Development Review Board - June 12, 2025

Go. All right. So, uh, good afternoon
and welcome to the Scussell Development
Review Board public meeting. The purpose
of the development review board is to
maintain the quality of development in
Scottsdale by reviewing all of the
design aspects of a proposed development
and the relationship
of its design components to the
surrounding environment and community.
The board also reviews all preliminary
plats for subdivisions to assure
conformance to policies and ordinance
requirements. The agenda, the agenda
consists of the roll call, public
comment and non on non-aggenda items,
administrative report, minutes approval
um of the prior meeting and action
items. A roll call vote will be taken
after each item's motion. The liaison
will call each board member's name to
indicate their desired vote on that
item. After the vote has been counted,
the liaison may read out the final vote.
Citizens wishing to speak during public
comment time or to speak specifically on
an agenda item may fill out a blue
request to speak card um at the staff
table before the agenda item is to be
discussed.
Citizens interested in submitting
written comments on any item can submit
a yellow written comments card in person
at the staff table prior to the
beginning of public testimony. When
called, please come to the podium, state
your name and address, and then begin
speaking. Groups wishing to speak should
elect a spokesperson to represent the
views of the group to facilitate the
meeting. Your comments will be limited
to three minutes for individual
speakers. One additional meeting for
each additional individual presenting at
the meeting who has contributed their
time to the representative speaker up to
a total of 10 minutes. I remind our
audience that the board's review relates
to design matters and does not include
considerations of existing zoning
district designation, zoning
entitlements or allowed uses within the
zoning districts. The board's motion may
be to approve to approve with modified
stipulations to or to deny the request
or to continue the case. So, thank you
for your interest in time. Uh, now we
can begin with the roll call.
Councilwoman Whitehead here. Vice Chair
Brand here. Commissioner Scarboro here.
Board member Paser.
Board member FE.
Yes. Board member Mason. Yes. Board
member Robinson.
Okay. By present. Thank you. Okay.
Great. So, obviously we don't have a lot
of public comment, so we're going to go
ahead and skip that. Um, let's get an
administrative report, please. Hi, good
afternoon. Thank you. And Councilwoman
Whitehead and members of the board.
Mayor Tessier here filling in for Brad
Carr. Um, just want to let you know that
um the next development review board
hearing is scheduled on July 10th. There
are four items on the agenda, so we
appreciate you being here and please let
us know if you can attend to make sure
we do have a quorum because I know that
is around the holiday dates. The
subsequent hearing date to that is July
17th. So again, just keep those dates in
mind with the holidays coming up. Um,
also it sounds like we don't have any
public cards or speaker cards for any of
the agenda items today. So that
concludes my administrative report.
Thank you. Um, thank you and thanks for
filling in for Brad. Thank you. All
right. So with that, we have to approve
the minutes from the June 5th
Development Review Board meeting. Do I
have a motion?
I will make a motion to uh move to
approve the regular meeting minutes of
the July of the June 5th, 2025 bill and
review board meeting as presented.
Second. Great. Let's have a uh roll call
vote.
Councilwoman Whitehead, yes. Vice Chair
Brand, yes. Commissioner Scar Bro, yes.
Board member FE,
yes. Board member Mason, yes.
And Robinson may now be on. Robinson,
are you here?
Yes, I am. Okay. And what is your vote?
Oh, yes. Okay. Thank you. Motion passes.
Okay, great. So, today we have one item
and it's on consent.
Does anyone up here want to speak to
that or make any uh changes? Yes, I have
I have questions for the applicant
regarding building design and uh
materials. Okay. So, with that, I would
recommend that we do a presentation. And
do we want a staff presentation? Just is
there anyone on staff and then also the
applicant?
Staff's available if you wish to Yeah,
let's have a staff presentation. Thank
you.
I should state for the record what we're
on here. We're on a consent agenda item
61D 2015 number 71 Scottsdale PU 3 torch
club just for the record. Thank you. Go
ahead. Thank you uh Councilwoman
Whitehead uh vice chair brand and
members of the board. My name is Chris
Zimmer uh planner here with the city of
Scottsdale. And here I'm ready to
present to you one Scottsdale planning
unit number three torch club or Nogan
Villa
61DR 2015 number 7. Uh just kind of go
over a quick uh understanding of where
the project is. It's located in the one
Scottsdale uh master plan development
just north of Legacy uh south of
Thompson Peak Parkway and east of North
Scottsdale Road. Here's a closer uh
image of the proposed site. It's just
south of the new medical office building
that was constructed there uh about a
year ago.
Uh subject site. Here's the site plan uh
here proposed in front of you. It's for
a 15,700
uh plus or minus building. uh three
stories um and it does conform to the
medcap um and design guidelines as
approved in the master plan medap.
Here's a landscape plan showing the
proposed landscaping for the project.
And then here are some building
elevations with the materials.
uh top would be the south elevation,
bottom is the east elevation
and then on this slide the north
elevation is on the top and west is on
the bottom.
Uh this is just another closeup of all
the uh material boards uh or materials
being proposed on the building.
Here's some perspectives of the proposed
site.
And then the action again is recommend
approval uh from the development review
board uh for the one Scottsdale planning
unit 3 torch club Nogan Villa um for a
site plan landscape and uh DRB criteria.
That finishes staff's uh presentation.
Happy to answer any questions. and the
applicant is here and has a presentation
as well. My I'll I'll just state what my
questions specifically are. They are
with regard to the the custom brick
panel material and just understanding
what the custom brick panel as well as a
couple questions about u a roof line
slope that's represented on the project
as well. Sure. I'll let the uh applicant
come up to speak about the materials and
any elevations that you guys have
questions on.
Do you guys want to hear a presentation?
Uh, council member Whitehead and members
of the commission. My name is John
Gillespie. So, I'm a attorney with the
Rose Law Group and 7144 East Stson.
We've just been assisting with the the
development project, but Naveen with
Path & Gay Architects is is the one
who's probably best suited to answer the
the specific questions um there. So, I
think he's done a really nice job with
um creating a a nice building in in a um
a good development part of the town that
or part of the city that we're we're
seeing good growth and and excited to to
have you have looked at it. And uh
Naveen to answer that question about the
roof line and the um that material
selection.
Thank you, John. Um thank you board.
Thank you. This is Naveen Pathing,
Pathing Architects, uh Phoenix, Arizona.
Um any questions? Um, yes. Uh, sure.
First of all, I think before we get into
the the building material, it looks like
you have a pretty wide variety of of
roof pitches on the project. And I'm
just curious about
why there wasn't a decision to
consolidate the the pitch and the slope
of the roofs to a single one. It seems
from a clarity of design, it seems.
Oh, I think I'm not sure what the It
seems like even on the elevation you can
tell that you've got Well, we were kind
of getting up on the height up there on
the top. Oh, okay. So, you're and I
think we were trying to keep it like a
foot or two under u just for safety. And
I guess we could we could pitch it more,
but we tried different different
iterations, but if the lower roof um
needs to be matched to the upper roofs,
we can. It just kind of looks I would
just it's it's a minor issue, but I
would just point it out to maybe work
with staff, but it looks like you've got
kind of a host like a mansered type of
roof on one portion that has a fairly
high pitch and then you've got certain
sections that have a what looks like
more of like a 3 and 12 um pitch or a
lower pitch in and it's all in the same
building and it just I didn't know if
there was a very specific reason why you
had No, I think on the on the back side
we've had to let me see um on the back
side we've had to put some air
conditioning units which I wanted to
make sure that on this because one side
of it is threetory the other side is
twotory um and above that we have kind
of a we've created a cavity for air
conditioning units and that's one of the
reasons why we had to kind of keep it to
that level and then on the top level
we've sort of tried to make sure we
we're under all the restrictions that we
have. Um okay so I appreciate the
explanation about the reasoning behind
that. My next probably much more
important question is about the building
materials. You have called out here a
custom brick panel and two iterations of
different sizes of a custom brick panel.
Um, and it just it's it said painted,
but I'm wondering who is the is it truly
a brick panel or is is this the material
that is the brick panel? No, no, it's
not a brick panel. It's actually a
master wall system which is actually a
very um very durable and the master wall
is like a highdensity stucco but you can
actually make it in all kinds of
different forms. And so we're going to
basically match it to make sure that all
the all the exterior panels are actually
panelized. So they're they're actually
panels that are actually placed on but
they're made on factory and then placed
on site. Okay. I would
I will just say that I have a problem
with submitting this and calling it a
brick panel. It is well it is it's a
it's a it's a hard surface that's on but
I don't think it's a but brick
specifically refers to a clay
manufactured modular unit. And I would
say a more accurate description of your
material is it's a foam based synthetic
stucco application with with a faux
brick pattern that's embedded into the
synthetic stucco. Is that correct? Okay.
Yeah. I I mean it says custom brick
panel and when I hear brick, it's a
brick patterned foam panel and not a
custom brick. So when we're looking at
something, when you see something on a
page that says brick, we're assuming
that this is a masonry based project and
this is not a masonry based project.
This is a foam based project with
synthetic stucco and different patterns
across it. But it's okay. Is is that
correct? As I'm looking at the material
board here. Yes. And this is and and I
think that's just a sample that we got.
So the one to the right is actually the
the actual panel that's actually made.
Okay. The one to the right. Yeah. The I
think this Yes, that one. Now, are these
individual panels? Yes. Individual foam
pieces that are compiled and then joint.
It's the ones to the corners. Yes. Okay.
So, there's there's a pattern in the
center and then you have the corners
that are all individual pieces that
actually get attached on. Okay. So, I'll
just ask staff,
were you aware that this was not a
masonry project?
Councilwoman Whitehead, uh, Vice Chair
Brand, we were not okay. So, I don't
know. We use a lot of I mean, this is a
it's not the end of the world, but I
think it's just a misrepresentation when
we talk about materials. And the and the
term brick would makes staff think that
you are using brick. And from a quality
and material standpoint, what we look
for here in Scottsdale is a mixture of
foam based synthetic stucco materials,
but we always require some sort of
masonry accent or masonry material that
is a veneer. It's easily replaceable to
masonry. So, we could definitely use the
whole building is steel and so we can
it's not it's not wood studs or
anything. So, we the the replacement of
um we're just looking at cost structure
just to be honest. Yeah. But I think
brick could be replaced easily for even
even a concrete structure could be done
as a f as a as a veneer to the building,
but it could be brick or masonry for
sure. Right. I'm just trying to
understand actually get a a good picture
in my head about what's actually being
proposed. We have samples on here, but
that's actually not a sample of I in my
head I know what a what a pre-cast uh
corner medallion or coin looks like and
how it folds together and how the
joinery works.
I did actually didn't know if this was a
if this was a foam jointed material like
you're cutting the joints in the foam
like you would in a
foam. So it's individual foam units.
Yes. that are faux casted. Yes. And then
then they're beveled and you've got a
and they're placed in there as a grout.
Yes. Okay. I would I would definitely
want to see what that
the the reason why is that for us to
approve or for me to feel comfortable
approving something that's a faux
material.
There's there are some really bad ways
to do faux materials. And that's why we
went with a company called Master Wall.
And they're they've done all kinds of
stuff in Vegas and we've done a lot of
work with Vegas. So basically what it is
is it's actually a panel that actually
gets individually placed based on the
building and they cut all those pieces
and get it shipped and then they install
it on site. I would want to see the I I
think the concern here is the depth of
the joinery and how well the material is
is being done and I just and from a so I
just
the my basic notion is that I think the
design is is wellreceived. I I like the
design. I'm concerned that the materials
as they're being talked about feel like
they may be misrepresented. if this was
actually a thin brick um applied
material like and you actually had a a
masonry thin brick material that was on
here um and you had a I know there's a
bunch of um custommade manufacturers of
of stone substitutes if you're actually
using real stone or using a GFRC some
sort of other uh foam B or anyway if we
had some of those samples here I would
feel a lot more comfortable approving
this we could easily send those. I think
I so I'm
vice chair Jeff, you know, Brent, I
wanted to make sure I'm honest as
possible of what we're going to do and I
think we have done different I'm trying
to find another rendering that we had of
the bottom finish and we've had samples
sent over but it wasn't the same color
and it has the deep grouts of what it is
and how they're placed and if that's
something we need to do we can
definitely do it but also I think that
the the stonework could easily be
changed to stone as needed right and if
that's the recommendation of the City of
Scotsdale, we'll do it. Okay. Yeah,
that's that would be my I I don't
necessarily know that we want to dictate
exactly what it is, but I Right. And I
think the design is okay, but the here I
think these are all each panels that are
actually step stacked up. Okay. Oh,
I think so. Yeah, I think that rendering
was fine, but that's okay. Yeah.
Yeah. As you can see, these these corner
pieces are all laid in piece and then
all these lower level is all basically
stacked. And the and is that surface and
the foam depth of the corner medallions
is it proud of the Yes. recess. Okay.
So, these are I'll be honest, these are
the type of things that sometimes we'll
see on this panel and it looks like it
in the in a rendering and then you go
out on site and it's all a flesh. No,
no, it won't. And it was like and
somebody just did a score like
essentially just did a faux finish that
accent the corner and we're like well
this looks and I think the the the
sample to the right is actually a really
thick piece that actually comes off and
actually they piece they put panels and
they stack them as they go. So you'll
have the base coat which is this piece
here with all the grooves and everything
within that and then these get added on
to the edge. So the lower level is
actually all stacked with the grooves
you see. I think uh um Mr. David Mason
there had asked me to but those are
reveals in in in the in the design. So
in the rendering also it's actually sits
back and you have these reveals in is
this the detail of the brick? No, it's
that's just the main one. The one to the
right is actually the stacks the stack
pieces. There's another piece. But what
is this a sample of? That's that's
inside.
So that is the field that you're calling
the um I think it's the uh custom brick
panel that's stained to match mist. Yes.
Yes. That's so and even with with this
panel you can see on the panel that
there's not a depth of joint in the foam
on this. This is the joint that you're
pro that you're crafting the brick in is
only done in the thickness of the
stucco. It's only done in a plaster. So,
it's it's a 16th of an inch deep of a
joint. And it's not a I I don't think
that when this is up on the wall. Yeah.
From 50 ft away, it's going to read like
a textured stucco. It's not going to
read like a brick. It won't read like
brick. There's no way because it's also
I don't think you're going to have a
different uh an accented or painted or
or grout color. It's it's a pattern and
a synthetic stucco. And again, that's
why I don't like the description of the
material is that is a patterned stucco
finish. It is not a brick panel. So, um
I think that this project is very very
attractive and I really like the design.
I like the massing of the building. I
like everything that it is doing except
I have doubts about the authenticity of
the materials that have been that have
been shown. I would I would I would be
okay with approving this if you could
work with staff on on having a material
pallet that is more in line with what we
insist on uh buildings that are along
Scottsdale Road and North Scotsdale
along this corridor which would be
consistent with them. Sounds good.
Uh thank you. Are there any other
comments?
Sure. Okay. Yes. Thank you,
Councilwoman. Um as I'm looking at it,
I'm curious. Was there I don't think I
saw a sample for the wall. The wall goes
all the way around this project. Was
there a sample provided as far as the
The wall is all is all concrete. Yeah.
But we don't have a sample of that. It
doesn't Is this Is this a Is it integral
collar? What What is it? Is it split
face? Is it smooth? Is it a combo? No,
it's smooth and and split face in the
combo with a with a concrete cap on top.
Okay. So, it's a Is it masonry? It's
It's masonry. Yes. with a stone finish
on the exterior. Oh, so there's a stone.
And this is for the exterior wall that
goes around the entire project. Yes.
Okay. I
uh I agree with uh Vice Chair Brand in
the fact that I I feel like we don't
have enough information from a materials
perspective. I know that he'd be
potentially okay with moving forward. I
think I would not at this point. I don't
think we have enough information from
you. Uh, as far as the design, I I
personally don't understand how this
this design, this architecture. By the
way, it's a beautiful building. I just
have a hard time seeing it in
Scottsdale, how it how it complements
adjacent uses around it. The medical
office to the north, the hotel to the
south, the residence to the east.
I like this. This looks awesome. I just
am trying to find
what elements here are compatible with
what's around it. When I saw the one
perspective that had the sunlit exposure
on it with the nice brown tones there at
the bottom. Yeah, I like that a lot. At
least then it has more of a
u southwest feel to it. It has a nice
brown tones to it. It still has the the
dark roof, the the light field and and
wall elements, but it just has a better
feel to it with that warmth. Uh so for
me I would like to have this come back.
I would like to see a new materials po
board created. Okay and that's after you
work with staff uh and really dial in
the old the different elements that need
to be on this project in terms of
masonry or brick that complement your
your stucco and that you're suggesting
here. Uh so I think this is in the right
path. I I like the use. I like I I
really do like this project. Uh, I just
would like to see a little bit more.
Thank you, Commissioner. Are there any
Okay, go ahead, board member Mason.
I do agree with the frame on the bottom.
It looks very attractive the way it
sticks up. I was concerned about that
particular wall which is facing us right
now, which is the eastern wall. It's
very monolithic and although they have
the effect of lights to give it some
sort of depth, I don't think those are
actually going to be visible during the
day.
And I thought it just a little bit
monolithic as opposed to the other walls
which appear to have some character or
some uh some columns thrown in along the
way to give it some variation. Right.
These down here. Yeah.
And also I want to clarify that the the
gate which is shown as right now
nonse-through was indeed going to be
see-through as you had discussed.
Uh also my question on it was looking at
the upper perspective of the roof and
lower perspective of the roof. The upper
perspective is a lighter color which
tends to I think be more in keeping with
with a lighter happier southwest feel
than the darker roof. Got it. That was
my thoughts on it. Yeah. I think that's
what we had the sample for the lighter
and the darker. So, those are anodized
bronze on the windows and the and the
little um and the canopies here. And
then the top is actually a metal metal
finish, but it's the one that's more the
lighter lighter gray.
And the other thought I had on it was
looking at at your particularly your
your corners. Uh they appear to be, you
know, some sort of pop out effect with a
mortar difference. And you said that was
only shading. Is it going to actually be
deep enough to create a shading effect
to create the way it looks on your
perspective there?
Which one, sir? Look, if you look at the
corners on your perspective and the
lines Yeah. clearly defined lines
and if is there going to be different
colored grouting or they are they
actually going to be recessed in these
these are shadows will show. This these
are recessed. So they will be they will
be they would sit proud of it. And then
these corners also actually are are
basically about about an inch or half
inch past what where it would be. So you
would have a flat pane and then this
bottom this bottom would be completely
stuck out more than than the field. Mhm.
So these are all these are not grout
joints but these would be sort of recess
reveals all the way around the building.
By recess you can be you say about a
quarter inch or half inch or so. about
quarter inch to a/ inch. Yes. Okay. So,
you will get some shadowing effect. Yes.
And that's why we had the other material
that's actually thicker than the regular
stucco that we had. And I think that's
the one that's actually going at the
bottom. And they're all panels that are
stacked.
Well, I say I like everything except I
think that the uh eastern wall is not u
just too monolithic.
And we we will take that yeah we will
take that into consideration and add add
column pieces on this.
Great. Councilwoman Whitehead, sorry to
interrupt. Just for formality purposes,
would would you mind just moving this to
the regular agenda just for the purposes
of the discussion and then make a
motions. Yeah, do that at this point.
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. So
um yes. So I will say that we're no
longer in consent. We have moved this
item to the regular agenda and I
appreciate this discussion. Uh let me
check in on those that are um that are
online here. Uh let's see. Board member
Faki, I think he's there. I think maybe
some of his kids are too.
No, this is not my kids.
Yeah, but they're not my kids though. I
don't know. I had mine were muted, but I
don't have any question on this case.
Okay. Sorry to I thought it was cute but
I somebody's kids maybe it's board
member Robinson. Are you there? And
would you like to weigh in?
Yeah, I um just would like to say that I
agree with everything that has been said
so far and I um would have raised some
of the same issues that um Vice Chair
Branch raised and so I am in agreement
moving it to an agenda to be heard at
another time. Okay. Okay. Um, well,
okay. So,
I I've always learned so much from this
group. I appreciate that so much. I
guess just overall I kind of wondered
too and I think that's been addressed
here is just uh we have a lot of lovely
buildings, but it's always how does the
building fit with its surrounding
buildings, right? Because that's the
key, but that's been addressed. So, I'm
not going to belabor that.
It seems um that this board would like
to continue this. Is that what I'm
hearing from um Commissioner Scarboro?
Okay. Um can we have and and I have a
question. If we are going to continue um
the next meeting was July 10th, but
we're just let's see we're what's what's
today's date? We're July and we're just
like a month away. Okay. I mean, is
there is there value in trying to make
it sooner? Is there or is that just not
going to happen? That can't happen.
Okay. Well, with that, I'll let um I'll
let the vice chair make a motion. Oh, do
you have something you'd like to add?
Oh, I I was just going to note that
because you do have a busy July agenda.
Um, I think we've heard really good
comments on what and spec specificity of
what needs to change with the design and
what the materials how they need to be,
you know, substituted in some places and
and looked at closer. Um, happy to work
with your staff to implement those
comments if if the the uh, you know,
board is inclined to to to go that
route, but defer to you, of course, on
on whether you want to have it come back
to you. I'm I'm just going to say I I
think it's okay. I'm going to make a
motion to continue to the to the July
9th 10th 10th 10th agenda. Um but I
think it's okay if it's on the consent
agenda. So if you've worked with staff,
it's probably going to take a little bit
of time to work with staff to get the
right material balance in a few of the
issues that you've done here. And then
I'm I'm hoping that it's we've got
clarity on that uh with the material
pallet and it'll show up on the consent
and we'll just it won't it won't um I
don't think it'll adversely affect the
agenda if we're adding to it as a as a
consent item. But hopefully that's
there's there's enough time there to
work with staff um to to get the
material questions handled. Um so the
question up here is is that enough time
for you gentlemen? Oh yeah. Yeah. We we
could get we could easily get the
material boards done within a week and
have it submitted back to Chris. Okay.
So, with that, we have a motion. Do I
hear a second? Uh, I'll make Let me
formally make that motion. Okay. Make
formally make your motion. I'm going to
move to continue K61-dr205
number 7 per the staff recommended
stipulations and in uh in order for the
applicant to work with staff on u on uh
board related comments concerning
materiality
um roof pitch and uh wall uh exterior
wall detail. Um,
and hopefully that will be on the agenda
for July 10th. Can I just have a
friendly amendment of just having all
board comments contemplated? I said all
board comments. Yes. Okay. I know you're
calling specifically a few items. I just
want um Yeah, all board comments
including the ones that I could
remember.
Fair enough. And and Bran, may I just
get clarification? Were you wanting
exterior building wall detail or the
perimeter wall detail? just I think the
what was discussed was the perimeter
wall detail and making sure that the
material pallet um had a had better
authenticity and relating to a little
bit of the context of the area.
Correct. Yes.
And I was also looking at the um
addressing the eastern wall to see if
they could make it a little more
interesting than monolithic.
That's I think that's when we were
talking about the perimeter wall. That's
how
second.
Okay. So, we have a motion and a second.
And I guess we'll take a roll call vote.
Councilwoman Whitehead, yes. Vice Chair
Brand, yes. Commissioner Scar Bro, yes.
Board member FE,
yes. Board member Mason, yes. Board
member Robinson,
yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Okay. So,
we'll see you gentlemen in July and
that's the end of this agenda. Staff,
did you have something you wanted to
add? No. Okay. Well, with that, just
thank you all, including the cute kids,
whoever they were for participating and
we'll see everybody in July.
Motion to adjurnn. Yeah. Motion to
adjurnn. Second. We're journed.