City Council | Regular Meeting - April 8, 2025

Good evening. Uh my apologies for the
delay in getting started. We were in
executive session longer than
anticipated and we've actually uh called
a recess on that executive session and
we will reconvene after this meeting
this evening to finish that business. So
with that, I'd like to call the April
8th, 2025 city council regular meeting
to order. City clerk Ben Lane, please
conduct the roll call. Thank you, Mayor.
Mayor Lisa Barowski, present. Vice Mayor
Jan Debos, present. Council members uh
Barry Graham present. Adam Clausman
present. Kathy Littlefield present.
Maryann McAllen present. And Solange
Whitehead here. Interim city manager
Greg Kaitton present. City attorney Sher
Scott here. City treasurer Sonia Andrews
here. Acting city Laycluff here. And the
clerk is present. Thank you, mayor.
Thank you very much. Uh this evening we
have Scottsdale Police Lieutenant Cara
Copless. I hope I'm saying that right.
and officer Les as well as firefighter
April Jessup. If anyone requires their
assistance, please let a member of the
staff or uh anyone in in that you see in
uniform know. Uh tonight I'd like to ask
uh Councilwoman Slange Whitehead to lead
us in the pledge of
allegiance to the flag of the United
States of
America to
the
stands
nation for all.
Thank you very much. And for tonight's
invocation, I'll turn the floor over to
Councilman Quasman.
Thank you, Madame
Mayor. Rabbi Pinha Saloo is the founding
rabbi of Congregation Beth Tila and the
founding dean and spiritual leader of
Nishatin High School here in Scottsdale,
where he resides with his wife Esther,
his beautiful 10 children. He's a
respected rabbitic figure, a renowned
lecturer, and prominent author of many
essays on Jewish faith, mysticism, and
social criticism. Besides his academic
pedigree, Rabbi Alouch is richly
cultural, having lived in France, where
he was born, South Africa, and Israel.
He's fluent in English, Hebrew, French,
and Italian. Rabbi Luch is a member of
Apex National Council, a member of the
Vad Harabanin, the Orthodox Rebinic
Council of Arizona.
I would not be who I am today without
Rabbi Alouch and I am so unbelievably
grateful to have him here lead us in
prayer. Thank
you. Thank you so much my dear friend
Councilman Quasman. Ladies and
gentlemen, please rise and join me in
reflection.
Master of the
Universe, City
Officials, Honorable Mayor Barasi, and
all those who are convenient to fulfill
one of the seven Noahide commandments,
the commandment to govern by just laws
which are based by the recognition on
the recognition of you, God, as a
sovereign ruler of all people and all
nations. Friends, it is no secret that
we live in divisive times. Thus we ask
you, oh Lord, to teach us at this
faithful moment in the human story, to
honor the dignity of difference,
recognizing that one who is not in our
image is nonetheless in your image,
never forgetting that the people who are
not like us are still people like us.
Bless us indeed with the wisdom and the
recognition that we can disagree without
ever becoming
disagreeable. That we can battle ideas
without ever battling people. And that
our minds can carry differences of
opinions, but only if our hearts are
united as one. The Roosevelt once said,
"It's fine to be alive when great things
are happening." Indeed, it's fine to be
alive at a time of great prosperity and
growth for our communities here in
Scottsdale, Arizona, including our own
Jewish community under your leadership.
And so God, today we pray that you will
continue to guide our honorable mayor
and her entire team, including my dear
friend, Councilman Quasman, so that they
may continue to govern our city and make
it blossom with ears to hear, eyes to
see, hearts to feel, and hands to help
all those in need. fortify them so that
great things can indeed continue to
happen year from strength to strength.
God, we also pray for the immediate and
safe release of all of the hostages
still held in Gaza. May they return to
the embrace of their families
immediately.
protect our brothers and sisters in the
land of my ancestors, the land of
Israel, especially the IDF and US forces
who are courageously fighting a war of
good versus evil against those evil
terrorists who have waged war against
the very foundation of morality and
goodness in our world. Strengthen their
hands, fortify their spirits, and grant
them victory in their righteous
struggle. Today, may I add, we are
honored to be joined by a hero, Jonathan
Ben Kamu. Despite losing his leg in
Gaza, he displayed indomitable courage
and steadfastness by continuing to
fight. His undaunted spirit and unyieldy
yielding resolve exemplify the enduring
bravery and heroism of these courageous
soldiers.
God, we also pray that you
fulfill the prophecy that was so
eloquently said by Moses, our great
teacher, that may it be your will that
the glory of your presence dwell in the
work of our hands indeed may dwell in
the work of the hands of the council man
and woman and honorable mayor may dwell
in the hands of all those dedicated to
do good in our world may dwell in the
hands of each and every one of us so
that we can continue to be your agents
of goodness, your instruments of light
and your ambassadors of healing in our
world. Amen. Thank you.
Thank you,
Rabbi. And uh Councilman Clausman has a
proclamation.
Thank you, Madame Mayor. I really
appreciate um this opportunity. Um this
being
the 123rd
anniversary of the birth of the labrei I
would like to with your with your
permission to read your proclamation. So
absolutely and I want to recognize
before we do the kabad of Scottsdale
that is here Rabbi Levertov as well as
the kabad of South Scottsdale is here.
Any other kabad of Arizona here we have
Okay, good.
Whereas tonight, this April 8th will be
the 11th day of the Hebrew month of
Nissan on the Jewish calendar. And this
night marks the 123rd anniversary of the
birth of the Labavich Rebi, Manaka
Mendel Schneersen of righteous memory.
And whereas Scottsdale, Arizona has the
largest per capita Jewish population in
the state of Arizona. And the Kabad
community continues to celebrate,
educate, and serve Scottsdale's Jewish
residents and visitors in the vision of
the Rebi. And whereas the Rebby changed
the course of American Jewish history by
pioneering Jewish outreach in a world
shattered by the Holocaust and creating
a wildly successful framework for Torah
learning, morality, justice, kindness,
and goodness for all people that
continue this that continues to this
day. Whereas in 1978, the United States
Congress under President Jimmy Carter
designated the annual National Education
and Sharing Day be observed on the
Reby's date of birth on the 11th day of
Nissan in recognition of his outstanding
and lasting contributions toward the
improvement of education, morality, and
acts of charity around the world. And
whereas the National Education Sharing
Day is meant to put greater emphasis on
the promotion of fundamental human
rights and obligation of justice and
morality as well as the importance of
nurturing the heart along with the mind
in so far as that education of our young
people can only succeed if
character and intellect were taught in
equal measure.
Therefore, the mayor, Lisa
Barowski, mayor of Scottsdale, hereby
proclaims April 8th, 2025 as Scottsdale
Education and Sharing Day. In order to
honor the Rebby on this, the 123rd
anniversary of his birth, the city of
Scottsdale stands with its Jewish
community and supports the Reby's vision
for all children to promote justice,
have good character, and promote
kindness to all.
In witness thereof, the mayor would set
her hand and and the and soon with uh
Ben Lane, the clerk, the seal to be
affixed to this document in Scottsdale,
Arizona. With that, thank you very much.
We'd like to uh present this to Kabad of
Scottsdale. Thank you. Thank you for
reading that, Adam.
[Applause]
Happy go.
All right. As and for the mayor's report
tonight, my report, I would like to
extend an invitation
uh to all of you and to all those
listening, the community at large, uh to
attend the upcoming Mayor's Ability
Awards 11:00 a.m. on Friday, uh April
18th. That will take place at Western
Spirit Scottsdale Museum of the West.
New this year, we are presenting an
advocate award along with delivering
scholarships to students in need here in
Scottsdale. The Ability Awards offers
scholarships uh scholarship funds from
our partners at the Hila River Indian
Community, making it possible for
students living with disabilities to
continue their education at a college or
local trade school. And so I hope you'll
all join us there. It should be a nice
event. And in addition to that, I'd like
to uh alert all of you to the fact that
Senate Bill 1543 will be heard tomorrow
morning at 10:00 a.m. uh at which point
it could clear the House of
Representatives and move on to the state
senate. I would encourage all of you to
consider uh contacting your state, all
the state legislators, um senators and
house members uh and and voicing your uh
opposition because it will have a very
detrimental impact on our community as
it uh as it eliminates our ability to um
control uh certain zoning decisions in
our community. It's also known as the
Axon bill. So, I'd encourage you to do
that. Moving right along, and if you
need um help getting in touch with your
state legislators, you can contact
someone at the city, and they'll put you
in touch with my office, the mayor's
office. Tonight, we have a presentation
from Ger Werman, who is the CEO of
Scottsdale Arts. Uh Mr. Westerman is
offering a synopsis of the last six
months of
accomplishments of Scottsdale Arts uh
and the most recent canal convergence
event. Thank you, Ger. Come on up.
Good afternoon, Mayor Baroski, Vice
Mayor Bosquez, council members. Thank
you for the time today to allow me to
present to you my state of the arts in
Scottsdale. We're very excited about uh
this year's set of events once again. Um
as a quick overview, many of you are new
in this role. Scots Arts has grown to
six major business units and more of on
those as we go through the presentation.
But we're also revealing tonight a new
seventh business unit to the
organization. Um in total over the
course of this season, Scots Arts will
present and produce 782 shows,
workshops, exhibits, and events, which
is more than two per day. a pretty
remarkable thing for a small arts
organization. We are at the center in
our 47th season with the gentleman on
the left. He's been with us almost since
the beginning. So, tradition plays a big
role in what we do. We also now have a
resident symphony orchestra at the
center. But we also lean into uh
innovation meeting tradition. In other
words, from Broadway to comedy to dance
to bluegrass, rock and roll and much
more. We present a broad spectrum. As a
result, almost 180,000 people saw shows
this season at the center. more than 226
events. That is an 83% available date
facilitation in use, which is really
remarkable and so puts us in the gold
standard of venues. More than 4,000 free
tickets were given to veterans and
senior citizens across Scottsdale. And
more than uh $150,000 were given in free
or reduced admissions and uh access to
other arts nonprofit um friends and
across the valley. Um, of course, the
center is about to uh celebrate a very,
very big milestone, 50th anniversary,
November 1st. Mark your calendars for
our great, outrageous gayla event
celebrating the center in its 50th year.
At Smoker, we're now in our 26th year.
And Smoker is a very different beast. It
draws a young, dynamic audience with
fresh perspective, often leaning into
tech exploration of contemporary art.
More than 40,000 visitors find their way
into the museum from 40 Arizona cities,
28 states, 13 countries. Remarkably,
over the last year, we were able to
collect 15 new artworks into the state
city-owned collection worth more than
$3.7
million. And we gathered almost $500,000
in federal and national grants for the
museum. How does one activate a small
museum today's age? We have stylish
openings. We have our patented mystery
in the museum, treasure hunt throughout
the museum. We do dance events in
installations and yoga classes in our
galleries. And of course, there's our
worldrenowned sky space by day and by
night, drawing visitors from around the
world to this James Terrell unique
space, Canal Convergence. The mayor was
kind enough to mention this. One of the
great events uh uh in our annual
calendar, 10 days in November. This
year's theme was reflection. Uh more
than 130,000 unique visitors saw the
event. We have an estimated economic
impact to the hotels, bars, restaurants,
etc. of $27 million generated by this
free event to our community. More than
104 workshops, tours, and performances
took place during those 10 days. And of
course, 30 of our patented fire shows.
If you've never been or want a little
taste, here we go.
[Music]
[Music]
and this was filmed on a quieter night,
believe it or not. Um, it's really a
wonderful event. If you've never been,
please join us next year. Uh, in April,
it is cycle the arts time. It is a
fabulous way to explore the incredible
public art collection that the city owns
and we manage on its behalf. There are
cycling tours uh for this year. They're
all sold out, but next year get in the
mix early on. We have 161 major works in
the collection. 30 other pieces in the
uh p private development as well. We
also uh manage a collection of a
thousand portable works that are
displayed throughout city buildings, but
also often shown in our libraries and
community centers, managed by exhibits
we install. The value of the exhibits is
closing in on 30 million. most valued
piece is the love sculpture. Maybe also
most photographed piece valued at 5 a.5
million today. Bought for 250,000 by the
way. Not too bad for the arts, right?
And uh of course, not surprisingly, the
most uh shown subject of our public
artwork are horses in our fountains and
of course this magnificent piece in the
uh green belt. Here's a staggering
statistic. We use Placer ID to track
cell phone pings. And over the course of
2024, almost four million people spent a
minimum of 10 minutes in the vicinity of
these 161 works. Even more staggering,
of the 27 works only visible by car as
you're driving around them, and I know
you're going to talk about roundabouts
later. Hey, we're just installing the
artwork. Uh 465 million people have seen
those pieces. and they may not spend
money in it, but it puts a smile on
their face and adds to our impression as
a beautiful and well-managed city. Some
of our newest works include this
wonderful new screen at a park and u
much more to come. In learning and
innovation, we have increased our uh
involvement by more than 26%. Last year,
37,000 students in our public schools
have been served with more than two
events or programs every day of the
school year. uh and that involved 37
partner organizations and more than 80
teaching artists sent into the schools.
We really put the steam in the A into
into STEM to make it steam. But we also
work with senior centers and senior
populations in lifelong learning and
arts engagement throughout the city. A
partnership with SUSD I think is really
laudable. And uh if you haven't made it
to it yet, we celebrated our third
annual family arts fest at Skyong this
year once again with works from,200
students seen by more than 8,000
visitors representing all schools in our
public school district. It was a
wonderful event. Uh there were lots of
laughters, lots of smiles, and our empty
bowls once again raised tens of
thousands of dollars for the Scottsdale
community partners to make sure that
those less fortunate have a brighter day
as well. We also stand for the other
arts nonprofits in our community. This
year, aided by about a third of this
total fund from the city, we uh tripled
the total amount to give
$178,000 to other arts nonprofits
serving Scottsdale. 21 organization
benefited from that because we believe
that dancing alone is no fun. We're
better when we move together. So this
year we celebrate 117 partnerships,
large organizations to small to to big
organizations across the valley. working
with them really makes us all the
richer. Of course, we're very proud of
Civic Center, our newest addition to the
arts complex here in the heart of
Scottsdale. This season, we are seeing
in our second season 85 events with more
than 165,000 patrons. Again, we use
Place AI to track attendance to free and
ticketed events. Almost every weekend
throughout the season, October through
April is engaged. It kicked off with our
dear loss muertos celebration right
after overseating and then had great
things like this wonderful car show
Concord deans our new celebrity wine and
spirits and perhaps most notably our
dreamy draw country music festival in
its second year. Here's something really
fantastic. It was relaxed by day. It was
packed with 10,000 fans at night that
were really enthusiastic and 46% of the
ticket holders to this event came from
out of state. It is already a tourist
draw. Uh also we reached 4.8 8 million
people through our um influencers. I
still don't know what influencers do,
but apparently it's working. We had
writeups again with magazines like
Billboard, Rolling Stone, CMT, and
Esquire. And the one quote that really
stood out for me was from Rolling Stone
saying, "The high desert landscape here
at Civic Center with a backdrop of
Camelback Mountain in the distance was
the ideal setting for Dreamy Draw." And
I think that is really an advertisement
for Scottsdale as a destination. There
was so much more. Lots of free community
event from veterans concerts for those
who've served bravely in our armed
forces to other city events like the
Bonanza Festival coming up again to our
free Sun and Sounds concerts on Sunday
afternoons throughout the spring season.
And here is a remarkable thing. Uh I was
reminded to share this with you. During
spring training, it was a weekend where
we had mercantile market with 12,000
visitors perated by San Francisco Giants
fans coming through the Civic Center,
stopping by on their way to a day game.
At the same time, we had two soldout
shows inside the Center for Performing
Arts and our Sun and Sounds free
concerts on Sunday afternoon. That's a
million smiles and a lot of tax revenue
to the city of Scottsdale. Still to
come, I see my friend Doc Jones here. At
the end of our season, we have the
Scottsdale Jazz Festival. That was his
brainchild really, and we're happy to
partner with him this year. U much more
to come, our original taste event as
well. So, come check out what we yet to
see. In short, I think Scotsel Arts
working on behalf of the city of Scotsel
is a winning partnership. We required to
produce at least 67% of our earned and
contributed revenue versus the city's
investment. I'm happy that over the last
four years, we have averaged a total of
73% against that. Um that was driven by
our success in raising capital dollars
to the tune of over $14 million. and
we've given away a half million dollars
in in kind services to other nonprofits,
making sure that every organization here
benefits from our work. The organization
is governed by 28 trustees and we have a
number of them with us here tonight.
Thank you for your incredible service,
but also by 73 committee members. Um, so
there are more than 100 people involved
in governing the organization, making
sure that we're really connected to the
roots of this community. We had 1,600
volunteers serve and do service for on
behalf of the community through the arts
last year with 37,000 hours of community
work. You really couldn't pay for that
and we couldn't do without them. So, a
huge thank you to them. And the most
remarkable thing, 71% of what we do is
really extension of city services.
There's no ticket price attached. So,
I'd like to call what we do parks and
wreck for the
soul. Here's the grand reveal. Tonight
at 7 p.m., I'll be over at Catalra, a
historic compound here in the heart of
Scottsdale, uh, to announce that we are
starting a new partnership with
Cattlerack Arts and Preservation. Over
the next few years, we will take on the
management of this historic complex
that's always been a creative driver um
to make sure that what has been a
creative hub for many many years will
remain a creative hub in the heart of
Scottsdale for decades to come. Janie
Ellis pictured here her her dad um
homesteaded cattle track in the 20s. He
bought a thousand acres for a couple
hundred bucks. Hard to imagine nowadays.
It is one of the most treasured and
wonderful places uh in the city. Uh I'm
incredibly excited about this lifetime
opportunity. We're going to build out uh
career development programs and creative
um residencies on this campus into the
future. It really is a lifetime
opportunity. In our contract with the
city, it is stipulated that we are
responsible to create and support an
atmosphere in which the arts may
flourish. I think this really fits the
bill. And speaking of bill, before you
start worrying, no city money involved
in this. This is completely privately
funded. With that, uh, I want to thank
you for your time. I hope this was
informative and a little bit of fun.
Thank you very much. Gird, have fun
tonight. That's
exciting. Oh, comments. Sorry.
Councilwoman McAllen would like to say
something and as well as Council
Councilwoman Whitehead. Thank you,
Mayor. Um, Gird, I just applaud you. um
and to Miss Ellis for that uh dedication
to our city to um partner with us in
that manner. It's a historic venture. Uh
everybody drives past cattle tracks all
the time. And I know some people have
had the opportunity to go in. So, it's
even going to open that ability for
people who have always wondered what it
was to be a part of it. And thank you
for bringing that to our city.
Especially thank you to Miss Ellis and
her family for such um a gracious uh
partnership. Thank you, Councilwoman. It
it's really a pleasure and I should
admit for me this is a very personal
thing because I literally live across
the street from Cattle Truck.
Lucky
you, Councilwoman Whitehead. Thank you,
Mayor. Just really quick, you know, when
you have a really long day and you're in
meetings and then you just get in your
car or on your bike or whatever and all
of a sudden you pass some of our art, it
just it really does rejuvenate you. So,
I just appreciate everything that has
happened. We've seen a lot since you
came we came on board about the same
time and it's been wonderful to watch
the evolution and the growth and the
beauty of our public art that's growing
every day. Thank you. Thank you. That's
very kind. Thank you all. Thank you.
Next, we're going to move on to uh first
public comment uh period. Public comment
uh is reserved for Scottsdale citizens,
business owners, andor property owners
to comment on non-aggendaized items that
are within the council's jurisdiction.
No official council action can be taken
on these items and speakers are limited
to three minutes to address the council.
If you wish to speak on a
non-aggendaized item or an agendaized
topic, please see the city clerk if you
haven't already registered. Uh for the
first round of non-aggendaized public
comment, I have uh five individuals.
five starting with Sam Campana, then
Nick Brown, Lee Hamill, Dan Isaac, and
Patty Badnock.
Good evening, honorable mayor and
honorable city council people. My name
is Sam Tampana. I live at 4800 North
68th Street in Scottsdale House here uh
in downtown Scottsdale. And for those of
you who I haven't met, I've served for
12 years on this city council and was
mayor from 1996 to 2000. This is only
the second time I've been down to
testify in those 25 years. Don't want to
wear out my welcome, you know. Um, but I
did want to come tonight to comment on
the Office of Diversity and Dialogue. Um
it was um begun under my mayorship in
1998 and the department was created long
before sort of DEI was a thing. We
created it for ADA compliance for
non-discrimination ordinance compliance
and to be sure that we were following
all the title six rules as a welcoming
community where everyone is respected
and belonged and thank you for these
first two presentations that really
underscores that. We wanted to foster
and nurture these values by creating a
learning opportunity to improve
communications and understanding between
city staff and our residents. And we can
be very proud of the work that that
department did over all those years.
Incidentally, when I ran um and served
first on city council in
1986, 6% of Scottsdale residents
self-identified in the census as
white, as non-white. Um, this past
census, it's now 19% of Scottsdale
citizens identify as non-white. That's
one in five. I think that's remarkable
for this
community. Um, I was here tonight to
share my concerns that the
implementation of that new ordinance
4662 maybe does not represent who we
are. I worry about the uh sentence that
reads the use of city funds for DEI will
discontinue and the memo citywide DEI
transition plan. I think the vagueness
of the ordinance seems to be leading to
unintended consequences that falsely
create falsely create the impression
that Scottsdale is not for all. Um how
could we not be for all? It says that
programs will focus on special
populations without defining what a spo
a special population is. The memo
discontinues celebrations of Junth, but
begs the question about what criteria
will be used to decide what holidays we
celebrate and which we don't. Support
for the NAACP and the Hispanic Chamber
is discontinued, but why these
organizations and what criteria will be
used to decide who we support and who we
don't? And what about the CCD, the
community celebrating diversity that we
established 31 years ago, touching
25,000 students, 57 scholarships, and
diversity championships of 50. And it
does seem that the vagueness of the
ordinance is already creating confusion
with our 11 million visitors. Since we
originally created the Office of
Diversity and Dialogue, DEI has become a
thing, and some programs may need to be
revamped or eliminated. But we need to
clarify what kind of programs we want to
keep and what kind of programs will be
discontinued. Um, so we are a welcoming
and respectful community which we all
belong. Please affirm our commitment to
those values and work with relevant
boards and commissions to recommend
guidelines for consideration that
clarifies the ordinance and demonstrates
that Scottsdale is for all. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh, Nick
Brown. I don't see Nick Brown. So, Lee
Hamill, followed by Dan Isac and Patty
Badnock. Uh, my name is Lee Hamill. I
live off of Sheay and Vinda and I
regularly go to Scottsdale Ranch Park.
wonderful park. Love taking my dog
there.
Um the software engineer in me says,
"Okay, I see a problem. What are
solutions?" Uh this is not such an easy
solution, but uh I walk my dog Champ
there. I volunteer with Desert Labrador
Retriever Rescue. It's extremely
rewarding
uh work that we do.
And I do everything that I'm supposed to
do when taking my dog to the park. And I
don't want to be a buzzkill on other
people. I want people to be enjoy it and
be happy. But there's a lot of people
that are treating the entire park as an
off leash
area. I don't see any signs anywhere
about city code anything. And it creates
problems for someone like me who I know
a lot more about dogs and behavior. I
don't expect everyone to understand
these things, but not all dogs
are happy with another dog just running
up to them. And it can create problems.
Especially I'm trying to control my 70
lb dog. He's half German Shepherd, half
Siberian husky, and the other person
doesn't think they've caused a problem
at all, and I'm the problem. And it's
completely backwards.
Um, I want to find a solution. I'm just
not sure how. So, I figured I would
start here and just raise some
awareness. And if you want to reach out
to me, I'm willing to try to find
something that might improve things
because
it's it it's hard to enjoy it at times
that I'm on almost red level alert
looking for a dog that might just come
barreling up to my dog. Now I have to
deal with the dog and the human and that
kind of takes the joy out of it.
Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Hamill.
Appreciate your input.
Dan
Isaac, Dan Isaac, address on record. As
the rabbi left, I thanked him for his
invitation because I couldn't agree more
with it. Unfortunately, his aspirational
state is far from being realized in this
country, in this city, or even within
this council. I went away for three
weeks only to find that our city council
has continued to make a mockery of
itself and our great city. In just three
months, Mr. Quasman called a picture of
non-white people in front of the love
sculpture that Gird mentioned poison.
Miss Dascus violated a foundational
pillar of her campaign by taking money
from people with business before
council, even before being sworn in, and
then had the audacity to not recuse
herself from votes that impact
them. Ms. Littlefield has made factually
incorrect statements on social media,
most recently about the parking
structure in Oldtown, either because she
is confused or doesn't care. But the
gold star goes to Barry Graham, the
kingpin, causing the council to face
multiple open meeting law violations and
now an ethics complaint for allegedly
directing city staff to tank a sidewalk
from a blind senior
citizen. I'd like a few data points on
record and available to those watching.
Could I have the overhead,
please?
Here's an email blast Barry sent saying
that the roundabout decision was already
made in an executive session, which by
the way, the criteria for which doesn't
seem to have been met. The city website
had similar language that the decision
had been made.
Interestingly, once the open meeting law
violation was open, Barry changed his
comments, the city changed its website,
and the topic is now on tonight's
agenda. This isn't a smoking gun. It's
game set match. By the way, citizens
will be bearing the brunt of the legal
fees associated with these.
The second thing I'd like to
share is an email blast from
Barry where he calls people names, says
he's a victim, and asks for money
because apparently he realizes that he
will have to hire a lawyer to defend
himself. Are these the behaviors of
someone who says he listens to
residents? I don't think so.
And
lastly, here is a social media post by
Barry's and the Littlefield's vendor
defaming the blind senior and his friend
who filed the ethics violation. This is
morally
repugnant. Barry denies to the press
having any special relationship with
this man, though he pays him for
services and had him in his wedding.
Yeah, not special at all. I left Chicago
after a dozen years, not because of the
weather, but because of my disgust for
the government there. Now, four members
of Scottsdale City Council are emulating
that behavior. It's a sad day for
Scottsdale. I'm glad for the bad
behaviors are being called out, and I
hope the perpetrators are held
accountable. Thank you. Thank you, Patty
Badnock. Pad may uh Councilman Graham
has a comment. Real real quickly, um I
respect Mr. Isaac's right to free
speech, but I will say that it was full
of inaccuracies. Thank
you. Patty Badnock, 40 resident of
Scottsdale, 40-year resident. As you
know, the city is in the process of
reviewing the city's budget by forming a
budget review commission. It is a very
complicated tangled web of provisions
and
restrictions. Paramount mathematical
variables are many to bring to mind
transportation and two to keep the
western most western town around. One
must
go. Transportation we all have witnessed
will probably win. We must kill the
western character in order to save it.
Budgetary
sustainabilities by what means?
Including increased property tax,
backyards will become even more
obsolete, affordable housing takeovers,
water usage demands by forcing
restrictions and on and on. Restricting
our freedoms as we knew but falsely
assumed that we could keep. and the new
norm height and density will continue to
be the sustainable means of life in
Scottsdale. My hope of this budget
commission was too optimistic as I
attended to view the usual mind controls
of staff to direct outcome for further
development business as usual. Thank
you.
Thank you Patty. That concludes the
first uh round of public comment and now
I would like to move on to meeting
minute approvals
uh regarding are there any questions or
revisions to the minutes by anybody? No.
Seeing none, I will entertain a motion
to approve regular meeting and work
study session minutes of February 18th,
2025 and regular meeting minutes of
March 4th, 2025. So moved.
Second. All those in favor, please
indicate your
vote. There we go.
Next, we move on to the consent agenda.
Tonight, we have consent agenda items 1
through
12. I don't think there's any questions.
Oh, no, no questions on those.
Um, we re we didn't receive any uh
request to speak for public comment on
the consent agenda. So with that, uh, do
I have a motion to approve the consent
agenda items 1 through 12? So moved.
Seconded. Thank you. All those in favor,
please indicate your
vote. Thank
you. Moving on to the regular agenda.
Tonight we have regular agenda item
items 13 and 14.
And uh I'll start with regular agenda
item number 13, which is consideration
to direct the interim city manager to
take steps necessary to redesign the
intersection at Scottsdale Road and
Dynamite Boulevard from a roundabout to
a signalized intersection and to return
the council re and to return to council
for approval of any action items
necessary to affectuate the redesign,
including but not limit limited to
budget transfers and contract
modifications. Presenting this evening
on this topic is Allison Timku,
transportation and infrastructure senior
director. Thank you, Allison. Um, thank
you, Mayor, members of council. So, the
action before you is related to the
potential redesign of the intersection
at Scottsdale Road and Dynamite V
Boulevard boulevard from a roundabout to
a signalized intersection. Next slide,
please.
So this slide shows um a picture of the
project area. It is from Scottsdale
Road. It is on Scottsdale Road from
Joeax Road to Dixelleta Drive. And the
entire project is 2 miles long. It's not
just the intersection um that is on the
agenda tonight. But um it is to
reconstruct the four-lane two-mile
roadway from a major collector confi
configuration to a minor arterial
complete street configuration.
So, um, federal funds have been
obligated for this project. Third-party
utility re relocation started in July of
2024 and construction of the project
started in December of
2024. Next slide,
please. Okay, these pictures show the
old configuration compared to the new
configuration. The new configuration
will include drainage improvements, curb
and gutter medians, east side shared use
path, westside sidewalk, and new right
turn bay at Dixelleta
Drive. So, the drainage improvements,
the raised medians, improved turning
movements all contribute to increasing
capacity and safety along the
corridor. Next slide, please.
This picture shows um a rendering of the
Scottsdale Road and Dynamite roundabout.
The intersection was designed to be
converted to a multi-lane roundabout.
Design started in 2020 and there were um
federal uh grant HSIP which is highway
safety improvement program funds were
awarded to construct this
roundabout through the initial um oh
next slide please.
Okay, so this shows the roundabout and
signal comparison. So through the
initial project assessment, the
engineering consultant evaluated the
intersection and determined that the
roundabout was the preferred option for
safety and efficiency. And this graph
here uh the chart table here shows the
comparison of the roundabout and the
traffic signal before modification and
after modification in terms of level of
of service. and level of service
basically um tells what the efficiency
or the congestion of the intersection
will be. And then there's also a summary
of the 5-year total of collisions um
between 2015 to 2019. And that is the
data that was used um when the design
started in 2020. Next slide please.
So this slide shows um approximate
possible timing of the redesign. So if
um council tonight took action to
redesign the intersection, we would
start designing and it would take
approximately eight months to complete.
We would also have some additional
right-of-way acquisition that would be
required and we would have to work with
the third-party utility relocations
depending on if there are additional
relocations needed because of the
redesign. Um traffic signal procurement.
Um our traffic signals take about nine
months to procure. So we would have to
procure those early and then we would
have to um work with MAG on potential
funding transfer. And while this is
happening, construction of the roadway
north and south of the intersection
would continue with possible
reconstruction of the intersection
starting in the beginning of 2026. Next
slide, please.
So the current construction, so our
contractor is currently working um along
the roadway segments. Joeax to the north
and Dixleta to the south um keeping um
construction no construction at the
intersection of Scotsil and Dynamite
until there's further direction and
design. And once the red design is
complete, a change order to the
construction contract would have to be
generated for the signalized
intersection. Next slide.
Okay. So, funding, we would have to do a
funding transfer in order for um in
order to keep the funding for the
project. So, essentially, we had the
HSIP grant that I referred to and that
was $1.9 million and that was for
construction of the roundabout. So,
changing the roundabout to a traffic
signal, that grant would be forfeited.
the second federal contribution which is
the
STBG
STBGP which is surface transportation
block grant program funding of $29.3
million. Um this funding is a federal
contribution of the MAG regional program
and what we propose is that would be s
swapped with other projects that are
funded through the MAG regional funding
program which is the ALCP. So, what
we've listed here at the top is the
federal contribution um the STGB grant
of $29.3 million and then the
replacement funds. So, what we are
proposing is to replace ALCP regional
funds from two projects, the Carefree
Highway Cave Creek to Scots Road and the
Rainree Hayden Road to Loopa 101 to make
up for the $29.3 million. So, we would
go forward with the traffic signal,
continue with the Scottsdale Road
project um using regional funds instead
of federal funds and then we would apply
the other projects to receive the
federal funds in the future. Next slide,
please. Um so, what would happen with
the funding transfer would happen in
October, which is the federal fiscal
year 26. um we would have to on October
1st submit the request to MAG and then
MAG goes through a series of approvals
with the final approval October 22nd um
would be the vote at the MAG regional
council. So in the meantime we would
construct continue constructing the
Scasso Road project that is currently
under contract using local funds until
we made the funding
transfers. These would all be pending
approval by MAG. Next slide, please.
And so, um, I mentioned earlier, um,
that there would be some additional
right ofway required. So, as far as the
redesign for the signalized
intersection, um, we would revise the
current roundabout design at Scottsdale
and Dynamite to a signalized
intersection with our design firm. And
we have a a preliminary cost estimate
from our engineer that it would be
$280,000 for them to redesign the
intersection and they could have that
completed by November of 2025. And then
other possible impacts to the timeline
which I had shown earlier on the graph
is we will require um there will be some
additional right ofway acquisition
required. It's not a a large amount. Um,
and we won't know the exact amount until
we actually redesign the intersection,
but there is some. And then again, the
utility relocations that I mentioned,
the third party utilities have relocated
for the roundabout. And so once we
design the new signal, it will we can
determine what additional um relocations
would be necessary. And then again, the
long lead times for the traffic signals.
Next slide, please.
And that concludes my presentation and
I'll be available for questions. Thank
you very much, Councilwoman Whitehead.
Do we want to have the public speakers
first? Oh, yes.
For her. Okay. So, turning to uh public
uh comment for this agenda item number
13. There are 17 speakers registered to
address us this evening. Starting with
Lee Koftel, Andrew Sheekch, uh Sonnie
Curtley will be donating her time to
Andrew Sheekch. So Andrew, anyone with
donated time, you'll have four minutes.
Everyone else will have three, please.
And then followed by uh Dan Isac, Betty
Janick, Judith Bedford, and I'll stop
right there. Lee Cough Coffile, please.
Hi there. My name is Lee Coftile. Uh,
please excuse the voice. Allergy season
is hitting me hard. Uh, I live uh at uh
basically at uh um Hayden and Thomas.
Um, so I'm I'm here to speak uh on
behalf of keeping the current design.
Uh, I don't see as somebody who's on the
transportation committee commission but
not talking on behalf of them right now.
I've seen the statistics that the city
has collected over over a decade looking
at how these intersections that we have
are safer for our citizens. They are
cheaper, so better for our budget
because of the reduced maintenance over
time that we have them. And also, as
we're seeing here, this will cost us $31
million extra that we'll have to find
other funding sources for. And uh they
also are more efficient. They're a more
efficient way to move congestion, which
I hear constantly uh is a huge issue for
this city. And so I would I would want
this council to listen to citizens.
That's important. Everybody here up here
has uh committed to listening to
citizens. But also I want you to be our
leaders as well. And when the citizens
have an incorrect assumption of how
roundabouts work and what their costs
are and those type of things, I would
want you to talk to us and say, "Hey, I
understand your concerns. this is this
is actually why this is going to be
better for you. It's going to save
lives. It's going to save the city money
and it's going to reduce congestion. And
so I would want us to do that.
Um I was surprised to see that this new
one is going to require rightway because
that was the major driver the last time
this was up before the council and that
was the major driver for the increase in
cost. That was the concern for many
people that were up there. uh was
because the city decide the city once
they got a look at the area saw that in
order to decrease to in order to meet
the flooding needs that this two-mile
strip had, they would need to purchase
more land than they expected and that
was the major contributor to the
increase in costs uh to this project. It
had nothing to do with the roundabout or
any cost associated with that. We are uh
as we we are roundabout first city, but
you'll notice most of our intersections
are still signalized. And that's because
our city staff takes the time to look
and see when it's appropriate and when
it's not to put these in. And uh the
most recent one that impacted me that
was not a signalized is at uh Osborne
and 64th. The city recently put in a
traffic signal there and instead to make
sure that that's that was safer for both
for both people driving and people
crossing and other vulnerable road
users. I would implore this council to
to keep the design as it is because it
has been looked at for years. We have
the data and and we made our our city
made the decision based on the actual
information we have there. Thank you for
your time tonight. Thank you very much.
Council Councilman Graham, did you have
a question for Twe questions for you?
Commissioner Coughell, thank I only ask
you this because you're commissioner. Um
you mentioned that when you said it's
the um obligation of the of uh the
council when um um the residents are
wrong or inaccurate that we're supposed
to correct them. Residents that disfavor
roundabouts, do you say just I guess yes
or no. residents that disfavor
roundabouts, are they wrong?
I can't give that a yes or no question
answer. Okay. And then and and then um
yes or no. Do you approve of the um the
roundabout on Hayden at North Side? Yes.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor.
Thank you, Andrew Sha. And you'll have
four minutes.
How do I uh I guess I just place this
down. It's first time using this to turn
this on.
Face up. Oh, face up. Okay. Nice. Cool.
And my first time using a
laptop. All right.
So, uh, my name is Andrew Sheekch. I'm
standing here representing the Coalition
of Greater Scottsdale. Um, I wanted to
talk about COGS for a minute and bear
with me because it's more of a segue
into what I want to discuss that at at
the Coalition Greater
Scottsdale, we advocate for consistent
land use. We give facts to our members.
We give facts to our readers and we let
them decide what is right or wrong. We
don't tell a story. We don't uh try to
get their opinion to match our opinion.
We give the facts. And if people agree
with us, that's great. If they don't
agree and they come to me, Andrew, I
read everything you have. I read all the
facts. I understand. I'm still against
it. That's okay, too. But I just we just
make sure they have the facts. Which
leads into this roundabout. uh back in
January, this roundabout uh when we
discussed it, it was there was a letter
from the Arizona Department of
Transportation which basically said that
if we make changes, we have to give away
the federal money. Now, there's people
on this council who wanted to pretend
that they didn't hear that since
January, but that's been going on since
January. I've also seen the facts on
this as we've seen some of the facts is
that this roundabout also includes
drainage improvements. It includes curb
and gutter. It helps with the median,
the east side shared use path, a west
sidewalk, uh new right turn um at uh
Dixletta Drive. It's also the roundabout
is only a small portion of this. It's
$6.8 million for the roundabout and
everything else that was listed there is
an improvement on it. is an improvement
of this area and we should have the
facts and and starting I saw there was a
good amount of support for for this uh
written into written comments but my my
problem with is if we don't do this
we're not telling the truth what we lose
we're losing the federal we're losing
the federal grants we're lo we're going
to be spending more money and we could
talk about transferring funds and hoping
that we get them but I doubt we'll get
the the funds back
uh to sit there and borrow from two
other projects to pay for something
different. It's ridiculous. On the other
part of it, this was long-term planning.
This was decided in 2017, 2018, 2017
around that time. And we're deciding now
by a shortsighted agenda that all of a
sudden this is wrong. We're not going to
listen to statistics. We're not going to
uh listen to facts and truth. I see on
on a lot of these social medias, and I
see people who post on there,
that that we nothing had to do with the
federal money, that it wasn't going to
be returned, that the the transportation
department was was wrong, that
roundabouts are terrible, uh that and
all the other things that I see, but
we're not giving the facts to people.
And and that's the the bottom line what
we should also be talking about here. I
I I saw on on one point for an attack on
Councilwoman uh Whitehead that she's
practicing politics and and and and
pushing an ideology and I might not
agree with everything with Councilman
Whitehead, but I can guarantee that she
produces facts and has discussions with
me and she'll accept if I don't agree
based on facts. The only ideology I've
seen being pushed is in the meeting in
January, the meeting in February, and in
today. Um, I would just tell them to
people over here, listen, listen to the
facts that are being presented. Listen
to the facts there. If you're against it
after actual facts, that's something.
But from what I see over here, it's it's
it's being presented that it's status
over people. It's ego over
community. We we are seeing more and
more of of uh playing politics and and
ideology than we are giving truth. And I
I just want to tell the people out
there, find the truth. Look, find the
statistics. What I'm telling you is
true. This is going back in January from
a letter where ADOT even said that we
would lose the federal funding where
last month we had a speaker and people
here pretended, is that true? That's not
true. Oh, and then and it's completely
true. So, I I appreciate the time. I I
hope that you keep with the original
plan and what was done because it was a
lot of planning. It was it is the right
thing to do and really make your
decisions based on on on the facts that
we have and and not and not made up
stories that which has just been
presented. Thank you. I appreciate the
time. Thank you Dan Isaac followed by
Betty Janick, Judith Bedford and Sheila
Raymond.
Dan Isaac address still on record. It is
un unfathomable
unfathomable that people elected on a
platform of fiscal responsibility are
even considering this change. I can't
imagine any of you going home to your
spouse and children saying, "Gee, we had
a great council meeting. We made the
streets less safe, threw away millions
of dollars, and delayed a needed
improvement to Scottsdale Road and other
projects." And I'm going to answer Mr.
Graham's ambush question to Lee. No, an
opinion is not wrong, but it can be
based on incomplete or inaccurate data,
especially when people that they trust
provide
misinformation. Fact one, it has been
shown with irrefutable proof that
roundabouts decrease the severity of
accidents both from property and injury
perspectives. And they do so by keeping
traffic flowing more efficiently than
stop signs and traffic lights. Yes, some
people don't like them and need to learn
how to use them. Guess what? A lot of
people don't like speed limits, but we
don't throw them away. By the way, has
it crossed your mind that installing
something with a D safety and efficiency
rating rather than an A rating exposes
the city to lawsuits? I would think a
personal injury attorney like Mr.
Quasman would understand this risk and
not want to take it on for the city.
Fact two, we will forfeit $31 million of
federal money by doing this. Yes, we can
submit for regional money and we may get
some or all of it, but even if we do,
it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. Any
regional funds will be moved from other
projects, thereby delaying them or
increasing their cost or cancelling
them. The city staff report makes that
very clear. The total funds will be
less, thereby pushing off or cancelling
other projects. The costs, penalties,
and legal fees, I'm sorry. Further, we
are at risk of breach of contract with
our construction partner. The cost,
penalties, and legal fees of that breach
are still to be determined, but they are
not zero, and there are Davis Bacon
considerations that will add to the
cost. It is reasonable to assume that
even in the best case scenario, the cost
of this change is in the millions of
dollars, not 31 million, but millions.
Fact three, the entire process will
delay the muchneeded and demanded
widening of Scottsdale Road and more
importantly the flood mitigation efforts
of this project. In a typical monsoon
season, this area floods a few times
causing road closures, significant
travel delay, and cost removing gravel,
silt, and debris. In closing, unless you
think telling your family and friends
that we made the streets less safe,
threw away millions of dollars, and
delayed a muchneeded improvement to
Scottsdale Road and other projects, you
shouldn't consider voting for this
change. Thank you. Thank you, Betty
Janick, followed by Judith Bedford,
Sheila Raymond, and Carrie Wiloxen.
Good evening, mayor and city council. My
name is Betty Janick and my address is
on record. Roundabouts became a huge
issue during the last campaign, but the
truth is roundabouts are safer than
signalized intersections. As many of the
people who spoke already have indicated,
several reputable agencies of the state
and highway safety report that modern
roundabouts result in a reduction of
fatal crashes by
90%. Injury crashes by
75%. Pedestrian by 30 to 40 and bicycle
by 10%.
It turns out that roundabouts slow down
the speeders and they avoid t-bone
crashes which are the most dangerous.
So, if you would just look to what I
have there, that's an
example of a t-bone
crash. And I think the numbers speak for
themselves. Arizona in 22 had
1,197 fatalities.
About 263 of those deaths were from
T-bone accidents. They're 22%
fatal. 237 lives could have been saved
with roundabouts. 90% could have been
saved. In addition, there are
54,000 injury accidents. The most common
brain injury, head and neck, and back
injury, just to name a few.
Okay, now let's go on
to head-on collisions. Arizona had about
120 deaths from head-on collisions. They
represent about 10% of all the
fatalities in Arizona. That's 180 lives
that could have been saved by
roundabouts. Again, 90% saved. Head-on
accidents also cause very serious injury
accidents of those 54 4,000 including
spinal cord injuries, whiplash, and
traumatic brain injury. Now, what are
the complaints? They're too slow. Yeah,
they are slower. You need to go slower
as you go through a roundabout. And that
is why 30 to 50% more traffic capacity
is accommodated with a roundabout. Okay.
Are they hard to navigate? And someone
already referred to this. Yeah. Put down
your phone, pay attention, do a good
job. That's what driving is all about.
There is a learning curve, and it will
get
better. For these reasons, Scottsdale
Dynamite Boulevard intersection was
designated as a multi-lane roundabout,
replacing the current signalized
intersection.
There is operational improvement of
level of service from A from EF to A and
we saw that on the slide that Allison
presented. Now my next
slide which is timely we are now number
three for crashes. Shame on us. And
there's one comment I do want to make
and it's kind of an important one. If it
turns out that people really have
trouble navigating these, you can do a
metering at entry which can help create
gaps in the traffic so people on
dynamite get a chance to get on the
intersection and people from Scottsdale
get slowed down a little bit more. That
is not a bad compromise if this
configuration causes a lot of trouble
after about a year or two. So, thank you
very much. Thank you, Judith
Bedford. Thank you for this opportunity
to address the council. My name is Judy
Bedford and I'm a year-round resident
and a homeowner. My home's just off
Dixie Letta um just west of Scottsdale
Road. And I had seen that uh in the
press that there were concerns about
this roundabout um which was part of a
larger project and that it was
considered being cancelled. So that
raised my concern because I live right
there. So tonight I was glad to hear
from the transportation people with more
information about what would actually
happen and the the in terms of time and
funding if this project was changed. Um,
other than that, and I haven't I've
never really heard a good explanation
other than people are not familiar with
roundabouts and they don't know how to
use them or they don't like them. I've
never really heard another explanation
of why that part of the project would
want to be cancelled or changed. But I
mean, personal opinions really should
not be the basis of this. It should be
the safety and the funding which which
we have hard facts about. And I was glad
to hear some more specifics about those
tonight about the the statistics on on
safety. I lived abroad. I'm used to
roundabouts. I know how to use them. I
think because they're not that um common
here in the United States, although in
some cities they are. People just are
not accustomed to them and there may be
some hesitancy or they don't know how to
use them. But there's a lot more to this
project than just the roundabout. You
know, we talked, they gave more
information about that tonight about the
pathways and the sidewalks and the
widening and the drainage and all that
is very important and it would it would
look so much nicer and it would help
traffic flow so much better. So, I
really hate to see the project lost or
have to take funding away from other
projects just because of that one part
of it, which is the roundabout. And I
think what Miss Janick just said now
about having a metered entry onto the
roundabout could help if traffic flows
are really heavy in one direction
um during certain times of the day. But
I really I I would like to see this
project go on. I I mean the roads right
now are completely torn up. My intersect
my road is closed. Dixie Le is closed at
Scottsdale Road. You cannot get on at
all. you have to people are going taking
detours through subdivisions to get
around or going completely out of their
way to get to Scottsdale Road. So, you
know, any
delays are really an inconvenience and
to the to the local residents. So, we
still have to pay for everything that's
been done so far. We'd have to pay to
put the
roads back in order to be used because
right now Dixie is all torn up. There's
just a big hole in the ground at the
intersection and two roads of two lanes
of Scottsdale Road are completely gone.
So, at the very minimum, we've got to
pay for the work that's been done, put
those roads back in usable condition,
and then as we said, if there there
could be other costs involved. So, I'd
hate to see the whole project lost
because of not approving the roundabout
specifically. Thank you. Thank you so
much.
Sheila
Raymond, followed by Carrie Wilcox,
Michael Joiner, then Eugene Rose.
Good evening, madame mayor, madame vice
mayor, and members of city council. My
name is Sheila Raymond, and I live in
Scottsdale. I do live in South
Scottsdale, but I do work and do things
up in North Scottsdale. I daily use I'm
sorry, weekly use roundabouts, four
specific one up near the Costco at the
by the air park in North Scottsdale.
Also, the one here at Miller and
Osborne. I also use one near the zoo and
the uh botanical gardens. And let me
think where the fourth one is. I I oh by
Mustang Library on 90th
Street. I'm much better at them than I
than I used to be. I've learned how to
use them. It take a little takes a
little time, takes a little patience,
takes a a lot of awareness to make sure
you're making that turn. But you know
what? making a right-hand turn or making
a left-hand turn at a signalized stop is
also something you have to be prepared
for. So, I don't see a difference there.
I did see a um a difference in how the
city council looks at projects. I want
to we can look back today. We can look
back and say they should have done
something different that city council.
Those boards and commissions should have
made other decisions, but they didn't.
That's what they did. And I think it's a
waste of time to go back and try and
reclaim a project. Take time to
redesign. Take time to the funds. Try
and pull the funds. Oh, I hope we get
the funds. Maybe we'll get the funds. I
think we could get the funds. I don't
like that approach. We have the funds.
Move forward with it. I don't think it's
um unreasonable
for the citizens of Scottsdale to expect
city council to abide by the contracts
that were made that were signed that
were agreed upon. There are people
ripple effects that you have to think
of. I'm not here as a Democrat, a
Republican, or an independent. I'm here
as a citizen of Scottsdale. You
represent me. Whether I voted for you or
not is irrelevant.
There will be other elections
and you need to speak up for us. We need
to be able to count on you. I did have
the honor of serving on a board actually
the library board for two terms. I
served as the vice chair for two years
and chair for two years. And I have come
before city council asking for money for
the library. At one point I was told,
hey, we need to be careful because there
could be inflation. there could be a
recession. They were being responsible
as city council not to take monies and
move things around. We found monies
elsewhere and reappropriated for the
materials collection and that was great,
right? But then now we're not going to
do that. We're not going to be fiscally
responsible. We're not going to plan
ahead that maybe things could happen.
You have the funds, use them because
inflation is going to be a reality for
any of our materials. So, think about
that. I know I'm almost out of time.
Thank you for your time tonight, and I'm
really happy to see so many citizens
show up. Thank you. Thank you, Carrie
Wiloxen. Don't see Carrie. How about
Michael Joiner, followed by Jean Rose,
uh, Copper Phillips, and
Marty
Renz, mayor, Vice Mayor, and City
Council. It's a pleasure to speak to you
tonight. Um, I I don't know where all of
you live, but I believe I live the
furthest north of any of you. And I go
through this intersection at Dynamite
and um Scottsdale Road a minimum of two
times a day going and coming and some
days as many as eight times a day. And
um I want to introduce you to a word
that you may not know and it's called
driveology. and my insurance company. If
you want to save $650 a year on your
insurance, you put this little thing on
your car and it tells the insurance
company how fast you drive everywhere.
And I'm sort of known as the queen of
speed plus nine. So I I go the speed
limit plus nine and my insurance company
says I'm a very good driver. Well, two
days ago, I was turning left off of
Dynamite onto Scottsdale Road, and I
waited through four lights to turn left.
And I turned left and was going south on
Scottsdale Road at my speed plus nine.
Three trucks passed me as if I was
standing still. And we can blame drivers
and all we want, but I I kind of chuck
that up to frustration because they had
to wait so long to turn left. You figure
every round of a left turn is a twominut
uh hold back. And I think that is a
frustration. And the light isn't going
to change
that. I believe speed is the problem on
Scottsdale Road and a light will not
slow that down. A roundabout does. And I
I I I
I know you all are going to make your
own decision on it, but I ask you before
you vote to to say whether your decision
is going to slow down the speed on
Scottsdale Road. And I had the pleasure
of writing with one of our amazing
police officers in Scottsdale on my ride
along. The first call of the day, we had
just gotten in the car was for a crash
at Scottsdale and Dynamite and I was
there for almost 7 hours and it was very
interesting and she said that was the
number one place that they go for these
crashes. So, I'm not going to comment
about the money one way or the other. I
leave it to your expertise to decide on
that and our amazing city manager. But
um every every decision has to do with
speed and I think these accidents that
have happened have been a result of
speed and the roundabout will slow
people down and that's the only way
we're going to reduce the accidents on
there. So thank you. It's a pleasure to
talk with all of you. Thank you, Michael
Jean Rose, Copper Phillips, Mark Grant,
Susan Kaufman.
Good evening, Madame Mayor, uh, Madame
Vice Mayor, and honorable city council
members and the public. Thank you for
allowing me to speak tonight. Um, the
one common denominator that I I think
unites us all is we I think we all could
agree 100% we want safe roads and safe
places to drive in and around Scottsdale
and everywhere we we drive.
Um, but this is about where my lack of
agreement is with the former
speakers. Now, um,
interestingly, I don't know, but I'm
assuming so far of the speakers, I'm the
only one speaking so far that has
actually been to civil engineering
school. And notably the the thing that
um uh in civil engineering there's a lot
of traffic design and roadway design and
that sort of thing. And I remember, God,
makes me feel old, almost 50 years ago,
sitting in traffic engineering at
Vanderbilt University in Nashville,
Tennessee. And one of the entire
chapters focus was on
roundabouts. And amazingly, all the
people I hear talking tonight, it's like
they got I was going to say carbon copy,
but some of you are too young to know
what that is. It's like they got a Xerox
of that textbook. And I can tell you at
the time our class back
then totally vetoed it based on our
knowledge and training at that time and
I veto it today. You know, there's an
old saying that uh figures lie and liars
figure. And I'm not alleging for a
moment here that anyone is lying, but
I've heard a lot of feelings here
tonight. And I've heard a lot of truths.
I'm going to call them halftruths
because it's not the whole story. In
engineering school, where's my time?
Oh, okay. In engineering school, when we
design things, we're And I thought, gee,
I'm never going to use this before. 50
years later, I am. uh when we design
things, we're told to look at the whole
picture, not just the hard numbers. Now,
one hard number that I heard tonight was
very interesting is the number
57. 57 accidents at that intersection
over five years, that's about five to
six accidents a year. Not acceptable.
No, you know, we'd like to see zero. I
think we'd all agree on that. But
putting in a traffic circle, you've got
to weigh the human factors. And the
human factors include tourists, elderly
people, people on medication, people
call hauling vans and trailers, horse
trailers, moving vans, all from 50 miles
an hour to a two-lane roundabout where
most people are too scared or too afraid
to know how to drive. That's the human
factor that you don't see illustrated in
these numbers here tonight. So, you
know, you have to consider that.
Um when people are anxious, fearsome,
etc., they are angry and angry drivers
are not safe drivers. And thank you for
the time. I urge you uh please override
this and uh hey, we pay the taxes. $31
million can go back to Uncle
Sam. Thank you. Thank you very much,
Jean Copper Phillips.
Good evening, Mayor Baroski, members of
council. As you know, I'm Copper
Phillips, and I have the distinguished
honor of living about a half mile away
from this intersection. I've lived there
since uh January 15 of 19 of 1994. So,
31 years. And for 31 years, when I sit
out on my back patio and sometimes I'm
in the house and I hear that dreaded
crash, I debate whether it was loud
enough to get in my car and go to render
first aid at that intersection or wait
till I hear the sirens. And it's about a
50/50 decision. Uh it's not a pleasant
sound. And when I look at the speed on
Scottsdale Road, and let me give you an
example right now, the southbound lanes
are torn up. So those two lanes are torn
in addition to the center turning lane,
which leaves the northbound lanes, which
is the bike
lane. And there are traffic barriers
along both sides of both lanes where
traffic is merged into one side of the
road with a 30 mph speed limit.
As I was turning left from my street
onto Scottsdale Road, which was kind of
easy actually once traffic cleared
because of the barriers, I stopped and
paused a moment because a truck pulling
a backhoe was barreling down between
those barriers, gently touching the
barriers on either side. So they were
wiggle wobbling type of thing. And so I
brought my speed up to his. It was a
green light at dynamite. and he was
doing 52 miles an hour in a 30 driving a
backhoe on a trailer. You know, if you
don't think that kind of gives you a
little rush, okay? And not in a good
way. The least speedy people on
Scottsdale Road may drive
52. The speediest, as I had one guy tell
me, it is my god-given right to go as
fast as I want, as long as I don't have
a crash. to which I responded, "Let me
you have your t your crystal ball so I
know when you're on the road so I don't
have to be there." I had another person
tell me they don't like roundabouts
because they make me think while I'm
driving. That's a pretty scary thought.
You know, in in Europe, they have
roundabouts almost exclusively. Carmel,
Indiana has about 140 of them. Their
whole town, they've converted
everything. Less pollution, less gas
used. Uh, fatalities are almost
non-existent in intersections. So are
other accidents, almost non-existent
anymore. And they've learned how to
drive them. I moved out here knowing how
to drive them because I'm on the East
Coast. But if you look ever go to Las
Vegas and you're traveling 93 up to to
Vegas from Wikcinberg, there are five
roundabouts in a 50 mph zone. If you go
to Cottonwood, we took the uh railro the
Verie Valley Railroad over Thanksgiving
and you drive from
I17 to Cottonwood. There are about six
roundabouts and they allow traffic from
the side street to easily access. Is it
as congested as Scottsdale Road?
Probably not. But nevertheless, I think
it's a much safer alternative. I think
it's a waste of time and money and
construction to keep those roadways
under construction for an extended
period of time and I doubt we're going
to get the money back from MAG or the
federal funds. Thank you. Thank you,
Mark Rence, followed by Susan Kaufman
and James Dornfield, then Lee Courtney
and Miss D. Collins.
Good evening, Madame Mayor, city council
members, and city council staff. Uh my
name is Mark Rence. I'm here speaking on
my behalf tonight.
Uh, I just want to put my position up
front at the beginning and then I'll
provide my rationale for my position. I
oppose the motion to redesign the
intersection at Scottsdale Road in
Dynamite Boulevard from a roundabout
back to a signaliz
signalized intersection.
I have three reasons, but first of all,
I want to commend staff for their uh
reports and attachments that I've read
through. Uh I think it was concise,
provides a lot of information for uh
city council members and the mayor to uh
to work through. Uh but I think there
are three primary reasons for uh for my
opposition. I know there are. First of
all, I couldn't find anywhere in the
public record any compelling reason to
change
back to uh and move away from a
roundabout. Uh I look forward to hearing
from whoever has uh submitted the motion
their actual reasons for that that
proposal. In fact, I would argue that
the proposal is somewhat arbitrary and
capriccious in that it doesn't lay out
any engineering, human or fiscal reasons
for moving back to it. To the
contrary, the proposed uh motion would
do the opposite. That brings me to my
second reason.
The proposed change will result in an
increased an increased re risk to public
health and safety at that
intersection. I just want to pull a
couple quotes out of your staff's
report. I don't want to take uh too much
of your time, but on page one of
attachment one, the next to last
paragraph, it says, "Studies have shown
that
roundabouts to be significantly safer
than traffic signals in reducing
collision severity, injuries, and
fatalities when compared to traditional
control.
I also go to another point on that same
attachment page two halfway down right
below the figurative drawings and it
says key the total number of conflict
points that's where two vehicles might
come into contact with each other. The
total number of conflict points reduces
from
32 to just eight. That's a significant
reduction in contract. I'm going to go
on to my third point. I've got plenty
more quotes. And my third point is
quickly uh there's it's fiscally
reckless I think for this council to
pass the motion. According to the staff
report, according to Arizona Department
of
Transportation, the city will forfeit 30
in excess of $31 million federal funding
and will have to turn to regional money
to do that. They will also have to get
additional funding for the uh for the
Scottsdale
roundabouts and uh on Carefree high the
Scottsdale roundabout carefree highway.
If you indulge me, I'll close out Madame
Mayor with just a personal perspective.
I know it's anecdotal, but I think it's
significant. I live off a dynamite road.
Every day I drive the two newest
roundabouts, those on Happy Valley Road.
And I can speak for myself and saying
that I have seen a significant increase
in driver awareness, safety, people not
slow people slowing down. And finally,
people that would run those stop signs,
especially at Alma School and and a
Happy Valley are now much more cognizant
of their situation. So, thank you for
indulging me. Thank you. I appreciate
it. Susan Kaufman, follow followed by
Lee Courtney and Misty Collins. And then
that's it as far as I
Hi, my name is Susan Kaufman. I live on
a Happy Valley road. I'm about a mile
from the roundabout at Happy Valley and
Alma School. And I want to try to give
you some m some perspective here. Alma
School runs north and south. Happy
Valley runs east and west. The
roundabout that's at Happy Valley and
Alma School, the driving circumference
of it is 0.05 miles and we have a
combination of nine entrances and exits
on that particular roundabout. Also,
when Happy when that roundabout was
done, Happy Valley Road was uh
considerably expanded, upgraded, uh bike
lanes and uh walkways put in.
Um Happy Yeah, Happy Valley Road, the
bikers always have ridden in that uh
secondary lane. It's just the way it's
been. And by putting in that six-foot
bike path, I was hoping they'd stay
there. They don't. they still come over
to that secondary lane particularly when
they are large groups which there are
coming up from uh Pinnacle or Puma,
excuse me. Um the next thing is I have
seen those sidewalks used once and I go
through that roundabout probably three
to four times a day. You would never use
a sidewalk because that sidewalk on
Happy Valley is dusty. It's hot. It's
noisy. It's just not comfortable and
people do not use it. So, I see those
things as not useful at all, the bike
lanes and the sidewalks for the
roundabouts. So, I hope that those
things are out of plans permanently. Um,
the worst thing about the roundabout is
the pedestrian crossways. They're
virtually impossible to do. The cars
come up on the signage for the
pedestrian
crossways. Very minimal to see it.
You're on top of the pedestrian before
you realize he or she is there and
you've had virtually no signage. The
signage is on the crosswalk. Uh I don't
see very many people crossing the
street. There is a lot of talk about
safety and roundabout particularly as it
relates to horrific vehicle crashes. I
find that interesting because those are
the kind of crashes that only make the
newspapers. It's not the fender benders
that make the newspapers and the people
that get their necks whacked because
somebody hit them in the back. The fact
of the matter is that they're just
beginning to trace roundabout accidents
now that are sideswipes, uh, bumping
from the back, problems with bikers, and
problems with walkers. We'll have more
information about that, I'm sure, in the
next couple of years.
Um, when when you have a roundabout and
you've got yourself in the center of the
roundabout and you are looking over and
there are three lanes that are entering
where you are
simultaneously, you don't know where the
heck to go because they're all going
fast.
The other thing about this particular
roundabout on Happy Valley is Happy
Valley has always been known for its
speeders, the roundabouts haven't
stopped that at all. The people get out
of those roundabouts and it's 60 m an
hour to the next roundabout and then the
next roundabout it's 60 miles an hour
down Happy Valley Road. It hasn't
controlled speed at all. Thank you very
much. Thank you, Lee Courtourtney.
Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, and
council members. Oops, sorry. Um, good
evening, mayor. Um, and vice mayor and
council members, as well as the
Scottsdale community. I'm um a native to
Scottsdale. I didn't intend on speaking
tonight. However, as a young younger, I
should say person who does get a lot of
my news from social media, I have found
it very interesting the climate around
this intersection, which also happens to
be pretty much in my backyard. So, I'd
like to just point out from both being a
resident of this city as well as an
resident who lives within this
space, the fiscal responsibility to me
matters dramatically. these funds are
approved. I'd like to show you what the
road really looks like because it's
right out my
window. You can see
here to so many people's points, this
road is already under construction. The
work has started a very long time ago.
This isn't something that's up for
discussion. The train has left the
station. This project is underway. It's
affecting our lives. The funds are in
place. We need to use these funds and
continue the job. I think the narrative
that has been put out there that we were
fiscally responsible to approve a
project that spends $40,000 to have a
roundabout is very misleading to the
community because we aren't spending $40
million for the roundabout. We're
spending $6 million or roughly six
million. We're spending nearly $40
million to control the water that comes
down that road and washes it away. We're
spending almost $40 million to make this
a safe road. And part of having the
roundabout is going to dramatically
change that intersection. I haul horses
there. I drive that road daily to go
ride my horses. It is insanely
impossible to cross. It's narrow. It's
tight. It's blind. It's already a
lighted or whatever the proper word is.
It It's already a lighted intersection.
It's been approved to be a roundabout.
The project has started. Please be
fiscally
responsible. Please care about our
safety. There is proof in numbers both
fiscally and in our safety. Fewer
accidents happen in a roundabout. It
might be a little inconvenient and
people will continue to get used to them
as time goes on. Thank you, Miss
Courtourtney. I have a question for you.
Um, right. Um, so like the voice of God,
it's coming close. Yeah. Um, uh, you
know, I talked about this over the last
year because when people learned about
the, uh, roundabout going in there,
especially I thought horse the horse
community, equestrian community. So, do
you think that causes trouble navigating
the roundabout with a horse trailer? I
do not. And the reason I would say that
is there are several of them further
down Dynamite as you head into Rio
Verdie and I haul my horses behind me.
And yes, you have to slow down to take
your car and then give your trailer time
to get behind you, but it's safer. We
don't nobody's rear ending anyone and
nobody's t-boned anybody and people see
me in my trailer if I'm coming. They
they can't you know it from a traffic
perspective it's easier to navigate even
the bigger horse. Yeah. And and and the
new round the the proposal is actually
two lane. The what goes down Rio Verie
currently is a one lane. It's narrow and
we get through it with a horse trailer.
With two lanes we'll be elated.
Thank you very much for answering that
question. Uh, Misty Collins
and this is our final speaker.
Good evening, Mayor um and and council.
This is my first time to speak, but it's
a it's a topic that's um concerning me a
bit. Um, so, um, my name is Misty
Collins and I am a resident of North
Scottdale and I live right in the horse
properties along Scott between Joeax and
Dynamite and Scottdale Road in Puma. Um,
I have many neighbors that have horses
and I have many neighbors that have lots
of friends with horses down Dynamite.
So, I'm very familiar with that. And
from their perspective, as as we've been
speaking about this, they are concerned
about the trailers in the roundabouts.
They have to maneuver the ones that
they've already put on dynamite, and
it's not an easy thing for some of them.
Now, you may have experience that they
don't have, but it they are very
concerned about that. And so, um, I just
wanted to bring that notion to the to
the council and let them understand, um,
that the horses are important to
Scottdale and the roundabouts seem to be
counterproductive to that. The other
thing I wanted to say was north of
Pinnacle Peak, the speed limit is 50
miles an hour. People definitely go 50
probably probably faster most of the
time. And when you come to that
intersection, if there's a roundabout or
if there's a horse trailer and all this
traffic that's coming because there's so
much traffic based on just the amount of
growth up there, um I'm not sure that
that's a good
uh match to have fast coming traffic
stopping up to a roundabout and then
also with the horses in the area.
Um, let's
And I don't know. I just I'm We're just
really concerned for the horses in the
area and um for the speed on the traffic
on coming up Scottsdale Road. Um I think
there may be other ways to slow the
traffic down with your speed cameras.
They seem to work pretty pretty well and
things like that. Um, but uh I I I'm not
in favor of the roundabout and hope you
would consider considered my opinion.
Thank you very much. Thank you very
much. That concludes the speaker section
on uh item number 13 and I see some
questions on the board. Council
Councilwoman Whitehead.
Okay. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you to
everybody who has spoken this evening.
and Allison, I don't have any questions.
So, I I you know, this is something that
I've been involved with for a long time,
but I first want to talk about my
colleagues who brought this idea
forward. One of the things about being
elected, it's such an honor. You want
you have ideas. You want to deliver on
those ideas. You get in office and quite
frankly, you find out which ideas work,
which ideas don't work, and which ideas
might be really kind of awful. And I
gotta tell you, my first year, we had a
city manager who would just kind of
smack me aside the head if I had a
really bad idea. So, I appreciate the
concern about the roundabout and I
appreciate this, you know, council
members looking into it, but there is
nothing that I can support about making
this midcontract change. There is not,
as some many of you pointed out, there
is no valid reason for it. And as the
city of Scottsdale has never stopped a
contract midway through, specifically
without a reason. So, I do want to go
through a few of my concerns because we
have heard from both sides and um that's
important for our residents to
understand.
Um, let's first of all just talk about
that 31 million because I was surprised
that that became kind of a question. Are
we going to forfeit 31 million? So, when
this contract was approved, our staff
worked diligently to apply for and get a
federal grant. These are competitive.
That was in incredible. And I want to
say that the the people involved are no
longer with the city, but we were
awarded the
grant when the city interim city manager
asked went to AOT went to MAG, the
Maropa Association of Governments to
find out if we the city of Scottsdale
could make this change. We received a
letter from AOT that sta states if
Scottsdale chooses to proceed with this
major change of scope, Scottsdale will
forfeit and pay back all federal funds
in the total amount of 31,132,929.
ADOT also confirmed that once funding
was withdrawn, and I'm quoting, it would
need to be obligated on another project.
In other words, it'll go outside of
Scottsdale. We also confirmed that there
are no guarantees on regional dollars
either. Per the interim city manager
memo, the construction work will
continue throughout the year using local
budget appropriation without regional
reimbursement. Folks, that's our money.
And that money is not just sitting in a
pot. It's dedicated to other projects,
including the sidewalk, which is often
been
discussed. Reimbursement. Um, so we will
use uh local
dollars. I lost my spot.
um with regional reimbursement without
regional reimbursement until a MAG
Maricopa Association of Government
request is submitted in October and a
positive outcome is achieved. I need to
stress only if a positive outcome is
achieved. What that states is there's no
guarantee. So what are the costs? We've
talked now extensively about the 31
million, but when you change a contract,
whether you're remodeling your kitchen
or doing a two-mile stretch of a major
road in the city of Scottsdale, you
don't get out of that for
free. There are costs. Let's talk about
some of those. There are change order
penalties. The contract states with any
deduct change order, assume minus 20%
and additive plus 20%. Let me translate
that for you. There is a penalty for
change orders of elements
removed or
added. So if the roundabout costs 3.7
million and the signal cost 3.7 million,
we're looking at 1.5 million just in
fines. There's additional land
acquisition. One of the speakers spoke
about this being planned since 2017 by
civil engineers, I might add. I'm an
engineer as well, but I'm not qualified
to design a two-mile stretch of roadway.
The people that made this decision and
worked with contractors
were the land that was acquired from
private citizens to accommodate a
roundabout. That will have to change. We
will still have the land. We will still
have paid for it, but we will need to
acquire additional land to accommodate a
traffic light. That's an additional
cost. There are design changes, utility
changes, material costs. One of the
benefits promoted was that we could pay
lower wages if we don't have a federal
grant. So when a city accepts a federal
grant, we agree to pay basically fair
wages. All bets are off if you don't
have federal dollars. So I personally
don't like that. But let's think about
what we would have to do. We've already
agreed to pay those wages. We're not
going to get that money back. Our sub
our contractor isn't going to go to the
subcontractors and the and the people
working and say, "Will you take less
money?" That's just not reasonable and
it's not right. So, that is not a
savings.
You know, the thing I love about city
governments, and anybody's ever heard me
speak, I love city governments. We
actually work. We're close to the
people. We are your neighbors, and we're
accountable. And I have heard from so
many reporters over the years of how
transparent and honest Scottsdale is as
a government.
It is the norm for a city to plan for
the worstcase scenario and work
diligently to deliver the best case. But
that's not what we're doing here. I
asked our interim city manager, where's
the worst case scenario and what happens
there? What happens then? I'm going to
read a quote from his response. The city
will need to evaluate next evaluate
steps moving forward. This could involve
project
cancellations or stopping this project.
It's under construction, folks. Or
stopping this project where it is and
cancelling future
work. Is that acceptable to anybody in
this room? It's not acceptable to me.
And as was off was mentioned, the delays
are also unacceptable. You know, just
today I was driving and there was a
major t-bone crash in an intersection.
And as former council woman Betty Janick
loved your statistics and your data, as
she pointed out, we're third in the
nation for intersection collisions.
So nobody up here on this dis is
qualified to tell you if an intersection
will be safer this way or that way.
We're just not. We're elected to take to
listen to the experts and take their
guidance and review the data and make
decisions. And that's what this council
did last September when we approved this
roundabout. And let me tell you,
roundabouts weren't a political football
until this year. Since
1986, city councils just like this one
filled with people that love to debate
on issues have approved roundabouts.
There was no discussion. Public safety
isn't an isn't an item that we go out
and do polling on. Public safety is our
job. And that's the decision that led us
to approve a contract last um September.
So, I don't think I'm going to review
all the safety. Our the speakers did
such a good job, but and I get it.
Fender benders are a problem. And, you
know, kind of messes up your car,
especially if it's new, but there's
nothing
like head traumatic head injuries, death
of a family member. And that's what
we're eliminating. We're eliminating
T-bones. We're eliminating the um red
light runners. And one of the gentlemen
spoke about um our older population
being nervous about speed. No kidding. I
have a neighbor who won't even drive on
the highway. That's precisely what we're
doing here. We're reducing the speed so
that people can navigate this um this
intersection. And there was a talk about
this being a 50 mph road. Yes, it is.
But guess what? You have to slam on the
brakes to get to that red light, too. So
why not just slow down and make the
whole experience a little nicer and not
sit there um in congestion waiting for
the traffic light to change? Um you know
finally I want to talk about the one
point that my colleagues had on this
that I thought had merit
and they they said because I had spoken
um to to some of them about the idea of
roundabouts and the notion was that
people don't like
roundabouts. I mean, that isn't how we
make our decisions, but I think that
might have been true in 1986, although I
don't know of any fuss back then, but
that's not true anymore. What surprised
me most about this whole effort was that
overwhelmingly or we we received so many
emails, at least half or more than half
of people demanding this roundabout
because it does make their lives better.
It keeps traffic moving. It reduces the
aggravation and the the bad driving that
Copper Phillips described. And it's it
protects their loved ones. So that was
the one point I was surprised the most
about. And finally, I want to talk about
our
staff. Our staff has spent since
2017 doing the analysis and coming up
with this, winning that federal grant,
doing a tremendous amount of work. And I
think it has been irresponsible of this
council after getting that initial data
and finding out this is actually a
terrible idea to have had our staff work
so hard. And I want everybody to know
they didn't get paid overtime, but I
guarantee you our staff has been working
overtime. So I want to especially thank
our staff for trying so hard to turn,
frankly, a bad idea to be the best it
can be. But I adamantly oppose doing
this to our city, to our residents, to
our financial security. And I hope that
my council colleagues will join me and
just get this one forward moving
forward. Let's wrap this up. Let's not
drag it on another year. And then if we
want to have work study sessions and
talk about roundabouts, I'm all in. Just
roundabouts moving forward. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilwoman Mckllen.
Thank you, mayor. Um, thank you,
Solange. Uh, I also want to thank all of
you for being here tonight. I also want
to thank the over
uh 287 people that took the time to
email me over the last month about this
topic. I will tell you that more than
twothirds I have got some negative
emails but more than twothirds of them
were pro the roundabout for many
different reasons but let me tell you
what it speaks volumes to me is our
citizen safety when you elect us you
want us to do what's at the best
interest and that is exactly what our
staff has done it is what the regional
transportation plan since 2008 has said
that this is a good idea. I also want
you to understand that there was a
fatality at this light. One of the
reasons why this grant was sought. The
reason why we received the grant was
because the federal funding said this
intersection is so horrific. We need a
roundabout. So, we are trying to help
you by keeping this. Our staff worked
very hard to have this federal dollars
attributed to our city. $31 million some
of our council are willing to throw
away. We have a budget that's coming in
a month that you want us to vote on and
you want to throw away $31 million. It
makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't
care whether you like it or you don't
like it. We are trying to save lives.
Let me give you some figures that people
didn't talk about
tonight. One fatality
Seven
injuries so
severe. Oh, I'm trying to think of the
term that they used. Seven
incapacitating injuries. To me, that
says that these people no longer
function fully. Okay. But they're
alive. That's between 2011 and 2015. One
fatality, seven incapacitating injuries.
Between 2015 and
2019, we had 57 crashes at this
intersection.
Okay. Between 20 and 24, we had 69
crashes at this intersection.
So, not only is our city trying to keep
you safer by creating this and the
engineers working on it, if the city
votes tonight to not put this in it, we
are putting ourselves liable for the
next person who gets injured at this
light. There already is a stoplight
there. Making it a better stop light
isn't going to stop these crashes.
Traffic studies say a roundabout is
better. That's why we've worked so hard
to prove it.
I don't think facts and figures lie. Um
I tend to be someone who follows
research and if all of the researchers
are saying that 90% reduction in fatal
crashes, so maybe the one person who did
die or maybe out of the seven that are
incapacitated
now, maybe less of them would be
incapacitated. We need to look at what's
best for our citizens and also be
fiscally responsible. Not it's not just
going to cost us
$31.1 million. It's going to cost us
penalties. The the utilities that have
changed are going to have to be changed
back. It makes no sense. We're paying
the postage triple here.
The other thing that concerns me are
some of the projects that will have to
go away to recoup our funds. Those
projects are with other towns, Carefree
and Cave Creek. How are our sister towns
going to be affected? How are their
dollars going to be affected? We need to
think broader than just liking or not
liking a roundabout. We need to think of
our safety of our citizens and the
financial impact it's going to have.
It
is meant to be a roundabout and we
should continue with that. That's my
opinion. That will be the way I'm voting
tonight.
Thank you, Allison. I don't see any
other questions on the Oh, sorry, Vice
Mayor Dvasquez. Go ahead.
Thank you, Mayor Browski. Um, I'm the
only member of council that lives in
North Scottsdale. I regularly drive this
intersection. It's it is not engineered
correctly today. It is a very narrow
intersection and there are very high BMS
that impede the visibility. Um, I drive
through on Sunday at 8:30 to go to
church and it is very busy on Sunday at
8:30, but I can understand why there
have been accidents there because it's
it's not a great intersection today. The
idea behind spending the 43 million is
to widen Scottsdale Road, widen all of
these areas, and all of that planning
remains as part of this project. Uh the
question is whether it would be a big
beautiful roundabout or a big beautiful
light. And um when I am at church on
Sunday at 9:00 a.m., I don't get asked a
lot of things that you would expect to
get asked at church. I get asked, "What
can you do about the roundabout?" Um,
the people who live in that area
overwhelmingly
uh don't want a roundabout. And I
appreciate Councilwoman Whitehead
acknowledging that half the emails we
got were saying no roundabout, please.
Um, we didn't ask people to send in
emails. There were several people who
asked residents to send in emails. We
didn't. We wanted to hear straight from
the people. and without prompting half
of the people that wrote in said no
roundabout. I think that's really
interesting that there are people up
there who are really very passionate on
this topic and feel like it's a cultural
issue in addition to a safety issue. And
so if we can come to a solution that
improves our safety helps those folks
with the long horse trailers. Um I
appreciate the comment from Miss Collins
um because we did hear that several
times. um but also you know preserves
this feeling that we have in North
Scottdale. I think we should do that.
The um construction is not so far that
it's uh unavailable to do so. Um and our
job is to listen to the
residents, not just the experts. I think
we can make this safe and listen to the
residents and and do the do the right um
and make this intersection better. So um
that was one of the reasons that I
wanted to to bring this forward. Um, I
think it's an important discussion item,
but also there is a sense that we've
somewhat lost our way in the city of
Scottsdale. We've stopped listening to
residents, which is what happened in
November. Um, we need to listen to our
residents. Our residents don't want to
be in a roundabout first community. Um,
and so that is something that I would
like for us to discuss further if that's
in a work study session or not. Um, and
so, uh, I appreciate the opportunity to
talk about it today.
Thank Thank you, Councilman
Graham. Did you see me? Yeah. Okay.
Appreciate the residents that came out
and spoke to us. And um I will ask uh
Allison if you may have just a few
questions for you. Although I see Nathan
Dome over there ready to go, aren't
you? There he is. He gave me a little
wave. Good to see you. Um I just want to
clarify that we This is not a vote on
all roundabouts. All roundabouts, no
roundabouts. Uh, love roundabouts, hate
roundabouts. We're just voting on one
intersection. One roundabout at one
intersection. Um, and as it was stated,
it's a tiny percentage of this whole
project. This roundabout is a small
percentage of this whole project. Um
this project is
um two miles long and it does a lot with
safety, does a lot with u grading,
visibility, turn lanes, raise medians.
There's going to be a lot about this
intersection that's going to improve.
Um, so Allison, um, I just from your
presentation, which was excellent
presentation by the way, it sounds like
from what you said, this isn't going to
delay the project a whole lot in your
estimation. Is that a correct statement?
Um, Mayor, Council Member Graham, we are
hoping that it won't. Um, again, we have
to design, we we would have to redesign
the intersection. Um, but allowing the
contractor to continue construction away
from the intersection. We're hoping that
the timing is such that um there won't
be delays, but there could be delays.
Yeah. Delay. Yeah. And that's kind of
every project is baked in with a little
bit of risk of delay and um and so it's
we there's a lot of variables we have to
weigh here. Um would you I mean we
wouldn't be doing we heard a lot about
we're losing we're you know we're
getting rid of we're forfeiting $31
million. But the goal here this effort
is to swap funds. It's not to lose
funds. So, we're going to take this
roundabout right now has federal funds.
We're going to apply those to some other
projects and then we're going to uh
bring uh we're not okay that's not the
best way to say that. We're going to
release those funds and we're going to
apply regional ALCP arterial life cycle
program funds. Arterial Life Cycle is um
a MAG program that we all pay into as as
a basically a countywide and then you go
and you apply to MAG and you get these
um arterial life cycle programs that
connect the valley across uh you know
across the whole area. So we're that's
it's an application of ALCP funds.
Correct.
Um Mayor Council Member Graham. Yes. So,
what we're proposing is, like you said,
swapping the um the MAG federal funds,
which are the STGB funds, the 29 million
um with the MAG regional funds, the ALCP
funds, which um can you go back one
slide? That one. Yeah. Um with those
projects that have those funds
associated with it. So make that swap
and then apply for the federal funds to
go to those those project namely
carefree. How would you rate our
relationship uh our the quality of our
relationship with MAG and with uh the
awarding agencies? We have you know
healthy dialogues and we're talking to
them constantly. Is that correct? Um,
Mayor, Council Member Graham, yes, we do
um work with MAG all the time and uh we
have done um similar funding swaps in
the past. Um the challenge with this
project is it's the first one that's
already been obligated and is currently
under construction. Can we walk and chew
gum? Probably can, right? Um when was
the last time that we did that
swap? because you just mentioned um and
it's okay if you don't have it. Oh,
there I knew Nathan was going to be
ready.
Last one was either a year and a half
ago to two years ago. Okay. We swapped
the federal funds on one project for
regional funds to It sounds like the sky
didn't fall. We didn't we weren't out,
you know, we weren't holding the bag. We
weren't, you know, lose a bunch of
money. We didn't lose our shirt. It
worked out, right? They did approve it
during regional council. Very good. Um,
and how would you, Nathan, while while I
have you here, how would you, how would
you rate our relationship with these
awarding agencies? We sit on their
committees. We talk to them on a regular
basis. So, we are actively communicating
with ADOT and MAG throughout every
business day. There you go. We got our
charming transportation engineers
working closely with them. So, well,
thank you. Um, yeah, one presenter said
that we're stealing from one project to
fund this. I just think that's a
mischaracter mischaracterization of
what's going on here. I see this as a
swap of funding. I see are I have
faith I have faith in our personnel. Um
we wouldn't be pursuing this if we were
going to be losing a big grant. If we
were going to be piling up and incurring
major
penalties. We have to balance lots of
factors and one of those is like council
Dowski said the overwhelming people in
the area that live
there want to signalize the
intersection.
So, we have to I think we have to
respect that. We have to take um
calculated risks. We have to rely on our
professionals. We have to rely on our
experts and we have to move forward very
carefully. We're not rushing into this.
This is months after the council has
been sworn in. We've been talking about
it. We've been moving very carefully and
we wouldn't be doing this if we were out
stealing funds or losing our shirts on
something.
Allison, regardless of whether we put a
roundabout or traffic lights at this
intersection, will this intersection be
safer after these improvements are
completed?
Um, yes, Mayor Council Member Graham.
So, um, again, the roundabout was um
selected for safety and efficiency. Um
but redesigning the traffic signal with
some counter measures can also produce a
safer um traffic signal than what is
existing. And can you say a little more
about if say this vote were to go
through and we were to um put a
traditional traffic lights which is what
you see at the rest of Scottsdale Road
and all of Puma in that area of the
city. This would be the one outlier.
This would be the entire departure of
the entire area if we were to go with
sign with traffic signals. Can you say a
little more about how what we would do
would make the intersection safer?
Um yes, Mayor Council Member Graham. So,
um some of the measures that we can
include are protected left turns, dual
left turns, flashing yellows, medians
all the way up to the intersection. And
um as was pre previously mentioned with
the drainage and the sight lines by
correcting um raising the intersection
and correcting the sight lines.
Thank you Allison. And uh I think that's
all my questions um for staff for the
time being. Um I just want to read a few
remarks here that I wrote down and I I
won't belabor and I won't try to talk
too much. Um roundabouts are well as we
heard from staff these change orders
happen. Um my concern with this area um
is that and I'm no traffic engineer but
um you know the just the data says that
when you have large arterial streets
with fast traffic that builds up um the
problem with roundabouts is that they
can bottleneck and they can cap faster
uh than signals. There are some studies
that say that that there will be
um traffic signals can do uh greater
throughput at a large enough streets of
more than 50%.
Um, we do hear from round residents that
tell us
that roundabouts do lead to driver
confusion and we have to factor that
especially when you're talking about
multi-lane roundabouts and you start
thinking about people maybe unwisely
changing lanes in in in uh changing
lanes during a roundabout which can be
very confusing. We know that the data is
very clear that um collisions when you
install roundabouts increase in
frequency. Um again, this is not a
debate about all or nothing roundabouts.
This is an absolutist either way. We're
just talking about one roundabout at one
intersection. There are some cases you
can look at
roundabouts. We can look at them. So
it's not this is not a airtight um it's
it's we we kind of move away from the
absolutism and just look at this one uh
intersection. And then lastly I'll just
say that um speaker Eugene Rose who I
thought um uh gave a good speech to us.
Uh he talked about it's just I I even as
I'm pouring through this data it's the
the human factor. He talked about the
human factor. And the human factor is um
you know until we're all in self-driving
cars, the human factor is real. Whether
it's equin, whether you're hauling a
trailer, uh whether you're elderly,
whether you're a tourist and unfamiliar
with the area. Um last thing I want to
do before I conclude my remarks um is I
want to read um something that Howard
Meyers posted. Howard Meyers he authored
Prop 420. He's an engineer and he would
served on many commissions. And uh Mr.
Howard Meyers um who couldn't be here
tonight because he's traveling. He says
even the city traffic engineers
recognize roundabouts don't work when
traffic volumes are high, but they claim
the volume on Scottsdale Road is
moderate. So they think they might work.
Um he's not sure what they mean by
moderate, but because he believes, Mr.
Howard Myers, who lives in the area,
that that the uh traffic volume in that
part of Scottsdale is very high. They
also u made it a two-lane roundabout
recognizing the volume is near the upper
end, but those types of roundabouts are
far more dangerous with people trying to
change lanes in the circle and not
having good visibility of traffic in the
circle. Uh some roundabouts can achieve
lower fatalities, in some cases lower
accidents, but not when the volume is
high. So, I did want to read uh Mr.
Howard uh Meyer's comments into the
record. Um he has a lot of respect in
this community and I thank the mayor for
allowing me to speak and uh for the
speakers to talking to us and for city
staff for presenting.
Thank you, Councilwoman Littlefield.
Thank you, Mayor. I agree with the vice
mayor and my compatriate here next to
me. Um, this is a very small part of a
much larger project which is going on
and going through. I'm sorry, frankly,
that the many residents who wrote to us
against this project did not show up
tonight and did not speak with us.
Especially the gentleman who wrote to me
in my email and said that the roundabout
will require a taking of some of his
personal property so that they have
sufficient land to complete the
roundabout.
And I find that to be a little
overwhelming. I would have liked to have
heard more about that. But
um the people who who live nearby near
this roundabout, they do not want it.
It's the people who don't live near it
who want it.
And they I can't go with that. I have to
go with the people who are affected by
this directly and every day.
And so I'm not going to be supporting
this. Um I think there are ways I think
that they were mentioned that, you know,
we're not going to lose $31 million.
We're going to find ways to uh get that
and use it for funding for projects that
will be of benefit to our citizens and
not harm them. Thank you,
Councilwoman Whitehead. So the one thing
about our community is we're active.
We're engaged and we're passionate and
that's always a good thing. I do just
want to correct a couple things that
were mentioned. First of all, I need to
stress that government isn't run on
hopes and faiths and good relationships
with colleagues in other agencies.
Government is run based on contracts.
And contractually, this city will
forfeit over $31 million of guaranteed
federal dollars at a time when federal
dollars look like they could not be
flowing for much longer. So, that is a
given and it is a shell game. If we move
regional dollars from one project to
another project, that means somebody
else's neighborhood is impacted. And I
want to agree with my council members
who said this is a small part of a big
project. It is. And yet the change is
going to forfeit the money that pays for
the entire project. My goodness. You
know, and the fact that we only have one
roundabout on this road. I mean, can you
imagine if we never took steps to
change? We would not have indoor
plumbing. At one point, only one house
had indoor plumbing and we managed and
we moved forward and now we all have it.
Isn't that good? Um, and I want to talk
about this or this business of change
orders don't cause the end of the world.
We've never done a change order in the
middle of a contract and this is a big
contract and people's lives are at
stake. Um, but I I do and as far as the
efficiency, I actually am going to read
this data. I wasn't going to bore
everybody, but again, we're not experts.
Our job is to be guided by experts data
and take people's input. And absolutely
the people in this community right near
this intersection are divided. There are
people who are not comfortable with
roundabouts and they rode in opposition.
And there are people who absolutely fear
for their lives every time they make a
left turn and want this uh roundabout.
We don't make public safety decisions
based on polling and we know that change
is hard for people but it's okay as a
nation we've changed a lot and that's
what's made us great but I do want to
talk about the traffic flow so there's a
lot of unsubstantiated claims and we all
we all think we're the experts. We had a
transportation engineer who said the
only people who know more than him the
transportation engineer is pretty much
everybody with a driver's license.
Right. So, we all have our opinions, but
this intersection has been thoroughly
studied and the it's
counterintuitive, but with a roundabout,
drivers slow down and get to their
destination faster. The roundabout will
deliver an Alevel
um level of service. That's flow. That's
how fast you get through and you're
alive. and a new traffic light. The
current traffic light, we're at an F. F
as in you failed. The new traffic light
will deliver a D as in
dog. The roundabout is better. It's
safer and it'll get people to their
destination faster. When I first got
onto this city council, I met with a
transportation engineer because I was a
little bit concerned about the
roundabouts, too. And he told me,
"You'll go through the roundabout,
you'll come out the other side cranky
but
alive." And that sold me. And actually,
I've gotten really used to roundabouts.
And I get pretty cranky when I go to
California and I'm stuck at a traffic
light because they haven't bought on
like Scottsdale to roundabouts where
roundabouts are needed. So, I just
wanted to provide that clarification.
And again, for my colleagues who want to
talk about roundabouts, let's do it
without forfeiting $31 million. I'm all
in. Thank you. Thank you. I think I have
uh Councilwoman McCallen and then we're
going to go around again, it looks like.
Thank you, Mayor. Um I have a question
for Allison or Nathan. Um, so my
question
is the project that goes to the Carefree
Highway, what other towns will that
affect and have they been contacted if
we're not able to do those projects?
The limits of the project are within the
city of Scottsdale. Okay.
We basically our jurisdiction goes
through the entire ride ofway of that
that corridor. So we are maintaining
that project. They are adjacent to the
town of Carefree and we are
in coordination with the town of Cave
Creek to talk about extending it and
adding improvements all the way to Cave
Creek Road which would be in their
jurisdiction but for the most part it's
in our jurisdiction. So our project is
within our jurisdiction. So we haven't
talked to them yet about any changes
whether it becomes a federal project.
Okay. The changes if that went through
in October would be just
the applying the federal requirements to
the project. The project would stay the
same. The design would stay the same.
It's just putting in for the federal
requirements of NEPA and utility
coordination. So it may or may not
affect their projects. Basically it
should not affect the design. It would
No, no. I'm talking about money like
their federal funds also that it's
regional funds right now. So no, it
would not affect their their funds right
now. Okay. Thank you for that
clarification. Allison, my next
question. Um my colleague here said that
um we're taking and this was uh
Councilman Graham a calculated risk if
we let go of these funds.
We may not receive federal dollars
again. Is that true? It's a possibility
that we may not get funds. We'll apply
for them and you guys will work hard for
them, but there is the possibility we'll
lose this
money. Um, uh, Mayor Counciloman
Macallen. So,
[Music]
um, the the federal dollars
are through MAG. So, MAG has regional
dollars and federal dollars. So, the
intent here is because it's through MAG
that the federal dollars will still stay
with the city and we would be able to
reapply them to another project. That's
what the intent of this is with their
approval, but they could deny it.
Correct. Okay. That's all I wanted to
know. Um, again,
uh, more than half the people who
reached out to me were for this. I'm
just going to reiterate that. I know
some people aren't happy with it, but I
think that we are supposed to be good
stewards um, in the way that we use your
tax dollars and I again um, I have not
been moved. uh the fact that I have a
study in front of me that says it's
safer for our citizens to have this
roundabout. I'm not going to change
that. So, thank you for your time all of
you again. Thank you.
Allison, I have a couple of questions.
Uh you talked about delay that there
will be delay. Can you quantify the
delay and what does the delay depend on?
I think you talked about it. It depends
on a couple of different factors. Um
yes, can you pull up the slide that
shows the timeline? Yeah, thank you.
Okay, so
um we've prepared this just based on
some assumptions. So um again the
redesign of the intersection would take
about 8 months. Um we would have to
acquire some additional right of way and
we're estimating that to take 8 to nine
months. And then the third-party utility
relocations again we have to get further
enough in into the design to determine
if the utilities need to relocate. Um
and then the traffic signal procurement
which again a long lead time.
So, with the construction continuing on
the roadway segments to the north and to
the south of the
intersection, we'd be working on the
redesign of the intersection with all
these other factors and um targeting to
be able to be under construction of the
intersection before there are any delays
in the contract. But again,
we can't guarantee that. Why? What does
it depend on? It depends on all
these items happening according to this
schedule.
So, you're just speculating on that
timeline basically. Correct. It's an
estimate. Okay. And then the second
question I have, um, there's been a lot
of talk about swapping funds. Can anyone
guarantee that we're going to get
replacement funding at this point for
this project?
Um, mayor, no. It's not a 100%
guarantee. Um, but we will work with MAG
to see if we can achieve it. And I think
you mentioned that if we pass this
tonight that uh, city manager Greg
Kaitton is required to write a letter
um, acknowledging the risks of forfeit.
Can you talk about that? That's correct.
Mag has requested that if we do make
this change that we write a letter to
them um letting them know that we
understand that there is a risk that we
would not um maintain the funding. And
what does that mean? If we didn't
maintain the funding, where would the
money come from to do this project if it
changed scope? So, um if we didn't
receive the funding, I guess there's a
couple alternatives. We could um do the
project up to the point where we have
expended local dollars and stop um or we
could look at other projects um that are
currently um scheduled that we could
transfer the funds to and delay those
projects until funding is available.
Okay. And then I think when we talked
earlier today,
uh even if we replace the funds through
MAG regional funds, which is the goal,
the ideal goal because we're not going
to get the federal funds that we've got
allocated to this project now. We would
hope to get those applied to different
projects in the future. Okay. Um, so
then the goal here is to reallocate or
to get MAG, which we can't ask until
October, I think you said, or after
October 1st, get MAG to allocate
different funding source, regional
dollars to supplement this project. Is
that right? the the uh signal.
Um, mayor, I think you're asking that if
we don't So, the plan would be to take
the regional dollars from those projects
listed to apply to this project, but
you're saying that's right. Okay. Yeah,
that's right. And then those projects
will need to be funded. Yes. So, that's
a whole different set
of non-funded pro unfunded. We're taking
the funded funding from projects
currently funded and putting it here.
That's right. That's what you said.
Correct. Because then the 29 million
that is the um federal program through
MAG, we would um request to reapply th
those funds to the other project.
Same project taking the regional front.
Yes. Okay. Got it. Uh all right. I don't
see that I have any further questions,
but before I before I close um my
comments, I just want to add this
council has spent a large part of our
three months looking backward at what we
deem to be bad decisions of the prior
council. And I agree that the prior
council did make a lot of objectionable
uh decisions and uh as we've tried to
undo some of those, they've some have
been I don't know, maybe perfect, close
to perfect, some have not. Um they've
fallen short of perfect. Uh I don't like
roundabouts. If we were here deciding
today, I would be voting no um on a
roundabout because personally, I don't
like them. Uh I was interested, very
very interested in the fact that it's
not surprising to me that we received my
office received twothirds uh in support
of keeping the roundabout roundabout
one-third in support of getting rid of
the roundabout in favor of a signal. I
wasn't surprised about that because the
the email campaign can be eas easily
executed. Uh, I'm surprised by how many
people showed up really to speak in
favor of the roundabout and many of
which, contrary to a comment that was
made, do actually live right there. And
I was even more surprised that I know
three people really, really well here.
Um, two of which spoke in favor of the
roundabout and one spoke against it. So
that's it's it's definitely a twoth3
one-third split for me at this point.
Um, and you know, Lee Courtourtney spoke
about that. That was always a big
concern about the horse trailers. And I
think, you know, contrary to the gal
that said about the horses, I was
concerned about that, too. But Lee
Courtourtney uh has a lot of miles on
her trailer, and I know that for a fact.
So, I trust her judgment um on that one.
So, I'm I'm I'm glad to hear that. But,
I don't know if it's going to matter in
this case. I just want to say that um
you know I disrupting and overturning
the decisions of the prior council I I
think you know sometimes it's just not
in the best interest. I'm not willing to
risk uh general fund money to supplement
this project to try to correct a
mistake, you know, what could have been
a not the best decision of the prior
council. I'm not willing to have the
residents in that air area suffer
extended delay. um if we can't piece
this together that bottom line there's a
lot of risk here uh as your mayor I
wasn't elected to take risks on your
behalf at all uh I want to know answers
to questions I don't want to hear you
know we you know I have faith that we
can work together with MAG and get the
best result and get these funds there is
a lot of uncertainty in what's going on
with funding sources we all know that uh
and so Allison Tim Q, the uh
transportation director, she mentioned
to me earlier, as much as I don't like
roundabouts, I mean, this is a
high-speed corridor, you know, lots of
miles between stops and um and you know,
her point was, and I don't think you
were advocating this for this at all,
but it's it's a this is worth a try in
this area. I you know, we don't have
anything like that. And to the point of
um on Scottsdale Road and to and by the
way if it didn't work and again I don't
think this is going to be effective.
These are just my thoughts. If it didn't
work you could always change it to a
signal. Um so stopping it now someone
made the point of let's stop it now put
a signal and then if s signal doesn't
work we'll put it back to the
roundabout. That to me does not make
sense. So, I am um leaning toward uh
leave it as is and um go from there
because I see the risk as being too
great. Councilman Graham. Thank you,
Mayor. I'll move to redesign or I'll
motion to redesign intersection at
Scottso Road and Dynamite Boulevard.
Second. Councilwoman Whitehead, you took
your name off the board. You're done.
Everyone done? All right. Okay. Uh, with
that, I don't see anyone else. Please
cast your
vote to rescope this to a
signal. With that, the motion passes.
Thank you very much to everyone who
showed up. We appreciate your input.
Okay, we're going to move on to agenda
item number
14, and that is discussion,
consideration, and possible action
regarding the appointment of city
manager of a city manager, specifically
including the consideration of interim
city manager Greg Kaitton and the
potential approval of an employment
contract setting forth the city
manager's compensation and benefits.
Once these contract terms have been
discussed and
determined by the council during the
meeting, uh there's no presentation on
this and uh I do see public comment. So,
we're going to hear from those
individuals. Dan Dan Isaac
Dan Isaac, address still on record. Um,
I'd like to take Mr. Graham at his word
that we should rely on experts. The
experts said do a roundabout. You chose
not to. The experts would be doing a
search for our city management, city
manager, but you don't want to rely on
experts.
Scottsdale is one of the most
sought-after cities in which to live in
a top tourist destination with millions
of visitors. It is also, or at least
used to be, a sought-after place for
municipal staff. With a population of
almost a quarter of a million, a
footprint of almost 200 square miles,
and an operating budget of over a
billion dollars, as well as a similar
CIP budget, we are not a typical city or
town.
We owe the residents the best city
staff. The only way to ensure top talent
is to have a full and objective search
by
experts evaluating skills and experience
rather than filling it with someone
because he seems differential to four of
the council members. While Mr. Kaitton
has some experience as a city manager.
It was for cities a fraction, and I mean
a fraction of the size and complexity of
Scottsdale. I'm not exaggerating the
difference. His experiences with cities
less than 20% of the size of Scottsdale
in population, geography, budget, etc.,
and a tiny fraction of
visitors. Moreover, he is still learning
about Scottsdale, having only been here
one year. that's quite brief to suddenly
be given the role in an uncontested
process. So even if he has the skills,
he objectively doesn't have the
experience. A hasty decision by a slight
majority on council
seems that seems to like his willingness
to please them will create doubt in the
minds of many as well as put him in the
unenviable position of wondering how and
when one person changes his or her mind.
And if, god forbid, he gets a vote of no
confidence, then we have future search
fees and transition
costs. That is not a good strategy,
especially given the loss of
institutional knowledge we have had in
just a few months. Our city deserves a
search for the best qualified candidate
based on skills and experience. If that
search recommends Mr. Kaitton, at least
we will have data to support the
decision. then he and the city can be
comfortable with his selection and have
the unquestioned support of the full
council. Thank you.
Thank you, Sasha
Weller. Good evening. Uh Sasha Weller,
Scottdale Firefighters Association, 3370
North Hayden Road. Mayor Bowski, Vice
Mayor Dubosquez, members of council, I
would uh like to rise and and come and
speak with you in favor of the selection
of Greg Kaitton to be our permanent city
manager. Uh right now, what this city
needs is some permanence. It needs some
steady leadership. It needs a a steady
hand on the wheel. Um had the
opportunity to work with Greg over the
past 10 months. We don't always agree on
everything. Uh, but I know him to be an
honest man. I didn't know him to be a
person of integrity. Uh, that said, I
didn't always agree with Jan Dolan. I
didn't always agree with Fritz Bearing.
I didn't always agree with uh, David uh,
Reich. I I haven't agreed with every
city manager over 25 years. There is no
perfect candidate out there. Uh, what we
need is somebody who's going to be
dedicated to our city, and I think that
Greg will do that.
Um, over the past 20 years, we've had
seven city managers. uh and a similar
number of interim city managers. What I
can tell you as a city employee for
those many years where we are most
vulnerable is when we have interims when
we don't know the study uh when we don't
know what the the direction is. And so
every time that we have a loss of a city
manager and every time that we end up in
a long exhaustive search uh as
employees, we end up more siloed. we end
up with less direction and it takes
years to get back to a place of cohesion
and to a place of teamwork. Um, we have
a great amount of city, we have a great
city here, we have a great amount of
dedicated city employees. Uh, and what
we're looking for is some strong
leadership and I think Greg will do
that. I thank you.
Thank you, Sasha. I don't see any more
requests uh for citizen input. So, with
that, Councilman Graham,
um, wasn't quite ready to speak here.
Um, your name was on the board. Did you
press the button, but it just, you know,
it was Don't press the button. Don't
press the button. Press the I pressed
people's buttons. Um Um, there's going
to be a motion here to um I believe to
uh hire this is kind of a question for
the parliamentarian to hire Mr. Kaitton.
And that motion um is not going to be
made by me, but I I'll just speak to
Greg Kaitton real quick and his hiring
and then we can make that motion. Is
that okay?
Yes, absolutely. The you know, one of
the grievances of the prior city council
um
was we didn't I I know this because I've
been on the you know, I've seen this. uh
we didn't we were always concerned about
bench
strength. Um you know some people say
some you know corporate speakers they
say that you know the CEO should be
spending 10 20 50% of his or her time on
developing a successor
and bench strength is crucial critical
for an organization's
future. So we did a search
and we paid over $50,000, a national
search. We looked far and
wide. And we didn't do that search to
fill an assistant city manager position.
We did that search, it's going to be
said that that was an interim that was
an assistant city manager position or
I've heard it said that is true. had
filled an assistant city manager
position but with the knowledge and
intent to find a successor for city
manager. We went through that
process. We like I said we we searched
high and low far and wide. We found Mr.
Kaitton. Mr. Kaitton has managed high
performing cities that are similar to
Scottsdale. I would consider Ora Valley
a similar profile to Scottsdale. So he
and we know that he knows
Arizona. We've had a l we've actually
had the luxury of doing a test run with
Mr. Kaitton over the last few months,
haven't we? That's right. We've seen him
in just a brief time flatten the
organization. We've seen him cut
duplicative
positions, re in create some
efficiencies with the org
chart. We've seen him totally revamp the
budgeting process. We see him in
budgeting meetings every week. Annie's
here with the with the brick, I called
the brick, the budget review commission,
scouring and analyzing and digging into
the
spending. We've seen him demonstrate a
strong working relationship with fellow
charter officers, including legal and
treasury, which I think is crucial for a
high performing city.
We've seen him affirm the value of
inoffice work by addressing some of the
COVID era remote work
excesses and we've seen him widen and
deepen the city's communication channels
with both the city council and with
residents and uh so I'll conclude my
remarks with that but um when a motion
gets made I'll be uh supporting uh the
hiring of Mr. Kaitton. Thank you.
Thank you Vice Mayor Dascus.
Thank you, Mayor Barowski. Um, I'd like
to echo many of uh Councilman Graham's
statements. I really appreciate that Mr.
Kaitton approaches the city with a a
business eye. What can we do to be more
efficient? What can we do to be more
customer serviceoriented?
Um, one of the things that a charter
officer said to me is that a city
manager really should be balanced
between their activities that they do
internally for the city as well as
externally. And we may have um had in
the past, you know, an imbalance. And
what I see with Mr. Kaitton is that he's
very focused on the operations of the
city. Some of the things that he gets
excited about are improving our roads,
which I think is very important. Um, but
something that's often overlooked. We do
have a lot of potholes. We need to fix
it. Mr. Kaitton is very excited about
doing that. Um, I love that about him.
So, yeah. So, um, you know, with his
focus on the city, I think that's very
important, but also the balance that was
mentioned to me by the charter officer,
um, I have had several outside partners
reach out and call me and say, "We
really appreciate his customer service
focus, um, and resolving our issues and
not saying, well, this is the way we've
always done it," but saying, "What is
the problem?" and thinking through a
creative solution of how we can help.
So, I really appreciate that. So, I'll
make a motion to um appoint Greg Kaden
as a city manager effective April 19,
2025. Authorize and direct the mayor to
execute April 9th. April 9th, 2025.
Authorize and execute and direct the
mayor to execute contract number 2025
068 COOS, which follows the template
contract set forth in the agenda
materials on behalf of the city of
Scottsdale with the following additions.
The contract set sets forth the mayor's
annual base salary. I'm sorry, the city
manager's base salary. Sorry,
Lisa. The city manager's base salary at
$369,000 and provides that in the event
of termination, a severance payment in
the amount of six months of his annual
base compensation will be paid under the
standard terms and provides all standard
employee benefits for which employees
with 10 years of service are eligible.
Second. Or did you want to second?
I retract my second. So, Council Member
Littlefield. Yes, I will second that.
And I'm very happy to do so. I've uh
watched Mr. Kaitton work over the last
few months as the interim city manager
and I think he has done a superb job.
He's fixed a lot of problems and he
fixed problems that I wasn't even aware
was a problem until it was fixed. I
think he will be an excellent city
manager for our city and he'll do a fine
job. And thank you.
Thank you. I don't see any other uh
speakers on the board. I just want to
say that I've been um I've been candid
about my reservations uh when it comes
to abandoning the search that we had
originally um agreed to do. And I I
still do feel strongly about that. I um
having said that, I I think that uh uh
Greg Kaitton, you've done, you know,
you've been very responsive when I've
asked you to be with citizens and um I
am going to support your nomination
tonight as a as a showing of support and
huge encouragement that you will respond
equally to all the council members and
all the citizens wholeheartedly and
faithfully on behalf of the city. So, I
wish you the best of
luck with that. Uh, please register your
vote. Thank you very
much. Congratulations, Mr. Kaitton.
All right, we have one final uh mayor
and council item before we close tonight
and that is let's see
here. I think it was Councilwoman
Whitehead.
Uh oh, it's a petition. It's not a
petition. No, it's a
You're confusing me. I don't
It's Councilwoman Whiteheads. uh
um mayor and council item
here to direct the Do you want to speak
to it? Go right ahead. Sure. It's been
so long I I can't remember either. Um to
agendaize an item for discussion and
possible action related to the human
relations commission and diversity
related programming.
Um, what I'm interested I think if we
can all remember back when former mayor
Sam Campana spoke this evening, she
spoke to exactly what I'm trying to do
here. We have a we we eliminated
uh the DEI office and programming
without any clarity. staff did try to
come up with a memo which basically said
we can no longer use the phrase
Scottsdale for all. I don't think that's
the intention, but it points to the need
for our residents to have a deeper dive
on this and come up with something that
really does meet what I think all seven
of us agree on and that is Scottsdale is
for all and we just need to identify the
best programs. And if there are programs
that are no longer needed, we need some
guidance. So, I'm hoping that this
council will support this discussion and
send this over to um our human relations
commission to evaluate and perhaps give
us some recommendations. So, that's in a
nutshell without reading verbatim what
I'm asking for. If you want me to read
it verbatim, I would. No, that's okay. I
think we get the draft. Okay. Thank you,
Mayor. Uh so, Madame Mayor, can I just
ask one just a procedural question?
Sure. So, how was this pled to get on
the agenda? It's polling now to get on
the So, it was Councilwoman Whitehead,
Council Council Person Whitehead was
able to just present this to be pulled
at the council point blank and and doing
it this way as opposed to polling
beforehand. Okay. Thank you. And that
happens frequently, by the way.
No. Uh-uh. Not at all. But anyway,
nonetheless, let's uh let's take a
motion on that if anyone's willing to
offer it to either direct the city
manager, well, you know, the choices.
Direct the city manager or charter
officer, excuse me,
uh to agendaize the item for a future
meeting or direct the city manager or
responsible charter officer to
investigate the matter and prepare a
written response or three, take no
action. So, which motion are you going
to make? Uh yes, thank you. I I did
leave off the critical part. Um my
motion is to direct the city manager
um to agendaize this item for a future
meeting. So that's my motion.
And I'd like to second it. Point of
order. Can I make an alternate motion at
this time? Yes, you can, Councilman
Graham.
I can do that. Okay. I'll move to direct
the city manager uh or chart or
responsible charter officer to
investigate matter and prepare a written
response to council.
Second speak to that. I I I will support
that as well.
All right, we have a motion on the
table. All those in favor, please
indicate by I or yes button.
All right.
That motion passes unanimously. Thank
you. All
right, that concludes our regular agenda
and as indicated as at the opening, we
are now recessing to uh exe back into
executive session. So, thank you all for
being here.