Study Session - 8/1/2023 5:00:00 PM

good evening welcome to the Gilbert
Council study session for August first
2023 we'll go ahead and call this
meeting to order
it says roll call but we don't typically
do a roll call for study session do we
that's correct me we're just trying to
be consistent on our language
agenda items one it the first agenda
item is the discussion and presentation
on updated Financial policies and I see
Kelly fost making her way to the podium
good evening Kelly
hello mayor council welcome back from
July
we have just some light Financial policy
things to kick us off tonight I know you
love deep reading so we'll try and keep
it very uh high level and good
information but we do need your feedback
on some items so
we are talking Financial policies
tonight generally they're updated
they're reviewed annually and updated as
needed
on May 8 2023 Council had a special
meeting with Town attorney and staff to
talk through a whole bunch of Standalone
policies many of those were repealed
Council gave direction that night that
two of those policies the council
support costs and the appraisal policies
should be repealed to Standalone and
added to financial policies so we're
talking about adding those here and this
study session is to be able to talk
about those changes any of the updates
and some additional just regular policy
changes and updates that are suggested
get your feedback that we've captured
everything and then we'll bring it to
you in a regular meeting
so I'll quickly go through there's five
slides of some recommended changes the
first one are the council support costs
so this used to be a standalone policy
and now it's included in section number
three of the financial policies uh that
are recommended before you there's a at
your dice you've got a copy of the red
line version so you can see the specific
changes
it is updated to include a town issued
cell phone and then we recommend
removing the language with the option
for the 100 monthly stipend for elected
officials to be able to use their own
phone that's mostly coming due to
security concerns
and then better compliance with public
records requests but that is a change we
want to make sure that you are aware of
that recommendation uncomfortable with
that moving forward or want to discuss
that
the second area of change is the
appraisal for purchase and sale of real
property this is again a council policy
that was repealed as a standalone it's
been added as section number 20 in the
updated Financial policies and then with
the updates we are recommending
switching the threshold to ten thousand
from ten thousand dollars to twenty five
thousand dollars we're just trying to
keep it a de minimis amount that does
not have to have an appraisal because
the appraisal can be more expensive than
actually the property is worth and since
there's been inflation The increased
value of property we feel like the 25
000 is a better threshold moving forward
to still meet that de minimis amount and
be below the cost of having an appraisal
the third area of recommend changes are
the contingency and budget adjustment
approvals the thresholds currently are
twenty five thousand and fifty thousand
at budget director and town manager
level we would recommend moving those up
to fifty thousand and a hundred thousand
that would also need a change with the
inner fund loan and the economic
development Reserve expenditure
thresholds they're at fifty thousand to
match the town manager limit so we would
recommend those also change it to a
hundred thousand just to keep that
consistency a lot of this is due to
inflation five thousand dollars is not
what it used to be and these have been
in place at least since 2008 or before
so just looking to stay on top of that
the new thresholds would also better
align with the town manager Authority
that already allows him to sign
contracts up to a hundred thousand
dollars so just keeping everything
consistent across the board there
the next area is on the repair and
replacement funding which is section
number six the information technology
equipment was streamlined to provide
similar information as the other
sections this section had a lot of
detail about what specific equipment
would have what specific useful life and
we recommend taking that out and leaving
that at the discretion of the chief
technology officer based on the best
practices and Industry standards rather
than spelling them out in the policy
the last areas on grants it's section 25
and Department director approval right
now for Grants 25 000 and Below we would
recommend increasing that threshold up
to a hundred thousand this would not
include any grants that have Federal
funding or have ongoing costs they have
FTE involved or other costs that the
town would incor on an ongoing basis
those would still have to come back to
town Council regardless of the dollar
amount of the grants but this would
allow to reduce the administrative
burden and make it a little bit easier
for departments to get some of those
smaller grants as always spending over a
hundred thousand changes in that would
have to come back to council
that is all of the changes that are
recommended here a few clerical things
throughout the document so we wanted to
get any feedback or instruction from you
tonight and then we'll take that
feedback instruction modify the
documents as needed and bring them to
you at the council meeting on September
19th
thanks Kelly any comments or questions
for Kelly at this time
yeah vice mayor thank you mayor um
Kelly from the presentation it appears
that you captured everything that we
talked about in our other meeting I'm
just going to need a little time to
actually find the language and read
through it but um
mayor I'm assuming that if we find
something that needs to be that we have
a question about or perhaps be changed
that will be included in what will come
forward the next time is that right yep
if you just reach out to me if you find
something um then we can take a look at
that okay thank you so much
thanks for the clarification vice mayor
the only thing and I just lost it I had
it a moment ago
um
it's under the console support costs I
still think I saw something about yep
use of a pull vehicle for local or out
of area travel do we actually have pool
Vehicles because I've never been told
that we've had a pool that we have pool
vehicles I had the same question from
our internal work group and I did double
check there are two cool vehicles at
Muni one and if counselor is interested
in checking those out you can just work
with Monica or with Rob Bohr and we can
get you scheduled to be able to have
that vehicle at your use
it's like a unicorn I didn't think it
existed
um are they actually drivable Vehicles
because the last one I rode in was
several years ago and I don't think it
was really should have been on the road
I'm just saying
um perfect thank you for that answer
Kelly I had a couple others under
um
Council support but I want to read it
like the vice mayor mentioned and be
able to get back to you if something
jumps out thanks so much any other
comments or questions for Kelly at this
time
seeing none thanks Kelly thanks for the
update
next we have item number two discussion
on further defining conflict of
interests for public body members
related to conducting business with the
town
I don't know who's taking this
fellow council members um some of you
may be aware
that I was professionally trained as a
social worker
I hold a master's degree in social work
and a master's in business which makes
me look at ethics more black and white
than others
as a business person I understand making
money and following rules that are set
up to protect both business and
Community to begin with
as a social worker
I believe that you have to blame the
system
before you blame the person
if there are faults in the system they
need to be repaired if after the repair
of the system if the behavior continues
then it's time to blame the person
our state and town policies have
loopholes to create situations where a
council member can follow the rules do
everything the state statutes require
receive a contract in the town and still
have the appearance of impropriety this
is wrong
I don't ever want to see someone who
follows the rules be questioned
with that said
I believe the town of Gilbert's policy
on this needs to be stronger
than the state so these things can't
happen
the only way I believe this can happen
is if we develop language that states
set a sitting council member who owns
more than 20 percent of a business
cannot do business directly with the
town
I believe there should be some
discussions on subcontracting
to maybe make that allowable but I'm
interested in hearing from my fellow
council members their opinions on it
mayor council
several years ago a resident was very
adamant that I was gaming the system in
Gilbert to to profit from it I know
Patrick remembers it well because she
went up into HR and raised holy hell
over me
uh the fact of the matter is is I I'm
not in the business she thought I was in
I it's not something I did and at this
point I don't even uh
uh I I just don't do business with the
town because so it was a position where
I could do it I suppose and it looked
bad and having done it I would have of
course been subject to disclosure and
those kind of things but
the Optics of it need to be as such that
there's so much transparency that you
can't be almost there's so much
transparency you cannot be accused of
doing something uh improperly with with
no uh uh regarded for self-service
again I don't do business with the town
at this point because it would look
horrible and it's small business and I
could probably save the town money and
all those great things but it looks
terrible and that the people when they
get riled up about something like this
it's a big hammer and I'd like that to
be something that we don't there's a
some sort of policy and code Beyond a
certain level disclosure that would give
people the confidence that there is no
self-dealing there is no self-interest
from somebody uh without complete
transparency it's not to be a a
punitive per se but it does need to be
something where the people of this town
feel no trust
that their elected officials aren't
self-dealing in some way whether they're
right or wrong and feeling that isn't
the point the point is that it's an
option that they have and I'd like to
take I'd like to shine a light there so
that that accusation doesn't go further
than one person speaking so I don't know
how to to
say that in a clearer fashion than
having how to sit and reflect on
something and realize that I was accused
of something and I didn't even produce
anything and I was accused of it I was
accused of
helping steer policy
I don't want somebody to experience
something for no good reason and I think
that also the people of this town
deserve to have so much transparency
that their confidence is built in the
people that represent them so I I don't
have a lot of thought as to the
codification of it the wording of it but
there needs to be something that is that
is substantial enough that it it does
create trust in that area so Chris and I
have talked a tiny bit about it I don't
have the words for it I don't have the
the legal terms for it but the the goal
would be without being punitive
to offer that so that people don't think
people trust and if they find something
that they think is beyond that level
that there is a mechanism to deal with
it and I kind of want to leave it at
that because I I really don't think that
there's a necessity for for digging much
farther than what what Chuck spoke about
councilmember Anderson
a quick question in your discussion are
we talking about just Council or are we
talking about our boards and commissions
also
I think we should maybe start with
Council and then take a look at boards
and commissions at a later date
okay
I might suggest if there's any interest
I've had some other requests
given to me to reconvene our
subcommittee on ethics
and this might fit well with that our
discussion about what kind of language
we could put into that
councilmember Buckley
I I don't have a lot to say on this
because I'm not a policy maker the the
one thing that appears to me is
currently there's there is nothing wrong
with
um
any council member doing
business with the town in a certain way
I I do feel that it's kind of a conflict
of interest and that we should somehow
tighten that up
and uh you know maybe make it where it's
not as uh you know the the emperor
priority if if that's the right word to
use uh but that's about all I have
because I'm not a policy maker but I do
think that we can look at this policy
and and make it better
vice mayor thank you mayor um
I I don't have a problem looking at this
because
we'll have to develop some language the
conversation that we've had so far
doesn't really give staff or even the
Ethics Committee if they're going to get
back together again any clear Direction
on what we're trying to achieve here
State Statute does
acknowledge that anytime you're an
elected official there's going to be
some sort of conflict of interest and
just because you're involved in so many
different things and you're going to
have to make policies so I think that
it's written that way to make sure that
there is transparency in the way that
you disclose it and and different
Avenues of making sure that it's
transparent that's the current policy
um
if we're looking at
um
extending that to be a little more
um
I guess direct towards council members
and
the transparency of that
then we have to be very careful at how
you're going toward that because the
devil's in the details and at the end of
the day I I've been involved in writing
lots of policy over the years and you
really have to be looking at what are
the unintended consequences
if you right it wrong I'm not saying we
shouldn't write it I'm just saying we
have to be very cautious on that so
I think that for us to move this forward
maybe we need a little more Direction on
what you want us to look at
before we can look at it if you want to
send it to the ethics subcommittee or
you want to have another subcommittee
um
we did
based on what we just said
I'll say I'll just use the attorney I'm
assuming he's going to write it that he
he doesn't have enough direction to
write something at this point so I think
the reason we're all talking today is to
give clear Direction
mayor council I would think reconvening
the subcommittee to discuss some
language uh and then bring that back in
a study session to the whole uh would
probably be a better way to approach it
and that way it wouldn't be uh
just hanging out there it was just
something we could resolve uh we could
come up we could come up with the idea
that there's nothing that we really can
do and that's that's an option too
but it's something maybe if we sat down
discussed it and said this is what we're
trying to achieve uh what can we how can
we do this in a way without you know too
many unintended consequences because
nobody likes those uh I I would think
that taking some time and taking the
subcommittee discussing that and coming
up with some language on our own with
Chris like we did with the the general
uh ethics subcommittee would be a good
idea
councilman Giovanni I'm in Support also
bringing it back to the Ethics Committee
I just want to bring up one more point
and that is again appearance
um rural State you have to recuse
yourself of a vote which is cool I mean
that's that's being done
um
you recuse yourself from a vote
it gets passed you receive the contract
but yet you're also voting for the
budget
there's a problem there I see to because
what you're voting on is actually paying
you
so I would hate to see someone if we
write it wrong
recuse himself but also then at that
point recuse himself from the actual
budget vote also because to me there's
no getting around that because you're
voting on something that is paying you
thank you mayor I'm fully supportive of
continuous Improvement and re-looking at
certain policies
I know that many of us have received
training from the league of cities and
towns and I think that body may have an
interest in
looking at
the same policies or educational
materials that may support the greater
transparency that's being sought so I'd
potentially look to reach out to them to
see if they have any interest in
enhancing their educational materials
and I I agree with
um that we that we currently have
certain measures of transparency and
public reporting but we could certainly
introduce and look at what other
agencies if they have more stringent
disclosure forms or policies and how
those are used
in this conversation today most of the
conversation has been around Financial
interests but there's a lot of other
potential conflicts of interest that I
think would be valuable to look at it
holistically
as well
any other comments
great comments I would say that it's
always good to look at the policies that
we have in place first study session it
it would have been helpful to ask staff
to maybe do some of this beforehand and
bring it to us so that we could
potentially look at I have no idea what
the state statute is on this I have no
idea what our current code says on this
and would be for me it would be a lot
easier at the study session to be able
to look at that first I might have
looked at it today and said I really
don't think that we need to move it back
to the subcommittee based on what's here
but for the future that would be I think
would be a lot easier that's the purpose
of a study session is to be able to come
and discuss it I would be concerned with
rolling this over to our boards and
commissions especially as we're seeding
the new Public Works board I think we
would find that we would get into a lot
of areas that I mean just looking at the
applicants as I did there are companies
that do business in the town of Gilbert
and
um I think we could really find
ourselves limiting our pull of
candidates for boards and commissions
and limiting the pool of candidates for
future Council seats if we get too
strict on this so I think there's a
point of being careful and transparent
but there's a point of maybe going too
far so just to be careful I love the
idea councilmember Anderson of bringing
it back to the subcommittee if you'd
like to take that on to bring that back
great idea
yes thanks mayor thanks mayor if if I
could just restate some of the comments
that I heard that if we're going to take
it back to a committee I want to make
sure I didn't miss any
um
we're looking at Council only
potentially a 20 ownership of a business
um
recusing themselves from a but from
budget and contract votes
check Arizona League policies and or
education materials see if they have
anything to assist or in the future
educate future other communities
look at other municipalities and
agencies to see what they're using for
their transparency documentation and
processes and then to not
just focus on Financial
contracts but also there may be other
types of conflicts of interest that we
may want to explore
did I miss anything yeah I'd like to add
again looking at rules for directly
getting contracts and maybe a little
different rules for subcontracting okay
Contracting versus subcontracting okay
I'm a little
I I see Contracting a little bit more
issue directly than subcontracting thank
you I would just say as the transparency
mine would probably be want some sort of
focus on disclosure because again
somebody can do something totally right
as Chuck said yet it's not
quite as disclosed as the the general
public would expect
and so you eliminate problems and this
is about eliminating a problem of
perception it's not about anything but
that really
so I don't want to ever have somebody
say oh you you know you decided to do
something made three thousand dollars
and this will be like oh seriously
but if it's if there's a complete
transparency it won't exist
thank you
Council memory Anderson do you have
another comment I just wanted to ask uh
Chris if
you got all this and are you comfortable
with what we're
talking about here
mayor council member Anderson yes I
think we've got the direction we'll
reconvene the subcommittee and you know
get some of the work done beforehand but
I think there's going to be some big
discussions and the the difficulty and
the challenge will be vetting out
whatever rules that are being
recommended to make sure there aren't
unintended consequences understanding
that anything that we're doing now goes
above what's required by law which
certainly the council has the ability to
adopt a policy that's more stringent
than what state law requires but
understanding that and the flip side is
understanding what the penalty would be
Council doesn't have the ability or as
everyone knows we're General lot town
and so it may be best to be in the
ethics policy because there's not a
whole lot other than if it's a contract
invalidating the contract there's not a
whole lot the council could do if
someone violates the policy absent
incorporating something into the ethics
code but understanding the new ethics
policy that was just adopted as its
currently States a conflict of interest
allegation
under the new ethics policy that goes
directly to the attorney general and it
is not an Ethics policy under our code
so there's going to you know if that's
where the council or subcommittee wants
to go there's going to be a lot of
reworking of the new ethics policy and
trying to figure out how that would fit
in
my guess is we get into this a little
bit more we're going to find most other
communities just refer to the state law
and that's it
yes
I think you might be correct
councilmember Anderson and um but that's
the beauty of having a subcommittee that
will look at this and then bring it back
to the council in the future any other
comments
and thank you for turning your mic on
first it makes it much easier for me to
recognize that somebody wants to speak
thank you we've had about five weeks off
so it's nice to be back and be able to
look at that um and I might forget
people's names tonight since it's been
five weeks off just saying I will go
ahead and adjourn the study session and
we will be moving into an executive
session