Regular Meeting - 3/7/2023 6:30:00 PM

foreign
team are we about ready to get started
or do you need another okay
Miss Sunshine
anyway we'll go ahead and call to order
the Gilbert Town council meeting for
Tuesday March 7th 2023
I would and ask you all to please turn
off your cell phones or silent that
silence them
council member Torgeson
um and first this evening we will have
our invocation
led by
president Kevin Ballard of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
as president oh there you are good
evening
thanks for joining us this evening
just push the button on the microphone
thank you
our beloved father in Heaven we are
grateful to gather in this goodly land
thankful that this lend allows us to
assemble
as we choose exercise choice and agency
we're thankful for those here in this
meeting and those that assist in the
running of the town of Gilbert
we're grateful for them and pray for
them as they Choose Wisely the direction
we should travel
we ask Father in Heaven that the
proceedings of this meeting will be in
harmony with thy mind and will that
there can be peace understanding and a
good give and take
we're thankful father for the wonderful
citizens of Gilbert and the kind Acts
that are reported on and that go
unreported
but to thee all things are known
we pray for those that are less
fortunate
and may we look Beyond ourselves and
help others where possible
we commend this meeting to thee now in
the name of thy son Jesus Christ amen
thank you president Ballard actually
missed presentation of student of the
month vice mayor are you ready to do
that
yes thank you
sorry thank you mayor I had to get my
step stool so I can touch the ground
back here
um
good evening I'm vice mayor tolki and it
is my pleasure to announce the names of
the Gilbert student citizens of the
month the recipients were nominated by
their teachers and principals for
demonstrating good citizenship and
character
we appreciate the opportunity to not
only recognize these hard-working
students but to also thank all the
teachers and school administrators in
the community we appreciate all your
efforts to educate and influence our
young residents our schools are some of
Gilbert's greatest assets at this time
we're going to begin our students
citizen of the month presentation please
enjoy for those of you who are receiving
an award tonight a certificate in packet
will be delivered to your schools
so we're going to begin with our
elementary schools
Ashland Ranch Elementary Addison krill
Bridges Elementary Kennedy Richardson
Burke Elementary
Declan Floyd
Carol Ray Ranch Elementary
jazlyn carrabbis
Chaparral Elementary Grady gocher
Charlotte Patterson Elementary writer
denim
Christ Greenfield school Weston Lake
edger prize School
Lila
meyerhoffer
I do practice these and then when I see
them I always go what what is it a
Gateway Point Elementary June Bradford
Higley Traditional Academy Ragnar's
story
Islands Elementary Piper Becker
Leading Edge Academy Kaylee
Parker
Mesquite Elementary Maya Menke
Neely Traditional Academy Emmett Waldo
Oak Tree Elementary Christian montemayor
Pioneer Elementary Catherine McAfee
Playa del Rey Elementary Haley long
Power Ranch Elementary Jacob delche
Quartz Hill Elementary Payton doll
Santan Elementary casion
Kennedy
settlers Point Elementary
Everly Frederickson
Town Mills Elementary jet Claussen
Val Vista Lakes Elementary Sophia
Kaufman
Weinberg gifted Academy
say here
non-wall
American Leadership Academy
neodo Hughes
Campo Verde High School
Feliciano Malloy
Canyon Valley High School
Derek beavers Cooley Middle School
Brooklyn Bolts
Gilbert Classical Academy Serena
bottineauger
Gilbert High School Helena Stewart
Greenfield Junior High Russell Scott
Higley High School Emma Frank
Mesquite Junior High Michaela Rodriguez
South Valley Junior High
Maya Sweezy
and that is it yeah
[Applause]
thank you and just a word of
congratulations to all of the students
and I am going to continue to be better
at saying some of those names and it's
so important that we I say them right
and I hope
I got by it so thank you I will tell you
when they're here in person they have no
qualms about telling you if you're wrong
but you haven't had the opportunity to
experience that yet I hope we can bring
them back in person in the fall next up
we will have our Pledge of Allegiance
led by council member Torgeson
now if I could please ask town clerk
Herrera to do the Roll Call
mayor Bridget Peterson here vice mayor
Kathy tilkey here council member Scott
Anderson here council member Chuck
bongiovanni here council member Bobby
Buckley here council member young
Kapowski here and council member Jim
Torgeson a quorum is present
thank you so much chevelli I will now
make my way down to the floor for a
couple of proclamations presentation
first this evening we have a
proclamation for American Red Cross
month and if I could invite Jim galloon
up here to join me
good evening Jim so nice to see you
go ahead and read this Proclamation
whereas caring for one another is an
essential Act of humanity and should
remain at the heart of our community and
the simple acts of kindness by the Red
Cross provide help and hope in people's
most difficult moments while continuing
the legacy of Clara Barton the founder
of the organization more than 140 years
ago to prevent and alleviate human
suffering and whereas 90 percent of the
American Red Cross boots on the ground
are made up of volunteers and whereas
volunteerism and generosity are critical
to a community's resilience and the
American Red Cross efforts in body and
honor Clara Barton's noble words of you
must never so much think as whether you
like it or not you must never think of
anything except the need and how to meet
it and whereas the Red Cross commitment
to lending a helping hand in times of
need and body and honor Clara Barton's
Legacy and mission of compassion and
humanity and whereas during American Red
Cross month we celebrate the
humanitarian and spirit found in Gilbert
Arizona and reinfirm our commitment to
helping ensure no one faces a crisis
alone and whereas the Gilbert water
tower will be illuminated red on the
evening of March 11 2023 in support of
the American Red Cross month and now
therefore I Bridget Peterson mayor of
the town of Gilbert Arizona do hereby
Proclaim March 2023 as American Red
Cross month and I encourage Gilbert
citizens to honor and recognize the
humanitarian efforts of the American Red
Cross who Inspire each of us to engage
in our community State and world with
humility and Humanity in mind would you
like to say a few words Jim yeah just
thank you so much for your support mayor
and the City of Gilbert like you
mentioned about the volunteers ninety
percent of our Workforce are volunteers
they volunteer their time and they
they leave their family to help others
throughout the country and we do have
several volunteers living in Gilbert
here too so give them a big round of
applause for all the help thank you
[Applause]
oh thank you so you can wear that
proudly oh thank you so much let's open
this up it's gonna work she's going to
scoot us over in front of the middle of
the dice
things
thank you and this is free thank you so
much nice to meet you
next up we are recognizing
the participants in the Gilbert feeding
families food drive for 2023. I'm going
to list everybody that participated in
the drive and anyone that's here present
I would love to invite you down here to
join me
Oak Tree Elementary Mesquite High
the Higley Unified School District San
Tan Elementary Power Ranch Elementary
Chaparral Elementary closed cabin
Majestic Gilbert 8 Texas Roadhouse
buenos Pizza Lou Malnati's pizza evident
Life Church Living Word Bible Church
Saint Anne Roman Catholic Church in
Gilbert stake Church of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Chandler East stake Gateway steak green
filled steak Highland East stake
Highland West Stake Santan steak Stapley
steak Val Vista steak I see a pattern
here First United Methodist partnered
with Resurrection Episcopal Higley steak
Redemption Church Seville stake Spirit
of Joy partnered with Williams Field
stake Sun Valley Christian Church
Superstition Springs stake
and our coordinators if they're here
Rachel Hickson Fran Lauder and Amy
Keller
and a big shout out to Becca Gilbert and
Melissa Nelson I'm still not used to
saying Nelson from the United Food Bank
can we please give them all a huge round
of applause
[Applause]
for everybody but there's no way okay
and do we have a total for our
community-wide food bank
we do have a total we had 29 drop-off
donation sites we had 30
537 pounds of food twenty thousand four
hundred and twenty four dollars in cash
donations collected this provides
127
568 meals to those in need
big round of applause
we have certificates for all of you and
we're going to pass those out at the end
but we would love to get a big group
photo with everybody oh that's
somebody's phone
oh no run
sounds like a fire alarm we're not on
fire I promise okay we're gonna need to
do like a couple of lines and merge
together everybody shorter people in the
front I get that because I'm short yep
people out that day when I was driving
around it was so nice to run into the
volunteers
our food banks are really low at the
moment so that was very helpful to be
able to provide food for those in need
at this point in time and I was really
Blown Away by the um by the dollar
number of contributions that were made
for and not just food that was donated
so that's just amazing and I thank
everybody for taking time out and for
opening their hearts to be able to
donate to this great cause that we do
every single year so be watching for
another Drive about a year from now it
is an annual event here in Gilbert
next up on our agenda
we have our Communications from citizens
um vice mayor
okay
um thank you mayor um I've asked
permission if I could give my Council
update early in the evening just so
everybody will still be tuning in to
hear that
um we held our first town hall
from our Communications subcommittee
today and I just wanted to remind
everybody that council member Bon Jovani
will be hosting a town hall here at in
town hall tomorrow at 6 pm and council
member koprowski will be hosting her
Town Hall down at Power Ranch on
Saturday at 9 30. so we've spread it out
hopefully to where if you'd like to come
and talk to us about Communications and
how we can communicate with you better
these are open to the public and just
wanted to remind everybody so thanks for
allowing me to get on early in the in
the evening
um
with that we'll move on to
Communications from citizens
and I'll just read a statement about
protocol for receiving Communications
from citizens the Gilbert Town Council
values citizen comments and input anyone
wishing to speak before the council must
fill out a request to speak card for
each item they wish to speak on and
submit it prior to the beginning of the
meeting
the communications from citizens portion
on the agenda provide citizens an
opportunity to identify for the Town
Council matters of Interest or concern
related to town government that are not
on the printed agenda under the
provisions of the Arizona open meeting
law the Town Council is prohibited from
responding to issues that have not been
properly noticed therefore the Town
Council may only listen to citizens who
wish to address them on non-agenda items
at the conclusion of the open call to
public response is limited to individual
members of the council responding to
criticism made by those who have
addressed the public body asking staff
to review a matter or asking that a
matter be put on a future agenda when
your name is called please come forward
to the podium state your name and place
of residence and then begin speaking all
speakers are expected to observe common
standards of decorum and courtesy
personal attacks political speeches or
threats of political action are
inappropriate in this forum and will be
grounds for ending a speaker's time at
the podium so I well you'll have three
minutes and you'll see the the clock
that will be on the monitor in front of
you and so if you'll just come forward
and state your name and place a
residence and we will start with James
DeBerry
and followed by Jennifer Turner
James oh there you are
James you need to push the button on the
mic
and it'll light up there you go there we
go thank you good okay hi my name is uh
James bavari I'm here again as a
concerned father I would like to start
off by saying thank you to Jim torgenson
and Chuck Bon Giovanni for hearing us
I've spoken a couple times with other
neighbors about a behavioral home in our
neighborhood that we believe is an
unethical business opportunity for
somebody to take advantage of us so
these two gentlemen they've spoken with
us they've heard us and they're trying
to help us solve the problem so my
neighbor Casey will discuss a little bit
more in detail where we are since we
last spoke in November but I'm asking
more of the council to come to the table
and talk to us
we were told in November that I forget
the terminology but there was I believe
going to be a special session or study
conducted to help create safe
neighborhoods form from this type of
issue so we're here to ask for
additional leadership to step up and
come to the table and have the
conversations with us so we can grow as
a community and not just through
unethical business people taking
advantage of our children's playgrounds
so again it's a massive issue it has not
stopped and it needs to stop so we're
asking for your support so please come
to the table and have the conversation
with us before there's going to be
something drastic that happens to
somebody in the community
Casey will discuss again the police
reports it's it's not good so closing
your eyes is not going to work so please
come and talk to us thank you
thank you James next is Jennifer Turner
and following Jennifer will be Casey
Kendall
is that it okay hi I'm Jennifer Turner I
live in a county Island in Gilbert and I
am here to talk about st0990 but not
item nine I'm not here to talk about the
budget I'm here to talk about the design
uh
I'm here actually to speak uh on behalf
of the Ocotillo residents sto 990 for
those that may not know is the widening
of
Ocotillo between 148th and Greenfield
there are a lot of concerns citizens
there a lot of concerns residents I'm
also here to represent Terry Natty who
could not be here today she's usually
here she just could not be here tonight
and asked for representation
so I do live in the neighborhood there
um Terry actually had dropped off a
packet on February 21st
here to town hall for each of the
council members
council members
and in that is a packet which looks
intimidating but it's not it's merely a
response to a 58-page slide show that
was presented to the council so each
page is just a slide and comments
thereof or maybe two slides and comments
thereof so it looks a little big and
clunky but it's not it's a quick read
she's hoping that you did get it and
that you did have a chance to read it
and read through the information there
the concern is that staff has provided
information that is inaccurate it's been
fact checked it's fact checked here by
the neighborhood and by Terry herself we
all come together on this the design
originally was for 50 foot then 55 foot
then 60 foot
then 65 foot
um
and therefore because the design has
changed over time we feel that it could
change to something more efficient more
cost effective we're not saying don't
widen Ocotillo we're merely saying
listen to us and the residents there of
what we would like to have
in my very fast time
running from me I'd like to talk about
PR safety and crime and heart
there is some bad PR for Gilbert for the
town and for the staff the vocal level
item that's an AZ family for those that
don't know it it's out there take a look
at it it's a bad PR
good PR would be listening to this
neighborhood and hearing what they have
to say safety and crime the added
traffic does add crime it does
it does add crime there is also a shared
Trail there meant for horses and I'm an
experienced horse rider of many decades
and I wouldn't ride my safest horse
next to a five-lane highway basically
uh Hearts my nine minutes left
Gilbert had heart
Gilbert has heart
Gilbert could use heart here and get
good PR
oud
thank you Jennifer next up is Casey
Kendall
good evening staff Council mayor
in November of 2020
my neighbors and I introduced a
Recovery House to the last Council
that's causing absolute chaos in our
neighborhood
at that time we shared details of two
different sex offenders being shuffled
between two different properties with
the same business owner along numerous
incidents
and police reports involving aggravated
assault threats of suicide warrants
being served a mutual combat knife fight
gang-related graffiti and complete
destruction of our community park with
the removal of bushes and shrubs so that
patients can no longer hide drugs and
alcohol
all of this happening directly next to
our community park with two Gilbert
Public School stops that have been moved
after we notified them
since the introduction in November these
incidents have not stopped or even
slowed
with an average of five five police
interactions a month or roughly one a
week these include criminal damage
Animal Welfare with a dog being locked
in a car all day
and indecent exposure indecent exposure
that's just to name the few
remember we have two level three sex
offenders being shuffled between
properties this is next to our park and
two school bus stops
I'd like to thank councilmember Torgeson
and council member bang Giovanni for
their time and support over the last
three to four months with this issue at
the time of introduction the council
agreed to do an executive session on
this issue
I'm here to remind the Council of that
commitment and the impact of these
unregulated homes and businesses on our
community
our park is unusable intoxicated
individuals roam our streets with open
bottles of alcohol
we believe in recovery we believe in
patients rights
and everyone should have the right to
recover safely in a controlled
environment under special care of a
dedicated professional not the care of a
greedy business owner looking to make a
cheap Buck off The Misfortune of others
taking advantage of access and other
state and federal programs at the
expense of the taxpayer
recovery is a right for everyone
but it's not a right at the expense of
my town my community or my children
the effect on actual patients seeking
help is non-existent with most roaming
the streets all hours of the day with no
supervision
Arizona admin code Arizona ARS code and
Gilbert code are extremely clear on
these issues the residential facility
must provide the resident with the least
restrictive environment that meets the
residents treatments needs this chaos
does not meet those needs
only code that the town of Gilbert is
enforcing has the 1200 foot Mark in
between these homes
I ask again for the attention of counsel
in this matter and for the town of
Gilbert to enforce the codes as it
pertains to the business and houses and
the future success of our town and
Community I will also also offer my
information my research and my
experience during that session please
enforce our codes
thank you
thank you Casey
um
mayor if I may um
Patrick could we put this on an agenda
it was my understanding that excuse me
vice mayor could we get that direction
just after all the communities I'm sorry
that was it that's it okay thank you
thank you thanks for reminding me I
should have mentioned that
standing there was going to be an
internal group and that council member
Bon Jovani was going to lend his
expertise but maybe if we could get an
update on a on the agenda coming up soon
we actually have been working on that
internally and plan on bringing
something back to Council in April
thank you vice mayor for communications
from citizens now if you'd like to move
into the consent agenda yes mayor we
have one item that's been requested to
pull and that is item seven by council
member Torgeson
with that I would also like to bring
item number 17 forward
um
should I read all the numbers and then
add them
can I ask a follow-up question
councilmember Torgeson are you pulling
7A and B
it's two parts seven a so vice mayor you
could include 7B in your account if you
want to do a motion for the consent okay
is that what you were looking for okay
that'll be easier all right so um I'd
like to make a motion
to
approve consent items number three four
five six
seven b
8 9 10 11 a
um
is that right oh no
yes we had an 11 agent okay
um 12 13.
and 17
inserting the names of the appointed
members of the Ida Kevin DeRosa Robert
Elmer and Brett Thorpe
we have a motion can we have a second
so moved I have a motion by vice mayor
tilkey seconded by council member
koprowski please vote
it
lit up you're good
motion passes seven zero
okay item 7A council member torkeson
it's just it's more for edification but
as we're doing a study for lead and
copper compliance it's
I would like to know why this is lead
and copper is becoming a problem that we
have to comply with it is it because of
it was mentioned to me hydrophone
hydroflor elasticity I can't even
pronounce it properly
hydrofluoroacylic acid it's a byproduct
of a fertilizer that's being used is
that why we're seeing lead in Copper
problems that we have to do this kind of
study for
please
is that working thank you uh good
evening mayor members of council
um my name is Rebecca Hamel I'm the
town's water manager so this contract
before you tonight is in response to
revisions to the epa's letting copper
Rule and new regulations that were
required to follow by 2024
currently under the existing leading
copper rule we we do sampling
periodically in our customers homes to
check for leaching of lead from premise
Plumbing because that's the primary
source of lead contamination in drinking
water and we maintain pH control at our
two water treatment plants for corrosion
control
so does it have anything to do with what
I had mentioned
no they're the hydrofluorocilizic acid
fluoride is added to the drinking water
by voter mandate and is not a water
treatment chemical
does that answer your question
okay thank you Rebecca thank you
so we have item 7A that needs a motion
anyone like to
oh I move
um motion by council member Torgeson for
seven eight can I have a second please
second I have a motion by council member
torges and second by vice mayor
Toki could we please vote
motion passes seven oh I haven't it's
still voted sorry I jumped to the gun on
that one motion passes seven zero thank
you
fluoride was added to the Water by voter
approval and now we have to deal with
the after effects of that
and it is expensive to do thank you vice
mayor
we are moving on to the public hearing
portion of our agenda items will be
heard at one public hearing at which
time anyone wishing to comment on the
public hearing item may do so we have a
couple of items that people would like
to speak on item 14 is a liquor license
and I don't think anyone has any issues
with that what about item 16. does
anyone want to have a presentation
foreign
okay so then can I will open the public
hearing and close the public hearing on
item 14 would somebody like to make a
motion on that please
so move can I get a second
motion by vice mayor tilkey seconded by
councilmember Torgeson please vote
motion passes 7-0 now we will move on to
item 15 on our agenda we have 15. we
have 15 15 a and 15 B I'll open the
public hearing on all three of those and
I would suggest that we go to public
comment first and then bring the
conversation back to the dice if that's
okay with everybody yes vice mayor
thank you mayor first I would just like
to read that we have
um
two request to speak cards but they do
not wish to speak however they are
against item number 15 and 15 B and that
is Virginia Morrison
we have two speakers for 15 and then two
for 15 a so I'll just start with 15 if
that's all right so um again I'll call
your name you'll have three minutes
which will show up on the monitor just a
reminder to turn on the microphone if
the if the red light's on you'll know
that your your hot mic up there
so first up is Marine hop and then
following Bruce Levick took
good evening everyone so I just wanted
to kind of reiterate where we all are as
a community the citizens of Gilbert rule
this town you were all elected to
represent the citizens and make
decisions on what's in the best interest
of our town employees of the town do not
run the council
do your jobs do what you were all
elected to do
elections do have consequences and we
see that twice a month our elected
council is only as good as the
candidates we choose from
this current Council consists of a
non-speaker another who has no clue
whether the lights are on or off in this
building
the inside joke comedian the town's
personal PR professional the schoolmarm
and another who looks like you're just
sitting here wasting your time
this is not about each of you
individually this is not about your
personal and professional agendas this
is about my town Gilbert Arizona
how many times is this rail issue going
to be brought forth before you when will
you all exit once and for all enough
stop gaslighting stop your conning and
manipulating the power of this topic
should always be a vote by the people
spending money on feasibility studies
spending money discussing this yet again
has to stop
spending money in this economic downturn
is not warranted or welcomed this
Sideshow Bob routine is getting old
Gilbert does not want rail we never have
I'm imploring all of you to vote stop
any and all rail coming through Gilbert
and stop spending a dime again
discussing this topic give the power to
the people and let us vote and decide
thank you
thank you Maureen next up is Bruce
levinton and following
that will be Virginia Morrison
good evening
mayor board members
I'm a town of Gilbert resident Bruce
levich I've been here 21 years I choose
to live in Gilbert because of the
quality of life
I'm not speaking here tonight
as a lobbyist or a special interest
group I'm retired from the Maricopa
County Sheriff's Office 24 years and I
did boots on the ground in Phoenix with
the light reel I'll tell you everything
that you will never hear on channel 15
or the local newspaper it's a cesspool
it's a waste of taxpayer money it's a
burden on our police
our fire
and ambulance
if you you know I chose to live here in
Gilbert I don't want to have Gilbert
turn into a phoenix or a Chandler or a
Tempe I love where I live and all you
folks are fiduciaries
of our beautiful town I would rather
have that money spent on police or Parks
or rehab
instead of this waste of money I've seen
it for 11 years it's crime infested
it only brings the homeless from point A
to point B and and burglars you don't
want it it ruins businesses it ruins
established neighborhoods I've been
there I'm retired now four years thank
God how many fights I was in protecting
the light rail it's a waste of money
I hope you postpone this vote tonight
on the light rail it's a big big mistake
all right I haven't heard anybody I this
is the first time I spoke before the
board here and I've lived here 21 years
and it got me out of the house because I
was so angered that this has not been
dropped I have never heard anybody with
boots on the ground experience speak to
this board
that worked on the light rail and knows
what the heck goes on with the light
rail
I don't want my property values
devalued I don't want our poor fire in
in police spending tons of time with
these Light Rail
undesirables and you can give them a
ticket
but you can't get blood from a stone
they have no money they don't care
they don't care about the rule of law
so to get me out of the house to speak
to you and being a resident here and a
taxpayer for 21 years is darn important
so I'm coming from a dis different
perspective and if you're interested you
have my name and my email I'd love to
speak with you thank you
thank you very much Bruce
next up on
item number 15a is Virginia Morrison
in following Virginia
um Bruce were you wanting to speak twice
okay
thank you so much I appreciate that
okay let's see
Virginia there you go and you might want
to pull the mic down towards you
Virginia okay thank you
good evening
council members staff thank you for the
opportunity to voice citizens opinion my
name is Virginia Morrison I live at 932
East Stanford Avenue
I'm speaking against
public hearing item number 15 a on your
on tonight's agenda
insanity is doing the same thing
over and over again
and expecting different results
this Insanity has built more freeways
to relieve congestion and commuter
gridlock and where are we now
the same results
just more of it
with this proposed code 15a we continue
to lock ourselves into the same insanity
to restrict restrict Town staff's time
funds and anything of value to study
construct and any light rail or Commuter
Rail stations Keeps Us in the same
insanity
it prohibits the town from making any
informed decisions about town owned land
near existing lines
this ties the hands of the town to fully
study all options
we know the phenomenal growth
in the town of Gilbert it's doubled its
population every five years from 1980 to
2000. in 2030 Gilbert's expected build
out is anticipated to be over 300 000
residents and an ever increasing
commuter population
now is the time to plan not to tie the
hands of experts in the field
past councils have recognized the
importance of looking at all options and
planning ahead
we now benefit from that planning with
Express computer commuter buses to to
Phoenix reducing commuter time from 45
minutes to an hour to 30 minutes in
traffic
this took planning vision and a
willingness to look at all options
I know that each one of you on the
council are Visionaries
you wouldn't be where you are on the
diocese without being a Visionary you
envisioned yourself there
you are a leader in our community
because you have a desire to be
impactful to Gilbert and its residents
to leave a legacy through courage
vision and Leading Edge thinking
keeping an open mind
and not clinging to insanity
so as a private citizen
to one of many that believes we have to
look at options other
[Music]
thank you very much Virginia
mayor that is it for our public comments
thank you vice mayor thank you very much
Virginia thank you Bruce for your
service
um thank you for that and thank you
Maureen for speaking this evening we
appreciate you coming out to share your
thoughts on this topic I will go ahead
and close the public hearing and bring
it back to the diocese for discussion we
have three items in front of us 15 15 a
and 15b
I will I will start with just a few
comments on um the comments that were
made by our residents
um
I I appreciate the passion and and you
coming up coming out of your house to be
here this evening
no matter what we do at this level at
the Town Council we will not be able to
stop commuter rail potentially from
coming through Gilbert The Rail lines
are owned by a private entity and if an
outside company such as Amtrak chooses
to bring commuter rail on those lines
the town of Gilbert will not have a say
one way or the other we will be able to
participate in conversations if we make
the right decisions this evening we will
be able to plan for the future as was
mentioned
we will be able to decide what is best
for our community should the commuter
rail decide to come through our town
using the Rail lines that are already
here in place that's just a given I
don't want anyone to think that anything
that we do tonight could potentially
stop the commuter rail from coming to
Gilbert because it really can't all it
will stop potentially depending on what
and if we vote on something is if the
town of Gilbert provides any funding for
the commuter rail so I just wanted to be
clear about that Bruce we have no
intentions of bringing Light Rail to
Gilbert we haven't had any intention of
bringing any light rail to Gilbert it's
never been part of our plan and we keep
going round and round with this but it
is not part of our plan for Gilbert to
bring Light Rail into this community I
don't think it's the right fit for
Gilbert it fits in the cities that it's
in it is not going to make its way all
the way down here from Main Street to
the town of Gilbert so you can be
assured that I have no intention of ever
letting Light Rail come to Gilbert as
long as I'm part of this counselor
planning this community in any way
I submitted the first ordinance this
evening because I allow I I believe that
it allows the public to have a voice and
for transparency into the future of any
potential commuter railing Gilbert it
lowers all substantial liability and
ensures that the public is in control of
fees or taxes specifically for rail it
does not impede the public this Council
and town staff from being involved in
discussions should commuter rail ever
move forward and it does not jeopardize
the development agreement that we have
with Cooley station breaking a
development agreement could cost us more
than money it costs us our reputation as
a town that we're open to business and
responsible for contracts that we pass
and we stand by those agreements
commuter rail may never come through
Gilbert but the other ordinances could
open us up to a costly lawsuit if we
pass this past those versions and I'm
concerned about that it was mentioned
that we have a fiduciary responsibility
to this community and we do that's an
irresponsible counter to something thing
that may never happen I purposely
separated out a fee and a tax after I
did some research and learned that a
city or a town can in fact create a new
tax for a service if they are not a
charter City
Gilbert is not a charter city so we
could create a new tax without a
referendum to our voters hence why I
added two separate entries into the
ordinance that I put on the agenda for
this evening one that would not allow us
to assess a new fee for light rail or
commuter rail and one would that would
not allow us to pass a tax for a light
rail or commuter rail without a
referendum to the voters so the voters
have complete control over that
I'd like to open it up to any more
comments or questions and if you want to
comment on anyone or all of them or just
start with 15 it's up to you
that's why I'm talking I'll start with
15a I separated out light rail because I
heard every single person up here say
they were against Light Rail and
I did it so that we could have at least
one piece of clarity if everybody's
truly against that then we don't allow
staff to push that agenda forward
whatsoever
we just stop it right now that can
always be undone in the future by four
Council people if they voted to do so
but at least we would be able to give
people the Assurance they're asking for
it and I participated in the light rail
conversations over 25 years ago
and I'm very grateful it stopped at
Gilbert Road on Main Street I have a
business on Main Street and it's
horrible
and as I watched the uh mesa's state of
the city address they were joking that
they were going to call Phoenix the
suburbs in the future they were going to
urbanize so much well I welcome that
urbanization up there but not here so I
wanted to make sure that that was
separate and clean so there was no there
was nothing about it that was uh tied
into commuter rail and I believe Chris
that we had we feel that we had done it
cleanly exactly as discussed on the
diets the last meeting we have we think
right and then 15b was set aside so we
could still participate in the
conversations because there's so many
conversations regarding commuter rail
that are around staff there's different
boards and commissions that they
participate in but that no expenses
outside expenses such as the study that
was proposed earlier uh any commitment
of money would would be done without the
council doing it and the reason I did
that is the staff couldn't spend fifty
thousand dollars doing a study twenty
thousand ten five uh it would it would
force transparency that four people up
on this diocese would have to vote to
spend that money to do a study for
commuter rail and as far as the
development agreement goes I believe
it's already been broken several times
and that uh quite seriously it says we
may
for commuter reality for for a transit
station it doesn't commit us
to using commuter rails so I feel that
allowing it to be brought up
for transparency purposes rather than
just done through staff gives
accountability to the four people up
here and we can take ownership of it if
we vote or not so I'll never vote for it
but if four members up here wish to vote
for it they can be held accountable by
you so this wasn't to put anything past
you it was actually to make sure that
there was complete transparency and
everybody would have to be held
accountable for their vote
thanks for listening
any other comments councilmember Bon
Giovanni so like how did we get here
um
you know something that a lot of people
don't know and I didn't know it before I
got on the council is uh open meeting
laws which means that I can't give young
a call and talk to her about this issue
and then give Kathy a call then the
mayor of the call sorry vice mayor call
Jim I can't call I can't speak to more
than two people about this
so you know that's why I think we're
here because we have three different
ordinances here that same kind of
different things which is why I felt
like we needed to separate
um
the light rail from commuter rail
if we can't stop commuter rail I am in
favor of
uh at least coming to the table
discussing what our options are
light rail on the other hand everyone
here from what I can tell almost
everyone here has said on the dice at
one time
Light Rail is not coming to Gilbert
we're not doing Light Rail and the
problem is there's so much confusion
about like what light rail is what
commuter rally is that's why I believe
we separated it so we understand it and
I just want to respectfully
challenge my fellow colleagues
who said they won't have light rail in
Gilbert
to vote no to 15 a
vote Yes to 15. I'm sorry vote note of
15 and vote Yes to 15a we need some
clarity here we're just there's so many
so much information and disinformation
out there
I personally felt along with council
member torges and council member Buckley
that we just we needed to separate these
issues so if we've said on the diocese
there won't be any light rail
then why are we continuing to put it in
here that says we can talk about it the
development contract Vermont I believe
says and or light rail or commuter rail
again if we can't control commuter rail
I want to see it at the table but I want
us all to put back public trust from
what is said on the diocese if you have
said on the dice and said No Light Rail
then I believe you need to vote Yes for
15a and no to 15. and maybe 15b vote Yes
so we could have a seat at the table
unfortunately it got to this but I think
these three different uh ordinances
makes it a little bit more clearer
uh to everyone out there because there
is so much disinformation and
misinformation out there about the two
so again I I encourage my colleagues to
vote no to 15.
vote Yes to light rails I mean yes to
eliminate Light Rail so we can never
talk about it again in the dice and then
15b you know I would hope that we would
at least have a seat at the table
because I do agree with some of the
people that have been talking about that
so again the reason why we can't talk to
each other is law so that's why we're up
here with three different audiences and
I just wanted to make that clear so you
know we don't look like a kangaroo court
up here all trying to do all different
ordinances so that's it
in the comments
comes to my Buckley yeah I
I want to just say that these two have
said everything I would have said as
well and that we've discussed uh I
there's probably not anyone in here that
knows my position on uh Light Rail or
commuter rail
I I'm was a little bit taken aback that
I don't know maybe Amtrak is considered
commuter rail am I wrong in that uh okay
so I mean I know that if Amtrak comes I
think the purpose of this is if they do
come there won't be any taxpayer money
spent to build rail they need to if
commuter rail comes here and they stop
they have to have a place to turn around
there they can't do that as far as I'm
aware right now they can't you know they
can't turn around if they need to make a
stop and turn around and go back to
Phoenix wherever they're going so that
would to me that means they need to
build some rail in there to do that to
be able to make that area wherever that
might be to turn around but I you know I
I would urge
to vote no on 15 and yes on a and b
to and that does take light rail
completely off the table every a lot of
people and a lot and sometimes I think
we say light rail when we mean commuter
row and uh then then we won't have to
have that issue anymore I mean if it's
not coming it's not coming and we can we
can vote that way and then vote
for 15b so that we will have the options
that Gem and Chuck were talking about we
it gives us an option to vote again if
we what we want to do and right yeah
yeah so uh that that's where I am on
this and and I I think
it's it's the only option that we have
right now is to vote Yes on On A and B
and and give everybody a voice
councilmember koprowski
I appreciate the discussion that's been
had and the
conversation and the public that has
come to speak today
I do think that it's a bit unfortunate
that we're at this point of using
ordinances as a tool because I do feel
that our current processes and
procedures would allow us to
um
have make decisions on
rail any issues any major issues would
come to counsel and require our
Direction and approval it doesn't
require the ordinance to be in place for
that to already happen the we we cannot
the town right now could not go out and
do a Transit study without that coming
back to council and getting or having
discussion and approval and so I think
that we're trying to pull on strings to
make something happen but I I feel the
ordinance is like is the wrong tool in
the toolbox that we're using right now
and I hope that we can get to a point
where we understand better how to work
together for these difficult decisions
or
issues in the community that are
sensitive because I think everyone up
here the Common Thread is that we care
about the community and we want to make
good decisions but that does require
information that does require working
with a lot of different bodies and and
outside agencies so I do hope that we
can come up with additional processes
and procedures or understand how we can
use our current ones to make sure that
we feel comfortable moving forward with
those decisions
um some of those tools could be planning
studies because those include more broad
public engagement we could have advisory
boards that could bring information to
us to help enhance our understanding of
not only these issues but other major
issues so that we have a better idea for
the town's issues that the wants and
needs of our community so that we can
make better decisions in the future
I personally think these ordinances are
a bit
of a mix-up I I think that even though I
understand that
as a body I don't believe we would pass
anything related to light rail I think
that's been mostly misinformation
um that it seems odd for us to pass an
ordinance to talk about that when it
wasn't the original subject that we're
talking about because I I don't want to
give a false sense of security in case
there's still that miscommunication
about commuter rail versus Light Rail
for commuter rail my position is still
trying to keep options open
and it's not because I support it one
way or the other but I just don't want
to Tire hands and I do feel that the
council currently has the power to
review each step of the way and provide
direction
if any future studies or issues come up
all of it is a big if right now I don't
think anything's on the table and I and
I don't believe that this Council will
see anything
for a while in this area but I know that
with the new Council it has been good to
discuss these issues and make sure that
we can talk as a group and be
transparent but I do think that as
council members and this board right now
um
we just need to
understand the processes procedures and
tools that we have to move forward with
this and any issue and I do think that
we're moving in the right direction but
personally I don't think the ordinances
are are the right tool in this case
thank you
if I could address that for a second the
ability to
be held accountable let's say the
whatever the last study was that was
brought up yes the council was brought
up before that Council it could be
brought forward under the current
Council under 15b but expenses that are
below that threshold would be restricted
if I don't believe there's any restraint
under a certain amount for directors to
spend on things like
I don't know a survey which can always
be couched to get the answer you wish
there's this allows our town to be at
the table for the discussions and the
normal day in and day out process that
staff would use but it would not allow
it to be invested in without our Express
consent and and to be held accountable
and if that means it's an extra couple
of agenda items a year to be held
accountable for a ten thousand dollar
survey so be it but at least then people
don't feel it's being done behind their
back and when you have there's a term
that that's used and it was used and how
this was caught was a term called wildly
important goals and it was stuck into uh
the the budget and fared it out and it
regarded money spent for looking at
commuter and commuter rail specifically
and the problem is when you look that up
I I forget the professor's name but it
was something I remembered in college
and I looked it up and there it is it's
it's some it's a method to keep
something on the table even when
everybody else at the table is against
it you use your wildly important goal is
put on the side of the table until it's
time to just throw it down Throw Down
The Gauntlet and get it done and it was
done by a socialist Professor from
Harvard as I recall and when I had
somebody look up they couldn't even get
to the total I think my email said that
that term was used 128
000 times
in Gilbert emails
128 000. I I could be maybe I'm missing
a comma somewhere but it's used enough
that it's concerning and my sole goal in
doing this is complete accountability to
the people in this town there's nothing
that will happen regarding something
that they're all concerned about without
this Council being 100 accountable for
it
heck I I could even possibly vote for it
if it was something that made sense
but
even if I want the loser on something in
the future everybody can sit there and
be held accountable I've already been
called horrible things for being against
it let alone defending most of the
people that want this not to happen
so this is all about transparency
accountability it will not the fact that
it comes in front of us we're not
breaking a development agreement but
technically at all because we're
considering it we don't break it until
we break it
and this allows us to consider that is
it worth breaking something to do this
is it not
are we stopping it and as as it was said
Amtrak uh
yeah if they turn around and they they
wanted to
pay for something dude or just drive
through Gilbert just take the train
through Gilbert we can't stop them from
using their rails but we most certainly
don't need to promote it and promote it
in the middle of this town and I
challenge you to go on Metrolink in
Glendale California my hometown and tell
me that's a comfortable decent place you
want to be it's an Amtrak function
it's commuter rail and it's dangerous
and I don't think we need to go over
light relegating because I think anybody
that wants to sit there and take the
light rail on a daily basis is a thrill
seeker it's silly it's dangerous
so my sole point was for us to be
completely 100 percent transparent and
accountable to everybody in this town
councilmember Anderson
I heard tonight someone who came up to
the podium and said we thought that he
had killed this whole idea of a light
rail a long time ago I thought that too
several months ago I thought we killed
it and it just keeps coming back
and I hope tonight we kill it so that it
never comes up again
because Light Rail is not intended to be
in Gilbert I don't know how we make that
message more clear
now in the commuter rail you've already
heard tonight that there's not a whole
lot that we can do about commuter rail
if the private entity that the mayor is
talking about decides to use those Rail
lines
what will be bad policy on the part of
this Council going forward is doing what
happened in this town about 35 years ago
which some of you may remember and some
of you probably don't remember
but we Gilbert went all the way to the
freeway freeway Frontage on the 60
all along the 60 alignment for many
years and at some point in time Gilbert
sat down and negotiated away our
Frontage on the 60.
that was bad policy that was
short-sighted and I don't want to be
short-sighted about the commuter rail we
certainly can if Amtrak decides to run a
line from Tucson through Phoenix and
over to the west side we can wave as it
goes by in Gilbert that is bad policy
and will be criticized in the future by
Future residents because we didn't take
the opportunity to at least
study whether or not we wanted to
benefit economically from having that
line come through Gilbert
we'll all regret that in the future
and so I'm I'm all for killing this
whole idea of about a light rail
the commuter rail I still want that
ability to do more than just sit down
and be at the table I want to be able to
know what our options may be in the
future and we can only find that out
through studies
and we should be able to we don't want
to spend any money on the on the line
itself I'm bringing Amtrak in we won't
spend any money doing that but we should
spend money to know whether or not we
can benefit from it coming through the
town
councilmember Anderson
I have a few mics on council member yep
um Chris maybe you can make sure that
we're not confused because
people get confused all the time by
library on community rails so
from what council member Anderson said
if he wants to kill Light Rail is it
correct by saying voting no for 15 yes
for 15a
um
and yes for 15b is that correct
mayor councilman Giovanni um I think
it's best to speak to 15a that's the one
that deals directly with the light rail
so if this ordinance has proposed would
pass it would mean that the town would
be prohibited from spending or using any
resources for light rail for the
furtherance of Light Rail in Gilbert and
the resources include spending money
accounts credit facilities Personnel
equipment and the like so as far as
process goes
if we vote on 15
and he goes 4-3 to pass
and we vote
um
yes on 15a
what happens since they're biological
biological they're they're totally
different thank you they're totally
different one is 15a is saying you know
Light Rail is in there and then 50 I'm
sorry 15 says light rails in there 15a
says Light Rail is not in there am I
correct yes because there's and in there
yeah so the the two ordinances are very
different so as I mentioned 15a talks
about a Prohibition on spending any
money or doing anything to further Light
Rail in Gilbert within the
jurisdictional boundaries of Gilbert it
would not prohibit you know Town staff
or town officials from participating in
planning bodies it also would prohibits
again 15a assessing a tax or fee for
purposes of you know aiding in the
design planning construction operation
or maintenance of Light Rail within the
town 15 what 15 would do is it would
prohibit the town from assessing a new
fee or purpose of Light Rail or commuter
rail within the jurisdiction of the town
and it would also uh prohibit the town
from assessing a new tax for either
commuter rail Light Rail
without first going to referendum
without first going to the voters okay
so we want to say no to light rail
15 with that ore in there doesn't do
that am I correct what 15 would do with
regard to light rail it would prohibit
the town from assessing any new tax for
light rail or
assessing sorry any new fee for light
rail at all and then would prohibit any
new tax without going for a referendum
with light rail that's what it would do
okay so that kind of that's kind of like
complaining about your your electric
bill but leaving your window open
so we would basically if we want to say
no to light rail it's not going to
happen here that we would have to vote
no for 15. am I correct
I I don't know council member wants you
mind if I can answer that I think that's
a question for the policy makers I can
explain what the ordinances do but as
far as whether it would be close out
light rail I think that's for the policy
makers to decide but but again 15 would
say no new tax
no new fee for light rail it wouldn't
prohibit the spending of money for
studies or anything like that with
regard to either Light Rail or commuter
rail 15a which is the light rail
prohibition would prohibit everything
with regard to light rail but it doesn't
close the door unlike rail 15 yes it
would allow the town to spend money the
only thing it would do is prohibit new
taxes or new fees with regard to light
rail or commuter rail okay thank you
actually to take that
no new no new taxes or fees but current
taxes could be used
under that under 15 correct uh council
member torrickson yes it just says the
town shall not assess a new tax without
referendum or a new fee right so it
doesn't restrict spending on it so if we
took let's say we had just a great sales
tax going on we could ostensibly invest
in that without
under 15. it could just wouldn't involve
new fees voter input anything we could
continue to move forward and spend money
regardless
correct so again this ordinance would
just say no no new fees or no new taxes
without no limit on the spending it
doesn't talk about spending it just says
15b though says that spending beyond the
uh some time
of Staff participating any spending can
be possible if brought in front of the
council correct
15b
[Music]
so 15b accounts member Torgeson would
say let me get to this
it says the town shall and this is
subsection B of 15b the Town shall not
expend monies for the furtherance of
commuter rail located within the
jurisdicts of the Town including but not
limited to money for to conduct studies
to design construct maintain stations or
facilities supporting Community rail or
include commuter rail in any Town
transportation plan but what about
subsection e of that of 15b 15b there's
no subsection e it's only okay it's only
in 15a okay 15b it was there's supposed
to be something in and it brings up if
voted on by the current Council
John was supposed to put that in there
okay that that language is in 15a I know
there's a subsection e that talks about
that and what that says is no further
expenses other than those permitted by
this article shall shall be incurred by
or on behalf of town the town without
Express Council approval that's supposed
to be in 15b I can solve that for you
though very easily councilmember nothing
can be spent without coming to the
council for a vote at any time staff has
absolutely no say over whether their
budget goes no they have say where their
budget goes but they cannot do a
feasibility study or a contract without
coming to the council for how much money
what is their budget limit on that
because I see things Patrick's the only
one that has a budget limit that he can
spend up to a certain amount without
having to come to the council I don't
think anybody else has a limit as to
every item that is going to have to be
approved has has to be approved by this
body
whether it be a feasibility study a
contract a road widening whatever the
CIP project is it's either in our budget
and outlined in the budget so that you
know what that is or it comes to this
Council and you approve the budget the
seven of us approve the budget so
everything that is spent comes to this
Council
and I think that's what council member
Kapowski was trying to say a couple of
minutes ago mayor would you would you
consider taking light rail off of 15 and
therefore we could eliminate 15b totally
I would I would be all four eliminating
15b because there's too many pieces to
it that I just cannot vote for but would
you take light rail off of I don't think
I need to take light rail off of mine I
think I can add an amendment to mine and
I already have it written that would be
very simple the town shall not expend
monies for construction maintenance or
repair or Commuter or light rail located
within the jurisdiction of the Town
that's construction maintenance or
repair yeah but it still keeps it open
how does that keep it open you're not
allowed to spend any money the word well
the word or keeps it open I mean if we
want to kill it we need to kill it we
can't keep it on life support as an ore
I don't see how ore keeps it open but I
would not vote for 15b
I know that council member caprese also
had another comment and council member I
mean sorry vice mayor hasn't said
anything so we would need to let her
have a chance
so I wanted to follow up after
councilmember Torgeson made some
comments I think what I heard from you
is you have a concern over items not
coming to the council because they might
be under a certain threshold and so I
wanted to ask staff the town manager or
town attorney I believe that amount
might be a hundred thousand dollars
but
um is there
a different process where this body
could give direction to staff that for
commuter rail and or
any I guess Transit options that those
options would come to staff for At Any
cost level versus following that one
specific policy
or or is the ordinance required in order
for that to take effect
a mayor council member Kapowski so I'm
going to try to recap what you said and
answer your question
um regarding expenditure expenditure
Authority I have the authority to
authorize expenditures up to fifty
thousand dollars for contingency uses so
things that either we've ex an
unanticipated expense or something that
needs to be dealt with within the fiscal
year did that was not part of the
approved budget as part of the fiscal
year and then when it comes to capital
projects they have spending Authority up
to a hundred thousand dollars tied to
those projects and any of that would
also flow through to the reports to the
council in the quarterly reports so if
the desire was to restrict spending on a
specific type of work or study Council
would need to take some kind of action
to restrict that
vice mayor would you like to
thank you mayor um quickly before I
begin
um Patrick I believe that could be done
through our financial policies
um which would outline the procedure to
spend money I think in certain areas so
um something to think about
um I don't know if that's close enough
so
a lot of conversation up here this
evening and I don't want to go into the
difference between our our ability
regarding Light Rail or commuter rail
mirror I think you you covered that
um well
but what I'm opposed to is bringing
multiple
ordinances back and forth
to this dice without a working group
without us sitting down and really
talking about what can we agree on and
what we can agree on and
I think that um
we're we're talking which is good and
we're having a conversation we're trying
to find out where we all are in order to
put some type of policy in place but to
continue it in the form that we're doing
is insane it is definitely insane and I
think it is because one it continues to
upset our residents and they're very
unnerved and I don't blame them because
we're having conversations about
something that's not even happening
today and so that I think is misleading
it when we are trying to govern in such
a way that is very transparent and
understandable to people
the way the conversation is going looks
like those of us who are trying to make
good policy and do it in the way that it
should be done all of a sudden are the
supporters of Light Rail and
commuter rail and we're not it's not
true we're just trying to figure out the
best process in order to have meaningful
conversations with our with our
community
it also represents that this Council has
no intention
of working together to find Solutions so
when you keep signing things to bring
things up here and nobody gets to talk
about them except for in a format that
looks like we're a divided Council
that's the that's what people see out
there now I know very clearly I've had
conversations with you in our
orientation we all said we want to work
together this is not doing that
it's embarrassing I'm embarrassed and I
want us to sit down and find Solutions
together not in this format that is just
causing distress and unrest within our
community that is not fair to the all of
our citizens so as I'm sitting up here
I'm thinking okay what are we agreeing
on we're agreeing
that I'm assuming we're agreeing that we
don't want to spend any new fees to fund
the commuter rail line or bring a
Light Rail to to Gilbert I think that's
what we're agreeing on we don't want any
new tax to come forward unless the
people of Gilbert said they wanted it I
think that's pretty standard in most
cases whether it's light right Light
Rail or the commuter rail
I thought that we all agreed we want the
ability to participate and have Regional
conversations that deal with these
Transportation issues we want to see it
at the table we want to understand what
could be coming
from our neighbors that could impact our
community so if I'm understanding we all
agree on that
what we don't appear to agree on is the
ability of us to use Town resources to
do studies to actually go out and get
the information we need have Community
conversations and bring that all back to
us I'm not sure why we don't agree with
it but it appears we don't
so that's an area that we need to be
working on and figure out what we can
come up with to me
what's negotiable is allowing us to have
these Community conversations about a
regional I'm going to just get right to
the commuter rail this is a regional
issue that could impact our community
one way or another and for us to
blanketly say we are not going to study
anything that has to do with light rail
is irresponsible
that doesn't mean we're going to have a
station that doesn't mean anything it
means we're going to understand that if
a Commuter Rail line goes through our
community we are going to understand
what that means and yes when you do a
study it's going to cost money
and we should have the ability to do
that to take that away it's not big
picture it's not looking at the future
we're only looking at today and I I just
don't think that's the way we should be
doing business we were charged and we
were elected to look at this community
into the future and what could impact us
and I would recommend
that
we stop this
with these ordinances back and forth
we we get together and we figure out
what it is we want to do in a different
format and then we bring something back
this I I just can't even believe that
we've been having this conversation
since last summer and nobody has talked
one time about bringing Light Rail to
this community nobody's even asking us
in this commuter rail
I'll be like if my grandkids are still
around if it ever happens and so I I
just don't like the fact that we're
bringing up and we're creating an
environment that doesn't need to be
there so I believe there's other avenues
as ordinances aren't the way to do this
we have a master Transportation plan we
could take a look at that see if there's
some language we put in there that
clearly states that any of these
conversations could come back I don't
care it could be a financial policy but
this ordinances don't do it
and I don't I I don't like seeing this
the way this is happening and it doesn't
allow you three to talk to any of us to
get any input from us and I'm hoping
that that nobody talked to anybody else
after the three of you made the decision
to come or mayor that you made the
decision to come I just
this is this isn't the way we do
business and it shouldn't be yeah vice
mayor that's exactly what I said two
weeks ago and I offered to continue the
last discussion and bring It Forward for
a study session or something and
um we were forced to a vote on that
night so I decided to take the bull by
the horns and create an ordinance that I
thought would
protect the community answer the
questions and end the discussion I am
not for continuing this off another
night at this point we don't meet again
until April and we have this hanging
over our heads and we are I think we
just need to figure out I'll make a
motion for
the ordinance that I submitted
I will move to approve item 15 and I
will add an amendment the town shall not
expend monies for construction
maintenance or repair of commuter and or
light rail located within the
jurisdiction of the town
can I get a second on that ordinance
the floor
well you didn't give
you didn't give spawn to
normally to her comments
but I do still do have an emotion on the
floor I still have emotion on the floor
would anyone like to second that motion
if not then it'll just die
and then we can go back to conversation
councilmember Buckley thank you
first of all I want to say that
I will never be embarrassed
for representing the people that elected
me I am not embarrassed by this I the
the residents of Gilbert
do not want Light Rail commuter room and
it has come and it's gone and it's back
and none of us want that to happen
that's why we have 15a and 15b to
hopefully put a stop to this but I will
never be embarrassed for representing
the people that elected and I'm
embarrassed that you said that that you
actually and and I'm sorry to say that I
mean this is here and we'll go off and
and hopefully still be friends but uh I
this is something the community does not
want and we need to show them that we
are
going to represent them
and by continuing to say well we and I
and I understand that we want something
on the table but right now we're we're
supposedly the city of the future we're
looking to our future and it seems like
three of us are are looking to the
future of making sure and ensuring the
town of Gilbert does not have commuterol
and then the rest of us want to be able
to have it and and that's fine but we
all have a vote and I will never be
embarrassed by by my vote
I mean sorry councilman Giovanni maybe
I'm the council member that doesn't know
if the lights are on or off but
um
you know
yes you know council member Torgerson
councilman Buckley and myself are new
we're still learning the process
and I'm very happy during during the
week uh vice mayor tilkey called me up
and said Chuck you know you could have
done it this way and I appreciated that
discussion we could have done it in a
study session or various other actions
but mayor you the one you you brought
this on the agenda today we had to put
our ordinances on the agenda to defend
ourselves now I would think if you
mentioned last week we should have come
to a study session or something else
that you would have done that so I was
shocked and you were disappointed that I
called the vote I'm disappointed that we
even see this on the agenda today
without having that discussion that you
recommended to us so the three of us you
know not knowing exactly all the
processes
had to come up with you know what we
thought were were representing the the
citizens of Gilbert by saying this Kill
Light Rail so I would have rather gone
your direction that you said and let's
all talk
but
we weren't given that opportunity
because you put it on the agenda today
so it kind of feels like you know mama
bear who just scolded her three little
cubs you know uh I that's just how I
feel I'm sorry
I put it on the agenda because you did
take it to a vote and didn't give us an
opportunity to bring the ordinance
forward that's why I put it on an agenda
had we not voted that Tuesday night we
would have brought it forward to a study
session so that we could discuss it
that's that's what I would have wanted
to do why couldn't we still do that
before you put it on the agenda could we
have still done that could we've gone to
a study session sure okay but I already
knew that you were working on ordinances
to bring forward
but it wasn't handed in until we saw
your Jordan itself but I didn't know
that
because I can't talk to you guys okay
so you know again the public sees that
we cannot speak to each other and
because the three that were working on
the ordinances were talking to each
other they couldn't talk to the rest of
us this is open meeting law this is
State of Arizona laws that we have to
live up to all the time so we don't have
an opportunity to discuss these items so
we come up here and this is our
opportunity to discuss them but couldn't
we have had a study session together
yes and that's what I asked for last
time before we voted
neither here nor there at this time I
went back and rewatched the meeting
today but we need to make a decision at
this point in time
yes vice mayor oh
thank you mayor
um council member Buckley
my comment was I was embarrassed by the
process that we're using not by any of
us standing up and talking about what we
believe so I hope that you understand
that that wasn't what I meant but um I
would like to see
the ability I think there are other ways
of going about this without it being an
ordinance the way that these are written
um so if we need a study session if we
need to ask for some clarity from our
Our Town staff I would appreciate that
yes
Chris that subsection e that I spoke
about could you
address that
councilman Victoria said so that
subsection that you talked about it's in
15a and what it says is no further
expenses other than those permitted
by this article shall be incurred or on
behalf of the town without Express
Council approval
all right that was meant for B so that
we would have the option to hear that so
that staff wasn't empowered to make an
expense as you would point it out young
but that was something that we could
clearly vote on and if four people said
hey this is we're spending two hundred
thousand dollars for a study we could
but it would definitely be there if it
was worth spending twenty thousand
dollars ten five but we would at least
be held accountable it was giving us the
option that subsection was giving us the
option I'm sorry that it got put on a
because a was not meant to have that
option b was meant to have that option
and if you look at B with that on there
and if if we could consider it that way
it gives us the option
to hear that and be presented that
and vote for it and quite seriously
maybe pass it not pass it whatever but
it would it would add that level of
accountability that these people want
and that's all it is it doesn't say you
can't do it it says it can't be done
without our Express
consent is what it says and that was my
understanding too that that was going to
be in there I don't know how it ended up
in 15 but my I I thought I was going to
be in 15b which would give us the option
to talk about commuter rail separate 15a
to say we're done with light rail
that's how I thought it was supposed to
be set up if we could add it to that
it's kind of like merging 15 with 15b in
some way
but again I think it comes back to I
think almost everyone up here said No
Light Rail so let's
let's kill it
there are still too many items in 15b
that I'm not comfortable with too many
way too many items that I'm not
comfortable with and it really does say
that you cannot conduct a feasibility
study and so
without counselor
approval but it doesn't say that the way
that it's written here in the packet and
that's what I'm stating it doesn't say
that the way it's written here in the
packet it also omits
discussing commuter rail as part of our
transportation plan that is just poor
planning
and irresponsible and not transparent to
our residents to not discuss that
commuter rail could be coming through
this community so that our residents
know that it could be coming through
this community that's irresponsible so I
would not vote for 15b there's just too
many items that's just a couple
that I saw right off the bat
so I would not do that do we want to I
council member Anderson
I don't know that I'm ready to vote on
any of these I would rather
remove these and go back I told you what
my goal was Kill Light Rail
leave the door open to study a
multi-modal
station which will have several modes of
transportation that will use it not just
commuter rail that door should be left
open so we aren't doing irresponsible
planning and it's that simple and I
we're just making it more complicated it
seems to me
councilman Anderson that's that's what
we originally thought we were doing but
e didn't end up in there that's exactly
what we were our goal was was to do that
but if e e had ended up in 15 B anyway
there's too many parts of 15b that just
don't work
so I would not be comfortable with still
I think if you voted on 15 and 15a right
now you would accomplish everything that
you wanted to but
two ordinances that's over regulation
it's over government governing I don't
like putting two ordinances out to do
the same thing I would prefer to see one
come back
that covers everything but eliminates
all of the things in 15b that are wrong
with it I will not support 15. so we
took off light rail in 15 would that do
it
why why would you take off light rail it
still says no assessed fee or tax for
either one just shut the door no
no so
and he's saying that's what I thought
yeah
the Troublemaker I'm the guy that's
pushing this in the interest of trying
to make this work
you know either we can consider adding e
which it's supposed to be in 15b that
subsection which allows us to to be held
accountable 15a uh it e shouldn't be in
15a I think everybody kind of agrees
that's not there but 15b if we
bring that subsection over
should accomplish the goal that we're
all transparent now I know there's
things that you don't like in it but
overall that allows us to be in to vote
for expenses on that so there's nothing
that's done without Express consent and
that's I want the I want to be
accountable to these people 100 percent
when people are yelling at me I want to
be guilty of what they're yelling at me
about
I don't want it to be that somebody else
just kind of got it through
can I make a motion
I I would like to make a motion that we
can actually have a study session
together with all of us so we can
resolve this I know you want to resolve
tonight but I don't think that's going
to happen and so I'd like to make a
motion that we have a study session with
all of us together and work this out
I'll second that
do we make motions to have study
sessions that's not
typical process
I know what you're saying too it's just
that okay well all right so okay you
would have to make table this
so that we can all get together
or just make a motion to table this
until the whatever date it would have to
be a motion to table all three items on
the agenda this evening and you to a
date
not listed right that's what we table is
to a date not known mayor council yes
table is the right motion if it's to a
date unknown so you would move to table
these three ordinances and then in the
meantime you could request to have a
study session either the mayor or the
town manager or three council members
can make a request to have you know
study session on this topic
Amendment
we have we don't really have an official
motion at the moment we have a we have a
motion for a study session that isn't a
really emotion I'm gonna redo that
motion I'm gonna make a motion to table
15 15a and 15 B
we have a second I'm trying to do the
math here for a second part pardon me
pardon me if
if I want to keep if I want a table 15
and 15b and keep 15 a is that an
amendment to hers or what is that how
does that work
it's like algebra
you could let yeah you can let her
motion die by not making a second and
make your own motion
it's probably the easiest
so we have a motion do we have a second
I'll second it so excuse me mayor thank
you procedurally now that there's a
second yes councilmember Bon Jovani you
could then move to amend the motion
that's now on the table
now you can amend the motion that was
made to table 15 15a and 15 B and I
think council member koprowski had
something too yeah God cousin
my suggestion to amend tabling item 15
15 a 15 B was to also add that we
provide direction to
come back to council if any expenses are
incurred related to commuter rail or
light rail
or something to that effect
that that come to council or that that
like those limits to be adjusted okay I
I see what you're saying
if we're going to table it and move it
to a study session maybe just bring that
with you
I think I was trying to avoid the study
session but if we want to come to a
study session
okay I feel like we're playing poker so
we have a motion to table with an
amendment to include
all expend all expenses have to be
brought to the council I'll drop my
Amendment excuse me you'll drop in okay
thank you then I don't have to repaint
it so I have a motion and a second
councilmember Bon Giovanni do you have
an amendment
um
I see your motion raise it too no
um you're the jokester I'm the jokester
by the way I'd like to see 15a stand
because it sounds like we are in
agreement with 15a but we're not in
agreement with
uh commuter rail
so you would like to remove 15a from the
motion to table 15 15a and 15b
that's your Amendment
help me Chris so call a friend council
member that's correct and if that's your
intent just just move to amend the
motion to exclude 15 a okay now we would
need to vote on the amendment correct
correct so he would have to council
member if you want to make that motion
make that motion then we'll need a
second
and if there's a second then we vote on
the amended motion does councilman Bon
Giovanni have a second to amend the
motion yes okay so on our amended motion
to remove 15a from the tabled 15 15a and
15 B we need to vote so you're only
voting on whether or not to remove 15 a
from the tabled motion of 15 15 a and 15
B
please vote
Chris quick question
Chris uh oh we had an abstention
um
a yes vote on this means we're
separating it correct okay thank you so
a yes vote on the amendment means that
15a has pulled been pulled out of the
tabled motion so now we have a motion to
table 15 and 15 B with a second
that's correct I'm honest we go back to
the original motion as amended yes with
original motion as amended cabling 15
and 15 15 and 15 B yes so we have the
motion to table 15 15 and 15 B please
vote
foreign
the first vote passed four two one so it
was four yes two no and one abstention
so 15a was removed now council member
Bon Jovani would you like to do
something with 15a
yeah I like to call vote on 15a you need
to make a motion not call a vote I make
a motion on 15a
approve approve you make a motion to
what
to approve 15a
could you read the language of that
I can I have it right up in front of me
it is
well it's quite long prohibition of
utilization of town resources for
purposes of this article Light Rail
shell mean and electrified rail service
that operates in urban environments and
completely exclusive rights of way in
exclusive Lanes of roadways and in some
cases in mixed traffic for purposes of
this article the term Light Rail also
includes stationed maintenance or repair
facilities operations centers Office
Buildings and parking facilities
relating to or supporting Light Rail the
town shall not spend or use its
resources including the use or
expenditure of money's accounts credit
facilities Vehicles Personnel equipment
buildings or any other thing of value of
the town for the furtherance of Light
Rail located within the jurisdiction of
the Town including but not limited to
feasibility study stations designs
inclusion in any Town transportation
plans or any other items peripherally
contributing to the furtherance of Light
Rail the town shall not assess a new tax
or fee for this purpose for the purposes
of or an aid of the design planning
construction operation or maintenance of
Light Rail within the jurisdiction of
the town this section shall not be
construed as a Prohibition of
participation by the town its employees
or its officials in state Regional or
local planning bodies committees or
boards that address or conduct business
pertaining to light rail no further
expenses other than those permitted by
this article shall be incurred by or on
behalf of the town without Express
Council approval which we've heard they
didn't want that section in their e
so we have a motion by councilmember Bon
Jovani
I'll second that you need to use your
mic please I'll second that thank you
thank you we have a second by council
member Torgeson
please vote
motion passes five
one one with five yes one no and one
abstain
the reason I voted against it is I would
prefer to do this all in one ordinance
and not do this in three I preferred to
table all three and work on one
final decision altogether to make it
easier for all of us to track into the
future for residents to know where to
look when they're looking for
information on this to make it easier
for our legal staff to have one
ordinance in place and not two or three
so that we know exactly what we're doing
I think it gets more difficult when you
try to pass more ordinances to do the
same exact job councilmember Anderson
I think you're you're in the right
direction there but I want to say
rip to light rail please pass that on
Light Rail never existed to begin with
it was a created topic for last year it
has never existed in Gilbert and so now
it's dead even though it never lived
I don't know what more to say about that
we will move on to our next item on the
agenda mayor if I can just jump in just
want to bring something to the council's
attention for future uh future Council
meetings we have a council has a policy
the policy on
I think it's the one dealing with
Council decorum but anyway it talks
about abstentions for councils and that
Council should not abstain from voting
except in cases where there's a conflict
just want to bring that up to the
council there were two different
abstentions just now it didn't change
the results but just want to bring that
to council you should you should not
abstain unless there's a conflict of
interest
thank you um I think it's the first time
I've seen abstentions on the diet since
I've been sitting here so thank you for
covering that um Chris and you're right
it would not have changed the outcome of
the vote but it isn't a practice that we
should get into we are up here to
represent the people and to make a
decision one way or the other so now we
will move on to item 16 which is the LDC
text Amendment
the LDC text Amendment
z22-18 conduct hearing and consider
adoption of an ordinance amending the
town of Gilbert Land Development code I
won't read the whole title vice mayor
would like a short presentation on this
Nic Ava coutro coming to the podium
thank you Ava open the public hearing
thank you Ava thank you mayor I think um
the only presentation I needed was we
made a change on the graphic and we um
well you made a change on the graphic
that we we discussed on um so we were
thinking if you could just show that and
then if there was any questions you
could go into more detail
thank you good evening mayor and Council
as noted tonight it's an amendment to
This Land Development code which is the
town zoning ordinance regarding adding
additional criteria and more descriptive
language this will help staff determine
front yards on individual Lots part of
that Amendment there is a graphic that
currently in our code and that's what's
before you on the screen
the named Lots flag lot interior corner
you could see a they have corresponding
numbers next to them designating front
sides and rear yards The Irregular lot
does not vice mayor tilkey brought this
to staff's attention and that it people
could perceive that as being an
unintentional error or an Omission it is
not the very last paragraph on this
graphic states that if you believe you
have an irregular lot to contact the
planning department for the setback
determination so in order to tie that
language to the interior a lot we've
added an asterisk on the interior lot
and one next to that language so
everybody who has an inter a regular lot
and is looking for their Frontage we'll
see that they are supposed to contact
the planning department
to follow up with that Ava yes where
would the front
setback be for that irregular lot that
we have depicted here
for this one depicted right here the
front would probably be where that
asterisk is where it borders the street
but not all a regular lots are in this
configuration directly across from that
between the flag lot and the interior
lot is another irregular lot and that
one it's not as obvious where the front
is
also when you look at the irregular lot
with the asterisk it's not clear where
the rear would be
there if the front was what it joins the
street you may have two rear Lots you
may have one very lot depending on the
configuration of the other Lots so
rather than putting the numbers on that
lot since there are so many different
configurations for an irregular lot we
just want to draw attention to the
language that that each is looked on as
a per lot basis and there's not a
typical irregular lot
thank you any comments or questions for
Ava if I um council member Kapowski Ava
could you go over the language changes
I just want to make sure that in that
with this change with the irregular lot
that our text changes within the code I
believe there were some changes related
to where the front door was facing and
that additions would be consistent with
and look like the same building could
you go over that a bit please
um certainly mayor council member
kaprowski when determining the front of
a lot these are the additional criteria
for an interior lot it would stay the
same and the majority of lots in the
town are interior Lots they're
rectangular in shape and only have one
side that joins a road that would be
your front but for Lots with multiple or
double Frontage we would base it on the
majority of the four criteria listed
here the front door what's depicted on
the Subdivision plat what's consistent
in harmony with the other Lots arounding
it and which street has the lower level
in the town street classification system
not all four would apply to every lot so
we would look at the majority of those
to help us determine the front yard and
particularly two and three because when
you use two and three you're not looking
at the lot by itself you're looking at
how it is in the subdivision and how it
coexists with the other Lots
with the language presented here in that
second bullet for a lot with double or
month or multiple frontages
would you say that that includes or is
inclusive of all other lots that were on
that diagram except for interior Lots
and some of the irregular Lots because
the irregular lot may only have blood
fronted but it might have multiple sides
or multiple Rears do we need to add that
language of The Irregular Lots in there
to just tie the the text of the diagram
together
I'm just looking at the other language
that we have here
whoops there we go
we believe staff did that that was
covered with the asterisk language again
since irregular Lots could have so many
configurations not to have more or less
a blanket statement about them but to
contact the planning department and
we'll look at each individually
and other comments or questions for Ava
thank you Ava
we don't have any slips to
ask to speak on this item so I will go
ahead and close the public hearing and
bring it back to the diocese
anyone like to make a motion
mirror make a motion to approve item
number 16. motion by vice mayor any
seconds
second by council member Torgeson please
vote
motion passes 7-0 thank you thank you to
the team for working on that item
getting it through Planning Commission
and bringing it to us here at the
council
next we have already handled our
boards and commissions issue so now
we're on to boards commissions and
committees any reports from Council
Liaisons
seeing none we have comments from
Town manager
nothing tonight mayor nothing okay how
about report from Council on current
events
blood drive tomorrow correct
Thursday Thursday
I already signed up we're ready to go
yeah at the um
uh Shakespeare room in the library
if you would like to register for that
blood drive you can visit
vitalent.org there were yesterday when I
looked
several appointments still available
it's a guilt town of Gilbert blood drive
being held at Southeast Regional Library
you may need to put in the code location
of Gilbert and code it is posted on
social media and on our website if you
need any further details council member
kubrowski do you want to mention the
symphony
thank you so much the Gilbert Symphony
has been renewed and is going to have
their first of a series of concerts this
year it will be held this Sunday at the
Higley Center for Performing Arts from 3
P.M to 5 p.m it's free general admission
so I hope you can all attend and tell
your friends and neighbors the website
if you want more information is
gilbertsymphony.org otherwise you can
just show up at the Higley Center for
Performing Arts at 3 pm on Sunday March
12th there are some sponsorships
available but we have been very
fortunate that several community members
have stepped up to provide sufficient
donations to cover the first concert
thank you thanks council member
um we have applications open right now
any any other comments sorry I just
jumped into mine because I didn't see
anybody else
um we have applications open for
Gilbert's Student Government day any
high school student in the town of
Gilbert whether you go to a district
school private school charter school or
you're homeschooled you are welcome to
apply Gilbert Student Government day
will be held on April 12th and the
applications are open until March 15th
at 6 PM please visit Gilbert az.gov
forward slash
SGD for Student Government day and I
just wanted to mention that we had a
wonderful weekend two Galas back to back
celebrating the House of Refuge on
Friday night with an amazing Gala and
people opened their hearts and wallets
big time for House of Refuge they are a
partner with the town of Gilbert to
serve our residents and then Saturday
night our favorite annual celebration at
HD South we all got dressed up in read
and attended to participate in their
annual fundraiser and something that I
look forward to every year I hope that
they raised a ton of money now I need to
recess our regular meeting and can I get
a motion to recess this meeting
so moved second
I have a motion by councilmember tilkey
and a second by councilmember Anderson
please vote
motion passes 7-0 we will see you all in
April thank you very much we will be
moving into executive session