Regular Meeting - 11/15/2022 6:30:00 PM

thank you
thank you
to have everyone's attention please and
please take a seat it's very possible
that we're going to hit capacity in this
room this evening and for safety reasons
we'll have to move people out to the
lobby or keep people from coming in but
there will be a place out in the lobby
to sit and observe the meeting for the
evening and that's just the fire law and
the fire code so we have to make sure
that we observe that
we're hoping that we'll stay under the
the number that's
allowed here this evening I will go
ahead and call to order the November 15
2022 Gilbert Town council meeting
we will have a presentation of student
citizen of the month award by the vice
mayor
thank you it's my pleasure to announce
the names of the Gilbert student
citizens of the month the recipients
were nominated by their teachers and
principals for demonstrating good
citizenship and character and we
appreciate the opportunity to not only
recognize these hard-working students
but also to thank all the teachers the
school administrators and the community
and their parents and appreciate all
your efforts to educate and influence
our young residents our schools are
Gilbert's some of Gilbert's greatest
assets this isn't quite as exciting when
we don't have the students physically
here receiving their Awards but we do
have I think a presentation with their
pictures and we'll go through those
foreign
something's wrong with the screen
there we go
perfect we'll begin our student citizen
of the month please enjoy for those of
you who are receiving an award tonight a
certificate and a packet will be
delivered to your school and we will
begin with our elementary schools
from American Leadership Academy Jonah
Shirley if
we are almost there oh there we go those
are cute faces so much better from
Bridges Elementary Ryder Stevens from
Burke Elementary Caitlin Standish from
Carol Ray Elementary Torah fam
from Charlotte Patterson Elementary
Bryson driving Hawk from Christ
Greenfield school Hadley Bissonnet from
Enterprise Charter School Jocelyn Harris
from Gateway Point Elementary Eris toad
soap toad Saudi from Highland Park
Elementary Drew Maxfield from Higley
Traditional Academy Hadley Purcell from
Islands Elementary Amelia Franklin
from Leading Edge Academy Moses Inez
from Mesquite Elementary
Ayla white from Oak Elementary Caleb
orinduff
from Patterson Elementary Maya Mateo
from Pioneer Elementary Evangeline
Martinez from Playa del Rey Elementary
Jackson schindle from Power Ranch
Elementary Gemma Klein from Quartz Hill
Elementary Aubry box
from Riggs Elementary Corbin Shreve from
Santan Elementary Kayla Diaz from
settlers Point Elementary Violet sparish
from Spectrum Elementary Amelia Hammond
from town Meadows Elementary Anika Shaw
from Val Vista Lakes Elementary Isabella
abedini from Weinberg gifted Academy
Beckett Llewellyn
and for our Junior sorry if I bought any
of those names by the way some of them
are are quite difficult
um for our Junior High and high school
students from Campo Verde High School
Sam Villarreal from Canyon Valley Junior
High Elena Gutierrez from Canyon Valley
High School Kathleen tank from Cooley
Middle School Jennifer Hahn from Gilbert
Arts Academy Sophia Valverde from
Gilbert Classical Academy naban Hussain
from Gilbert High School Jordan Cody
from Greenfield Junior High Juliana
sales
from Higley High School Victoria Lithgow
from Higley Virtual Academy Tyler
brebner from Mesquite High School
Abigail Strickland
from Mesquite Junior High Aaron Johnson
Jr and from South Valley Junior High
Alicia Burdine thank you and
congratulations to all our student
citizens keep up the great work and we
are very very proud of you
[Applause]
um town team we have been told that it's
possible that item number 18 the ranch
is going to request a continuation but I
don't have anything formal in front of
me that says that
so I'm asking how do I proceed with that
since I don't have anything formal that
says that do we just move on with a
public hearing item like we normally
would
thank you
next we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance
led by council member telkey
please stand and join me I pledge
allegiance
next we'll have our invocation by Pastor
John Moten of Central Christian Church
hi Pastor thanks for joining us this
evening good to be with you today let us
pray
Heavenly Father we thank you so much for
our wonderful Community we thank you for
our relationships we thank you for the
privilege it is to raise children in
such a wonderful time in a wonderful
place father we pray for all of our
families represented here and what they
mean to you father as we strive to be
and have a safe place for them to grow
up thriving and be adults who are making
great impacts in our communities and
Lori thank you for our law enforcement
and what they do to keep our communities
safe we thank you for their sacrifice
and father finally we thank you for our
community leaders here as they make
decisions may you give them wisdom and
guidance may you give them peace as they
navigate the complexity of leading such
a wonderful Community but all the
challenges that they face Lori thank you
for everyone who's gathered here may you
be honored with everything that happens
here we praise in your holy precious
name and all of God's children said
man
thank you Pastor so nice to see you next
we'll have a roll call by our Deputy
town clerk Martinez
mayor Bridget Peterson present vice
mayor Amy yentes here council member
Scott Anderson
council member Lauren Hendricks
president councilmember young koprowski
here council member Scott September here
and council member Kathy tilkey here we
have a court and present thank you Judy
council member Scott Anderson is joining
us by telephone so we will hear his
voice coming from above
um during this e-meeting this evening
next I'd like to ask for the video about
um retired firefighter Benny Ruiz to
please be played and then I would like
to ask Benny to come down to the front
of the room
I can hear it
foreign
[Music]
training facility
[Music]
because you don't know
where we're connected I think we all are
all are connected somehow
[Music]
my name is
first started in 1985. I remember the
first call there was a trailer park
right there on the north side of Vaughn
in Gilbert and uh for the people that
want to come back home with myself and
Dave Rodriguez you were part of the
first call for Gilbert Fire Department
[Music]
for such a long time
we all say we have
our immediate family and we have our
churches
and we also have the town
I couldn't ask for a better account to
to be a part of to serve more
great
foreign
[Music]
[Music]
[Music]
a little bit better that day that's what
we're supposed to do you know
congratulations
[Music]
here and uh
so enough in me
to keep on going you know I hope
[Music]
tomorrow
[Music]
I'm sure I'm truly blessed that that's
happened in my career
[Applause]
[Music]
thank you
foreign
I attended your retirement party the
other night
when I said to you
that I can't even remember the first
time we met feels like I've known you
for 20 years but I think it was probably
2014 or 15 when I was running for
Council or became a council member for
the first time there are just some
people
that touch you in your lives
and Benny is one of those people
Benny has been an amazing Staple in the
Gilbert Fire Department
he was on the team when I did my first
ride along at station eight
he has faced the greatest adversity of
probably any person that I know
personally
over the years with your family
my daughter knew one of your daughters
both of your daughters actually we
talked about it this weekend
but to have a man stand here in front of
you that have served the public for over
40 years
that is employee number 61
that is badge number five
that was on the very first call ever
made by the Gilbert Fire Department in
the town of Gilbert
is just
it's amazing it's amazing to be hearing
your presence I could never thank you
enough for all you've done for our town
for this fire department because it has
grown up around you and you have grown
with it I know
and there's one thing that everybody
might not know about Benny he takes more
selfies than I do
I saw a video that his family put
together for him and every two seconds
there was a new selfie of Benny
someplace in Gilbert in a fire engine on
a call doing training
thank you doesn't seem like enough
we wanted to be able to bring you here
this evening to give you an opportunity
to thank the community because I know
that's the person that you are
I just want to thank everybody the
community
um
there's so many people in my life I
started back in 1985.
61 employees I was in the sewer
department for two years
this everything goes uphill after that
right
I went I went the next five years in the
in the water department and then my
dream came true
back in 1980 I graduated from Gilbert
High School I'm Gilbert tiger
and uh
I said my best friend Dave Rodriguez
says hey come to a drill because we're
volunteers back then
and uh I went to the drill
I fell in love
I said this is awesome
I went to next Monday and and sat in
front of the chief this is uh Chief I
want to be a firefighter
he says why
I want to help people
I want to do what I can
to do whatever I can to help people
I did it in the sewer department I did
it in a in a water department
I had many calls when and I shouldn't be
saying this but I wasn't supposed to be
helping somebody else but I had to
because that's what I do that's what we
do we serve
I'm thankful for the growth of Gilbert
and what I've seen 8 000 people 270 000
people now it's crazy one station we
have 11 stations now
I I can't I I I can't believe you know
if I didn't change if I was that stick
in that mud if I didn't change and
change with with time then I don't know
where I'd be
but it's so true
you have my immediate family I have my
church family the fire department with
him at the town of Gilbert
I'm proud to be a town of government
employee
I went through some adversity
2015 I lost my first daughter
a year later I lost my second daughter
if it wasn't for my strong families I
wouldn't be here today
I don't know what I would be doing
I tell you
it makes things small
if you've gone through something really
tough
get through anything
and I'm so thankful for the town of
Gilbert and the members of the council
and everybody I am I'm truly blessed
and I can't say
I love working for the County government
it's been a great honor
thank you guys
[Applause]
thank you
I love you
uh Chris Payne could you let us know
what we received from the applicant on
the ranch please so we have it
officially on the record
yes mayor 550
um the applicant through his attorney
um Adam boss continuance request for the
GP 2205 the ranch project and said I'll
just read it it was sent to Kyle muirs
who's the development services director
Dear Mr miras this firm represents the
applicant in the above reference case we
have spent considerable time amending
the plan and consideration of feedback
from the neighbors while significant
progress has been made we think
additional time would be helpful for
both parties accordingly we request a
continuance to the December 13 2022 Town
council meeting signed Adam Baugh
thank you it would be continued to our
one and only meeting that we have left
in the this year would be December 13th
2022.
that's the final meeting for this
calendar year and that would be the last
opportunity that we would be able to
hear this case under state law is the
December 13th meeting 2022.
so um we don't typically take questions
from the audience but this is probably a
great example of how the process works
and
this case because it's a general plan
major amendment has to be heard within
this calendar year meaning it has to be
heard by December 31st of 2022. due to
the former state law that was on the
books when this case was started and
that's been a ruling or a decision by
our legal staff as to how to handle this
case there is new state law in place but
that's not what we're using for this
case that means this case has to be
heard by this Council or could
potentially be withdrawn by the
applicant because there's always options
but it has to be heard by this Council
by December 31st of 2022 we only have
one more formal meeting as the Gilbert
Town Council that is on December 13
2022.
so that would be the last opportunity
for us to hear this case
so this evening we
we will be
entertaining a continuance when we get
to that portion of our agenda and where
you are welcome to make comments during
public hearing but we will not be having
a presentation by the applicant we will
not be doing a rebuttal and most likely
all we would be discussing as a council
is the continuation itself and not the
case as it stands as it was submitted
with the packet to us today it would
just be the continuance that we would be
voting on tonight
so we'll now move on to our
Communications from citizens
we could do that
yeah
okay so
do you want to announce it
we're not taking any more questions from
the audience I think I explained the
case it's very simple we can only look
at the continuance this evening we
cannot just we're not going to be
discussing the case we could we my
council members my fellow council
members have asked if we could bring
that item forward on the agenda and make
that ruling earlier on our agenda so
that you all know that we really are
continuing this case and I think I saw
head nods from everyone that we could
bring this forward at this time so we
could make it right after you do
Communications from citizens perhaps
yeah we could do Communications first
and then we'll move on to the consent
agenda items and we can bring that bring
that public hearing item forward in that
mass motion
um so we we have our a very large stack
of cards most of them are for the public
hearing items but we do have a few for
consent uh excuse me for communications
from citizens
um we are going to do three minutes for
communications tonight I am just state
your name and your place of residence
for this portion of the agenda it is an
opportunity for residents to bring items
of concern that are not printed on the
agenda and so under provisions of
Arizona open meeting law the Town
Council is prohibited from responding to
issues that have not been properly
noticed therefore the council may only
listen to citizens who wish to address
them on non-agenda items and then at the
conclusion of the open cult public
response is limited to individual
members of the council responding to
criticism made by those who have
addressed the public body asking staff
to review a matter or asking the matter
be put on a future agenda
um so when we we ask that when we call
your name you come down to the podium
you you've saved your name place of
residence you can begin speaking we've
got the timer right here and do ask that
all speakers expect and observe common
standards of decorum and courtesy
personal attacks political speeches or
threats of political action are
inappropriate in this forum and our
grounds at the discretion of the mayor
for adding a speaker's time at the
podium I think we only have
just a few
and I'll I'll call them all on Deck
since we just have a few so everybody
knows what the order is going to be but
first Terry Natty
I don't see oh they're sorry and then
Ron
and then James davary
and then I'll I'll name the last three
after
the first couple speakers
Terry
since you forgot to say it my name is
Terry Natty I live in the Gilbert
planning area I'm not a Gilbert resident
but I I do have a Gilbert zip code
so
um we're all here for Betty right
that's not true but I think I can speak
for all of us and say that I'm so glad
we had the opportunity to learn your
story and we should all strive to learn
something from you
so when a person is passionate about
something sometimes their emotions allow
them to make errors or say things that
aren't necessarily true
that's the reason why most the time I'm
up here I try to stick with the facts
when I'm speaking to you all the
unfortunate part that is that facts
could be skewed as well
facts and examples can easily be skewed
to one purpose or another allow me to
illustrate
you all were shown a presentation on the
Ocotillo project on or around September
6th I know this because I was told
doesn't look good for your cause
yet on October 10th
September 6 you were shown October 10th
over a month later my neighbors and I
were shown the same presentation I'm not
sure why it took over a month for us to
be shown the presentation but that
question's for another time
this is a portion of that presentation
and I made copies for y'all if you
wouldn't
um
so we're going to start on that side
okay you've seen this already it's not
new
um
it would have been nice to have the
opportunity to prepare a proper counter
argument but I'm not I'm sure that was
by Design as well
this presentation very much favors
Gilbert's agenda I say Gilbert because I
don't know if it's Town Council Town
management the engineering staff or
someone else perhaps a developer that's
behind the wheel
so first of all I want to say that none
of the writing on either diagram
here is legible
the diagram on the left fails to give
actual angles and is also based on the
driver's eyes being 15 foot from the
side of the multi-use path this is
incorrect in at least two ways
the average parking spot is 16 to 19
foot long with a quick internet search
using this logic and even airing on the
excessive side say the average vehicle
is 19 foot long assuming the driver is
smack dab in the middle of the vehicle
which again is excessive and the
vehicle's front bumper is aligned with
the property line or wall which it is
not in the diagram that puts the
driver's eyes at nine and a half feet
from the front of the car
also two slides down you see nine feet
between the property line and the wall
and the side of the trail where the
image shows it but right up against the
property line and wall
adding the inflated measurement of nine
and a half and the town's nine feet that
makes 18 and a half feet if that is
correct and it's actually excessive then
slides 11 12 13 and this is 14 are all
inaccurate
[Music]
so I apologize I'm gonna run over just a
minute don't allow yourself
to be skewed by things allow the good
people uh God bless I'm sorry like Benny
give selflessly serve others love each
other and your communities don't be
skewed by somebody else's perspective
[Music]
Ron were you
um wanting to speak on 1060
okay can I'll reserve your your comment
card for the public hearing item
James davary
and then after James we'll have Jim
Torgeson then then yes
and Casey Kendall
hi my name is James tavari I'm back here
again I'm a concerned father next month
will be my three year anniversary as a
Gilbert resident
I'm here to ask the Gilbert Town for
their leadership in helping with group
homes
um I spoke in January about a home
coming to my neighborhood that's right
next to a toddler playground
in a park I addressed the concerns of
the tenants that I thought were going to
be there and I asked the town to think
of putting criminal background checks to
these residents to protect our children
I'd like to go on the record with the
town that nobody spoke to me after that
meeting I'd like to inform you that
there have been 25 police reports filed
since April that's eight months ago from
this one home
25. that's an aggravated assault six
other assault filed
drunken disturbance fighting disorderly
conduct and many others these are just
what's been filed again this is a group
home that's supposed to be sobering
these individuals up next to our
children and a bus stop on top of the
toddler's playground and the park
my neighborhood was notified recently
that we now have a level three sex
offender living in this home he's been
arrested three times once this year a
level three sex offender roaming the
streets next to a toddler's playground a
park and the school bus stop
in September in Phoenix there was a
group home where there was a shooting
one of the residents killed another
residence
Reports say the state was notified the
police were notified but nothing was
addressed
I'm sure many know that there was a
group home here in Gilbert that had a
murder in Mesa from one resident on
another last year
my concern is this group home is going
to have an incident where one of the
tenants is going to have an issue with a
child a parent or a caregiver there's
already been a caregiver verbally
assaulted by one of these individuals
living in this home so again I'm asking
the town for their leadership to come to
the community and have a conversation
how we can get the risk away from our
kids and protect our communities because
right now we're letting these unethical
business individuals take advantage of
an opportunity to keep the community
safe and help these individuals that
need help I support Charities back in
New York I'm a board member of an
organization we support sober homes
these are not sober homes we have here
it's businessmen or people that are
taking advantage of our neighborhoods
and our communities and we need to fix
it now
thank you
[Applause]
mayor council
first thing I'd like to say is regarding
Benny to see a human being have that
much joy in his heart and that much
to express it the way he did was
impressive as a human being to see that
so
you're having a friendship with him and
hugging them mean something to him it
really does and uh I was just surprised
to see that to see how much this man
cares about this community
but there are two things I wanted to say
one a little off topic is that if you do
postpone 18 you realize that the 5400
people needed for a referendum will grow
to something like thirteen thousand
so it will be very difficult
that's not lost on me that's a maneuver
but what I wanted to point out is
something that is so silly
as I pull up realizing that everybody on
this this diocese here has had something
printed against them including and so
have I I was I had a big sign of the big
pink torgeson's unstable great sign
um
maybe I am
um
but running for office you get to take
your lumps being an elected officially
get to take your lumps but I look at
this thing with Andrew Adams
he's not running for office
he's not it doesn't hold
an office
seen by the state the city the county
and it says he's a convicted drug dealer
when he was a teenager and convicted of
possession of pot which is now legal
and it seems highly hypocritical that
any of us would condone that I hope
Scott you're taking notes I would hope
that
you guys see this as hypocritical when I
put up signs against the bond they were
taken down in a day because they didn't
like my disclaimer these have no
disclaimer and they're not political
signs so why are we allowing any
individual to be personally attacked and
not only that not really truthfully
attacked I mean animals stand up or
Andrew will stand up and take take
credit for me in a 17 year old Stoner uh
that seems a little strange that'd be
like me putting something out about
anybody here
I could say they beat their wife or
their husband or something it's not
right they're not running for office so
why do we have a double standard where
we pick up political signs which are
supposed to be legal
and we don't pick up personal attacks
that have no name and for a guy not
running an office at least if he was
running for office it'd be valid I find
it just extremely uh hypocritical and I
would think that
the town which should almost be liable
if they don't use the very well-versed
signed police to pick those up over the
next couple days thanks for your time
yeah we I'm sorry we don't actually
allow the Clapping in this portion of
the agenda because we want to
up to me
trying to limit the disruption and give
everybody their time thank you
okay
hi everyone uh my name is Ben my wife
and I have been a resident of Gilbert
for over four years choosing to live
here over neighboring cities to raise
our three children and we have loved it
however just recently our neighborhood
has been affected by a group recovery
home moving in at the doorstep of the
most widely used children's playground
I say affected based on this business
being poorly run
and licensed by Gilbert to be at a
location by the local school bus stop
and where the front yard touching the
pathway leading to the playground
I'm joined here today by many other
neighbors uh concerned some also spoke
like James but I wanted my own voice
I understand that this initiative to
Outsource and privatize these recovery
institutions away from the health
department
and inviting them into residential areas
was Federal I get that not state not
city
however as a city if this initiative has
an adverse effect on the community there
should be action by the City Garner
support by the state to protect
Community rights our very own Chandler
asks for a guideline to be added to this
Federal initiative and got it it's
possible just take action
what I've seen is a head in the sand
approach or it's too hard or can't be
you can't question Federal either one of
these is not the right approach or
attitude there seems to be no
regulations rules or guidelines for
these businesses to abide by given the
sensitive nature of running a business
of this type in a residential area as
though they have diplomatic immunity and
they are taking full advantage of it the
reason I say this is we unfortunately
have front row seats to a particular one
and there seems to be zero care for the
neighborhood with broken bottles
Recovery Home broken bottles right
consistently at the front and patients
roaming patients roaming the streets
intoxicated
to me there seems like profit centers
for the business owners running on the
thinnest cost at the expense of the
neighborhood and gain for their pocket
no rules encourage no costs
does Gilbert have a threshold of police
call outs before revoking the license
they permitted is Gilbert paying
attention as it took the community to
inform the school that their bus stop Is
Now by recovery home in front of it
since they've moved not Gilbert the
community the ask today is to find your
city's strict guidelines and enforce
them
if you are giving them privilege of
running a business in a residential area
don't point the finger at the health
department or federal this is your city
if you do you will weed out the poorly
run profit-driven owners and reward
those that do it properly and respect
the community they have joined
but keep it away from Parks
or give it back to the health department
if the owners can make money it's not a
tax burner for the taxpayers don't
outsourced without regulations so in
ending there is no plausible deniability
now the Gilbert the school that instead
of addressing the situation moved the
bus stop if there is an incident the
liabilities on the city
thank you
[Applause]
good evening Council Casey Kendall
Gilbert resident Vice chair and
commissioner of the Redevelopment
committee for the town of Gilbert
downtown
a recovery house
quote unquote open directly next to the
park that my children play at
two miles north of us the same owner
opened another house since April those
two houses have had 50 plus police
interactions
which include as my neighbors mentioned
seven aggravated assaults 11 arrests a
mutual knife combat fight a man high on
drugs challenging traffic with a Bowie
knife that one is on video
alcohol bottles drug paraphernalia
littered throughout the park and the
neighborhood
additionally warrants have been served
drunk in public violent threats threats
of suicide I could go on but I only have
three minutes did I mention that this is
next to the park did I also mention that
there's not one but two school bus stops
GPS
has been forced to move those and has
been previously said because we notified
them
code for these houses is listed on your
website where is the code enforcement
code only allows for five residents a 2
800 square foot house three bedroom was
gutted rebuilt and now has anywhere from
10 to 12 bedrooms where is Code
Enforcement Town signed off on a
certificate of occupancy for 10 people
code says five why
who is enforcing the code three weeks
ago we were notified that there is a
level three sex offender now living
there did I mention that this is next to
the park and two school buses
coach says no individual
can be deemed a threat to public or
property federal and state law
identifies a level three sex offender is
a direct threat and a risk to the public
who is enforcing our code
with disregard for for Logic the owner
of these houses has threatened our
neighborhood seeking out saying that
he's going to seek out more sex
offenders to put them in these houses I
also have that conversation on video
these houses are popping up all over
Gilbert and they are being operated
under Federal discrimination acts fair
housing disability acts and and
stretching well beyond the means of
those acts and their true intent again I
ask where is Code Enforcement I am
asking for the town the council to
partner with our community and the state
to stop the chaos in our neighborhood
and others like it
before we have another murder like we
did last year and like we did in Phoenix
last week
you have the power to enforce our code
thank you
thank you Casey um
are we able to put this on a an agenda
item as far as Forest study session so
we can
the the group homes human topic that
would be an executive session I believe
but we can't get into that we could
direct staff communication yeah
vice mayor was in control of that I
assumed so thank you so we could bring
this forward study session you could
yeah bring maybe the information from
the police department as well as code
enforcement from planning and then
discuss what the options are
as far as the council goes yeah that's
correct that's probably a great idea for
a study session
um next year when we have new council
members too because it is a topic that
we've been talking about for years and
so I think they probably need to be
informed on what we've learned over the
years I don't know that we'll be able to
squeeze it in before the end of the year
is all I'm thinking sure well in the
meantime having code enforcement reach
out to Residents and look into the
specific incidences
that were described yep mayor council
thank you I have asked Chief Solberg to
follow up with the individuals who have
spoken tonight we'll get Kyle and code
enforcement involved as well and if I'm
hearing the the well the council will
also begin work on bringing this forward
for a study session item
thank you
yes we'll move on to the consent agenda
I have not heard many of the council
members to any items that they wish to
pull
council member Anderson did you have
anything that you wanted to pull from
the consent agenda this evening
thank you Scott I'll be polling item
nine and eleven
but we can do a mass motion on the rest
first
if somebody wants to do that as well as
including the public hearing item
agenda item vice mayor I moved to
approve the uh the consent agenda with
the added item to continue
pardon me mayor Peterson September
um Kelsey would like to reset the
tablets oh please thank you yes I
apologize
yes and just for clarity's sake
councilman September those are items two
through eight
item 10.
[Music]
is that allowed
okay
okay we will because we do have these
different portions of the agenda that
need to be dealt with separately we will
be doing that that public item on the
ranch when we get to public hearing so
we will just councilman September just
do the motion on the rest of the consent
agenda items so all of the items on
consent minus item 9 and 11.
reflective of your motion you're
reflective of my motion thank you it's
our second second
and we will all vote as soon as the
system resets
thank you yes
while we are waiting for this um for our
iPads to be reset to vote
um I need to let people know that we
have
the following cars are illegally parked
and need to be moved immediately
this is from the Gilbert Police
Department and our chief
it would be GD bless 2021 Chevy
Silverado kid cart 20 ton white Toyota
Prius
cjf003 ma'am ma'am
ma'am
ma'am please sit down
ma'am please sit down
please sit down
ma'am
ma'am
[Music]
thank you
[Applause]
we're here to talk about and kick me out
I don't care it's time to talk about the
ranch okay we are here
ma'am ma'am
ma'am ma'am if you don't stop talking
[Music]
foreign
[Music]
I understand everybody's frustration we
do have to try and keep an orderly
meeting the agenda is outlined with
specific portions and they're
we're gonna have to take a five minute
recess if we can't get the meeting under
control because we have to be able to
conduct business
[Music]
I think we can take a five minute breaks
we'll come back to this
[Music]
[Music]
thank you
okay okay
thank you
exclamation point
foreign
thank you
very much
listening
that's it
memory on this motion
yes
okay we're gonna bring the meeting back
to order
I don't have a gavel
we could have everybody please be seated
we'll bring the meeting back to order
okay we hope to do this efficiently we
do have a motion on the agenda or excuse
me on the floor for approval of the
consent agenda excluding item sign 11.
do we have a second
I'll vote
motion carries unanimously we will wait
to hear item 9 and 11 till the end of
the of the agenda or at least after
public hearing and we'll start the
public hearing that's mayor's portion
thank you vice mayor we're going to open
the public hearing portion of our agenda
I'm going to move item number 18.
A and B to the start of our public
hearing portion of our agenda so that we
can discuss that item at this point in
time we have had a request from the
developer as read by our town attorney
and their representative to continue
that item to our December 13th 2022
meeting the developer and the
representative are not here to make a
presentation this evening the only thing
that the council will be addressing is
the request for the continuance
we would be they would be okay if you
still want to do your public comment we
will decrease the time because we have
so many people here wanting to comment
but I will impress upon you that what
you're here to comment on this evening
isn't the presentation that you'll see
in December when you come back because
we know that the developer and many
residents have joined together to work
on a better plan and proposal and to
bring that back in December and I see a
lot of heads shaking no but I know that
there are residents working with the
developer to update and modify this plan
and they requested a 30-day
we will shut the meeting back down again
if we need to
we will we just need to discuss whether
or not we will continue this item
Council should we ask the public to come
and speak on this knowing that they're
speaking on something that isn't going
to be the same in a month
I'm asking for input from all of you
[Music]
I would I would be comfortable if we
proceeded with a limited time frame
given the fact that a lot of this
conversation is going to change
um so if there's is there an ability to
do 45 seconds on our timer I know it's
not a lot of time but because
foreign
I appreciate that everybody wants to
have their voices heard but the fact of
the matter is is this item will I don't
know where everybody is going to vote on
this but if this gets continued and the
conversation gets changed wholesale
um a lot of that that you're gonna have
to retailer those comments because the
Dynamics of this have changed I do want
to give people an opportunity to speak
we have a lot of people here to speak on
other public hearing items too and so
trying to manage the agenda make it fair
for everybody give everybody an
opportunity to speak
if there's you know some agreement as to
doing that we can go through these cards
I've there's a lot of people who are not
here to speak who have filled out cards
so we we do have these as well as people
who
provided public comments to us um
electronically so
feedback from the other council members
I guess
so are we at the comment stage where we
can make comments I'm not clear where
we're at
and I make comments with the council
member now yeah
okay
um
I guess I'd like to speak to everybody
that's here most people are here for the
ranch
um
as I was walking through you just now
while we had our five-minute recess I
spoke with some of you and there seems
to be some thoughts of there was some
effort some malfeasance or some
dastardly deed going on here that we
wanted to delay this
um
I met with a developer this morning uh
early this morning because I had a busy
day
yeah they called me yesterday and they
asked to meet and I said I would meet
with them now
before everybody wants to crucify me on
the way out the developers sitting here
and his attorney is sitting here
the people that I met with are sitting
here when I talked to them on the phone
and they asked me to meet
and again this morning when I met with
them at breakfast
I preface both conversations
with making them aware that I've been
elected to office in this district seven
times many of you in this room must have
voted for me because somehow I keep
getting back in office
and I made it clear to them that I
represent the citizens of Gilbert you
might say represent the town there is no
town to represent I represent the people
of Gilbert and I've done that for a very
long time many of you have seen my name
for years because somehow you people
like to me so I made that very clear I
wasn't there
to kowtow to the developer or anybody
else and although I know some of these
people involved I would call at least
one of them a friend he
he's not an outsider his family's been
in Gilbert for a hundred years and I've
known him for a long time so these are
not people coming in from the outside
just to make a dollar now there may be
people involved that are
and that's why I agreed to meet with
them this morning and when I met with
them
I Then followed that up with speaking to
a number of the people that have been
the most vocal about the ranch now I
know that there's not one person that
represents the ranch there's 200 people
here and every one of you represents
yourself about the ranch
but I can't I probably can't speak to
every single one of you so I went to
ones that have been the most vocal of
meetings and I told them I'd met with a
developer I told them I'd encourage the
developer to
try to make peace in the community try
to work together
don't try to force this vote don't try
to force this happen and
this delay I created and I guess if
that's something that nobody wanted I
apologize it's not the developer it's
not the council it's nobody else
when I was talking to all the parties
everybody on both sides indicated
there's been productive conversation we
seem to be making progress towards
something that may not be perfect but
it's
it's perhaps tolerable or at least it's
getting there we're moving a direction
that might be tolerable that doesn't
mean it's going to get there and it
doesn't mean I'm going to represent
anything other than the voters of
Gilbert that's that's just how it is so
it was my suggestion this morning after
talking to some of the
most vocal people about the ranch it was
my suggestion to the developer as a good
faith gesture
you may think you have the votes tonight
I don't know if you do or not but as a
good faith gesture I asked him could we
put this off to December and let's have
more meetings and when I say more
meetings I told him
don't come back to me in December and
say I had a meeting so therefore support
my project
I don't care if you've got to meet every
single day to try to work something out
that that can be workable then just do
it and
the last discussion we had is they'd
asked me if councilmember tilkey could
join us because they'd had some meetings
with her
I know council member September has been
having meetings trying to work something
out
but this isn't an effort to slip
anything by anybody the intense
frankly I have a life just like you guys
do and even though I appreciate the 1500
bucks a month that I get paid to do this
I didn't spend my whole day on this
for the 1500 bucks I mean I ran for
office because this is what I do my
intents were good when I met with a
developer my intents were good when I
spoke to the people that I thought
were influential in the group and thank
you what I'm seeing here tonight I'm
just I don't even know what to say so
some of you saw me walk into the back
when I came out of the backyard and I
walked up so I went back there and
talked to some of the people
that are involved in the ranch and I
said hey what do you think can we come
to some consensus can we
can we get this group to be a little
more peaceful and respectful because
I'm not trying to create a battle I
didn't have the meetings today to create
a fight and then I talked to the
developer and I said hey I asked you
this morning you know could you delay
this and you agreed to do it and
obviously I seem to have created some
contention then we had a speaker here
talking about if you delay this the
world's going to come to an end and I
don't know what he was talking about
um
but it certainly wasn't anything that I
was aware of when I created this so that
that's where we're at
um
I I didn't set the exact parameters of
what a meeting would be but I can tell
you council member tilkey and I have
commit to participating and helping
facilitate meetings I also spoke with
council member elect Chuck on Giovanni
who's sitting here he said he would
participate he would like to be involved
I'm not saying we have a magic answer
but everybody on all sides that I talked
to
and I fully understand I didn't talk to
every single one of you are here today
and I I thought the people I talked to
had a pretty good grasp where you're all
at
but everybody I talk to is willing to
continue conversation
and realize the developer had the option
tonight to just have the vote now I
don't know if he had the votes or not I
can't tell you I have no I only know how
I was going to vote and I have no idea
whether he had votes to pass it or not
but the fact that he's willing to
communicate
I mean he's here tonight you know you
know he he can see the contention of
what's going on
and that he's still saying let's talk we
want to work in the community we want to
be part of it and let's say one of the
owners has been involved in this
community for at least 100 years it may
be longer than that these are not
outside people running into our
community
so I I guess as far as that if we want
to listen to people tonight or if we
want to wait till next month
and I'm
if the residents want to talk tonight
I'm okay with them talking
um but you're probably going to be more
beneficial to attend more of these
meetings
[Music]
no I'm talking about the meetings with
the developer
I mean I'm happy to listen to you I've
been listening all day long I'm happy to
listen but if we're going to make
changes over the next month we are 24
we probably want to make comments at
what the final product is uh but anyway
that's my comment
well we're going to take public comment
at this point in time vice mayor is
going to run that public comment this
public hearing is open for this item 18
and a and b and you'll be called down
for um Patrick we're going to do a
minute a piece vice mayor said a minute
a piece please
and it'll be called down a few at a time
so that we can move you down to the
podium quicker because we realize it's a
long walk from back where some of you
are standing vice mayor
let me answer her question yeah yeah
eight questions
I understand that but everything about
this case has changed today we are not
going to be voting on this case this
evening
which is not what we will be seeing in
December however
taking this information
transparency is
you hear us
we are trying to make sure that
everybody is heard we're trying to run a
business meeting here to the best of our
abilities and make sure that everybody
has an opportunity to be heard
ma'am if you keep yelling out I am going
to ask to have you removed
and this this won't be the the only
opportunity ma'am
please ask that woman to leave
everybody who filled out a comic card is
going to have an opportunity to speak we
understand the time is going to be
truncated but this isn't the only
opportunity for people to have their
voices heard this isn't the only
opportunity to cut
continue conversation
you don't remember
we're going to get started with our
public comments I understand this isn't
what everybody that people want longer
time to speak I think it was explained
that the you know the conversation is
going to change going forward and
there's going to be more opportunities
to talk directly to the developer and
we'll have more comments if this gets
continued in December as well so we'll
start with the first three speakers
Matt Hill Patty Pomeroy
and Penny burchy
and just as a reminder if you could
state your name and your place of
residence for the record
is Matt Hill still in the audience
yeah we don't we don't yield time on
this part because everybody can fill out
a comment card
Patty Pomeroy
hi my name is Patty Pomeroy I live in
Elliott Groves in Morrison Ranch
two short years ago
citizens voted on a plan for this area
I'm sorry now known as the ranch
I wondered what has changed in those two
years that you feel inclined to go
against the wishes of the people who not
only voted for the plan but also for you
yes you were voted in by the people to
represent us and our best interests you
have been entrusted with a huge
responsibility as our needs are buried
and many
I would like to think that tonight your
intentions are to consider the needs of
the people specifically in the Morrison
Ranch Community
however I have reason to believe that's
not the case
first of all at least two members of
this Council receive significant
donations in July to their campaigns by
both developers and the law firm
representing the developer
is that time thank you Patty
okay that's a joke
wow
it's disgusting
my name is Penny burchie and I live in
Elliott Groves Morrison Ranch and the
general plan uh
for this planned area of development
this was supposed to be part of a
character area and an extension to the
beautiful and desirable Morrison Ranch
the noise pollution the air pollution
the traffic pollution that my family and
neighbors are going to be living next to
experiencing 24 hours a day every single
day is not what was promised to us not
when we thought we would buy the homes
in that neighborhood not when we thought
we would build the homes in that
neighborhood because of the lack of
diversity and lack of General commercial
entities the town of Gilbert will suffer
a major loss in sales tax if a crosstalk
facility is created there the area is
supposed to be a growth Corridor the set
the sort of development that is planned
does not provide for growth it will not
create more diversity of employment or
types of Services of uh for people to
employ it will only allow for Less this
is not a balanced mix crosstalk
facilities do not belong in next to
homes of any value I'm not stopping what
was once supposed to be a shared uh
development we have to give Equitable
time to everybody
you know what let me say this
I'm going to ask each of you
can you with a good conscience the kind
of conscience that allows you to sleep
well at night not just sleep look at
your own self in the mirror with pride
like yourself not just Pride but to also
like yourself the kind that doesn't make
you wonder if you've made the kind of
decision that is a good decision a just
decision can you look at all of these
families right here every single person
in the face can you look at them tonight
all of these people who have been here
tonight and on many other meeting nights
can you look at them tell them that you
actually care not only about your
community but your constituents
each and every person here if they
believe that you care about your
constituents the people who have voted
you in can you look at all of them with
a good conscience and tell them
you'll be fine there's just going to be
a light Industrial Development next to
your homes where your children are going
to be breathing these toxic fumes and
all of your value in your home is going
to be for us think about that can you
put your head on the pillow tonight or
any other night and sleep well with a
good conscience
let's go
[Applause]
I'm gonna make a comment and I know it's
not going to be favorable we haven't
voted on this item yet so you have no
idea how we feel or what comments we're
going to make and I know you think
that's hysterical
[Music]
we cannot vote tonight we cannot vote
tonight and the vice mayor is going to
recess again we can't keep control
meeting and do business like this we
can't this
yeah if we can't get through the
business of the council we're going to
have to recess the meeting
I'm sorry your case got moved because of
this one so you're you will be here
longer because of
18 and 18 a and
[Music]
Bam that's enough please I think if we
can limit public comment to 20 minutes
in totality and if everybody is going to
take everybody else's time that's
uh 25 minutes whatever the total is 30
minutes but if we can't keep to
everybody's relegated time it becomes
unfair for other people who are trying
to have their voices heard too
this is this is just not how public
meetings are run
[Music]
I'm really honestly I I am imploring for
some cooperation
I want to do the people's business
you
but that is going to take the people's
cooperation
I want people to have an opportunity to
speak
the time is still one minute the
microphone is going to be cut off after
that because we can't keep this stop and
go this is this isn't a productive
meeting we'll have Natasha Monahan
foreign
[Music]
and then Jenny Everett
and then Sharon McGraw
good evening I'm Natasha Monahan
resident of Gilbert and Morrison Ranch
thank you for your time
I wish to speak about how the developers
are
uh the land that they had which was used
for their family's dairy farm which was
approximately for 6 500 cows their
predominant purpose for the last 13
years was to have those cows feed from
that land
this rezone is coincidentally occurring
simultaneously with the sale of family
dairy farm which was about a month and a
half ago an example of self-imposed
hindrance on why the land has not sold
converting the land to an inland empire
creates an undue hindrance to the
residents and destroys our ability to
peacefully enjoy our land and homes
in addition there was a recession the
worldwide pandemic at any point
investors could have applied to read
Zone the area these are just the first
applicants to do so the landowner and
the applicant have stated they will only
sell for 300 acre singles transaction
thank you Natasha
thank you
my name is Jenny Everett I live in
Morrison Ranch I was going to talk on
safety I guess the only thing couple
thoughts that we have time for I want to
ask that the council put a stipulation
from anyone obtaining an L27 permit that
would allow semiconductor manufacturing
semiconductor manufacturing
is known for creating human carcinogens
that is not anything that I want next to
my home at all and I ask you as a Town
Council to please take that into
consideration our families our homes
this is so important to us
um
I feel a little bit like we're catering
to the developer at this time which is a
little unfair
um Mr Hendricks I'd like to speak to a
comment that you made you want something
to be tolerable do you want to live next
to something that is just tolerable I do
want to work with the developer I
understand that
but it has to be good for everybody and
tolerable I'm sorry is not good enough
for me thank you
Sharon McGraw and then after Sharon will
have Bill Hurley and then Christian
Chambers
hi my name is Sharon McGraw and I do
live in a Morrison Ranch neighborhood
I'm going to begin because the time is
cut short by quoting the words of one of
the wisest men on our planet
and he said this he said I know of no
safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves and
should we think them not enlightened
enough to exercise that control with a
wholesome discretion the remedy is not
to take it from them but to inform the
discretion by education
I would confidently say that 90 of all
politicians have forgotten the three
most important words in the Declaration
of Independence and in the Constitution
We the People
you folks on the stand were given power
according to the voice and the vote of
We the People it is your responsibility
to serve according to
shrimp
bill
s
Bill Hurley
mayor council
my background is manufacturing
specifically semiconductor Aerospace
electric vehicles which means
batteries lithium batteries
I wanted to give each of you one of
these signs to tell you specifically
what these signs mean when you see them
on the side of a building the higher the
number uh the worse the product is
inside the inside the facility so if you
see a one probably okay you see a three
you don't want a fire you don't want any
chemical leaks Etc generally speaking
the smaller the building the lower the
danger
uh we don't know all the hazard
information from semiconductor companies
because
they have IP and they don't have to give
it up
now when they flush a semiconductor when
they make a chip and they flush that
stuff down the drain that goes into the
water right it gets reclaimed but they
don't get it all out they can put all
the UVC lights at 254 nanometers all day
long but it doesn't take care of that am
I done
I'll be back all right
[Music]
Christian Chambers and then we'll have
Diana Chambers and then Ross Chambers
and then Corey Childs
I'm Diana Chambers Christian's mom and I
would ask if I could go first please
thank you I've spent many sleepless
nights having many conversations with
each of you dreaming of what I could
possibly say you have implored people
tonight to act with respect I would
implore you times a million
to oppose an industrial waste park being
put at the end of my street
in my conversations with you at night I
think about the way that my husband and
I have worked our entire lives to buy
this house we called it our forever home
because we don't want to move ever again
this is our dream and for to dream about
a house that may lose half of its value
we're talking hundreds of thousands of
dollars that's my retirement
that's my livelihood that's my legacy to
my children and that's every single
person's here retirement and Legacy to
their children
that's devastating I dream about talking
to you about that water table that
everyone's referring to here with those
semiconductors I've heard about battery
plants being put in
we cook with that water we brush our
teeth with that water
it's unsafe please
[Applause]
a Christian hello Christian Chambers
off a little bit
of pressure
please let me try and clean water when I
blow my water bottle and brush my
please let my family be safe on the
roads please let me sleep at night
I suppose the ranch and protection hey
home thank you
I hope you were able to hear that
my name is Ross Chambers I was my wife
and my son that you just heard speak I'm
here to talk about the traffic issues
that this is going to present
um
you've heard that this land was always
known for industrial yet the fact that
the original voter ratified zoning has
only 18.6 percent industrial as compared
to the developers now 80 zoning which is
now over 400 percent of what it was
originally zoned for they may speak on
how they're increasing the general uh
commercial and adding Business Park and
the revision but it's by only a fraction
of the original plan a plan that
thousands of homeowners used when
deciding on where to purchase their home
per atom Baugh in the October 5th
planning meeting the ranch is projected
to generate twenty five thousand fifty
nine average daily vehicle trips 13 925
from the commercial component and eleven
thousand one Thirty Four from light
industrial per Mr Bob the existing
zoning only estimates 2902 heavy trucks
the new Amendment will have an increase
of 8 232 more heavy trucks than the
existing zoning trips for the light
Industrial
Trust
Vehicles please please oppose
thank you Russ
after Corey we'll have Tyler Farnsworth
then Jim Torgeson
then Michael Lehrer
hey I'm Corey Childs uh so I'm a used
car salesman and uh a five thousand
dollar donation like my threshold for
corruption would be way higher than that
so I don't think you guys are corrupt
from 5 000 bucks
um when I was 10 I wanted a new BMX bike
for Christmas and uh
Christmas day came and I got a bike but
except for it was a Huffy bike with pink
Speckles and that was like the crappiest
bike I drove it to my buddy's house and
he laughed and he's like dude that bike
sucks so I went home and I was not
trying to be you know a bad kid and
complained to my parents but I went home
and cried my dad came in and he said he
said son what's wrong and I said Dad
Santa messed up man he got me a huffy
I'd rather have my old bike and so the
next day December 26th he went took me
to the bike store and he got me a
fluorescent yellow GT and I did a lot of
jumps on that bike and I'm glad that my
dad did the right thing where Santa
messed up so
thank you guys Taylor
[Applause]
I love that
my name is Tyler Farnsworth I'm a 27
year resident of the town of Gilbert an
eight-year resident Morrison Ranch the
jewel of this great town just two years
ago the voters approved a zoning plan
that you're being us to vote against
tonight should it continue to December
do not allow a change from the voter
approved General plan hold the
developers to the current threshold a
vote for the ranch is a vote against the
Citizens you too couldn't know to serve
and a vote for out of state developers
and law firms that donated to some of
your campaigns please do the right thing
protect the look in the feel of this
town that we so love protect our
property values and don't let this
become a stain on your legacies thank
you
[Applause]
chicken
James Torgeson
hi I'm Jim Torgeson and since I was
going to spend three minutes doing this
I'm going to try and really pare it down
you guys voted 46 consecutive approvals
of zoning changes recently you've
changed over 180 Acres of employment
designated zoning multi-family two
projects come to mind Leonard Warner
wrecker on the northwest corner of
McQueen and Elliott I wonder who
represented those now we're in a
crippling economic situation of trying
to take
and create more industrial and job
zoning and it will be at the cost of
some people I want you to give thought
to these people because these people
haven't been heard for years
and they just need to be heard they need
to be listened to they may not agree
with what you say but they need to know
they're being heard and I know really
most of you probably want to do the
right thing and think you're doing the
right thing whether you are not you know
just to be determined but I don't think
anybody here has malfeasance towards
anyone in this room
and I would hope that uh
you give them that
[Applause]
my name is Mike Lair I am a resident of
Morrison Ranch I have prepared remarks
but will clearly not fit those in one
minute what I wanted to focus on was
some of the discussion that was had at
the planning meeting where it did seem
like there was some significant
understanding by the applicant that this
was clearly incompatible with the
current
Community with the current plan they did
seem to be able to try to make some sort
of concessions and understand where you
all are coming from but I request that
this all happened with transparency and
like Sarah was talking about really
truly trying to take into consideration
the resident's concerns
um and not appeasing these outside uh
investors
thank you Michael and I had two cards
filled out for you I'm guessing there
aren't two Michael layers no it's
probably just the same okay
different handwriting uh Preston yes
chick
and then Jennifer Smith
and then George yogurtin
yogurtson
hello Council my name is Preston yes
chick I live in Morrison Ranch
consider that when a community
consistently rejects projects such as
these
but they keep happening over and over
again it shows us that our leaders are
acting against the interests of its
people and that's not good business and
it's not good leadership
the community feedback sessions have
become a form of entertainment to give
us the illusion that we have influence
over the decisions that were likely made
months ago
this is not a Morrison Ranch problem
it's a Gilbert problem this week we're
battling the ranch next week it'll be at
another apartment or industrial complex
it's tiresome and disheartening that we
have to fight so many fight so hard
against our own town
if the 270 000 citizens unify we can
speak in the only language they will
understand getting boots on the ground
pamphlets to every door and signs on
every corner will put a face to the name
of every leader that votes against our
interests
[Applause]
hello Town Council my name is Jennifer
Smith I've lived in Gilbert for many
years and I'm currently building a home
in the Warner Meadows area I think we
all would love to see Gilbert grow and
Thrive we support this but maximizing
this industrial zoning to the intensity
is not helpful for our community I have
this using this employment capacity of
non-residential land by the metropolan
council analysis we can calculate the
number of jobs per square foot for
certain zoning using space utilization
per job and floor area ratio So
currently with the current zoning that's
been planned the jobs are calculated to
be around 4
265. with the proposal this drops down
to 2952 which is a 64 job loss and lost
tax income year after year and if we
think about the future warehousing has
it becomes more autonomous these jobs
would decrease even more it is more cost
effective to build industrial than
General commercial however this
after George will have Kevin Marvin and
then Brian Mosley hi good evening
um mayor and Council people I just want
to let you know I'm four houses away
from this open uh field that we're
talking about and I understand your
position here we're not talking about
the same plan anymore it'll change I get
that what I do want to understand from
the council what is the actual benefit
to us and to Gilbert not not for this
thing but having it next to us I'm not
against the development
um the the commercial development uh I
just want to know why the heck does it
have to be next to us one of the crown
jewels of your neighborhoods you
wouldn't put that in agritopia you
wouldn't put it next to um Bella Vista
Lakes why would you put that next to us
take five minutes out of your day and
I'm running out of time go look at
Warner Commons look at what those houses
and those people have to look at when
they look out their windows in that
investment that they've made in their
homes so I know we'll be looking at
something different but please keep
those things in mind thank you and your
George yogurtanger
sorry just for the last speaker you were
George yogurtain right okay thank you
thank you
Kevin is Kevin Marvin
Marvin
and I live in Elliott Groves the last
time we spoke we talked about it was
just odd for me that the Planning
Commission still approved something they
said didn't make sense right and so like
right here right there's just not enough
space
there are 461 houses that the Z estimate
on that aggregate is 335 million dollars
and I made this picture to show you know
these massive warehouses next to the
Arizona Cardinal Stadium
right these are two scale
and these are just massive warehouses
and so if you were to hover over one of
these areas you will see how these
houses are right next to you know the
office buildings and the
um the warehouses and if you go down
further you would be in a situation
where you're looking at it from the the
street view of what you might see if
you're one of those people up against it
now
uh by the way uh 15 say of 335 million
is
Millions by voting this you're giving
them 50 million dollars at
after after Brian
after Brian will have Sarah Strazza and
then Daniel streza and then Pat Demario
[Music]
Brian Mosley Morrison Ranch three months
ago for the first time in my life I
decided to become politically active
wrote a flyer about the reasons this was
ridiculous stood out on our street with
a 65-foot tall helium balloon and
explained to my neighbors what was
happening
um
before I didn't even want to put my name
to that because I know what politics is
like and I know how things go but I put
it at the bottom of that that I hope
that we could be civil that we could
oppose it and I would just say that you
know I've tried to be
um good cop as I've like to say as I
talk to people and do things the right
way I've appreciated the chance of me
with all of you or with most of you and
to and to see what we can do to improve
the process but I would just say that
you know yes I've agreed to meet as I've
always agreed to meet with the
developers to talk about if there's a
change but the problem from the
beginning is the developers have felt
loud and clear that the town supports
this meaning the bureaucracy meaning you
and tonight it is on the agenda you do
have the opportunity having read and
prepared for tonight's meeting to say
what you feel about to even if you
granted continuance to say that you
think it should come back with
significant changes please do that
[Applause]
okay good evening Town Council I'm Sarah
Straz I live in Gilbert in good faith
I'm hoping that you will guarantee the
same votes in the referendum in December
that are due now
also in regards to this this is one of
the plans that I went to the table with
I recently met with Adam Baugh and
colemana which is a developer partnering
with indicap who stated they align
themselves with the visions of Indy
cabin values over an hour of discussing
the plan I basically candidly asked them
if they would consider rezoning the
business park and the commercial for
over 40 acres a piece
and they looked me in the eye and they
said no and that's only a marginal
modest 26 of the entire development
really great recommendations including
rerouting this onto Warner Road which
would allow the traffic to be deferred
away from the schools despite it still
being able to go to the lower 202 right
here rather so we wanted to make this
whole Road here
[Music]
more musicians
we should tell you a little bit about
what we discussed that we can make
informed decisions together
remember not making a decision on this
case tonight we're going to discuss the
continuation
no we don't meet him intermittingly
that's what I don't think all of you
don't understand this is the first time
the seven of us are hearing this case
together
I need for you to move on so we can
continue the public comment please thank
you
good evening I'm Daniel Island Morrison
Ranch I'll make this quick and we'll
talk about the people that you're
potentially doing business with Mike
chernin Indie cap owner who claims to be
an industrial only developer it was only
bankrupt at least one company so far
leaving projects incomplete but put up
Cookie Cutter Mass industrial through
other areas like Eastmark to make
matters worse Warren you're also taking
money from hundreds of firefighters and
police officers to the tune of 200
million dollars and lost it on risky
Investments is that something when you
want to do business with I don't
Mike your name was arrogant enough to
tout on an interview in a 2020 YouTube
podcast called the scrappy entrepreneur
and brags about rezoning property with
the help of local politicians
to turn a profit I quote him saying
really you make money either way on the
buy or you buy it at the set price and
then you go create some value to it
rezone it for apartments or something
like that by using our political pull in
order to do that looks like he's doing
that here again tonight what happens is
the developers now found a perfect
Community is exploiting it solely from
monetary gains
foreign
[Applause]
Morrison Ranch let's talk money consider
this if the rezoning is approved and
masses massive warehouses are built it's
guaranteed that Morrison ranch homes
will lose value why should you care you
should care because that reduces the
amount of tax revenue dollar to the town
of Gilbert through property taxes and
through decrease or stagnant population
growth as word spreads of what happens
to residents of Gilbert due to council's
decisions the developer insists that
this plan is the is in the town of
Gilbert's best interest for the future
why because that's what they want you to
believe the developer insists that
there's no other option for this plant
otherwise it would have been sold by now
that's nonsense we know the seller had
need of that land until recently and
made it difficult for potential buyers
with the stipulations all about money of
course consider is a developer in a
hurry to take advantage of government
chip money wouldn't it be prudent to
call the Dallas Texas Town Council and
police department inquire what they
think about working with into camp on
this massive project a project that will
totally disrupt the citizens of an
upscale neighborhood negatively impact
Gilbert as a whole
[Applause]
yeah and also for the record there were
1337 online comment cards received
for item 18 one in support
um obviously the rest of them against
[Applause]
wanted to do
I'm going to go ahead and close the
public hearing on this topic and bring
it back to the council for discussion
Council the item before us is the
requested continuation for this project
to December 13 2022.
if you have any comments or if you have
any comments
or anything that you would like to add
at this point or any questions
for each other may I make a comment yes
absolutely
please please stop shouting out so that
we can actually have a discussion about
the project please
um ma'am I what was her name Sarah
Sarah would would you send me your
comments please and if we could talk on
the phone I'm very interested in hearing
those and I'm sorry we weren't able to
talk tonight so thank you
um
council member Hendricks had mentioned
that I believe there are some people
here that would like to try to come up
with some type of solution that works
for the residents and provide an
employment opportunity within our
community and I've been committed to
work with the residents and the um the
developer along the way and we've seen
some change I do believe there's room
for additional change and I would like
for us to be able to continue this
conversation
I think it is hard with big groups to
really come in to where we make changes
and recommendations and and get
everybody's approval so I hope that as a
group you'll you'll consider the best
way to represent all of you and and be
productive but I am committed to helping
with that I don't know if anybody else
wanted to make comments but if not then
I would make a motion to continue this
to our December 13th meeting
yes councilmember Anderson
[Music]
my question is
for those who came up two weeks ago to
the podium and said there's a win-win
solution here we can find the winning
solution for all parties we just need a
little bit more time
well that almost two weeks ago and now
we're going another month
please please
don't say to the developer is not doing
anything sit down with them and talk
about the stipulations I've seen a lot
of stipulations that he's created based
on input from you keep doing that so
when you get to a final win-win solution
I don't want to hear everybody saying
that you're just totally against the
whole project and then have some saying
well there is a solution we couldn't
find a solution uh please let's work
together and find the solution for this
thank you council member Anderson
any other comments by the council vice
mayor yeah just one comment and this is
just meant as insight for both parties
involved both the residents as well as
you know the the interests of the
developer and and
perhaps the developers have a better
insight into this only from the
standpoint of you know if they've been
watching and Council meetings for a long
time maybe they already know this but I
am a strong advocate of property rights
when it comes to the system of planning
that we have I'm I'm not shy and and
expressing my displeasure with with the
model itself but it is the the model
that we have to work within and so when
it comes to
um my
my own way in which I I look at these I
do find when it comes to
rezoning and specific that the burden is
higher on the developer to to prove that
um
that they are not going to be imposing
negative externalities on existing
property interests who have made their
purchasing decisions based upon
understanding what the landscape looks
like at that time of that static
decision
and so I I do I will be looking for that
information
um that's that's what I I need to make a
good sound decision and that onus is on
the developer to provide that one that
either it's there isn't going to be a
negative and negative externalities on
on the surrounding interests and then is
there a way to mitigate those to
substantially decrease that I'm going to
need those kinds of answers to to get me
to a sense of being able to adjudicate
these property interests which is what
we're trying to do as a body so that's
insight into how I look at this from a
methodology standpoint from a
philosophic standpoint
um so I you know the more the facts and
data both on either side this uh you
know
both on What the residents think those
negative impacts are going to be but
also the higher higher burden for the
developer to show that this isn't going
to since
um you are the one intending to change
what what currently is the planning
situation so take that for what it's
well what it's worth we obviously have
another month to bring something forward
um I know I'm just one vote so whatever
that whatever that means that's how I
look at this
councilmember koprowski
I've attended and watched the Planning
Commission meet Planning Commission
meetings and have been intently watching
this process unfold at every council
meeting I appreciate the resident
feedback that has been received I
recognize that this is a very emotional
issue for residents especially those in
the Elliott Groves neighborhood and I
share many of your concerns
I'm glad to see that some of the plan
has changed from the original plan to
what was going to be proposed tonight
and now we know it will probably likely
change with the content with a potential
continuance
but I appreciate the effort that the
neighbors and the citizens have made to
work with a developer and the
efforts of the developer as well
I
want to also just address some public
accusations that have been made about
campaign contributions to my election
campaign this year
there's no dollar amount there's no Fame
there's no project that would cause me
to compromise my integrity
um I serve this community in the only
way that I know how and that's by
learning and studying and listening and
weighing the merits of each project and
this development is no different
um
I'm by far the largest contributor to my
own campaign and
I just hope you understand that I'm an
honest person my Integrity is intact
and my vote in the future in the past in
the present
is just not related to my campaign
contributions I really love this town
and
want to serve this community
council member September yeah thank you
mayor I want to thank um I just want to
thank Brian Mosley for working so
diligently for coming up with rational
creative
recommendations and I we're seeing them
in the plan that is
um that is available today for us to
view
the original plan was not acceptable in
my view and I still think that there's
work to be done and I think there's room
for the developer to make additional
concessions or changes to the site plan
or other
um other softening uh especially along
that western border so Brian please
don't give up keep working with them and
I want to thank you for your input and
all of this process
thank you council member councilmember
Hendricks I'll be quick I took 10
minutes or 15 minutes years already but
the uh the gentleman the fighter had
some pictures I wonder if I can get a
copy of those somehow if you could
you can email them PDF whatever and the
lady further back I sorry I don't know
your name you had some pictures you had
some ideas for the developer you said
you can't come to meetings because you
work uh I'll be happy to meet with you
in the evening I'll meet with you on
Saturday I'll meet with you on
Thanksgiving Day I'd like to hear your
ideas
look different
I'm sorry I can't listen to him right
now but I would like to hear from you
Sarah can you please send an email to
all of us with your information in it
please
if I do this without everyone knowing
and they think I'm working with you I
want to have transparency
[Music]
and I don't want to be like
over it has too much chaos and concerns
I understand
at this point I've closed the public
hearing so I can't do that we have to
continue with our discussion here
council member Hendricks asked you for
something specific council member tilkey
asked you to send your comments to us
that would be very very helpful
by law the seven of us can't meet
together except in this format so that's
why you get one or two council members
to come out and meet so
um
okay thank you I will go back and check
that I get hundreds of emails so thank
you I appreciate that
um
bring it back to the diocese this
evening we appreciate all of the
comments I I've been the one that's been
saying to the developer all along that I
think it's too much light industrial I
think it's too much land industrial I
think it's too much land industrial I've
said it over and over again I'm not
comfortable with the project I know
that's why that they decided to and I
heard from council member Hendricks that
he was the one that asked them to bring
it back he does know some of these
people personally but I want to comment
on a couple of things we do not give
developers special treatment we are not
going into business with this gentleman
this is not a public-private partnership
this is a gentleman potentially
purchasing land in this town our role in
that is to decide whether or not he can
use it to the way he's asking to use it
requesting to use it we are not going
into business with this man I try to
factor in all of the facts I don't make
a decision until I hear from everybody
the developer the public the rest of the
council members
when I'm hearing a case and making a
decision on a case
this case is a tough one
I was asked if some things keep me up at
night this is one of the cases that
keeps me up at night
I think about it I was up half the night
last night thinking about it because I
knew all of you would be here this
evening and then I learned at about four
o'clock this afternoon that it was
potentially going to be continued and
that concerned me immensely because then
you're not supposed to know that so I
had
oh I didn't say that this evening I said
that I didn't have anything formal on
the diocese to address that's the last
question I'm going to take from the
audience
I heard this afternoon that it was
potentially going to ask for for a
continuance I was told that the
neighbors were going to be let oh made
aware of that we didn't have anything
until I got here at the desk when I
asked Our Town attorney if we had
anything and he shared the email that
had been sent while we were in exact
session so we didn't know anything about
it before then it was only something I
had heard possible would happen rumors
do spread in a town this big and I did
hear it that it was possible I was
immensely concerned that it would be
continued to December because I had had
a conversation with Mr Mosley about
continuing to December and what that
would do if the residents chose to pull
a referendum that has concerned me a lot
by law we cannot change the numbers on
those once this election is certified or
canvassed later this month
the numbers will be whatever they are I
don't even know what those are yet
because all the ballots haven't been
counted so I won't know what those
numbers are for probably days at this
point
and I did not want to come to continue
this tonight because of that but we have
a recommended
no I don't
I do not have the power when the
applicant has requested a continuance
tonight
if we deny the continuance it doesn't
mean the case gets heard this evening
that's the difference if we deny the
continuance the case still isn't going
to get hurt or voted on this evening
because they asked for continuance that
will be what we're voting on this
evening
there was one other thing that I wanted
to mention
let's vote okay I will bring it back to
the diocese for a motion if someone
would like to do that do we need to
reset our about our iPads or are we good
because it's been quite a while
sorry we have one more meeting in this
room after tonight and then we'll be
with our brand new software in the new
old space
I thought we had a motion already
no we don't have a motion yet I just
said let's bring it back to the dice but
we need to have these reset or we can do
a motion while they're resetting them
but we won't be able to vote until
they're reset make sure mine clicked on
so
does somebody want to make a motion
uh we're pretty sure Kathy made a motion
oh did you make it yeah wasn't seconded
yet oh I'm sorry I didn't I didn't hear
you Kathy I'm sorry Council membership
okay
so I'll restate the motion to continue
this to December 13th to allow time to
meet with the neighbors
do I have a second
councilmember Anderson was that you we
have a motion by council member tilkey
seconded by council member Anderson
please vote
motion passes 7-0
thank you everyone
I'll give you a couple minutes if you'd
like to
exit the auditorium
we're gonna recess for five minutes
welcome back
thank you
30 second warning if everybody could
please take your seats 30-second warning
I have Wi-Fi
[Laughter]
[Music]
right
yeah thank you very much
[Music]
[Laughter]
cookies
thank you everyone for allowing us to
take just a couple minute break
it gets
it gets difficult to sit here for that
long without being able to take a quick
break we'll move back into our public
hearing portion of our agenda we have
two liquor licenses
um would anybody like to open the public
hearing on the two liquor licenses I
don't have any comment cards to speak on
those two I'll close the public hearing
Woods was that an opposed to item 13. we
have one opposed online comment for item
13. otherwise I don't have any comments
to speak on 13 and 14 I'm close to
public hearing bring it back to the
council if someone would like to make
emotion please motion to approve item
13. 13 and 14 both 13 and 14.
13 and 14th liquor licenses thank you a
second second vice mayor of yenta
seconded by council member telkey please
vote
motion passes oh motion hasn't finalized
yet sorry I jumped the gun
councilmember Anderson
uh-oh councilmember Anderson needs a
reset please
can I have you give a verbal vote for
this one council member Anderson that's
the
foreign
can you show the screen then Judy
motion pass is 7-0
next on our agenda we have item 15 A and
B I'll open the public hearing for
General plan GP 22-09 and Z
22-07 still water at rivulon is Steph
Ashley McDonald staff is here to make a
short presentation Ashley I believe
thank you mayor yes I can give a brief
presentation as soon as my PowerPoint
gets loaded thank you
foreign
so this is for gp2209 and z2207 it's the
Stillwater revulon project
rivulon is located between Gilbert Road
and Lindsay Road north of the 202 and
south of Pecos Road it encompasses this
large area the site we're talking about
tonight is a 10-acre site located within
the center of that if you will as
indicated by the red area on the map
it's just north of rivulon Boulevard
which is under construction should be
open soon
if you look at the zoning map zooming in
a little bit closer this area is largely
zoned Business Park you see a couple of
areas on the map that have that hash
pattern the the white dots that is area
that has not yet been annexed by the
town and is a county Island the rest of
the property is zoned Business Park in
the immediate vicinity
revulon also includes some Regional
commercial along Gilbert Road the
subject site is currently zoned Business
Park as well but the applicant again is
seeking to amend both the general plan
and rezone the site as part of this
application
as I mentioned this is part of a larger
master plan development revulon is about
280 Acres I thought this this map was a
good one to kind of illustrate what is
planned and what is coming through so
immediately west of the subject site
there is the reveal on Commons Office
Buildings it's comprised of four
two-story Office Buildings staff is
currently reviewing a fifth office
building just north of the subject site
that will be located between the
proposed multi-family and Pecos Road and
then we have the multi-family project
proposed at the center of this map
as I mentioned the site is 10.3 Acres as
part of that larger 280 acre rivulon
master plan development the applicant is
specifically seeking a general plan
amendment to go from General office to
residential 25 to 50 dwelling units per
acre accompanying that application is a
rezoning and Pad Amendment request to
change the property from business park
with a pad to multi-family high with a
pad this property along with the
remainder that I've showed you on some
previous slides does have a planned area
development overlay on it which provides
some deviations to development standards
the applicant is looking to amend that
pad by incorporating this site as a
multi-family piece but largely the
conditions that exist in the the rivilan
pad would remain I'll go over a couple
of modifications
um on some of the next slides first I
want to talk about the general plan
Amendment
um the this property is located within a
growth area our general plan identifies
growth areas that are ideally suited for
mixed use development this one
specifically is within the Gilbert and
202 growth area so it does focus on
employment uses but does seek to have a
mixed-use component and so with that the
applicant is proposing the multi-family
with the pad Amendment they are seeking
a couple of modifications to the
development standards one of those being
the maximum height allowed in the zoning
District so if approved they would
request that they have an increase in
height from 55 feet to 65 feet to allow
for a five-story multi-family building
in addition the applicant is Seeking a
modification to the common open space
requirement the multi-family High
District requires 40 open space and the
applicant is proposing 30 percent it is
important to note that if you look at
the rivulon development as a whole they
do meet their open space requirement the
revulon commons development that I noted
just to the west of this has an excess
of of about a hundred and twenty
thousand square feet of open space
beyond what they're required to provide
whereas the deficit here is only about
36
000 square feet so if you look at the
development as a whole they are
certainly providing
um in excess of the amount of common
open space that they're required
as it relates to height the site is
located within a vertical development
overlay District the vertical
development overlay District does allow
for increased height for uses within the
regional commercial general office or
Business Park zoning districts so
although the applicant here is proposing
multi-family high and they wouldn't be
allowed those additional Heights by
right I point that out because given the
context of the area we would expect to
see taller buildings within this within
this Development Area
and by way of example there are existing
buildings that exceed a 65-foot height
in the vicinity the Bank of America
finance of America building was approved
at 72 feet the Isagenix building that we
that we see as we drive down the 202 is
67 feet and then we've also approved in
the past couple of years but it hasn't
been constructed yet the reveal on Lake
Office Buildings at 71 feet so I just
share that so you understand kind of the
context of the area as it relates to
that the height request
I mentioned that there um there is an
existing PID that contains some
deviations one of those is parking
standards the applicant is looking to
apply those same parking standard
deviations to this multi-family property
and that would allow for more parking
spaces between landscape islands that
exists in revealon today but the
ordinance specifies that that applies to
office districts and so they're looking
to add into the condition that those
standards also apply to multi-family
along with the pad the applicant is
seeking approval of a development plan
so any future development that occurs on
this parcel if approved would have to
comply substantially with the
development plan shown on the screen
this includes access points off of LA
arbolida to the east in rivilan
Boulevard to the South there's one
primary building for the multi-family
located at the center of the site and
then just north of that building is a
garage building to satisfy the parking
requirements for enclosed spaces
uh as far as public input goes the
neighborhood meeting was held in March
of 2022 there were no attendees at that
neighborhood meeting Beyond staff and
the applicant team since that time staff
has received 37 comments from the public
in opposition
citing primarily the number of existing
Apartments concerns about traffic
Building height density concerns about
infrastructure and Public Safety we have
received as part of your packet two
letters of support as well as a letter
of support from the Chamber of Commerce
on this project
I'm at the Planning Commission meeting
that was held just a couple of weeks ago
on November 2nd there were 10 speakers
in opposition three members of the
public filled out comment cards in
opposition but did not wish to speak at
that meeting they voiced some of the
same concerns that I um cited uh that
we've received in those letters with
that the Planning Commission did
recommend approval of both items with a
vote of five to one
happy to answer any questions the
council might have on this item tonight
council members any questions for Ashley
I actually have one about the overlay
the um use of the overlay is not meant
for just Commercial Business Park
um it's it can be used for multi-family
also it so the overlay specifies that
use is in the regional commercial
general office in Business Park zoning
can go up to 90 feet by right so without
an additional approval it makes no
mention of multi-family and so it would
require a pad and action by Council to
allow a greater height
thank you
is the any other comments questions
councilmember Anderson do you have any
comments or questions for Ashley
[Music]
District
[Music]
mayor and council member Anderson um yes
this would be an example of a potential
mixed-use development
thank you thank you councilmember
Anderson thank you Ashley as the
applicant here would they like to
make a presentation I see Mr Baugh
headed to the podium
members of the commission our Council
adambaugh on behalf of Nationwide um you
know when Nationwide began acquiring the
parcels in this area about 2006 and
continued acquiring through 2018 the
idea was to assemble an opportunity for
an employment Park and employment Park
is probably one of the Premier gyms
within the town of Gilbert as the town
has as Nationwide has gone forward
they've been intentional about building
out what will hopefully be one of the
largest employment parks in the town but
it occurs at a pace that's prudent
that's wise that's reflective of the
market conditions and also for the users
that want to come there at the time when
they put the Zone on the pla on the
property they put BP because that was
the big picture of what they want to do
but knowing that different components
would come online at different times
when needed because of their experience
developing Gainey Ranch and Cabazon or
Scottsdale and the arena district in um
in Cleveland they know that good
employment Parks still have a balance of
uses but until that time came when they
can identify what those uses would be
and when that zone has been in place now
where I had the chance to actually move
forward and so Nationwide as you've seen
has been a model and a good Community
partner but now it's the time to bring
forward a residential component as part
of this project and soon after that
you'll likely see other components too
particularly along the frontage of Pecos
Road and Lindsay Road they'll have
probably more of a mixed-use nature to
them as well what's been important for
Revlon though is that as they've
attracted great tenants like Deloitte
and Isagenix and Morgan Stanley key to
its success though in the long-term
vision of that site is having the
ability of proximate housing for
employees or other folks living nearby
and as a result good Dynamics makes
these neighborhoods need these
well-balanced uses that are within it
The Proposal that's before you today is
about 10 acres or so 352 units and 60
feet tall it's still less height than
what would otherwise be allowed in the
vertical height overlay District had it
been an office building but what's
important to them is the ability to to
be located along that pedestrian spine
that cuts across the commons buildings
they see this as an important asset that
serves this product and the balance the
residents can work together and within
them what's unique about this one was
the abundance of private open space with
each unit we think that is an important
amenity for what we're trying to offer
and propose as you look at what ribalon
is though it's a premium quality product
it's a chance to actually have employees
or living close to where people may work
and the difference is as opposed to like
another single family or multi-family
development you would likely place that
at the corner maybe at Pecos Road or
Lindsay Road where you have drive-by
traffic
that's not the case here we believe that
the value of this land is still in the
employment Park and the components that
serve it and those components along the
street Frontage are important it's
necessary that they have the type of
visibility for long-term success of
those employment retail uses but if you
are trying to create a balanced uh
product like this to serve the overall
Community within Revlon it's important
that it be located in the center along
that spine area and so you can kind of
see
the intent here is to essentially
provide the workforce housing but also
folks who want to live and work in the
immediate area this has become a
preferred area for the town it's become
a prepared area for employers with a
large number of employers they do need
these types of things and we believe
that this opportunity will also help
support the expected retail that will be
planned at the northeast corner of the
site I think for those reasons that's
why you see letters of support from
Deloitte from the Chamber of Commerce
because they recognize that good planned
employment Parks still have supporting
uses to sustain them so with that being
said I think what we appreciated some of
the comments are heard in the Planning
Commission one there was a comment about
height and I think um
it's important to remind folks that you
can have encouraged by the vertical
height overlay up to 90 feet tall
buildings here there was a comment about
traffic but as we went forward and
analyzed that further and worked with
our traffic engineer to evaluate how
much traffic could be created by the
president entailment versus what we're
proposing is much less the important
part about Riverland Boulevard was a
commonly herd and Revlon Boulevard cuts
through the center of the project
heading east and west it's a public
Street and it's in the middle of being
built out right now but once it's
completed it will operate like all the
public streets with curb gutter sidewalk
street lights Etc so it is a safe way
once it will be open and operating the
last thing I heard is maybe this would
somehow overcrowd the schools but as
we've seen with our other similar
developments they create about three
percent of the
uh residents our student age population
which is like 12 to 15 kids and we've
actually received a letter from the
school district confirming that they
have sufficient capacity for our
development so at the end of the day we
believe this meets the intent of what
Revlon Envision all along it's just at
the phase of development where these
additional components will start to come
online we still have preserved the
southern half along the 202 Freeway the
Northern California Pecos the eastern
half along Lindsay because we believe
those are prime spots for employment and
Retail opportunities but we think
situated here in the center is a good
balance to support this and for those
reasons we think integration of it is
necessary and vital to the success of
this park long term
and I'm here as well as the nation my
team if there are any particular
questions for them
or Mr at this time
councilmember Anderson anything at this
time
thank you thanks Mr ball we'll move into
public comment vice mayor
we have three public comments
um this
as well as see
for not wishing to speak and three
wishing to speak so for our three
speakers Trent grossarth
and then we'll have David Rigby
and Sakura flowers
can we do three minutes yeah
hello my name is Trent grosarth and I am
a resident of the north west corner of
Pecos and Lindsay so right across from
this development of revulon so thank you
so much for your time and allow me to be
here
I did have a chance to also speak at the
Planning Commission
and I am in opposition of the rezoning
of this area
and shared with them if if I had
Ashley's pictures that's a great picture
we could show it it would be wonderful
if you think about what's north of the
202 so we know that Gilbert Road we
transitioned over to Chandler and east
of that is Gilbert what's north of that
was a vision that was set many years ago
and has been fulfilled
we have low density
large plots sf10
sf-35 sf-43
that area has been filled with
homes
and people who desired to come to
Gilbert
for the purpose of having this picture
where we see the how Gilbert was and re
and so we can think about that there
so when you think about the general plan
that's there now
of businesses
that's relevant and consistent with kind
of the general plan of Gilbert to have
along the corridor business corridor
what's an outlier is a five-story
apartment complex
a single building amongst an area that
has General businesses
small micro farms and large development
homes meaning large plot size homes
so it it does not seem to make sense
this is incongruent to the general area
now if you move Easter there you move to
the Spectrum area there is a gradual
transition the plot sizes get smaller
and we move into the area of apartment
complexes and businesses
so this makes absolute sense of How It's
laid out the vision that was set a while
ago
but we seem to want to change it and
just because a developer says that the
things change which they do we know they
all do doesn't mean that we have to
prove it
and so my request to you today is to
I guess you have no choice to to pick it
apart and deny the five foot Story part
of it but tonight and send it back to
the Planning Commission if we're looking
for a compromise let's go back to a
compromise now I was brought to the
attention that there was no Community
involvement early on when this was
brought forward and let me tell you why
that was because the placement of this
property that's rezoning
our current laws state that you have to
notify people within 300 feet well I
think you saw the image there's nobody
within 300 feet sorry I know we have one
resident here who's right across the
street from it so we have one maybe two
maybe five people within 300 feet
so
please let us have a chance to revisit
this in a proper manner
hello Council I'm David Rigby a 10-year
resident of Gilbert I live in the Allen
Ranch area which is just North of this
proposed Development I've done my best
to try and understand how it is in a
community like Gilbert that many of us
moved to that we've seen this recent
over development in my opinion of high
density housing of things that are not
congruent with what the average
majority Gilbert resident wants is I
look at this picture this is a picture
of the rendering of this monstrous
five-story apartment building does
anybody think when I look at oh
hopefully that's alive
does anybody look at a picture like that
and think hey that looks like Gilbert
that's what I think of when I think of
Gilbert yet we're just wholesale rushing
into so much of this and it's changing
the fabric of what it feels like to be a
Gilbert resident
when I think of my neighbors who live
right there in that property my good
friend Tomas who is a sheep herder and
has lived in that property for since the
70s with his family raising his
grandkids right there being muscled out
being pressured
by a five-story 352 unit complex that's
going to be right in their front yard
where is their voice as a citizen versus
the Columbus Ohio based Nationwide who
in the planning meeting which I attended
Adam bought that out by saying
Nationwide had a vision well so did the
residents of Gilbert get a vision of a
family environment not high-rise
buildings not a business quarter that is
what's going on there and that's what
it's so important I'm not going to fight
I'm a proponent of property rights too
but in 2020 the citizens of this
community voted for a general plan that
does not include
high density residential housing and not
only high density they're asking for
exceptions on top of that to go 10 feet
higher to exclude parking spots to
reduce open space yes they say that
there's other areas that haven't been
accounted for in that open space but
this is something if they can
willy-nilly change this plan and say
that was just a placeholder we just put
that there because we didn't know what
we were going to do if this General plan
that we voted on as Citizens doesn't
mean anything then then what does and
what's our guarantee that they're not
going to make some other proposal and
want to build another high density
proposed housing I work in the ER our
ERS are overwhelmed to the point where
they're dangerous people are dying in
the lobbies to say that this and with
the Morris's statement that this is
going to have no impact on the community
to say it's not going to impact schools
which the school representative state
I have a hard time
got into consideration they have zero
participants send them back ask them ask
them to invite the community because in
Gilbert We Believe
Sakura flowers
hello my name is Sakura flowers
my family purchased the property
that
I actually rode my horse on
I got to drive a car in the back that's
how I learned how to drive a car
and then I was fortunate enough that the
pastor
was gifted to my husband and I
there is a foregone conclusion when I
see all of these Aerials that Nationwide
owns all that property they do not
they make the statement that that is in
the center
of their development
but it is on the edge it's an interior
Edge but it is in the center
of what's what they want
it's mentioned that there's usually a
transition which is why I wasn't
concerned my mom retired from the
planning and zoning department I knew
what was going to be built
but I also knew what the zonings and the
general plan was going to be I was not
concerned about having a business park
as a neighbor there was transition there
were buffers there was Landscaping
and yes they graciously built a road on
their own property
but they didn't even put a fence on that
property where that road is so that road
that's going to be dedicated to Gilbert
actually is almost on the property line
of my neighbor Mr Gandara there's
nothing that if a car goes off that is
going to keep that from careening into
his property
I feel that there needs to be more
involvement with the communities I
thought as I touched the planned area of
development that I would be given a
written notice I found out because I'm
300 feet away I was not
signage was on streets that were under
construction that even if you tried to
walk on you were ushered away for safety
reasons
so please
the general plan was voted in it was
your guidance it was as a total to what
Gilbert is supposed to be instead of
looking at each parcel that comes up
available as piecemeal to try to decide
what the vision of the company of our
town is so please reject this it needs
to go back it needs to have more Vision
it needs to keep that employment base
and it also needs to fit in with the
development there are six buildings that
we're supposed to be built there you can
see them they run in a parallel line if
you looked at revulon's website before
those were there now there's only five
and now there's an apartment complex
that is stuck in there there are other
areas in that business park where it
could be further away closer to that
employment that they say that apartment
building is going to actually support
thank you
foreign
we also have comment cards that were
received online 27 of them
um as well as two emails and all post
thank you vice mayor I'm following the
public testimony we asked the applicant
to come back to the podium for a
response and if you can answer or any of
the questions that were asked or any of
the comments that were made if you have
comments back thank you
you know the the challenge with growth
is that you're always a budding against
something and as a town has grown up
from what used to be a rural area to a
town and that operates much bigger than
a typical town you you naturally have
the necessity of uses uses that went
from just a small one acre lots to
subdivisions to employment parks to
commercial shopping centers to auto
dealerships nearby to even what we're
proposing here today I think what's
important here is that this project the
300 acres of land between
Gilbert to Lindsay pecosa 202 Freeway
Nationwide owns 280 of those 300 ish
Acres
that area and this plan was always
intended for far greater intensity than
what you've seen yet today
the whole point of the vertical client
overlay was to increase
that type of height that's in the area
what we're proposing is not is is
compatible with what you would expect to
see with the heights that are long
intended from this area and frankly will
come but as you think through what um
we've done is not put us on the
periphery but rather in the interior of
this development precisely because it's
internalized to the development to serve
the development unlike anybody else who
would have put on the edge and attract a
different type of consumer this is
intentional fat reason our signs were
posted on Pecos Road Lindsay Road and
Revlon and another Road next to our our
project so we have complied with every
regard to the town's notice requirements
at the end of the day this is an
important part to what Riverland does
that's why they've been successful in
Gainey Ranch in Cabazon and in the other
Arena District because they have these
balance of uses and there will still be
changes of uses I don't know when the
time will necessitate it but we expect
that there will be a variety of addition
additional uses that will be necessary
to serve this project going forward if
you desire Jim Ross is here with
information maybe even share more about
their Vision but it is an important
component of what their plan is
thank you Mr ball any comments or
questions for Mr Baugh
seeing none thank you Adam Ashley do you
have any follow-up questions for our
staff response
thank you Ashley I will go ahead and
close the public hearing and bring it
back to the diocese for discussion
motion deliberation action
foreign
actually do you have a question for the
applicant
can we
I'll reopen the public hearing and bring
the applicant back to the podium thank
you for your flexibility your continued
flexibility tonight
um Mr Bob the I was at the Planning
Commission hearing for this case and I
believe one of the residents talked
about a well that was that they felt was
at risk
exposure to the roadway with all the
additional traffic are you aware of this
and and
were you able to I know you guys were
going to talk to the to the neighbor I
believe that was discussed at the
Planning Commission hearing but can you
speak to that a little bit was anything
done to help resolve that issue so what
we've learned is it's a private well on
private property and I think the concern
we heard at Planning Commission was that
the well was next to the roadway and
their fear that a car would
maybe leave the roadway or crash the
roadway into the well
we've since lived in that net well as 35
feet away from the roadway
we felt like that was a sufficient
distance if the concern was safety we
remain open and willing to help if there
is a desire for some additional
protective barrier Bollard for that but
it is a significant distance from the
roadway
thank you Mr ba I mean 35 feet goes goes
by really fast at 45 miles an hour and
so I'm just wondering if uh and I know
the cost of ballards it can't be too
cost prohibitive I was wondering if if
you would agree to to a stipulation to
include those
I think we're agreeable working together
it's on private property so I I can't do
something on someone else's land unless
they buy that authorization
ma'am please you didn't request to speak
during the public hearing
please sit down
vice mayor can read your comment into
the record thank you Mr Baugh close
public hearing bring it back to the
diocese you want me to read in the
public comments
public hearing so you can read the
public comments thank you there's just a
couple Elizabeth
Gandara I live right in front of this we
don't need an apartment hovering over my
house we have too many apartments in
Gilbert our community is well
our communities well is unprotected they
took down our main fence to our driveway
no Apartments I have pictures if needed
and then Michael DeSantis didn't have
any other comments on his card and then
Marie desantes new apartments this is a
low density Zone
and Tony DeSantis no Apartments
thank you vice mayor we will close the
public hearing bring it back to the
diocese for discussion deliberation
motion action
councilmember tilkey
thanks I'll just make some comments
um
I I first want to recognize that rivilan
is an important employee employment
Corridor and project for the town of
Gilbert and they they do offer a lot of
high-wage jobs corporate headquarters
and other opportunities
um
when I served as president of the and
CEO of the Gilbert Chamber of Commerce
we had a lot of meetings with businesses
over the years and particularly
in regards to this case
with the employers there in that
riviland development
they had two top priorities that were
concerns of theirs that they have
expressed to us
from the beginning so as soon as they
moved in one was a concern for having
house
Housing close by that their employers
their employees could rent especially
the younger employees that they recruit
from across the nation and elsewhere the
other one was that they wanted
commercial amenities within walking
distance from their business so that
they could attract and retain employees
and they thought that that was really
important
um
as I as I look at this particular
project
I I guess first I'm going to go off this
particular comment to the notification
of neighbors and
um
I think that as we
move forward with our communication
subcommittee and reach out to our
residents and receive feedback about how
we can be better at communicating I
think that this is one of those topics
of how we can ensure that we are
notifying neighbors further out so that
they are able to be part of the process
early on and not feel that maybe they
weren't notified in time or something so
I just I bring that up as just a comment
that I think it is an area that we need
to look at as a community
um
this is a a big ask I think of rivet on
but I think it's an important ask to
address the employer's needs that are
currently there and that we're going to
be recruiting in the future
um though saying that I want to say that
one expectation I do have is
if this moves forward and we are able to
provide that housing there is a
commercial component that is very
important that meets those employers
needs and I would like to see that move
forward quicker than later
because I don't want to be stuck later
and that commercial doesn't happen and
so that's an important piece to me I
don't need to put it as part of the
motion but I just I'm just sharing that
so
I understand the concerns I know that
you do a very high quality
project that you've tried to be very
considerate to moving that as far away
from Neighbors as you could and have the
least amount of impact on that
portion of it so those are my comments
for now and I'll I'll wait for others
thanks thank you council member tilkey
I'm council member Anderson do you have
anything that you'd like to add
um
over the next 10 years is our community
continues to build up reach build out
this is going to be coming up more often
than not where we have available
[Music]
like this
got used to making land gotten used to
other uses
that are being proposed to infield in
the town and so we'll see more of these
and I think we each one of them have its
own merits and that's certainly part of
what we have to measure are the merits
of the case and how it serves the entire
community
thank you councilmember Anderson great
reminder we will be facing a lot of this
as we are getting closer to build out
any other comments council member
September sure mayor I mean I I might
feel differently about this proposal if
it was on the edge of of the rivolan
area but because it is in the interior
um I feel like that's a good placement
for it I think it's um it's it's
consistent with the even even the even
the 10 foot height increase is uh
consistent with the with the
contemplated
environment of of rivolan which can go
up to 90 feet in a general office
environment so I don't think that's out
of out of place
um
and I think multifamily is important I
think we all saw the emails there were
several from local businesses that were
not even on property that were outside
of rivulan that uh that supported this
because they recognized that that
rooftop is going to support the retail
in the area and having some affordable
homes for the younger professionals that
are going to be here moving in in that
Ruby line area I think is important so
just wanted to share those thoughts
thank you thank you councilmember
anybody else
as Ben said revulon is a major
development in our in our community
there at Gilbert in the 202 and this has
been a conversation for a very long time
with them and the businesses long before
I was even on the Town Council I was
hearing that the conversation was
happening because the businesses needed
the residential close by for their
employees to live in and for those
businesses to succeed and we hear more
and more all the time that people want
to have the the opportunity to live
closer to work so that they can really
live work and play Within the same
vicinity and Mr Baugh mentioned that
there probably will be some changes in
the future I keep asking Ruby land and
come up with a Conference Center or
something at Ruby line because I think
it would be a great location for
something like that we need a place that
we can I'm gonna since I have the mic in
there here I'm gonna throw it out there
again
um I think a conference center is
something that we really need in Gilbert
and I think that would be a great
location for it um we don't have space
to do a large conference and I think the
bet the businesses would benefit from
that
um again
um council member September mentioned
that this project is internal to the
space it is not on it's not right up
against Pecos or up against Lindsay and
I think that makes that made a major
that was a deciding factor for me as I
was looking at this project also because
it isn't as as the placement is very
important and being in the um vertical
overlay it was this property was in mind
when the vertical overlay was developed
many years ago right along the 202 and
so it fits that also do I have I guess
those are my comments do I have anyone
that would like to
comment further or make a motion
we'll need two separate motions GP and a
zoning please
thank you
is that 15 and 15 a maybe 15 a and 15 B
so we'll need a motion for the for the
general plan Amendment and then a
separate one for the zoning okay can we
do them together or do I have to do one
vote and then the other I would say
separate votes please yes okay mayor I
moved to approve uh 15a
do I have a second second I have a
motion by council member September 2nd
and by council member caprese please
vote
vote passes six to one
15b
mayor I moved to uh blue 15b
I have a motion from council member
September
second second from council member
kroprowski can we have our screens
cleared please
please vote
motion passes thank you councilmember
Anderson motion passes six one thank you
thank you to the applicant and
the staff for that presentation now we
are moving on to item 16 which is
gp22-06 and
z22-06 Lindsay 202 industrial park if I
would please have the staff open the
public hearing staff please come to the
podium for your presentation
foreign
Peterson members of the council good
evening
so my project I'll try to be brief is um
Lindsay 202 industrial Business Park
um and here is an aerial map of the site
the site is located
um close to the south east corner of
Lindsay and the 202 just south kind of
San Haro Park wraps or is a just
adjacent to it to the North the project
site is located in the Gilbert 202
growth area
which focuses on Office business park
and Industrial uses that that need quick
access to the freeway
um
so the project that I'm going to show
you is definitely complies with that so
so as far as the process is concerned
that we have gone through throughout
this whole Major General plan Amendment
for this case we did a 60-day agency
review that went from July 19th to
September 18th did a Planning Commission
study session September 7th and then we
had two public hearings with the
Planning Commission October 5th and then
October 20th and now of course we're
here before you tonight so you can see
that this process has this project
project has been in process since
um
actually even before July we received
the application in May but that was just
the agency review so this project has
been in process for quite some time
so as far as the request is concerned
it's a pro it's a major general plan
Amendment
um the total site is about 94 gross
Acres so uh 90 of those of that acreage
is going from just proposed to go from
General office to Industrial
and then about 3.9 acres is proposed to
go from General office to General
commercial
and I'll show you that in those
locations in a minute and then the
proposed rezone is from Business Park to
light industrial on the on 90 acres and
then from Business Park to General
commercial on 3.9 Acres
so here's the general plan exhibit that
shows the whole entire site and you can
see the large piece going from General
office to Industrial and then the little
small piece up in the north west Corner
going to propose to go to General
commercial and then the zoning exhibit
looks just like it so basically the
exact same thing going to Business Park
to indust light Industrial in the
commercial up in the north west corner
so as far as the proposed this is a
conceptual land use plan it's not going
to be approved with this with it
wouldn't be approved with this rezone
case this is just for informational
purposes so the site is about 87.9 net
Acres
um in size and they are proposing about
1.4 million square feet of employment
Industrial
with about 54 000 square feet of office
inside those buildings so you can see
that there's six a total of six
industrial buildings and they actually
range in size anywhere from 142 000
square feet to about 400 000 square feet
um
for the largest building and you'll
notice that that the retail piece up in
the northwest corner is about 9 800
square feet and it'll be two buildings
this is actually an older uh conceptual
design we have a newer one that's a
little bit more updated than this but
it's basically the same and then you'll
have about 1800 parking spaces and about
20 percent Landscaping overall which is
actually a lot of landscaping for an
industrial park of this size so you'll
have site accesses off of there's um one
off of Lindsay and then you have two
three site access points excuse me off
of um
off of Germain Road
um so there's quite a bit of access and
truck traffic will be circulating
through the site and it is actually
designed truck traffic to go out to
Lindsay Road where there is a signal
um and not on to Germain Road and then
they'll actually head out to the freeway
and and use our brand new beautiful
interchange there at Lindsay Road to get
access to the 202 Freeway so that's what
the site is designed to how it's
supposed to design to handle truck
traffic
so as far as public participation is
concerned the applicant held two virtual
neighborhood meetings the first meeting
was attended by about 20 people the
second by about 14
and at that first meeting I just wanted
to to make note that
um
and you can see the citizen input on the
screen that happened at that first
meeting there was a lot of concern at
that first meeting a lot of uncertainty
and from the residents and you can see
some of their concerns about traffic and
and large truck traffic and noise and
and permitted industrial use is not
compatible with the residential
neighborhood and building size and
impact on their neighborhoods but the
applicant was able to meet with a lot of
these citizens that were concerned and
at the April 10th meeting when 14
Property Owners attended their concerns
were drastically
decreased and and it's my understanding
that those concerns a large majority of
those concerns were addressed by the
applicant but they wanted to attend to
hear additional information that the
applicant had to share with them and how
they were going to address their
concerns so all in all the Apple the
concerns of the neighbors were addressed
by the applicant and I'm I'm not aware
of any
since that last neighborhood meeting I'm
not aware of any opposition to this
project
so as a result of of the presentation
tonight and what I've presented to you
we staff recommends that you approve the
the major general plan Amendment case
and the rezone
thank you and I'm open for questions if
you have any thank you any questions at
this time
um just one you mentioned that much of
the concerns were addressed is there
maybe this is a question for the
applicant but how how are they addressed
was it just talking through what the
impacts were or were there changes uh
mayor mayor Peterson
um vice mayor yentez I yes I believe
that would probably be a much better
question to ask the applicant thank you
thank you then we'll go ahead and ask
the applicant to come down for their
presidency thank you
whoops when I press
the wrong button apparently evidently
they'll get it back for you
Kelsey Works magic over here I messed
something up my apologies no worries
good evening mayor council Benjamin Tate
with with you Morris 2525 East Arizona
Biltmore circle on behalf of creation
Equity uh we'll get the PowerPoint back
up in a second here
um but I'll start by saying and really
because particularly because this was a
question the vice mayor
um
we actually had three neighborhood
meetings so the first one was a virtual
neighborhood meeting and that was
actually for a smaller parcel originally
we were just focused on the 40 acres at
the Hard corner of Lindsay and German
and eventually we expanded that to the
larger site which precipitated the
second virtual neighborhood meeting
um through that second meeting in
particular we were fortunate to cross
paths and meet with both Tara who's here
and her compatriot Krista who ended up
being our conduit to the neighborhood
throughout this process and working with
them and sitting down with them uh
repeatedly to talk about their concerns
to talk about the things there were
of most importance to them as far as the
compatible compatibility between our
project and the neighborhood
and so I'll Breeze through these first
few slides because Keith did a really
great job of outlining what the
development is so our current zoning is
Business Park it's about 94 Acres the
proposed zoning is to change that to
light industrial which is really an
incremental change from Business Park
and then a small amount of General
commercial in the corner there which is
an exciting little uh nugget of this
development that I'll get to in a second
now it's not moving
it's been a long night there we go uh so
the current General plan is general
office it's 94 Acres uh we're proposing
to change that to about 90 Acres of
industrial and four acres give or take
of General commercials so the big
question is what changed and what
changed as Keith touched on is the fact
that there is now an interchange there's
a full diamond interchange off of the
loop 202 to here
which is a game changer as far as this
property is concerned and what that
means in terms of economic development
for the town of Gilbert
so this is a quick project summary it's
six buildings in total for the
employment campus 32 to 40 foot clear
Heights with buildings between a hundred
thousand and 500 000 square feet but the
important piece of this is that those
buildings can be demised into spaces as
small as 10 000 square feet so really
we're focused on not only large users
and large sort of light Manufacturing
tech tech focused users but also
research and development uh smaller
businesses for the town of Gilbert they
can really sort of Drive economic
development at all levels and then the
three and a half acre roughly retail pad
it's we've actually increased it
originally it was a little less than
nine thousand square feet now it's about
sixteen thousand five hundred so the
retail component did get a little bit
bigger
and with prominent freeway and
visibility access we are doing a new
signal on Lindsay at the northwest
corner of the development and that's
where the retail component will be and
as far as design is concerned if you're
familiar with LGE design build uh really
some of the most high quality design uh
and usage of uh creative materials in
town I mean you can look at the collab
in in downtown Gilbert in the Heritage
district is a great example of that
so here is the slightly newer site plan
so the larger retail component about 16
000 square feet the remainder of the
buildings remain more or less the same
from the site plan that we showed with
the one big change which I'll get to in
a minute as far as the way we were
responsive to the community that
roundabout that you see sort of in the
the bottom third in the middle of the
development that was a really critical
piece of this as far as
orchestrating our internal vehicular
circulation so that all of that truck
traffic enters through the signal
Lindsay and exits through the signal at
Lindsay because one of the biggest
concerns in the neighborhood in fact I
would say one of the the chief concern
uh was truck traffic on Germain Road and
what this circulation pattern allows us
to do in conjunction with signage is is
to ensure that almost all of that truck
traffic filters to and from the new
signal Lindsay
uh these are just some renderings of
what that may look like overall so this
would be on if you were on Concord
looking North through the property
looking across Germain
this is just what one of the corner
buildings may look like
and then this is a conceptual rendering
of what some of that retail and
commercial space may look like if again
if you're familiar with the work the LGE
does the types of users that they work
with people like upward projects Postino
folks like that not to make any promises
but they work with extremely high
quality users and tenants for their
properties
uh here's our Outreach timeline so that
original letter actually went out in
January of this year we had that first
neighborhood meeting on January 20th the
follow-up virtual neighborhood meeting
for when we did pivot to the larger site
was in April
and then ultimately the in-person
meeting that we had which would have
been that third neighborhood meeting in
June at Campo Verde High School which is
right next door to the project and then
from July to August just a whole lot of
one-on-one and small group meetings to
to Really drill down on what the
concerns are and really making sure that
we were addressing all of them which I
think as as Keith noted is evidence of
of the lack of that opposition here
tonight
project benefits I think the benefits of
the project are fairly evident but we
did sorry we creation Equity uh did
commission an economic study as part of
this project and you can see those
numbers right here on the screen so in
terms of construction about 240 million
dollars in wages half a billion dollars
in total economic output and about 28
million dollars in tax service and
that's just for construction
once you get into completion
stabilization we're talking about 3 300
jobs 165 million dollars in annual wages
and about three quarters of a billion
dollars of annual economic output and
about 14 million dollars in annual tax
revenue
uh so this took me a really long time to
get to it I apologize vice mayor uh but
this is really the uh drills down on
what those concerns were so traffic
again was a big one so the circulation
pattern was designed uh to address
exactly that the roundabout the signage
the placement of the signal all intended
to keep that truck traffic flowing to
and from Lindsay Road
um the proposed development will
actually generate about 55 fewer average
daily trips compared to General office
and Business Park just in terms of
vehicle turnover
that's about 65 percent fewer average
daily trips at the AM and PM peak hours
noise again
the biggest concern there was was just
uh truck traffic and operation if you'll
notice from our site plan and I'll go
back to that right here
all of our truck courts are oriented
away from the neighborhood so and not
only are they oriented away from the
neighborhood but all of them are
actually screened towards the
neighborhood and so you have physical
barriers at at every point to ensure
that none of that noise is filtering
back towards the community so that all
of those are screened and actually as a
result of this being fully built out we
expect that the the noise screening and
mitigation that's going to create from
freeway traffic noise on Loop 202 is
actually going to be a benefit overall
our nearest buildings as far as the
noise is concerned to set back 130 feet
from the property line that's the front
of the building so which means the near
nearest truck court is about twice that
all of our on-site tenant activity will
be enclosed in the buildings no outdoor
Machinery no manufacturing Outdoors Etc
uh oh lost it again
uh
and then finally potential land uses and
this was another one that was very
important to the community because there
are certain uses that are permitted in
the zoning District that we're
requesting that are considered somewhat
undesirable and so again we sat down
with Tara and Krista talk through a list
of uses that we both found mutually
undesirable and we're going to be
privately restricting those through our
ccnrs
I'm done droning on now uh so I'd be
happy and delighted to answer any
questions you may have thank you
Benjamin
Benjamin speak now or forever hold your
peace just kidding
councilmember Anderson do you have any
questions
do we lose him
we might have lost councilmember
Anderson
um thank you thank you
we'll go ahead and go to the public
comment now vice mayor
yes we have one speaker Tara gramsa
hello my name is Tara I'm here to talk
about the project the Lindsay in 202. my
backyard literally faces Jermaine Road
and so I can't think of anybody more
impacted than the people right on
Flamingo Way my co-partner in crime
Krista has covid so she's not able to
make it today so I'm going to kind of
speak about our experience and what we
went through about eight months ago a
small group of our neighbors were
notified about this project when it was
still in its very early and undetailed
phase the lack of information led to
many misconceptions although it did have
major issues after much encouragement by
Jim torgenson myself and other neighbors
approached the attorney and ultimately
the developer who then invited us to
their actual office
the entire atmosphere and mood changed
as we all came to the table with the
idea of cohesion
I truly believe that we cannot come to
the table without complaints without
having Solutions
for eight months we connected with LGE
and they took every single idea every
recommendation
and they made it better
for eight months myself and I worked
hundreds of hours
with no money no compensation in order
to make this project better for our
neighbors and our for community
I'm here tonight with the sole purpose
of showing you that these projects don't
need to be contentious they do not need
we can all come to a agreement we can
all work together I truly believe that
if the council really has the goal of
being our mediators and representing our
constituents
you you can have success stories I
employ this Council to use this story as
for a culture change I feel like after
watching all of this tonight and seeing
all this happen there's a few pieces of
advice I have and I hope that you guys
can take this I'm not sure I'm seeing
this just in the history
act early
start early we've been doing this for
eight months and you're now just
starting to fight
so we started a long time ago get your
community involved have people come and
be involved I feel like I'm not seeing a
lot of that either
be honest so I'm encouraging the
developers be honest with us tell us the
truth these guys were
be flexible and willing to change a lot
because they changed a lot for us
Don't Force things down their throat
they didn't do that to us we worked
together
know your audience and your community
find out about what makes us what's
important to us
and don't wait until it's too late I
think you guys waited too late
because you're already chasing distrust
I have a lot of recommendations and
other things but I don't have enough
time these are our homes these are our
backyards these are not the developers
yards and not their homes
I approve this project I'm confident
that lge's commitment and investment to
this project is long term and brings
value to us
thank you
we had one comment card filled out that
did not wish to speak but against voice
lust
um and I'll read this comment because we
did that on the last one this area
should remain zoned uh Business Park not
multi-family more thought should be used
to changing uh General Park
zoning so people know what to expect we
expected to someday be surrounded by
businesses and we're grateful not to
have uh 24 7 neighbors we have lived on
our property since 1980 and thought
Gilbert would stay with its Vision a
business park my understanding of the
vertical overlay
um I'm not I'm I'm so sorry I can't
there's a couple words at the end I can
read by reveal on but I I can't read the
rest and then we did receive comments
online
um
one two three four five six looks like
uh seven opposed and then Tara was
formed
thank you I think the last one was for
the that last one you read was for the
last project for the revulon case and um
so if at least got it into the record
that that was for the Ruby long case
um
somebody just sent me an email to text
message to remind me that we have two
consent items and I appreciate that
thank you we've been keeping an eye on
that
I will ask
the applicant if they would like to come
back and comment on anything I don't
know that you need to with Tara because
she's even sitting there with you in the
audience
yes and Tara I commend you I saw your
posts on social media on Facebook and I
very much appreciated when you
um educated yourself to the project and
you went back out and explained it to
the public because a lot of times people
will go out and drop the bomb but they
don't go out and clean the mess up and
I'm not saying that You Dropped a Bomb
I'm just using that as a as an example
they don't go out and then say
I found out what the real what the facts
are here's what's really going on and I
appreciate that you did that thank you
so much and thank you for your comments
this evening Steph do you have anything
to follow up with on this no sorry I'm
looking at Ashley and I'm supposed to be
looking at you Keith it's getting late
I will go ahead and close the public
hearing bring it back to the council for
our discussion
remember if I may just
um Tara I hope that you will join us in
our community outreach on how we can
communicate and do a better job of
getting people involved early and I
think you have some amazing ideas and I
hope you'll share those with us and I
appreciate the time that you took to
organize your neighborhood and and come
together to find a compromise that made
a much better project for not only your
neighborhood but for the whole community
so thank you for that
um
um let's see if I had any other well I
have the microphone
um
uh you know I think that with our
Lindsay interchange opening it's a great
time to
um recruit the great kind of businesses
that will help us Thrive into the future
and you set the stage for that so thank
you to all the neighbors thank you
thank you councilmember vice mayor
um I was actually pretty skeptical of
this item because I I do see you know
when you when you make rezonings for any
sort of industrial Light or just general
industrial those can open up some pretty
heavy uses and have some pretty uh
onerous impacts on neighbors so I was
happy to see anticipated kind of
um you know what kind of information
would be important to make good
decisions up here and address to those
very specifically and so I think at the
end of the day you could see where kind
of the extra legwork paid off
um and bringing people on board so that
we could mitigate as many impacts
neighbors as potentially possible and so
appreciate the work from both sides and
I think it's probably a better project
because of it thanks well said
mayor yes
Mr rimsa I want to thank you for your
investment in this project and I know
it's an investment I know you took time
to drive to their offices and spend time
with them and then go back meet with the
neighbors
um I it was months ago it might have
been April or before I actually reached
out to somebody who emailed me from that
Community with a lot of concerns and
just just and I don't remember who that
was at the moment I was looking in my
notes but I'm just glad to see this work
out so well and I just I I just can't
thank you enough for engaging in the
community and then Benjamin
congratulations I can't imagine a better
standard for Success than to have
someone from the community that you
worked with go to that Podium and speak
so highly of you in the project and to
carry your water so to speak
so good good job and thank you for for
all the effort and to even to even work
and continue to work on adding ccnr's
after the fact of new mutually
undesirable uses I it just I mean it's
just a win for the community thank you
both of you
anyone like to
any other comments or would anyone like
to attack tackle emotion and we would
need to again for this one the GP and
the zoning
motion to approve 16 8. but motion Bye
by smear can I have a second
a second
we need our screen cleared oh thanks
Judy please vote
foreign
Anderson so I'm assuming
knowing that he is on teams so I'm not
sure councilmember Anderson are you
still with us
that's what I was thinking
so can you can you just run that with
the six votes please Judy
thank you the motion pass is six zero
motion to approve 16 B I have a motion
by vice mayor a second a second second
by council member tooki please vote
oh Council memory Anderson's back
and that motion passes seven zero thank
you everyone we have one more
item on a republic hearing agenda then
we have two items on our consent that we
need to go back to the last item on our
public hearing agenda is the
Western Canal Corridor analysis
it's under other on our agenda so which
we know it at best is WW 1060. I'll go
ahead and open the public hearing ask
the staff to come down and do a staff
report for WW 1060 at all because
there's a lot of numbers there
foreign
okay I think we need a second to get set
up anyway so take your time
councilmember tilkey
foreign
thank you
I don't think it's right first time
are you okay if I put my stuff right
there no David
of course
yeah of course
foreign
oh thank you
I think I think we can all do that's the
beauty of her
team
are We Are we almost set
yeah thank you
all right
do I press any button
waiting for them to yeah mayor Peterson
I apologize there's a problem with the
system and it would need to be reset in
order for us to be able to hear council
member Anderson okay would you like to
take a like a three-minute recess or
would you like to proceed a different
way
I think we press on at this hour
sorry councilmember Anderson if you have
a comment can can he message you Judy
absolutely in the chat that way can we
do that or email whichever is easier
thank you thank you
I don't know if they can
thank you and do we have a video they're
working on your video thank you sorry
it's getting warm down here
I think they still shut off the AC after
10.
okay completely kidding
nope we're getting close
that's a presentation
we have a presentation on WW 1060.
yeah improvise
The Improv tonight
no go get it
thank you we have would you like to
introduce yourselves please
good evening mayor and Council Leah
reinheimer assistant Town manager
Madam mayor members of the council David
Fabiano Town engineer
thank you
thank you
thank you very much for the opportunity
to present this information to you and
to the community this evening
serving our community is not just at the
heart of what we do but it is why we do
it our community has fundamental needs
that must be fulfilled and as we know
quite well this evening sometimes these
needs overlap and sometimes they
intersect or even compete with one
another and balancing competing needs
can often be one of the greatest
challenges that we face in public
service
for this reason it's important for us to
keep our why at the front and center of
what we're doing fundamentally our why
just as your why is about serving our
community
serving the community at large will
always be our greatest responsibility
and we know that you hold that trust
very sacred as well with over a hundred
lines of service the town of Gilbert
team strives every day from Council all
the way to the front lines to make
Gilbert a great place for its residents
businesses and visitors
how we do that is by maintaining an
exceptionally built environment
that is how we provide for the quality
of life that Gilbert has become known
for maintaining an exceptionally built
environment is one of our three key
Focus areas as we strive to keep Gilbert
the thriving and vibrant and sustainable
community that it is today but well into
the future
I love this slide I love the images on
this slide I think it's beautiful to
look at and to see how vibrant and
beautiful our community has grown the
conversation this evening is about WW
1060 and the specifics of that project
which David will get into but it is also
really a conversation about the future
of our community these images represent
not just who we are today but what we
aspire to be for the generations to come
much of Gilbert's infrastructure is
invisible it can't be seen in the larger
Community it's the hidden hero I like to
call it that stays behind the scenes but
without it
water wouldn't run toilets wouldn't
flush travel couldn't occur and
businesses could not thrive
when infrastructure fails the impacts
are real time and often very visible
and so while this is what we are and
what we aspire to maintain for the next
several decades this is what we are
working very diligently to avoid
it is our responsibility to properly
maintain and protect Gilbert's critical
infrastructure and to protect the
community when infrastructure failures
do occur on this slide are images of
real life local and Regional
infrastructure failures of the exact
same type that we are concerned about
with the WW 1060 corridor
there are also two national examples of
real life crises infrastructure crises
that can occur when we fail to invest in
and protect our critical infrastructure
and infrastructure failures are very
serious in and of themselves however the
consequences go beyond just a potential
disruption in service or a contamination
it can also include the loss of the
greater Trust of the community
and so as we've learned from some of the
national examples
our core our core mission is to protect
Public Health by protecting public
infrastructure
a recent survey conducted by the
development Research Institute found
that Americans across the political
Spectrum believe that infrastructure was
the most important National priority
more than covid-19 tax rates Etc our
core Mission here today is to protect
the public health of this community by
protecting public infrastructure
and so as our town engineer David is
going to walk through the specifics of
the project
these are the core values that have been
guiding this effort as they do on every
project protecting our communities for
today protecting Gilbert for the future
and doing that through the most careful
and thoughtful stewardship of our
resources and so with that David
thank you Leah mayor members of the
council tonight what I hope I'm sharing
is a synopsis of information that has
all been previously shared
with the property owners in the in the
project area project 1060 WWE 1016 also
there's two other wa 1546 and wa 1246
are all happening in this exact same
corridor
um the area in discussion today it
impacts 24 Residential Properties
between Lindsay and Gilbert Road
Leah the town facilities here are 36
inch gravity flow Wastewater Interceptor
an 18-inch reclaimed water transmission
made in a 24 inch water transmission
main the installation of the 36 inch
gravity sewer Interceptor shown in green
here on this screen in just a moment was
completed in 1986 in a 25 foot wide
utility easement
south of that there's an 18 inch
reclaimed water transmission main it
will be shown in purple
if the Technologies catches up with this
in a moment and we'll get back to it
that's shown in purple
in that same 25-foot easement south of
that there's a 24 inch water
transmission main it was completed in 91
through the Western Canal right-of-way
and Mineral Avenue right of way which is
now part of the residential Parcels on
the East End of the project
um
David can you pause for a moment I hate
to interrupt you but I think we might
have a
a technical glitch that maybe we have
the wrong
is that the wrong presentation
it's credit it's just not working
I want you to I want us to be able to
see what you're talking about absolutely
thank you
foreign
[Applause]
sometimes technology does exactly what
we want and other times it does exactly
what it wants hopefully those Collide
more frequently than not
so there you see that 36 inch
sewer Interceptor that 18 inch reclaimed
water transmission Main and then that 24
inch water transmission main that's
coming in there these utilities are
critical and they impact in their impact
to the community cannot be overstated
none of these pipelines can be out of
service for any appreciable amount of
time without Extraordinary Measures
being put into place
these three pipelines serve a major
portion of the Town their combined
service areas extend from Arizona Avenue
on the western limits to Power Road on
the Eastern limits of the town from our
Northern boundary at Baseline and Beyond
by the hospital down to Railroad and
Beyond towards the hospital south of
Elvis on Val Vista
combine these pipelines impact and serve
more than 38 thousand
dwelling units that's about 118 000 or
so residents We Believe
they serve 1400 commercial businesses
within this same service area there are
two hospitals that each year have over
140 000 patients visit them and staff
don't know how many staff 38 schools in
this service area more than 21 000
students every day plus staff
foreign
of the reclaimed water use in this
Northern Area goes through that 18 inch
reclamp transmission Main
we can't live without it there are two
major universities and their programs
that were welcome to the town of Gilbert
recently and they served nearly a
thousand students they're in the same
service area
there are more than one and a half
million visitors that come to the
Heritage District every year in Gilbert
right here where this project is is
being contemplated it's critical to the
entire town that these facilities be
preserved and protected for the public
health and for the Vitality of our
community
foreign
Gilbert was very different a very
different environment in 1985 and 1986
when the Wastewater Interceptor and the
reclaimed water transmission main were
constructed these two images
it was a largely rural area back then
and the transformation over the past 36
years has been drastic on this slide you
can see the two different facilities
shown in or the three different
facilities again shown in green purple
and blue we're looking in much closer
both on the north on the top and on the
bottom the image on the top is from 2022
the image on the bottom is from 1986.
if you look at this comparison and it
should start sliding by force you can
see clearly however time what was open
land where these facilities could easily
be accessed and taken care of it's
transformed and become very constrained
due to encroachments in the easement
area this change is due to Decisions by
numerous parties
these obstructions today provide
challenges to the ongoing operation and
maintenance and Rehabilitation of these
critical facilities
the utility quarter along the western
canal and srp's transmission facilities
it's Unique it really only exists here
in Gilbert like this by having our
primary water transmission main for the
north part of the town and our primary
reclaimed water transmission made for
the north part of town and our largest
Wastewater Interceptor for the north
part of the town all in one alignment it
renders this Corridor critical
I'm repeating this and returning to this
image again for context the best
comparison I believe that most of us can
visualize and maybe connect with is our
roadway system here in the East Valley
when you look at that map there's lots
of things that come to your mind this
quarter for Water waste water and
reclaimed water is akin to the US-60 the
Superstition freeway we all recognize it
easily looking up at that map
so many of us depend on it every single
day a local Street in the neighborhood
Laurel Avenue or Campbell Avenue a few
blocks north of this area most people
don't know they're there they're
extremely important to those people who
live on those roads but most of the
committee will never drive on those
roads they don't know their names and
they don't wear their know where they're
located
everyone in town knows the U.S 60
because we all have used it every one of
us
and we all rely so heavily on it the
situation described here and under
consideration is an exception to
reasonable and recommended standards of
practice for utility providers having
this significant infrastructure within
easements through Residential Properties
is very uncommon within the town it
happens in very few locations most of
them are these 24 properties in this
location we're considering tonight
failures of infrastructure are not ifs
but wins the likelihood of a failure is
one hundred percent it happens regularly
throughout the town you have a team of
Highly dedicated Public Works
professionals who work every day to
avoid these but when they cannot be
avoided to correct them as quickly and
as unobtrusively as possible this in the
next several slides share some
photographs of failures of these exact
pieces of infrastructure these images
have all been taken during the time that
this project has been underway
this slide shows a blockage due to
debris in the Wastewater line the major
blockage was cleared an hour or two
before raw sewage began to spill into
Freestone Park at a rate of about 2 000
gallons per minute
the image on the left and this next
slide shows the lining on a 36 inch
Wastewater receptor delaminating or
detaching the line is in active failure
now you can see where the joint is
falling apart and the bubbles that are
forming behind there because the
concrete is being destroyed by the
environment that exists in sewer system
the environment in this Interceptor is
extremely corrosive the hydrogen sulfide
gas and attendant sulfuric acid formed
in the airspace of these pipes and it
always happens it cannot be avoided
eats away at any defects this image is
from this pipe in this area
the image on the right is of a manhole
in this area
the lining on the manhole has detached
delaminated and is falling into the line
below and it can impede and possibly
block that interceptor with the lining
failed the concrete and the manhole
deteriorates much faster leading to even
more failure issues that need to be
dealt with
the image on the left of this one
shows a Wastewater collection line where
sinkhole is forming you see the busted
top of the pipe out and then just the
void space up above it that's a sinkhole
that's in that's forming this line is
underneath that water transmission Main
in this corridor the the sinkhole puts
the water transmission main at risk and
it has to be shut that water
transmission main had to be shut down
for a few days so the repair could be
made with multiple critical facilities
at risk this repair ended up costing
about four hundred thousand dollars to
complete you can see the extent of what
had to happen for that to occur
it's probably safe to say that most of
the residents in the town of Gilbert did
not know of the extraordinary steps that
were being taken to avoid interrupting
their water and sewer services
the last three slides shared different
failures on sewer facilities this is one
on the reclaimed water transmission
system
this one is a reportable incident to the
Arizona Department of Environmental
Quality reclaimed water use is highly
regulated this was an unauthorized spill
that had to be taken care of and cleaned
up
the images these images show different
failures on the water transmission line
in this Corridor these failures are due
to the pipe deteriorating over time
this pipe was placed into service in
1991. earlier Leah shared an image of
the US-60 at McClintock as it was
flooded
most of us recall when the US-60 was
shut down for several weeks earlier this
year that was for a water transmission
main failure that was a 24 inch pipe
this is a 24 inch pipe it was the same
type of pipe material bar wrapped
concrete cylinder pipe same one we have
it was a similar vintage to the pipe we
have here in this corridor
that middle image that you're seeing
right there is one that was found with
an electromagnetic magnetic testing
robot that was dispatched earlier in
this part earlier in this part of the
year it was repaired before the pipe was
placed back into service avoiding a
catastrophic failure and damage to
property
these other images show the location
where we discovered it by a water
spouting out of the ground because it
burst it failed and that's how we find
it when those things happen I think
happens it happened in Freestone Park
these images here show where
construction activity caused a failure
a contractor working for Salt River
Project drilled through this
transmission vein that was quite a
problem situation for us the repair took
several days to complete under emergency
conditions and led to a flurry of
activity to keep water service minimally
interrupted most people never knew this
happened
you can see the next day on that image
on the right water's Still Standing
because how much was spilled even though
we responded right away and shut that
pipe down and were able to shut it down
because the valves operated because they
had just been repaired as quickly as
possible
I'm reading reiterating again failures
are not an if but a when and where these
images again
all happened
during the time that this project has
been underway and are all on these exact
same facilities
since February of 2021 the project team
has been reaching out to and met with
the residential these res 24 residential
property owners
this project is a Major Impact for those
24 property owners
the team completed a preliminary
analysis on 10 different options that
were looked at they the team reached out
to SRP multiple times and presented
those options SRP eliminated six of
those options
because they included land and their
lateral 9.5 what we call the Western
Canal that land is owned by the Bureau
of Reclamation it's not owned by SRP
it's reserved for power and irrigation
and that is something that they would
not allow those uses to let us relocate
and get out of those backyards
the four remaining options were started
studied in Greater detail
and this image is from the website where
the those impacted and other residents
could look at and could see the
different options from different
perspectives and different Vantage
points to see what was being considered
a fifth option was added based upon
feedback from residents
this is a brief synopsis of those five
again this this information all this and
more was shared with the residents and
I'm only sharing a brief description
tonight option one is to purchase the
easement from the each property owner
and then complete the sewer Interceptor
Rehabilitation restore the fences in the
to the new property location and put
back as best we're able to cure the to
cure any damages and losses that may
have occurred to those residents
option two is to clear the easement
complete the rehabilitation build back
fences where they're in their current
locations construct an internal barrier
or marker of some sort along the north
edge of the easement and then Gates
between each of the properties is
created in a utility Corridor alley
option three would clear the easement
purchase a portion of the easement
around each manhole complete the
rehabilitation tear down reconstruct
because I in every one of these the
fences are going to be coming down
because of the impact of the
construction so there's going to be
disruptions we can't avoid that to the
into these property owners and we really
do regret that but we don't have any
other alternative
um option three again clear the easement
purchase a portion around the manholes
complete the rehabilitation reconstruct
along the and then reconstruct things
along that route
option four clear the easement complete
the rehabilitation reconstruct things
install larger gates for Access into
those properties
and then option five is similar to
option four clears the easement
relocates the reclaimed water line out
of this area in their backyards and puts
it up in Juniper Avenue that is one that
would and runs it through the
neighborhood
um each and every one of these options
the clearing of the easement and
maintaining that easement in a clear and
accessible condition is essential
on the failure mode you're seeing things
flash up here again there's several
different examples of what happens there
are blockages that happen in these
breaks that happen there's mechanical
damages that happen to them there is
corrosion that happens in all of them
and there is construction damage that
happens from other things that are not
us but it's the but we own these
facilities and we have to take care of
them
when we look at the comparison of the
options the analysis was extensive and
through it all only one option provides
an appropriate level of access and
protection for all of the facility all
of these facilities for all of these
failure modes that happen in this
corridor contemporarily
the engineer performed this assessment
evaluated and has recommended option one
is the most appropriate
is the most appropriate for the corridor
the construction manager at risk who's
been working on this project likewise
shares their input
the town attorney's office has shared
their feedback and I cannot speak for
them
as a town engineer this is a very
difficult situation
I
in my three decades working as a
professional engineer I've only
experienced one situation that was as
troubled as this one along 99th Avenue
North of olive there was a 24 inch sewer
main that belonged to Citizens utilities
there was a failure on that mostly
retirees lived there so nobody fell in
to the sinkhole it open in a backyard
99th Avenue thank heavens was right
there and we were able to go in as a
consultant we relocated that line out of
those rear yards and put it into 99th
Avenue
we don't have 99th Avenue here
this is a situation that I absolutely
I wish there was a way that we could
turn back the clock and not have made
the decisions we made as a community
Through The Years that have created this
situation that is really not appropriate
and not to
and something that we need to cure
and with that I my recommendation again
is knowing that it is a tremendous
impact for which I wish there was a cure
but option one is truly the most
responsible decision and the only
responsible decision I can recommend is
a professional engineer thank you
thank you mayor neighbors and mayor and
members of Council of Jessica Barlow
Public Works director
um the public works department has
responsibility for thousands of miles of
pipelines throughout our community and
billions of dollars in assets this
Corridor is a utility Super Highway
containing some of the largest and most
critical water Wastewater and reclaimed
water infrastructure in our system
option one is the only option that
provides unrestricted visibility and
access and guarantees that that
infrastructure remains free of future
obstructions we have to be able to
properly respond to any type of failure
that occurs along this critical
infrastructure
um earlier Leah shared what we do as a
town what we strive to be as a community
we've we've crossed our first century of
Township and are looking to the Future
as the infrastructure continues to age
the need for maintenance repair and
replacement becomes even more critical
and the likelihood of failure even
greater more than 270 000 residents call
Gilbert home and nearly 120 000 of them
are directly impacted and use this
infrastructure every day in addition to
the hundreds of thousands of other
Hospital users students business patrons
and visitors to the town
reliable and maintainable infrastructure
is the little literal Foundation the
exceptional built environment that the
community is built on and that what is
what makes Gilbert such a desirable and
livable community
we take in public works we take the
commitment to deliver on the
responsibility for the maintenance
operation repair replacement of that
infrastructure very seriously
and as such coming to this
recommendation has been very difficult
has been very challenging we've
undertaken exhaustive efforts to try to
identify a suitable alternative to
acquisition of that easement and fee we
have heard and listened to and
empathized with the residents and the
impact we know that the impact to them
is great and it's it's very difficult
it's not a decision that we make lightly
but knowing
the tens and hundreds of thousands of
other people within the community that
rely on this infrastructure every day
that don't have another alternative we
don't have another place to put it we
we have to recommend in favor of the
larger community and its needs so this
the staff recommendation as you're
hearing tonight is to proceed with
option one
um which is easement acquisition and fee
per resolution 4217 that was previously
approved by Council and then also
authorize Our Town manager to approve
necessary change orders for design and
land acquisition for the project
thank you thanks Tim
um any comment any questions for the
team before we open the public comment
mayor can I just ask we will have an
opportunity to ask them after the public
comments absolutely I guess there's no
applicant in this case it's just the
town so we've had their presentation now
I'll ask the vice mayor to start the
public comment
s we will have Debbie Kuhn
yeah
and then we'll have Zane Hamid and Omar
Hamid
and then Ron
that's our lineup for now and three
minutes
wow that was really strong and bold
very over well done that's all I can say
I think you've exaggerated and one is
not the only option no
okay I'm just going to try to read this
because I'm my emotions are really high
uh so this to the planning committee and
to the Town Council to please hear us
and help us
you say you need 24-hour access to
repair and monitor the pipes we said
okay
you say you need our land cleared away
for Open Access anytime we said okay
you say
you said you should present our plan
that both sides could live with we said
okay and so we have shared several
excellent much cheaper access options
for what you had already had then what
you'd already had
we had shared options that are millions
of dollars cheaper
you said you were worried if we sell our
property the next homeowners May
obstruct your your access so you just
wanted to have it we say we can simply
update our ccnrs to require constant
open clear access for Town maintenance
in the back of our properties
we see the entire back we see I didn't
bring my readers sorry we see the entire
back property four times a day as we
care for the horses this isn't rocket
science you don't need to permanently
take our property away placing the wall
in the way of our view will hinder
supervision of the ground over the pipes
even more
we're back there all the time
we can absolutely rebuild the fence but
we can't rebuild our much needed space
and the value to our homes and land we
have committed to you that you can
always have access to the back of our
property we will but will you allow us
the same courtesy will you please
we are trying our very best to be easy
and fair to each other what about you
we are willing to work with you and
clear away a chunk of our land
this is a tremendous expense sacrifice
to us in so many ways from all of from
all of us homeowners this nightmare has
been a stressful and sickening for two
years now this is most unfair costly and
as you said it just so you can have it
for the next 500 years
a grab on our property where it isn't
necessary you shouldn't say to someone
who's been so poor having nothing and
has blood and sweat tears for their home
please consider again we shared much
better and cheaper options
we are asking for option four it makes
the most sense for everyone we would we
would clear everything I will we will
tear down the barn I can move the barn
but I need the space
and we can have wide Gates all of us can
have Gates on option four you can come
and go whenever you want
um
good evening mayor and council members
my name is Zane Hamid and I'm a student
at Gilbert Classical Academy I'm here to
talk to you about WW 1060.
uh first of all this corrupt this
project costs way too much money and
with that money you could be using it
with so many other things that benefits
Gilbert for example schools that will
really help out the town
uh this project if this project affects
24 homes which is not good at all
because all these people are being
affected
and from personal experience people
moved to Gilbert to enjoy their life and
spend time with their family and this
project does not
what the town wants it's what the
council wants
so I'm asking for you guys to vote with
option four and again this project is
not a need it is a want so I'm asking
that you vote with option four which
will work together with the council and
the citizens and honest like again I'm
asking please to vote with option four
thank you
foreign
after Omar we'll have Ron and then
Stacy Adams and then Nolan Baldwin good
evening Maritime Council this is Omar
Hamid you've probably seen me many times
I live on Honeysuckle Lane I'm here
tonight to talk about the WWE 1060
project as a concerned homeowner I would
like you to consider the falling
the town manager and the engineers
working under him mainly Mr Montgomery
Mr Fabiano are disingenuous they decided
on their own two years ago that taking
the land from the homeowners is the only
option they want the only way we found
out is when we finally we got a notice
that they were going to take our land
and we and we went and talked to this
talk to the council
all so-called options were presented
to the council and to us was just to
appease to the homeowners and the
council look we did a study and taking
land was the best option that's all they
could come up with well they did that
two years ago so that's just not
believable
Town manager and his team work for you
and taxpayers do not let them spoon feed
in heavy hand the council eminent domain
cannot be selectively applied the same
pipeline runs through the middle of
Freestone Park and the commercial
properties west of our homes if Council
decides to go with a town manager and
his team homeowners will seek other
options and I will just bring further
negative publicity as you saw today
so please reject option one just because
the engineers want our land does not
mean they have to have it homeowners
would like your support for option one
maybe option three has a viable second
option option four and three will also
save the Gilbert taxpayers about four
million dollars not a small change
I appreciate your support
your time and your leadership tonight
thank you
thank you
foreign
city council I'm Ron Kuhn
um
the the part that I'm going to talk
about is that here's a picture they're
not given the the engineers aren't given
the full picture this is a this is the
apartments on the west side of Gilbert
Road that share the same sewer the as
you can see the manhole is very close to
these buildings closer than closer than
what's at the back of our acre okay so
there there is a lot going on on this
line a lot a lot of things that are
affected by that okay all we ask all we
ask please is I I saw some uh you know
when we uh celebrated Bernie's long-term
here on Gilbert we all love living here
I'm going I'm I've been here over 35
years I love living in Gilbert I just I
just ask you guys to please look at
these other options it uh
um it's it's much more uh not as
expensive the taking our lands is the
most expensive there is
and then of course we've got structures
that are there there also our barn was
was uh permitted so I mean our other
neighbors have buildings too so not only
do we have buildings that that the city
approved on this on this easement
um like I said we've also got uh
manholes that are you it doesn't show
there's a there's a storage area just
further on down towards Gilbert Road
didn't say anything about that that's
got sewage running through it we've got
these apartments on the other side of
Gilbert Road on the west side of Gilbert
Road they're still running by it so
there's all kinds of things we're just
asking you to to look at it and look at
those other options that than other
other than option one thank you very
much
feel on a picturing
you can see that
so we have Stacy the Nolan after Nolan
we'll have Tom Patterson and then Becky
Leeming
good evening Council
um yay Benny okay
um just wanted to let you know that that
um that slide that it showed you the
purple and the green lines was a little
bit disingenuous because the reclaimed
water line wasn't put in until 1991 so
don't think that you've been shown the
true and honest account of what is
really happening and that reclaimed
water line is actually running across
three of my neighbor's properties that
is not um hasn't been they haven't been
compensated for that water line since
it's been put in so that's additional
money that needs to be clarified and
brought up as a part of this for
consideration
all of the options have that slaved
lining okay this is supposed to be a 100
Year solution to this problem if this
problem is so eminent you guys then why
wasn't the um that manhole that had that
sleeve that was kind of caving in and
following that's my manhole if it was so
goddamn dangerous why didn't you guys
take that stuff out of there and stop
the blockage from happening you left it
in there it's still in there friends if
it is so dangerous we need to take the
property that's running across Freestone
Park and block it off if it is so
dangerous we need to take this line out
in totality not just piece mail it out
and affect 24 homeowners you have never
town of Gilbert been denied access to
this line or these manhole covers ever
since you've put it in
check the records
there is an easement in place for a
reason and we have been abiding by that
easement and it can continue in place
let's work together let's in hand in
hand in good spirit and let's choose
option four at the least cost available
okay and if you can't then choose option
three which only affects the four
homeowners and not the totality of the
entire group I'm a owner with a with a
sewer manhole cover and I am willing to
do that and sacrifice that for the good
of my neighbors
will you please do what's honorable and
right and just and financially prudent
and choose option four thank you
hello my name is Nolan Baldwin I do live
in this area
um all evening we've been listening to
people previously uh talking about the
impact of on their neighborhoods from
other property
from the neighboring property around the
corner or somewhere else
and this is the only one this evening
we're talking about our property taking
our property that's even a little harder
to handle than the noise or whatever
might be happening next door this is our
property that they're talking about
taking and in every case tonight we've
seen where the developers have made
concessions the developers have tried to
work with the owners and tried to come
up with some solutions that could work
for everybody and we commended Tara for
doing that for working with them and the
developer for working back and it worked
great it was great to see that happen
um after uh start this started two years
ago and then after four or five months
of coming down here and speaking I
appreciate it mayor asked the
Sewer Department to work with the home
homeowners and come up with some
solutions and we stopped our media
blitzes in our rallies and everything
that we were doing to try to make some
space where we could work together with
them and there wasn't much working
together they did their studies which we
haven't seen no results nobody's told us
anything and now they asked us to come
and meet with them and they tell us
we're going to recommend that we take
your property anyway
uh in the beginning it was only about
the sewer then once we argued that the
sewer could be fixed without taking our
property the Public Works started
talking about the reclaimed water line
that was never in the original thing
about taking our property
um
they want the property and I understand
that if they have the property then it
answers all their problems
if they take the property it answers all
the problems and they can do whatever
they want from here on and that does
make it easier so there's no reason no
wonder that we recommend taking the
property it it makes everything easier
but is it right
I'm going to share a couple of facts
that maybe they haven't shared with you
oh
it's fast
sewer line reclaimed water line will
need repairs now I think we all know
that it goes downhill uh so ever since
Adam things have deteriorated roads
sewer lines everything deteriorates and
it needs repaired according to town
numbers the cost to do repairs are the
same with or without our land the
quality of repairs would be the same
with or without our land the risk to
homeowners would remain the same as much
as they'll tell you that's not true our
property was graded to be watered from
behind our houses originally
that property is higher than our
property that we live on so no matter
what they do the water's still going to
come into our property Town having
visual access doesn't solve the problem
if you look at the pictures that they
show you on Greenfield Road There Is
people driving by the freeways people
driving by
and
all right Tom and then Becky and then
we'll have uh Chris laming
hello my name is Tom Patterson I live
off of 241 East Hemlock Avenue
um
sounds like the money and research that
has gone on uh since we've been having
these meetings with the town management
and Council
have
the more research and money that we've
been given to do research into other
areas
have just gone back into what looks like
scare tactics
um on why we they need to be replaced
giving examples from Greenfield and
Tempe
um instead of coming up with additional
options
one of the reasons why you say that our
our land is needed is uh for visibility
but you can see into our backyards I'm
pretty sure you've flown drones through
our backyards before so you could see
anything you want we've got easement
Gates that allow access anytime
um
the last thing is is that you guys keep
saying that there's no plans for use of
this land on the east side of Gilbert
Road in the canal but on the Gilbert
town website it says that
there's future plans of having farmers
markets and
festivals down in this canal I mean
so obviously it's right there but you
don't need to take our backyards to do
that
[Music]
um
consider option four that's the best
option
um
thank you
good evening my name is Becky leaming my
husband Chris and I have three children
that attend Gilbert Public Schools we've
lived we have been Gilbert residents for
12 years earlier this year we purchased
our home along the western Canal
choosing this home solely for its yard
for our kids and pets and for its close
proximity to downtown Gilbert and
Freestone Park we are one of the 24 own
homeowners that will be affected by the
pending vote tonight while purchasing
our home it was disclosed to us at sewer
pipe repairs were needed and that the
mayor had instructed the towns team to
work with the 24 homeowners on a
resolution that all parties were
satisfied with this ultimately led to
five options that are up for
consideration Chris and I intended an
informal update meeting on November 2nd
where the town member stated they have
come to the decision that option one is
the only option this was our first
meeting with the town regarding this
issue and it was very apparent that the
team has been close-minded and hasn't
given any consideration to the cheaper
and less disruptive options we've asked
for a third party report showing the
current conditions of the Sue our pipe
we asked why it was necessary to take
land from 24 homeowners when only four
properties have manholes to access the
pipe we asked why it was necessary to
take our land when the pipe hasn't
needed repairs in almost 40 years and
this leaving to be put in and put in
place is estimated to last 100 years but
I'm not here just on behalf of 24
homeowners trying to keep our land the
land that we and 23 other families have
worked hard for I'm also here as a
taxpayer at one of the 270 000 residents
of Gilbert it is estimated that the
utility improvements alone will cost
over 16 million dollars land
Acquisitions and improvements will cost
almost 5 million dollars putting the
total cost at over 20 million dollars
is unlikely within with due to recent
inflation in the demand for increased
wages we'll even meet this amount as a
taxpayer I think it's ludicrous that the
team thinks that spending an additional
five million dollars of our hard-earned
tax dollars on this land acquisition is
Justified especially when only four
yards need to be accessed to perform
these repairs yes just four
these four homeowners have already
agreed to take the manholes to make the
manholes accessible 24 7
and under 24 7
unobstructed by structures in
landscaping the team didn't care didn't
want to listen and did not want to
consider this option if option one is
chosen
many of us homeowners have permitted
structures that the town will need to
pay to relocate or rebuild irrigated
Lots will need to be re-graded and
re-piped mature trees will need to be
uprooted and relocated animals will lose
their barns in grazing field children
will lose their play area we will lose
what we have worked hard for and it will
cost the town's taxpayers over 5 million
dollars
as a resident and a taxpayer I ask that
you consider option 4 or option 3 in
that order both of which are much
cheaper than option one Not only would
it be fiscally irresponsible to choose
option one you would be wasting five
million dollars of taxpayer money that
could be used to improve road conditions
five million dollars that can go towards
education and teacher wages five million
dollars that can go towards Public
Safety five million dollars that can be
used to further develop the town of
Gilbert thank you
foreign
and then Julia mccleaf
hi I'm Chris leaming I don't know how to
follow up on that one I think she hit
about every nail in the head right there
um but honestly I don't know who your
team is lying to they're either lying to
us as the residents or right lying to
you as a council member because when we
met on November 2nd their numbers were
vastly different in who it affects and
how it affects what they told us and
what they told you guys so we would like
to see an independent study on from
somebody else a third party non-biased
team to go in there and tell us what the
actual costs are we're not denying that
the pipes don't need repair the pipes
need repair and to repair the pipes they
need access to four homes those
homeowners are willing to give up access
to make the repairs needed not take land
from 20 other homeowners to do future
what-ifs a pipe breaks well if you're
spending 16 million dollars on a on a
pipe repair that should last 100 years
why do you need our land
if the pipe breaks it doesn't matter if
the wall is here or 15 feet off to the
side if that pipe breaks that water
still going to flow downhill through our
irrigated property out in the streets
so why spend another five million
dollars more not only on top of that the
2.5 million dollar in acquisition cost
does not take into account our actual
property value that is based off a raw
dirt acreage average in the town of
Gilbert not our actual Community our
neighborhood property value on top of
that 1.7 million dollars in site
improvements that doesn't take into
account our custom Gates our barns our
Stables our trees that are are shade
trees and citrus trees that have been
there for 30 plus years growing you
can't replace that you can't just go
down to Home Depot and put another Tree
in that's going to be that large this is
irreplaceable land to us these are
irreplaceable trees to us this property
is very valuable I am a newer homeowner
here and when I came in to buy it I was
the most recent one I finally after 12
years of living in Gilbert found the one
piece of property that was going to be
our forever home for my kids okay it was
overpriced because like everything else
is right now and then I got into bidding
more that property was priceless to me I
made sure that I won that bidding war
because that other ten thousand fifty
thousand whatever I paid on top of the
price of the house did not matter to me
because that property meant more than
anything for my kids my animals and the
future of my family
giving me
five dollars a square foot or whatever
the heck is on on this estimate it's a
joke that isn't going to replace my
Gates it isn't going to give me my land
back it isn't going to allow my
grandkids to grow up there in that size
of the property it's going to devalue my
home even further than what more
construction will do so I'm in favor of
going with option four
be be financially sound and save the
time the taxpayers a large sum of money
thank you
okay hi my name is Christy and I am
a daughter of Debbie and Ron and I
am here to say
um you need to fix these sewers and they
should ask for these 50 to 100 years
Gilbert wrote to Lindsay can be repaired
in three days when they blow in the
lining to the last 50 to 100 years
there's been no communication with us
for a plan for our horses it's scary
your plans will impact on me as Christy
as she as I depend on the horses for
therapy
um I also need help with the horses to
keep in bed and you know happy and stuff
and they're my therapy taking the horses
somewhere else is not an option we
rebuild the barn you are set to destroy
as soon as possible and keep our a
assets open to the back of the property
we have a grandfathered cause to have
horses and have access to them we depend
on our horses and the spaces for them we
can't let you take our dreams and so
much of what we have worked so hard for
away from us it's not the best choice
for the town anyway so please consider
and choose the option for or if not then
option three please we have asked will
we be able to bring hay and bead have a
vet call visit or a horse trailer to
pick up and drop off at our back Gates
no reply yet will they be able to drive
our vehicles to our back properties
there is no history if Gilbert ever
needing it for all these years option
one is estimated to cost 5 million
dollars more than what you have shown us
and it doesn't include the legal fees
you will spend to obtain our property
because we will fight it even Joan that
option four is a reasonable option for
each of us to put in large gates for
24-Hour assets you don't need to use
imminent domain to take our land away
from us if not option four then option
three is okay with us too and it is very
very important for me to have horses and
chickens in my backyard for
um very nice peaceful therapy for me as
um
a special needs a girl person they
always keep me
um
very well exercised and um
feeling like I have peace in mind just
writing and then taking care of the
horses it's so nice to have horses in
our backyard and I think if you just
take the if you take the barn away from
us or 21 inches away from us it'll be
less of a huge property to keep and our
beautiful biker won't be so beautiful
anymore with a barn full of horses and
we even painted the parts the barn red
and white and well if we have to get a
new bar and we'll never be the same
again and I'll be sad to move the horse
someplace else to live because they feel
really nice and home with us in our
backyard
and we love each and every one of them
and even of our chickens
thank you very much
Julia yeah
good evening Madam mayor and council
members I'm often heard after a long
presentation you hear the first three
minutes and you remember the last three
minutes so I hope hope we're all paying
attention I uh they live at 436 North
Honeysuckle Lane in Gilbert I've lived
in Gilbert
50 years my husband actually was part of
the development of the property where
many of these homeowners are being
affected as well as us and we're still
friends so I'm kind of grateful for that
we've talked a lot about tonight I heard
from your staff about fundamental needs
a fundamental need is something you
really need it isn't a want
it's not a hope you need it
and this all pertains to the manholes no
matter anybody says it sees manholes if
we're the sky is going to fall and those
scenarios that we saw
underneath Greenfield Road not by our
property or down in Tempe in the freeway
it's not the same thing
it's visual needs we have that if you go
up over the bridge over Freestone Park
and look down there you can see there
you can see down there all you want you
don't need to take this property to do
it I do think the property should be
managed and the need holes
the manholes are important and if
there's going to be an explosion it's
going to be at those mantles
and I do want that fixed I want I don't
I live there I mean I want my uh public
health is as important to me as anybody
else but you've got visual access
already you do not need to take that
life away thank you so much and I do
appreciate you
they're additionally six online comment
cards received all a post item 17.
thank you vice mayor I'd like to invite
the staff back up for any comments that
you might like to made on what you might
like to
I'll spit it out comments you might like
to make based on what you heard and for
questions from the council I believe
that councilmember Anderson has a
question Judy that you can relay to us
the ones that were online were just
opposed they didn't have actual comments
to them it's just a number of people
that commented that vice mayor shared
um Judy do you have council member
Anderson's question
yes thank you mayor
um this is for Jessica or David he says
please describe the structural Integrity
analysis that is currently happening
within the corridor
and then as a follow-up when will it be
done and would it likely change your
recommendation and I can repeat that if
needed
do you mind repeating that again Judy
thank you absolutely
please describe the structural Integrity
analysis
that is currently happening within the
corridor
and then when will that be done and
would it likely change your
recommendation thank you the the
structural Integrity analysis the visual
that you saw the um of the televising of
that sewer where you could see the
lining of it that was peeling away at
the joint and the bubble that was
forming in a place where the liner was
still intact but the corrosion was
happening behind it those are things you
the analysis has done on that is a is a
visual analysis we know the pipe is in
an active failure mode what we don't
know is the full extent of it during the
rehabilitation is when we actually will
discover that as that pipe is cleaned
out and prepared and we'll probably find
places that we have to actually dig it
up and replace the pipe because it's
lost enough structural Integrity this in
the sewer systems like this we really
don't have an option because there's
nowhere to it has to flow down here the
bypass pumping that has to go in there
and what that operation looks like is
extremely large uh and it has to be it
has to be put in place before we can
take it out of service to do that
oh thank you on the water line is a
totally different situation that's one
where that Corridor runs for about eight
or nine miles and the transmission main
starts out at 48 inches diameter in this
area it's at 24 inches in diameter as
you get towards the West part of town it
gets down to about 16 inches in diameter
and through that Corridor we have gone
over the past year or so and we've been
getting in taking that pipe out of
service during the winter months when
the water demands are low enough that we
can take it out of service and still
keep everybody in water
and doing inspections through there
there have been two different inspection
modes that have happened one is sending
a ball through their electromagnetic
it's looking you'll send it through when
the pipe is full of water again and it's
looking and looking for electromagnetic
uh discrepancies that it will find and
sounds that it will hear because you'll
get sounds that happen out of a water
system where there's a leak and then the
other part was running in when it's dry
and dewatered running that
electromagnetic magnetic robot through
it and that robot is the one that
discovered and that middle image on that
one slide and it showed where the the
steel the steel Bars were broken and the
steel cylinder that's inside that's got
concrete on the inside and on the
outside of it that steel cylinder was
deteriorated away when that pipe would
have gone back into service and was
energized again it would have likely
failed and we would have had a break
right there and that one would have been
just a right there by the park
um just west of these properties
but we thank heavens we were able to
find that one in repair before we went
back into service
other questions for staff at this time
Judy did I answer all of that question I
apologize because I
think the only part you might have
missed was based on the structural
analysis that you've done so far would
your would your opinion have changed in
any way to the option that you're
recommending no thank you for that
question I think I got that right
verification yes this is a very
difficult situation
um the infrastructure is critical the
entire Community depends on it there are
between the water the sewer and the
reclaimed water in the areas that those
three different facilities serve that
image that I showed where it covered so
much of the Town each of those are
working and all of that and they all are
in close contact with one another when
we had a situation where there was a
break in a sewer line and the sinkhole
was forming it was underneath that water
transmission main we had to take the
water transmission main out of service
to be able to correct and fix the the
the break in that sewer Main
they're so in so such close proximity to
one another then when one goes out of
service we will likely lose the other I
think and the gravity when we just can't
turn it off there's no way it's just
gonna run period and it's gonna either
go through a pipe or it's going to find
a way out a man at manholes and we'll
have uh raw sewage to deal with thank
you David
may be based off anything you heard from
the from the public
council members September
thank you mayor
David
um
can you articulate the the difference
between the this infrastructure that's
underneath the storage
um the self storage parking lot versus
the same infrastructure that runs in the
backyards of these homes because I feel
like we're I feel like we're treating
are we treating him differently like
what why why are we not taking the
storage unit uh to to to get underneath
there I'm just wondering what what's the
difference from from your perspective
thank you madam mayor councilmember
September they the rehabilitation method
right now this project is going to
rehabilitate the 36-inch Interceptor
sewer the rehabilitation method that
we're going to use is to go into and
repair by basically creating a new pipe
inside the old pipe you have to pump all
the Wastewater around to do that the
access points we have a large train
probably about 400 feet in length we'll
set up on both sides of the manhole for
a width because of the equipment that
they have to bring out that there's a
manhole that is east of that facility
that they'll be able to set up over that
manhole there's a manhole in Gilbert
Road that's on the west side of that
facility there is no manhole inside that
facility if there were a manhole inside
that facility it would too would have
been included
um in the in this from a property
perspective so folks folks we're not
going to do what they did during the
ranch
no no we are not going to do the the
shouting out that we did during the
ranch so David the um sir we are not
going to take these comments
if you can't sit and be quiet and let us
finish this process
we need to be able to get through this
business meeting so David so that's
that's with respect to the repairs so
they have a manhole on either side of
that property you don't have to get
involved in that property at all to to
to do the the re-pipe in place or
whatever whatever it's repair and place
piping from a failure perspective
is there a greater risk
in your opinion for a failure
for this infrastructure that's in the
yards versus that's in the parking lot I
mean I know we've talked a lot about the
the idea of a failure right it's not if
it's when and this infrastructure is
aging but after all of the repairs are
made
what is the difference between a failure
in the storage unit parking lot and a
failure in a backyard
uh Council mayor council member
September that is a
it's a difficult question I'm not really
sure how to answer that because that
failure is going to be the same
and the the storage unit and the storage
complex the town has access to that
there's Gates that led us in and out of
that facility to be able to get in and
address a failure the situation in The
Yards as they exist today we're not able
to come in from the back with the type
of equipment that would be needed the
size of the construction activity and
for it to occur we're going to be taking
down the majority of the walls they're
going to have to be re-established in a
location we're going to have significant
impact on every one of these properties
to do the rehabilitation we're going to
be going into that entire easement area
utilizing it and then some the actual
work activity is going to be north of
that Eastman area and what we would be
acquiring is a temporary construction
easement in addition to the easement
area so it's a gigantic impact on these
properties and there's really no way to
avoid it
thank you uh David so yeah there's no
way to avoid the the construction impact
that's going to take place but that
happens whether or not no matter what
option we choose tonight that impact is
going to happen after the repairs are
made to all of this infrastructure and
it's critical infrastructure I think
staff has done a good job of of
articulating why it's critical
um
how often do
how often do we does the town need to
access that infrastructure for
inspections for repairs or any other
reasons that you might need to access
the infrastructure through the manholes
how often does that need to happen thank
you mayor councilmember September staff
accesses all of the man all of the sewer
system within the town nearly 800 miles
or so of it of that inventory and we're
running camera through it
about once every five years or six years
on pla areas that are more critical it
would happen more frequently or areas
that more problems would show up it
happens more frequently but every pipe
in the town is going to have a camera go
through it every six years on that sewer
system the manholes are inspected more
frequently what we've been finding is
that the manholes they're coated with
things that are supposed to withstand
the corrosive environment but we find
that they fail and so there's multiple
different techniques that have been
deployed over the decades the town has
been in the Wastewater business
and we've yet to find one that's perfect
there just aren't any and the manhole
mantles get deteriorated right now what
they're going to doing is lining those
manholes they're actually Excavating
taking the top off of them and putting
in a new liner that's hopefully going to
be a little bit more resistant than
those that have been those ones that are
chemically inert they're supposed to be
able to withstand the gases that
we still find failing
thank you David if there's a if there is
a failure
in the future after the repairs are made
what's the difference between a failure
in someone's backyard and the failure if
if the fences were if the you know if
the easement was perfected and the
fences were moved to the north what's
the difference in that failure what does
that look like a failure in somebody's
backyard versus a failure that would be
out in that open area where people walk
mayor members of council council member
September I think the biggest difference
between a failure in someone's backyard
in a failure in a visible area is the
time to detect and the time to be able
to respond to that failure in a
situation where it's an irrigated
property there could be a leak or
something occurring over a longer period
of time where if it was in a public
visible place we would be able to see it
and detect it and respond to it and
repair it more quickly than if it
happened in the backyard and there is
especially when it comes to the Sewer
the sewer side of things because it's
not under pressure the wall can provide
a bit of a barrier to that to that
property so that unfortunately it only
goes south which is in a great situation
either but it would prevent inundation
of properties with raw sewage in a very
short period of time
thank you Jessica so Jessica you said
the the great the grade flows South
for those properties
no I only meant that if there's a wall
preventing it from going towards the
property it's going to go
the other door the other way towards the
homes
towards the canal mayor council at one
point to emphasized with visibility and
how critical that visibility is time is
absolutely of the essence with these
three utility lines that we have being
able to detect early and then get in
there and problem solve is critical when
we experience that water line failure
last summer that we lost a considerable
amount of water while we wasted time
trying to get a hold of the property to
be able to property owner to be able to
access the property and as we all know
that's an incredibly precious resource
and we can't waste that time with sewer
and Ken snow can correct me but I think
the volume of sewer sewage that is going
through that sewer line if there was a
rupture could fill a swimming pool
within three minutes
within three minutes so this time very
much is of the essence with these lines
councilmember Hendricks got a question
in looking at the I'm just looking at
this chart that shows 10 options and
I've I've probably seen this
presentation five times so I'm pretty
familiar with the presentation
and I know there's a couple of tables in
there where you've got the red x's and
the green checks and the green checks
means this is better for this column and
some of the columns either accessibility
or ease of access various things there
probably could be a hundred columns and
lots of green checks and red X's but we
had I don't know 10 whatever you price
the 10 most important things uh that you
thought we should base a valuation on
I'm assuming and from that we came up
with 10 feasible options and the table
I'm looking at here it's the one that
shows the cost of each one
and it shows one column as option and
the next one is cost
and so when I'm looking at option I want
to be sure what I understand is all 10
of these are viable options all 10 of
them will solve the problem
but the biggest difference is some of
them are easier some create less
challenge for the town some create
but all 10 of them work if we picked any
one of these it solves the problem
mayor councilmember Hendricks on the on
10 options that I think that goes back a
little bit farther we approached the
software project hoping to be able to
come down into the land that the Sarver
project can manages on behalf of the
Bureau of Reclamation and we tried
multiple times and it was a definitive
no that would not be allowed no I think
that's options 11 through 14 if I'm not
mistaken
I'm just looking at the way it shows one
through ten I don't think I'm gonna
phone A friend just to make sure
yeah that's I apologize so that would be
options one through five which options
are actually aside from whether it's
easier harder how many options do we
have that would solve the problem
thank you there are five options that
were shown in that viewer that and that
website we showed that we made available
to the residents and trying to answer
questions and of those five options
there are four of them that are have
differences in what is going to happen
every one of them that there's going to
be an impact during construction we're
going to have to take down walls we're
going to go into into the and just do
work because we have to clear the
easement that has to happen which one
solved the problem the one the only one
that solved all of those different
failure modes that exist for all of
those facilities that are in there and
provided the best benefit and value to
the town was option number one and it
was the one that does require that easy
don't provide best benefit or no benefit
at all excuse me so let's say ones that
provide no benefit to the town and the
most difficult and the most expensive
how many are there that solve the
problem maybe not the best solution but
how many solve the problem
thank you mayor mayor Peterson
councilmember Hendricks each of those
that were presented by the engineering
team that performed them felt that each
of those could could address and solve
the challenge that exists within that
sewer who pipe that's there to put it
back into service in a
um and prepared hopefully for another 20
or 30 plus years of service
and then there are attendant
risks that come with each of those as
well the only option that takes care of
providing
the town the ability to be able to
respond much more quickly much more
appropriately in any of those different
scenarios that exist because of all of
the different utilities that are here is
option number one it unfortunately has
the largest impact to these property
owners and uh
and is one that's it's not a it wasn't
easy to to deliver having seen sinkholes
happen with sewer systems having it in a
backyard is not a desirable thing to
occur so so they're all solutions some
are just better Solutions in your
opinion yes thank you I mean everybody
here's got an opinion I mean your
opinion my opinion it's just seven of us
vote but so I guess what I'm trying to
get at is if we're going to limit to
only the ones that
would solve the problem some better than
others maybe it's one through four
I'm I'm sorry please again
I guess I'm trying to figure out which
ones actually solve the problem some
some solve it in a way that it's more
difficult to get to it later or to
maintain it later but I think they all
solve the basic problem the option
number one is the only option that cures
all of the vulnerabilities that exists
there in the current current
configuration I guess by vulnerabilities
you need to be more difficult to access
it would take more effort on the town's
part
so the other would solve it it would
just maybe have a little bit more effort
down the road or when we talk about 300
gallons or 3 000 gallons whatever 10
swimming pools a football field whatever
else
they all solve the problem as far as the
being able to maintain it we shouldn't
have the kind of problems we're talking
about it just may be a little bit less
convenient well if we're looking at
mayor Peterson councilmember Hendricks
if we're looking at just the sewer pipe
itself and the rehabilitation of it then
each of those do the the reclaimed water
line is a asbestos cement pipe if you
remember Gilbert days in 2016 I think it
was is when an asbestos cement pipeline
I remember burst and flooded under the
railroad tracks that material is one
that has to be replaced it's in the
program to be replaced within the next
several years we're going to be back
again taking down walls digging up a
pipe in a backyard if we put go back to
that configuration this isn't this is a
very grave and just heavy decision but
because there are so many facilities and
each one of them are going through their
life cycles and each one of them are
having failures occur on now and some of
those failures are very significant and
there are things that will happen
by
by bringing those utilities out of those
backyards we will no longer have to go
and impact those residents in the same
drastic way that this project will
okay
councilmember Anderson has another
comment um Judy
yes thank you mayor this is just a
statement from council member Anderson
for the Neighbors I want to commend you
all that you have found options that you
all agree could work for you
there was a comment that the four owners
would provide continual access to
manholes through restrictions
I appreciate that for the immediate
future it might work however the plot
that created your subdivision restricted
what could be in an easement many years
ago and look what has happened
thank you thanks Judy another
questions for the staff and then I can
go ahead and close the public hearing
and bring it back to the dice I have one
more question mayor okay council member
September David
we'll be we'll be making improvements
and repairs to all of the infrastructure
at one time is that correct
thank you mayor Peterson councilmember
September we're going to be making the
repairs to the Wastewater line right now
the reclaimed water line is going to but
is going to be happening in a few years
the water line is going is being further
analyzed right now and we're waiting for
results back they deployed that robot
through the last pieces that they hadn't
been able to last year and that one is
one that what we don't know is is it
going to be something that happens in
the next couple of years or is it going
to be something that happens in the next
you know five or six or seven years but
we're going to be back in there on every
single one of those in the in the near
term can you please remind me why we why
we're not making all the repairs at one
time
that that's a great question because
it's a very large budget impact to do
all those repairs that uh is not
something that's in the program right
now did you have a
oh Jason I'm a phoning your friend
councilmember September I apologize
if I could mayor councilmember September
so regarding the reclaimed water line
it's really contingent on which option
ultimately is selected here if we
proceed with option one there's the
ability and the flexibility to do it
down the road when budget allows if we
go with something other than option one
we'd likely try to combine construction
effort if the budget allows for that
repair to be completed at that time just
to minimize the disturbance to the
neighborhood
so we would have to Pivot depending on
which option we go with to really plan
for that reclaimed water line
Improvement does that answer your
question
it does so the
um the thing that we're going to the the
infrastructure we're going to repair
right now is the gravity-fed sewer with
the manholes that are deteriorating then
the other two lines will be done later
at least that's the idea at the moment
when those two lines are done we're no
matter where the fence is whatever
decision outcome is tonight
are those do those pieces of Industry
infrastructure have to be dug up and
replaced or are we going to line in
place those other those other lines
for September that's a great question
right now that Technologies to try to
line those in place are things that are
it's a developing industry with a
transite pipe we would want to dig that
up and replace it most likely with the
water transmission main given that
nature and the performance of that type
of material over the years it would
likely be a dig lay and replace as well
if we were to make all the repairs and
Replacements at one time what is the
life cycle of that of that
infrastructure after all those repairs
are made thank you council member mayor
Peterson councilmember September the
life cycle for these the and this is one
where I'm I'm apologize but it's going
to sound it's going to sound
disrespectful the pipeline that went in
for the sewer has a life cycle of 100
years according to the manufacturers and
the and the Fabricators who can who
provide that and when it was installed
it's 36 years in the future and it's not
we don't know this this technology that
we're looking at deploying one of them
has been around longer than the other
both of them have life cycles they've
been in service for 20 in some areas
going in close to 30 years now it's
we're just now starting to get into the
industry data on what that's going to
look like long term there are so many
factors that go come into play when it
comes to rehabilitating pipes in place
Wastewater pipes in place there are many
ways that it can that challenges can
arise IT projects or promises a life
cycle that's long and and storied
history has shown us that that just
really doesn't tend to prove out in that
Wastewater environment thank you David
any other questions for the staff
while they're down here
I have a question regarding the
right-of-way acquisition and that the
right-of-way acquisition and can I get
some clarity on the appraisal value is
that the actual reduction in the
property value or does is there
information that can be provided around
that
mayor Peterson councilmember koprowski
this is a really complicated one and a
complex one that gets into the
appraisals are prepared by independent
independent appraisers the town doesn't
employ any appraisers we go to the
market and have them prepare those for
us when you look at any land some of the
things that we we learn over time is
that if there are existing easements on
land then that has a diminution of the
value that that land has because there's
an encumbrance that rides upon that land
the the the estimates that were put
together were looked at and prepared
based upon some an anticipated
diminution because there is existing
easement there I would point out that
the town has an easement for the water
and most of this Corridor for the
Wastewater and the reclaimed water that
our rights are junior to Salt River
Project Salt River Project has senior
rights for the transmission facilities
that they have there for that
two-circuit of 230 kilovolt or 230 000
volt in that one circuit of 500 000 volt
electrical transmission lines through
this quarter so we're the junior utility
in there SRP is the senior utility
all of those encumbrances do reduce a
value to the land but those are things
that an appraiser gets done and that all
gets prepared and presented and shown
and shared an open book with the
property owners the improvements that
are there other things that come into
play and how do those replacing those
putting things back curing it's a pretty
complex process that we look to and have
some experts that will come in for to
help with that and to help the property
owners as we go through that process
thank you
any other questions for the team one
last one mayor you said that last time
um
so David in in the idea of fixing all of
the infrastructure at one time
um so for those two water lines if we
were to fix everything on one time
what's the what's the additional cost to
include those other two water lines in
in a one-time repair is it like order of
magnitude is it 5 million is it 10
million is it 20 million and I apologize
if we've talked about this already this
has been going on for some time and you
you have worked very hard on this all of
you have so I I'm sorry if I have not
committed that to memory but what is
what is the delta in cost thank you
mayor Peterson councilmer September I'm
going to phone a friend here to make
sure because I don't want to be wrong I
saw Jason counting in his head he was
thank you mayor Peterson councilmember
September the reclaimed water line the
estimate right now is five million
dollars for that one for the potable
water line we don't have an estimate
that's in process right now as they
finish that analysis and deliver it that
would be something that we've provided
within I think in a couple of months is
when those results will be delivered
thank you thank you mayor
when those results come in the team will
work to formalize the best approach to
solving for the water line as the
council knows we have a tremendous
amount of infrastructure needs
throughout the community and especially
in the realm of water and wastewater and
so it'll be a part of the CIP
development process and going through
the budget process and the
prioritization process that will be
coming up to Council in the in the next
six months
thank you
last call any other questions
thank you team feel free to sit down
appreciate the work you've done
I will go ahead and close the public
hearing and bring it back to the diocese
for discussion
oh I got a lot I want to say about this
and I know it's already late so
um hopefully I'm clear-headed enough to
deliver this in in a way that at least
after I've
spent hours deliberating my own mind uh
comes out the right way because
um
I first just want to say I
I really do appreciate the the time and
the effort and the very careful
deliberation the information that's been
provided by the team especially in
public works I I don't believe that
these people are trying to mislead
anybody I don't believe this is a land
grab I don't believe that there is an
ill intention I really do believe that
you are providing what is your opinion
as professionals and technicians that
you think that this is the best way to
proceed as a policy so that you guys can
do operationally what you're expected to
do what you're obligated to do and what
you're responsible to provide
for the community and
this has been a really difficult one and
I I won't speak for my colleagues but I
ventured to say that this one's maybe
maybe the toughest one certainly for me
but that we've dealt with as a council
the last couple years
um
and
I think you've provided a compelling
totality of of of reasons and data as to
why
um you're providing option one is what
you believe is the best and so I I do
appreciate where you're coming from and
this has been something that I I you
know very much grappled with and um had
even arrived in a couple weeks ago
thinking that yeah this is probably
something we're gonna have to do
um
and then as I let some of this and it
just didn't quite settle so I I knew I
had to cross reference some of my own uh
maybe conclusions on what was the best
course of action so I decided to reach
out to a couple uh people that I thought
would be provide some good counsel not
because I don't trust the you know the
information you're giving but because I
need multiple points of reference and so
one of those was somebody but you know
who worked in public works has that
technical background and I wanted a full
you know kind of outside analysis of
somebody who hadn't been involved on the
on the you know front lines of it and
had kind of an investment in that and
then
um one from a great mentor of mine who
has a an entirely different perspective
when it comes to you know property
rights and I want to make sure that
we're marrying the technical information
with what I believe is the appropriate
and the moral philosophic machinations
of how we put we pair these these things
together I remember what I'm talking
about is that the technical aspect with
the the Phyllis
because that's the job of the policy
makers so I I do think that you're
giving us good information from the
vantage point and your guyses why
um
your why is valid but it isn't it isn't
my why
um and that's that's where I'm going to
deviate from what I've even thought was
going to be the best option
um
because there's a couple couple points
that I think are the Crux of all of this
and
um
you know there's really Five Points when
it comes to how you evaluate
an eminent domain
action and whether this is applied or
is the framework that we have in place
now from a legal standpoint
um
is is pro is irrelevant because quite
frankly
um there's been a huge degradation over
the last 100 years when it comes to
um
the foundation the foundation of
property rights in our country and so
this this is kind of the Crux of it you
know it has to be a compelling State
interest
um I think you've laid out a very good
reason why this is a compelling State
interest
um
it has to be narrowly tailored so I
think you've identified where you think
the 24 properties that you know this
would apply to okay so that's a check
um
it has to be the least restrictive
means to furthering that government
purpose this is where I this is where it
falls apart for me
um because there are other options that
have been presented that we have
accepted as an organization are
feasible that we can do whether they're
optimal optimal or not
um
I think that that that uh
that go that kind of goes against this
this system and then the other is you
know there there can't be any other
alternative
while the other alternatives are not
ideal
and I'll say this from the neighbor's
standpoint if I was in your position
I I probably wouldn't make the same
decision but because we have asked you
whether
given the whole scope of the disruption
that is going to occur everybody's
agreed there's 100 consensus there's
going to be it's you
put whatever scale you want on it but
major disruption to the livability of
your backyard and you're still willing
to undergo that
is another alternative
and I think we can solve the points of
making sure that that there's there's
multiple options when it comes to kind
of surveillance of of that area so
whether that's
you know see-through fencing and drones
and there's been a lot of you know a a
consistent schedule that gets agreed
upon where you know we're able to give
complete and full access
um there there are a lot of Alternatives
there and so
even though it's it is not operationally
the best option
when it comes to
what I think is is not just a
economic right but a a fundamental one
in our and our founding fathers believe
the same thing
um I've pulled up a couple quotes
because it might seem esoteric but it's
not when you think about you know the
200 years of how how we've gotten to
where we are
um
the encroachment of this awesome power
that government has and quite frankly
the bastardization of it and so I pulled
the James Madison quote because I
actually
I think this is quite elegant
um government is instituted no less for
the protection of the property than of
the persons of individuals meaning that
that's the end goal that's that's the
back end of this that is the why
government exists is to protect property
rights and there's a reason our
forefathers saw
no distinction between those individual
liberties and property rights
um
so I I do think that option three is
probably the best
compromise because
we can well actually that line of
questioning councilman September was was
like a lot of what I was thinking but he
took it way further and it was it was
really excellent but I think it kind of
laid out
um
the culmination of this so
I've really struggled and grappled with
this one because I I do not want to put
tens of thousands of our residents at
risk that can't be mitigated
who rely on these Services we have an
obligation to deliver those
and I think our team is that excellent
and that professional and that good at
what you do because you did take a lot
of time to think of all the ways that we
couldn't get around this that even
though it puts a strain on our team I I
think you guys are up to the task I
think you're capable of doing it
um
and if I was the neighbors I would
probably have sold my property I
probably would not have wanted to
subject myself because we're going to
have to clear that easement that can't
go on uh I guess you could call
unperfected but the Integrity of it
needs to be restored there's been
culpability on both sides it's the
degradation of that so we can all kind
of own that and move forward in a new
normal but that that has to be cleared
in my opinion because no matter where A
disruption goes along that line we can't
be
we can't be dealing with permanent
structures on it there's a reason why
that utility existed and there was there
was a wisdom to it and if we maintain
that and it's going to take everybody to
do that
um then we can make this work even
though it's it's not it's not perfect
and I will say the Public Works
individual I spoke to
um I'm sorry this is so long-winded it's
I'm so sorry
um he did say that he thought the option
one would be best if there was frequent
frequent if they were going in there all
the time if we had to go and do physical
work
very frequently now everybody can Define
that differently but it fits you know
every five years or every 20 years I I
don't think that justifies it especially
since we have been provided with
Alternatives and and least restrictive
um
Alternatives so I'm looking I you know
hope to hear from my other colleagues
and what you're thinking but
um
I just
this is one of those ones if you don't
make the right decision it haunts you so
um for got to take all the totality of
it and to to consideration and
um
it's just a couple of my thoughts
councilmember Kapowski
this is a really great need for our town
and this is our absolute responsibility
it's our responsibility whether it's
behind their wall or whether it's
outside of their wall
acquiring private property is not a
situation that we want to be in and
thankfully I think we have some
information that it's not occurring all
around town but we are absolutely
responsible for this service and these
infrastructure assets you mentioned the
potential for the manhole option which
would require all three projects to be
done at the same time to minimize
impacts
which might have a cost savings but also
have that fiscal impact all in the same
few years for the Capital Improvements
then there's still a risk in terms of
we're punting this down the road and
yeah we're punting it probably at least
30 years 20 years 30 years but we're
still just punting it and this situation
is going to come up again
and when something fails in that line
and you have that many million millions
of gallons of sewer of sewage going
through that pipe in such a short amount
of time
um
that
it's going to have a really big impact
on those properties if it's behind those
walls and the detection is going to be
really critical and having a you know
the drones and things like the the
detection isn't something that can be
surveyed or like have surveillance 24 7
because that's what it needs
but the fact that it's outside the wall
or in a public area it gets eyes on it
because of the people that are walking
along the trail or things like that from
the smell mainly
um coming so I know this is so difficult
and we don't want to impact these
residents
but the choice that we have to make
is affecting at least 50 000 residents
so it's important
thank you
councilmember tilkey
thank you mayor um
I think where I start with this is that
we have to clear the easement no matter
what option we pick and so that means
any structure is in any fences on that
easement has to be cleared so the I
guess the question comes down to is that
um cost
going to be worn by the residents or by
the town
someone said they would do it themselves
and I don't know if they're speaking for
the entire
Community out there for of the 24 homes
but it's a it's a costly
Endeavor for sure
um so that's where I start
and then from there you have to look at
if you've had to move your your
structures
and your fence because the easement
doesn't allow
the type of fencing that's there now
does the value of that property decrease
or does the usefulness of it decrease
for that that owner and
um so I think that's a question that we
need to to consider as we look at this
um
I'm
you you shared a lot of my thoughts by
its mayor about how how difficult this
is I do think that this is the most
difficult decision we have to make in
perhaps
the louder voices in the in the room
lately it hasn't been about this project
but this is the one that um
is very hard
um I want to Echo that
I know that the
um the staff
we've hired outside Consultants to help
us we didn't go out and do all of that
research ourselves and so the
information that came back was
independent and and acknowledged that
um
so I I think I'm gonna leave it for
there until we finish having
conversations but that really to me is
is a key component no matter what option
this Council decides to choose
councilmember Hendricks
I'll try to keep it under 20 minutes
here
um
as I sit here and I listen to the I
don't know a dozen people spoke here
tonight
the seven of us up here are government
we're the we're essentially the Kings
here
and we've had a dozen people come up
here and politely and respectfully
beg us to not take their property take
what belongs to them
I can't think of a more basic job of an
elected official
than to protect the population from
government
that's what we're talking about we're
talking about these people asking us
please don't come
take what is mine
that's the most basic element of freedom
and liberty that's what this country is
founded on I I abhorred the idea of
taking their properties if I walk to my
car right now and there's some guy twice
as big as me and he says I've decided I
want your car and I say please don't
take it I need a ride home
I I the the weight of this decision I
just I can't imagine supporting the idea
of taking the property when we talk
about Emirate domain this case is a
poster child for Emerald domain this is
what admin domain was created for for
the greater good of the community or of
the population
but you don't use eminent domain as your
first choice as the easiest choice as
the cheapest choice
you don't use Emerald domain to just
benefit government because other choices
are more difficult
and as I see this
all staff members in any staff
presentation they make they're people
just like us so they're going to decide
some decision is better
and then they're going to present their
data how they decide that was better
which indirectly persuades us to believe
that their opinion is correct and it's
better
and sometimes we've seen presentations
that
staff is so convinced that their idea is
correct that they just straight out lie
to convince us that's not what's
happened here I mean I think here we've
had valid
conclusions valid decisions valid
research
but I think there's more than one option
here that will work and I think we
should take the least intrusive
on the property order we should protect
their freedoms and we should protect
them from government
I had a young man here tonight to sit in
the back and he emailed me yesterday
and he came up and he talked to me when
I was walking up earlier when we had the
ranch people here and he walked up and
he politely shook my hand and he said Mr
Hendrix I emailed you he said please
don't take our property
I mean
what should I say to that how do I
answer that that I'm representing
government that wants to take this young
man's property
so I asked him what do you think we
should do
and he articulately explained I think
you should take option four or maybe
option three
and all the presentations I've seen
that's the best one I've seen
so there's no way I'll support option
one I prefer option four I prefer option
three
thank you
I would just highlight that in option
four none of the property owners would
be compensated for the intrusion to
their lives for these projects in option
three only the property owners that have
the manholes would be compensated for
that impact and intrusion and have that
option
so
that's where I lean towards option one
because at least I know that the
property owners will be compensated and
that this project which will run
probably over I mean several months
over a year at least the property owners
will be compensated in some manner for
that impact
um
versus you know years and years of
intrusion
and
moving around
everything on their property
and I would agree with that other than
that's not our value judgment to make so
um
like I said if I was in their position I
might not make the same decision or have
the same opinion about
what what they value I I would I
wouldn't want to live under that
disruption I I understand that you know
that the utilities meant has limited
value because you can't do what you want
on it so but I think that these are this
is information that they understand and
they're still saying wolf
will sacrifice that because having the
property is of greater value
it's just a different way to look at it
Judy you have a comment from council
member Anderson
I do I do thank you mayor and Council
again from council member Anderson
eminent domain should never be used
except in rare cases
infrastructure is in my opinion the one
critical time that it can or should be
used to promote public welfare
our charge is to act in the interest of
the entire town of Gilbert not special
interest groups most people don't see
neighborhoods as special interest groups
but they do act in the interest of their
of the neighborhood and your own
property
the easement needs to be cleared again
how do we guarantee access and a clean
easement many years into the future
ownership is the only sure way but are
we willing to take the short-term
solution in three or four
thank you mayor
thank you Judy council member September
thank you mayor
Chris Payne are we running into a time
crunch a
we can go past midnight
okay I wasn't sure if there was some I
thought I heard once that there was like
a legal requirement that Council had to
end at midnight because we have to
finish the business of the town in one
date I don't think that that's true
okay I've heard that but I don't think
that's accurate okay great thank you
um
I have struggled with this
and I think the town the town staff has
made an excellent argument
for this to be
um
a poster child for imminent domain
but
this the way that I have looked at this
in just in the last few days is
um how can we what's what's the least
intrusive means to accomplish
operational functionality not
necessarily operational Perfection and I
know that this that what I'm about to my
recommendation or what I would support
makes staff's difficult job already
harder but you know the ability to
access maintain and reasonably remedy
failure I I believe could be
accomplished through option number three
um
those are those are my thoughts
and
said that this has been a difficult vote
I wasn't on the council in 2020 when
this vote first came up in November of
2020 I had resigned to run for mayor and
I didn't come in until January of 2021
and so this was really my first I think
encounter was when a bunch of you showed
up to speak during Communications from
citizens
and so we extended this project out now
two years we have had more meetings and
discussions on this one project than
anything I have ever seen in my career
on Planning Commission on Council as
mayor
this one I mentioned that the ranch
keeps me up at night this one keeps me
up at night
there's only a couple things that do
that
Public Safety and my concern for them
all the time cases like this when we're
really going to affect our residents and
how do we best handle those and the
situation like the ranch where
I'm not sure what the best answer is I
have to weigh all the facts
we've we've gone into executive sessions
and had discussions about this endlessly
and
I'm disappointed at the fact that we've
had those discussions and now we're out
here saying a lot of different things
because if I had heard some of these
comments when we were sitting in exact
session we would have had an opportunity
to look at things differently
we would have had an opportunity to
explore other options maybe more
thoroughly we explored everything a lot
but if you get
true feedback from everybody you have
the opportunity to then go over all of
those
pieces to that option and you've heard
you know bits and pieces now from a
couple different members
it's difficult for the staff to work
with it's difficult for us to work with
it's difficult for you as residents to
know where we're coming from when
we're not cohesive
makes it difficult for me to come out
here after I've been up half the night
thinking about this case thinking that I
know where we're going to go and then
have
changes differences differences of
opinion
I wish I had more time to talk about
some of those other options when we were
in executive session because I heard
other things that we discussed because
of feedback that we had heard from
Council
I
have heard things from our legal team
that concerns me to the future of
if we don't do option one what that
looks like for the future of the
community legally
I'm concerned with what I saw on the U.S
60 with the water line break and the
Damage that that caused and the time
that that freeway was down I'm concerned
with not having access to these yards
I'm concerned with the residents animals
in those yards when we need access
immediately I'm concerned with the fact
that we've had leaks that have caused
health hazards that have had to be
reported because we didn't know about
them I'm concerned with some legal
issues that we have come across as we've
been working through this process that
we didn't know about that existed along
these lines
I'm concerned that the residents are
saying that they'll be doing these
things for us but we have no legal way
to hold you to any of that
none
because it's your private property
and that concerns me it concerns me that
we're going to have a major issue
especially knowing what happened to the
line on the 60 which is about the same
age about the same age as the lines that
we have in your backyards it concerns me
what's that going to look like if those
bursts in one of your backyards we've
seen it on Lindsay Road we've seen it in
Freestone Park
that's our property so we can go ahead
and go in and do what we want to it
because it's our property Freestone Park
and Lindsay Road
I'm perplexed still and here we are two
years later
this isn't an easy this is an easy
decision
um
I thought we were coming out here as a
cohesive group with one thought in mind
with the answers that we've been we've
discussed for months and been throwing a
curveball
big staff's been throwing a curveball
council member telkey would you like to
make any more comments you didn't really
you didn't really choose an option
so I'm asking you
thanks mayor I I wanted to hear the
comments from everybody here
um I I agree with your statements we we
had long conversations
and
um
thought we had settled on an option for
sure and
um but that doesn't make it any easier
as we're sitting here today and having
to take a vote on it and
um
you know I I take that very seriously
there's been lots of comments not not
from you all but just from the entire
evening that I do when I make decisions
hard decisions I do look you in the eye
and I know how hard it is and this is
why it's this is so painful for what
we're going through and why we're still
here at midnight quite frankly because
it is important that after two years
of your time
in our efforts and all of the meetings
we've had that we do need to make a
decision
um
so
um
I um I'm trying to figure out where I am
to tell you the truth because I I
I respect
option one for all the reasons that
you've shared with us
um
I I would also like to have an option
for something else but I I'm not my
biggest concern and I've heard this from
Council candidates and others that don't
worry about the future just do what
people want you to do today and just
tell them whatever they want to hear and
and that's not what I believe anybody on
this council is is is willing to do
which makes it even harder for us to
um to make really hard decisions and
um
my my biggest concern is I'm worried
about the future
um
I'm worried that if we go with three or
four that the homeowners are going to
have to invest all this money to make
all those changes to their property
um
without reimbursement and that
we may not have solved the problem and
long term
so I'm still I'm still waiting for
something that's going to push me over
the edge to make the motion so I
apologize if I've let you down there
no thank you yes go ahead don't remember
I'd be
I'd like to make the motion to
approve option one
I have a motion to approve option one do
I have a second
I just want to check with Judy to make
sure that council member Anderson isn't
like typing away before I think humor he
is typing actually thank you
foreign
I don't want to kill emotion unless if
there's potentially going to be a second
to the motion I want to give him a
chance
it's late
he's in another state
type faster council member Anderson
guys it's late I have to keep a little
humor
foreign
Peterson Council he actually has a
question he asked if someone could
describe the features of three and four
again briefly please I had a feeling
that might be a question okay so we have
a motion on the floor that we will hold
and we can ask the team if they can
do you have a chart for that Leah by any
chance
there is some visual
there is a faith pull the presentation
back up we can flip over to the Chart
thank you I figured you had that
I think it was in earlier
so the question was is to elaborate on
some of the key features for options
three and four I think it's best
described by using some visuals that we
have at the end of the PowerPoint here
so this is a rendering from the
interactive viewer that we created as
part of this Corridor analysis you can
see the property on the left side of the
screen is one that contains a manhole
you can see the polygon area where that
wall has been relocated and a gravel
surface is installed there this provides
Town staff access from the town property
south of these residential Parcels to
access that manhole only for maintenance
purposes on the gravity sewer you also
see we have some access to that 18 inch
reclaimed water line but it's obstructed
outside of that polygon area
thank you
one thing to note with option three is
outside of the sewer line it still we
still have those two other utility lines
that remain either obstructed and also
unvis not visible
we know failures can occur at any point
along those those would not occur at the
manhole
here is a visual of option four this
option would install
potentially larger Gates than what
exists on some of these properties some
properties have Gates some do not option
four would install gates to access the
properties that contain manholes
in addition to clearing the easement
like we've said for any of the options
that we would proceed with this would
provide access
for maintenance to those backyards to
the properties with the manholes only
not the properties between the manholes
where where issues could occur on either
of these pipelines that are in the
backyard you see the 24 inch potable
water line there in the blue which is
south of the majority of these Parcels
however there is three Parcels on the
east side where this pipeline does
travel through the residential backyards
whether unobstructed or not they're
still within the private property of
those of those parcels
please
Jason with the polygon can you go back
to that slide please with the polygon I
see that it cuts off some very small
pieces of property that would be very
difficult to get into if there was an
issue with those lines
I guess my thought process was if we
were looking at the difference between
three and four I would probably be
tempted to go with four and not cut this
off but make sure those gates are some
sort of a and the resonance mate like
not like this but make sure that they
are a see-through gate that meets the
requirements of the original easements
that they have
so that we can see into those properties
but it doesn't block you from doing
other things or accessing other pieces
of those lines if you need to I see that
you can get to the manholes and that
makes sense but I think there's still
too much too many issues with what's
around them
I don't know if I'm saying it right so
mayor if I understand your your
statement correctly
the relocation of that southern
perimeter wall you're proposing could
potentially be some type of see-through
or view fence or if we did just the
gates for number option number four make
that gate a see-through gate so that we
still have access that we can see into
the space
and it meets the requirements of the
original easements that they had to have
a see-through
worthwhile removable
correct mayor so the the easement
language was wood wire or removable
fencing
this would only solve that for the
parcels that have the manholes manholes
outside of these partials that contain
manholes we would clear the easement but
the two utilities would remain behind
the obstructions
Andrew Gates
[Music]
well originally all of the easements
were supposed to have see-through Gates
and none of you have those now
mayor council one one potential would be
if the council wanted to convene in an
executive session I think there are some
legal considerations regarding what can
and cannot be dictated with something
like that
that's exactly what I was talking about
the exact sessions and that we've
already done which we we and just so I
can point something out we don't vote in
an exec session ever that's not allowed
by law so this is just general consensus
that we've come to during discussions
that we came back out here tonight
considering
so we have a motion on the floor is it
still on the floor I would I would say
that that motion is probably dead at
this point because we haven't had a
second we're having discussions so let's
um we're probably gonna have to recess
and go into an exec session for a few
minutes I don't want this to be a long
exact session so let's get in there talk
and get out and I know we don't have Jim
here who I know is you know the
professional on this but when it comes
to this topic but I know you're really
good at it Chris
is there support for option three I mean
I've
heard some
there is
anybody want to do an exact session is
that okay I support number three I said
that out loud so but we had him before
three was the one that I was interested
in because it gives staff the ability to
access those manholes unfettered they
can go there they don't have to wait a
lot for someone to lock up their dog to
get a hold of somebody that it gives
them access to the infrastructure that
is so critical to the town that's why I
support three
you started
okay
was that emotion mayor Peterson yes I
apologize councilmember Anderson yes
thank you clarifying question a few
moments ago um he just wanted to confirm
we do clear the easement with any option
correct and then he also just asked what
kinds of things can we do outside
executive session
thank you
and
mayor council and council member
Anderson the easement would need to be
cleared in every option that is without
question
do I have a
it was that emotion that you were making
council member September
if there are no other emotions on the
floor I can make a money I killed the
motion for the okay for a lack of a
second I killed that motion okay I moved
to approve option number three second
I have a motion to approve option number
three with a second motion by council
member September 2nd and by vice mayor
yentez can we please yes I'm sorry but
yes
does that include the gates or is that
the issue that we didn't know if we
could stipulate
do you want to stipulate what I was
talking about with the see-through gate
is that what you're asking for all
property I'm getting a loss I'm getting
lost yeah okay
um because I don't believe that was part
of option three I just want to clarify
what we're yeah I would I would I could
change the motion I'd move to approve
option number three with gates for all
properties
foreign
Council just a point of clarification
and again I would defer to our attorney
but I think there are some legal
considerations in terms of what the town
can or cannot dictate with regard to
materials
notwithstanding a material discrepancy
that there are the double-wide access
gates that a vehicle could access the
property whatever
materials we can use let's
if we can't use it if there's a legal
issue then that's not part of my motion
so the word notwithstanding I second
that
so the motion has been updated with a
stipulation about the gates Chris did
you get that you'll have to record it
watch the recording back probably to get
all of that
um
and the second has been amended
before we vote mayor to have a
discussion executive session about that
stipulation
it's legal advice I'd rather not do it
in public
I think that
nobody wants to go into an executive
session at this point so I am saying
that
you can evaluate that and get back to us
at the next meeting in an executive
session prior to the December 13th
meeting if there's something that we are
not able to do based on that motion is
that allowable
did I
it makes it difficult because if Council
approves a motion it's hard to go back
and undo something or change a
stipulation the motion though is based
on a stipulation of what materials can
possibly be used for the gates that we
based on what is allowed legally
did I capture that I think it captured
that okay so we're not saying to
stipulate anything that wouldn't be
allowed legally that you would discuss
from a legal perspective we're asking
for the gates to put in with legal
legally with
product that will be approved by our
town attorney
mayor and Council respectfully I think
that's the Crux of the issue is that we
can't do that
we're only stipulating if it can be and
using materials that would be legally
allowed so the stipulation would either
not hold I'm not an attorney but I play
one on TV
um sorry the stipulation would either
not hold because it's not legal for us
to dictate something like that or it
would hold using product that would be
legally allowed
if I'm mayor and Council if I'm
understanding correctly that means that
that option would be voted on
potentially without that stipulation
the option with the stipulation worded
just like I did if it's legal and
allowed then we move forward with it
with materials that are allowed by the
town attorney am I not am I but if the
stipulation is not allowed if the
stipulation is not allowed then it goes
away
and I think we're all we're all okay
with that
yes okay
I don't know if I am only because if
that's the stipulation and it's the
compromise that we're trying to achieve
with the neighbors
and we've agreed to it if it's legally
not
allowable then
there's no Gates is it the gate that's
not allowable or the material of the
gate
Chris
that's what I'd like to talk about in
the executive session
the scope of these one
it's going to be a late one
it's already a late one
okay we're going to need to recess into
an executive session let's go recess
into executive session
foreign
foreign
foreign
okay everybody we're gonna call this
meeting back to order
that was a big sigh sorry I don't mean
to sign into the microphone
we had
um a thorough discussion quickly an
exact session thank you for being
patient we have to sometimes do that to
talk about the legal issues and how we
can properly word things that will make
the most sense to everybody that will be
legally binding it protect you protect
the town that's what it's all about
we I have an emotion and a second on the
floor that you're rescinding
okay Motion in the second we're
rescinding I have council member tilkey
that is I think going to an attempt a
motion
thank you mayor and of all nights to
forget my glasses at home this was not
the night but I think I can read my
writing but uh first of all this is a
really late meeting and we have not had
one this late since I can remember for
quite a while and thank you for staying
and giving us the time to work this out
so we could have a decision tonight so
um with that I would like to make a
motion and just for the audience it's
going to be a long motion okay so just
be just be prepared for that but
um
I'd like to make a motion that we adopt
option three
with a deadline to clear all easements
by
including fencing by June 1st 2023
authorizing the town manager to
negotiate with homeowners the um to
provide a see-through fence or gate in
exchange for the town paying for
clearing of the easement
all homeowners May opt into option one
and to sell the easement at any time for
fee so just so you know that's not off
the table if that's that's the option
you would prefer and that
um the negotiations will be in a form of
a written agreement which will be
recorded
and with that that's my motion
second a motion by council member tilkey
very well done
seconded by council member September
please vote
foreign
motion passes six to one
WWE 1060 you are all done
oh oh we don't oh sorry
we have one more follow-up motion
um
this particular motion just provides
authorization and I believe
can you read it yeah
I've been worried about this all night
um but this this is in line with what we
talked about so there's B okay
thanks I didn't want to read it before I
clarified that okay so my second Motion
in regards to this issue is a motion to
authorize the town manager authority to
approve contracts and or contract change
orders up to the amount of 300 000 each
for
contract oh now I'm in trouble
yeah I just can't read numbers very well
three one nine zero zero zero six one
six with Intelis Inc contract
one three two one zero zero zero three
nine three with Archer Western
Construction LLC and contract three two
three zero zero zero one six five with
acquisition Services uh limited for
Professional Services associated with
project w w 1060 contingent upon
selection of a preferred option which is
option three from the Western Canal
Corridor analysis associated with CIP
projects WWE 1060 www
[Music]
1246wa 1546
second promotion by council member
telkey second by council member
September please vote
thank you Scott oh you're back
can we have a fine oh can we have a
final
thanks Judy that passes 7-0 okay ww
1060. now you're done
thank you
thank you I know it's been a long two
years I think we came up with the best
solution for everybody
all right we'll finish the consent
agenda items we pulled 9 and 11
permission to vote separately I will not
elaborate so we'll entertain a motion on
agenda item nine
is there a second second
yeah
thank you Scott
five two I didn't oh did I oh yeah you
voted okay you're agreeing on there
motion passes five two
most uh agenda item 11 is there a motion
so moved second please vote
please vote
[Music]
our property
motion passes five two
thank you we won't belabor this since we
are here after one o'clock in the
morning does anybody have anything for
boards and commissions pardon me mere
Peter oh yes sorry
um also item 19 administrative item oh
yeah administrative I was just going to
get born in sports and commissions
consider appointment of Mark
to the fire and police Public Safety we
had discussed that last time I will I'll
we'll move to approve item 19. second
please vote
oh gosh thanks Scott sorry it's after
one o'clock in the morning I'm calling
you Scott
motion pass is seven zero next item 20
boards commissions and committees any
comments from Council Liaisons hearing
none moving on report from town manager
nothing report from Council
nothing it's one o'clock in the morning
report for mayor I had a lot but I'm
skipping it
no report tonight meeting adjourned