need to iron out, get our questions
answered. Sometimes we'll bring the a
candidate into the exec session where we
can ask him questions and get his
answers to the concerns that we have and
then he leaves and we go on with con
with our con uh considerations and our
discussions. the terms of the salary and
the compensation has always been in
exact session and I don't remember any
time for any of the charter officers
that it has not been. So I think if you
don't do that you're breaking with the
history and the dutition of how we
handle these kinds of decisions. Thank
you.
Seeing no other comments, please
register your
vote. At this time, we are adjourned to
into executive session. Thank you.