Study Session - 2/20/2024 4:00:00 PM

Commission to order February 20th, 2024.
And we have two items on our agenda this
evening. Discussion on possible changes
related to the code of ethics policy and
complaint process and discussion on
possible changes related to policies of
reasonable excuse me reasonable
responsible financial management. First
up is code of ethics. Who's kicking
things
off? Might be unre might be unreasonable
or reasonable.
Who's kicking things off? Vice Mayor.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you, Mayor. I'll be brief. Uh we
had originally gone into our meeting
this last time intending to
uh include some language that would
would create a firewall so that the
ethics complaints couldn't be filed
quite as easily as uh they were in the
past. That we had a lot of well, we all
are aware of what's happened in the
past. So, we were trying to uh make that
process work a little bit better. But in
our
discussions, we uh looked at a lot of uh
the information that's already included
by the the U attorney general in their
language. And most of the cities around
us have not adopted a uh code of ethics.
they just refer all ethics complaints to
the attorney general and let them uh
determine whether or not there's been a
violation. So, our discussion centered
on that and we uh ultimately are
recommending to the council that we
repeal the entire code of ethics and
just keep the code of conduct.
Seriously. Seriously.
I don't know. This might have some more
to add to it. Chris, do you have any
official language that you'd like to add
to that or comments?
Um, Mayor Peterson, Council, that was
that was the discussion and and Vice
Mayor Anderson um that was discussion
the subcommittee had and and their
recommendation and obviously wanted to
bring it back to the council for for
further discussion and potential
consideration. Uh, one thing to keep in
mind is that, you know, the attorney
general's office in the state has a set
of rules that govern all elected and
appointed officials. Um, but those rules
like conflicts of interest and public
records and open meetings laws don't
cover every component of what could be
considered ethical behavior. But the
council did adopt back when these
changes were made in
June. Yeah. And then with an effective
date, I think it was 60 days later, um,
if you recall, the council adopted an
ethics handbook as well as a code of
conduct. And that code of conduct
contains the same, um, it's actually
much more detailed of what the
expectations are for the council for
council elected and appointed behavior
in the town of Gilbert. And there's a
process under that code of conduct for
um, complaints to be filed. It's very
limited. they could only be filed by
council members, um, elected and appoint
officials and staff members. So, not not
as broad as the ethics handbook.
So, from a legal standpoint, the council
that code of conduct would is still in
place and would still be in place and
that wasn't a recommendation from the
subcommittee to repeal that. Um, if
council did want to consider repealing
the ethics handbook, you could make some
changes into the code of conduct to add
the penalties that are in the code of in
the ethics handbook, you could move them
into the code of conduct. So there would
be some type of recourse or teeth to
enforce the code of conduct. If we
recall the code of conduct, it's it sets
forth all the expectations that you
have. It's, you know, elected officials,
appointed officials, conduct with staff
members, with residents, with each
other. It's all those different
categories. And then at the end, it
says, hey, if if there's been a
violation of more than I think it's um
three or more violations of any
particular code of conduct in a
six-month period, it reads that a
council member can then file a complaint
or staff member can as well. And what it
does right now is it refers to the
ethics handbook for actual investigation
and then potential discipline. So, if
the council did want to consider
rescending the ethics handbook, then
what you could do is make a change of
code of conduct and take the
investigation and penalty portion and
just put it into the code of conduct.
And that would sit there and still allow
the ability of of staff members and
elected and appointed officials in
Gilbert to hold each other accountable
for things that aren't violations of
state law, but are are still rising to
the level of ethics concerns and the way
you're interacting with members of the
public or whatever other concerns there
are.
Questions? Council member Buckley. Uh,
so so are are you saying that the public
canop sorry uh can you hear me now?
Yeah, thank you. Uh, so are you saying
that a council member I mean a a a
resident can no longer file an ethics
complaint
[Music]
or that's one question. I've got a
couple. So to answer that question, if
the ethics handbook was
rescended, then correct, a resident
could not file an ethics complaint
against an elected official or appointed
official. But what they could do is
under the code of conduct, they could go
to one of their elected officials and
say, "This is what happened." And then
lobby them to file a complaint on their
behalf. Um, some cities that have ethics
codes, very few have very broad where
anyone can file for any reason like
Gilbert. A number of cities that do have
ethics ethics guidelines in place. They
require a an ethics code to actually be
vi filed by an elected or appointed
official only. So, the recourse would be
to go to one of you and say, "Here's
what happened. Will you file a complaint
on my behalf?" Okay. So that that does
to me that doesn't sound like that would
go over very well with the public to
turn around and say, "Hey, you no longer
can file an ethics complaint." U you
have to come to a council member and we
we I think we've already had that issue
where they say, "Well, you guys protect
each other anyway."
So my question is what was so bad in our
original
ethics documents that we had to change
everything. Can we I mean it's I don't
know what and you you probably would
know more. I I can simply say the
process doesn't work. Period. It doesn't
work. Okay. Nothing about the process
works including the advice from the town
attorney. As far as I'm concerned, we
haven't I don't think we've gotten great
evaluations from the from some of the
investigators that we've hired. I don't
think that the process has worked.
Council member Toruson recommended doing
a mediator. That came up in the last
update. That didn't work. That failed. I
mean, I'm talking about the original
one, not the one that we either neither
one of us. It's barely different. The
old one and the new one are are barely
different. Added in the mediation
portion of it. um there wasn't much
change and I don't think either process
works and I don't know how to make it
better. I would have I mean but but to
resin the whole thing is going to cause
a oh I think it'll be a word major
uproar an storm
because I won't say the word with our
residents. I don't they're they're gonna
just go ballistic. Yeah. Council member
Torres, the I believe the point is is if
there was something that was actually
unethical, they're still able to follow
with the AG or the county attorney. Am I
correct?
I don't think so. Council member Torson,
if it's something that's illegal, yes.
But the the state laws dealing with what
is and what is not illegal when it comes
to public
officials is different than ethical. So,
you could do something that's unethical
but legal. and the the attorney
general's office or the Maropa County
Attorney's Office would say, "We don't
have jurisdiction here because it's an
ethical issue, not a legal issue." I
dare say we've not been able to find
something unethical the way it's written
anyhow. So, what the change would be is
that it at least creates some bar for
legality purposes. Uh but having to have
at least someone or two people say,
"Hey, this is worth looking at." It's
what the whole concept of changing was
to prevent it from being sport which it
had become sport before that just became
sport. Uh to not change it leaves it
sport and leaves us spending $100,000
for nothing that none of us are
satisfied with. No one is satisfied with
anything including the people filing it.
Um, my question is how do the cities or
towns that use the process of going to
exec session to discuss these items, how
do they how are they able to use the
exec session process to go in and decide
that? Because even what council member
Toruson just said, if a couple people
want to come in and discuss something, I
brought an issue to you last year that
we couldn't discuss an exact session.
I'm just going to use that as an
example. Um, how did they get to go?
There's an article in today's paper that
a Fountain Hills council member has six
ethics complaints and when they get
their response from the outside
investigator, they're taking it to exact
session. How do they get to go and talk
about these things in exact session when
we haven't found a mechanism to do so?
Mayor, that's something we can look
into. I saw that article and I had the
same question is because the exec
session statute, as you're aware, has
nine exceptions, right? And from our
view and from me speaking with other
city attorneys, we don't think the the
only one that I think could apply is the
first one, but it's dealing with
promotion, demotion, dismissal of public
officials. And in in my view and and the
other cities that I've talked to says
with elected officials, you can't you
don't promote, you don't demote, you
don't dismiss elected officials, right?
You're subject to the citizens and the
citizens only. So, that's something I
will look into because I'm not sure. I
don't know if it was misreported or they
actually do that. Yeah, I know that city
of Glendale goes into exact session. It
can only be I believe it can be filed by
an other by an elected official, but it
has to go through the mayor and they
take it to an exact session to discuss
and I will look into that and I can get
back to you on that.
Yeah. Any other comments or questions? I
mean, I hear the recommendation from the
subcommittee is
to just get rid of the whole thing.
Well, not all of it. The code of conduct
stays in, but get rid of the ethics
complaint. Ethics complaint I'm
concerned about. And the ethics
complaints for just the sheer number of
them just really bothers me. Takes our
time away from other things. and the
um
having the citizens not be able to
unless they're sponsored by a council
member to bring a complaint that is
going to serve to help us uh limit the
number of those especially the frivolous
ones that are I don't like what that
council member is wearing tonight. I'm
going to file an ethics complaint.
Well, that's ex that's the
example. Uh you know, you're wearing the
wrong thing. So, I'm going to file a
complaint of some kind. We want to limit
those and they need to be sponsored
through a council member. And the idea
that we protect one another, I don't I
don't know. This group definitely
doesn't protect one another, but they do
attack each other. And so, if it's it's
a fact of bringing it to somebody that
will file the ethics complaint, I think
that that opens a bigger door.
To that point though, I think that that
person's uh credibility with the other
six members would soon be pretty pretty
eroded if it was like, "Okay, Jim, I
need you to file against Bridget today.
I need you to f" and all these, "All
right, one after the other. Let's go."
And it's pretty soon everybody's going
to look, Jim, are you an idiot? And it's
going to be like, "Well, yeah, I'm an
idiot because I filed, you know, 12
ethics complaints for no good reason." I
think that nobody would be willing
to attack a a sitting person without
something worthwhile. I mean, as you're
looking at each other, you got to sit
next to each other at some point. You
have to go, that's not really rising to
the level of that. And I I just don't
think that it would I think that it
would at least create a barrier to entry
because we have none. right now.
Literally tonight, somebody could file
Bridget was not wearing orange and it
could just boom the way we've got it
goes right up and we go spend four,
five, $6 thousand on it.
Council member Bonjivani. Thank you,
Mayor. I see what we're trying to do.
So, what if rather than having someone
approach one council member, have it
where they have to approach three and
only
three and see if they can get those
three to buy in on the issue. They go to
a fourth, they're done. Because then
they would have to prove their point or
show their concern to three out of three
and get all three of them to say, you
know what, that's something worth
looking into.
Well,
Council member Bucky followup. Yeah, I I
don't really like that particular
scenario mostly
because we're we're do I don't like this
three and three thing anyway myself. Um,
and we've already had some issues with
that
because we just have and I can see
somebody picking who would pick the
three people and maybe a resident knows
that three people support them so
they're going to say I want to have
something with these three that I I just
don't you know and it's a great
suggestion but I just don't think
that'll work. Council member Kapowski.
And I would just add that while on
council we may be bound by the limit of
three, a citizen has the right to reach
out to each of us. And so I think it
would be up to them to reach out to as
many of us as they want to explain the
situation and one or more of us could
determine whether we want to move
forward with action. Um and in in the
end, even if one or more wanted to move
forward with action and in order to
expend a certain level of funding to
move into investigation, I believe we
would have to go into a vote where at
least four of us would vote to move
forward. Do you agree with that
process that that would be what would
happen?
Mayor Peterson, Council Member Tilk is
also online. I was literally just going
to ask you that a second ago. Um,
Council Member Tilki, do you have any
comments on this?
I do. Can you hear me? Okay. Oh, boy.
Can we hear you? Oh, good. We need to
turn it down just a little. Okay. Sorry.
I thought because I can hear Chris
perfectly and I only hear about half of
what you guys are saying. So, um anyway,
I I just wanted to share a little
insight of kind of how we got here and
why we're um recommending this. Um you
know, the initial ethics um policy
really was brought forward many years
ago to try to um regulate some
questionable bill behavior on council.
And I think it really if you dug down
deep enough it was open meeting law
violations and sharing some confidential
information. And so they wanted to make
sure that we had this ethical standard
for our council over time. um what we've
seen in the last um three three and a
half years, at least since I've been on
council, that this this um mechanism is
being used to try to change behavior
that doesn't rise to the level of what
you would um classify as ethical
violations. And I think because of that
we have spent a lot of money
investigating them and when the
investigation comes back because they
are literally looking at the legal
definition and what the behavior was and
we're coming back with um results that
very nobody's been happy with. the
person who complained, the person who
was complained against. Um and and
that's what's um elevated this to where
we wanted
to look at what could we do to make sure
that people were heard and that they
felt that if they had a complaint
against a council member, they would be
able to share that and know that action
was going to be taken. Now, I will tell
you that we spent an exhaustive amount
of time. Um, Chris is tired. Chris and
Shabelli are tired of seeing me on this
on this because we went through it line
by line trying to figure out how could
we address a a citizen's concern without
spending tens of thousands of dollars on
investigations. And what even what we
heard from you on the dis when we looked
at it was a lot of this could be handled
if we could get people in the room and
talk and see if we could at least solve
that before it went to an investigation.
So that was the new process.
We've had one allegation go through the
entire process and what we found again
that there wasn't um a willingness to
solve it at that one- on-one or they
weren't in the same room but during
mediation and we had to pay for the
investigation anyway. again it came back
and nobody on the dis was happy with the
results of it because we are ve it's
very clear that they're only judging it
against the um ethics
violation. When we did the update on the
ethics policy,
we in tandem created the code of conduct
and
um expanded that to include
um steps that would still allow um
outside of this ethics complaint. As
Chris mentioned very clearly, there is a
whole list of the way that a a council
member or a commissioner should behave.
there is an avenue that if somebody is
I'll just say misbehaving then they if
if a resident complained to a council
member or a council member or a staff
member contacted Patrick that council
member is brought in with the mayor or
the vice mayor and they sit down they
talk about that behavior and they try to
make corrections from the get-go in the
in the um in the code of conduct and
Chris I don't have it in front of me but
I think it's the third time that
you are somebody complains about the
same behavior within a certain amount of
time that triggers this coming to the
council to be investigated just like an
ethics complaint. So what we're doing
here is we are trying to get to the the
root of the
problem. Understand that there is a
behavioral issue that could get to the
ethics level. We try to correct
behavior and if it isn't corrected then
it comes to the council. It's very
public again. they're the council will
make a decision whether it needs to go
out into investigation, if there's
penalties, all of that can be um
completed under the code of conduct. I'm
going to put a caveat there because I
know Chris is going to jump in that we
would have to um if we revoke the ethics
com uh policy as is today those
penalties and that next step to the um
investigation needs to move over into
the code of conduct because right now we
refer to the ethics um policy.
So, I understand the concern that um the
public may think that we're taking away
an
opportunity. Um but what we found is a
lot of these were frivolous. They may
not have been frivolous in the mind of
the person who was upset, but they were
frivolous at the end of the day when we
c when we compared their complaint to
the actual ethics policy. And what we're
trying to do is correct behavior and do
it in such a way that we're not spending
tens and thousands of dollars before we
have an opportunity to correct the
behavior. So with that, um, I'll be
quiet and, um, answer any questions you
may have, any questions that you might
have. And please speak into the mic so
that Council Member Tolki can hear you.
Council member Buckley. Uh, so I I have
a question in regards to the town paying
the attorney fees for the person filing
the ethics
complaint. Is is there a way that we can
do we have to or we Okay. So, we're
obligated to pay their attorney fees.
There's no getting out of that. It's our
process. I I think it's because it's our
process that they're following that we
are responsible to pay for those fees
and we wouldn't be able to go back and
ask for them. We can't do that in
litigation either and go back and ask
for those fees. Am I correct on that?
Yes. I I mean, we could build in
something saying that they're
responsible, but I think it would be a
pretty high bar for anyone and the
difficulty would be enforcing that. If
we're selecting the outside investigator
and someone refuses to pay, we still
have to pay the bill and then there'd be
collections issues. It'd be really
difficult to enforce if if we did do
that. Yeah. I just thought some
sometimes when people know they have no
obligation for filing something, they
can just file it and they don't have to
hire an attorney. They don't have to do
anything other than show up and see the
town's attorney attorney. And and and to
that point, Council Member Buckley, a
couple things. one to just to reiterate
what council member Tilki talked about
is the current code of conduct says that
a staff member or council member um
could file a code of conduct complaint
and if it's more than two instances of
the same bad behavior within 180 days
right now it then converts into uh a
code of ethics process and that could be
changed to make it a code of conduct
process where there's an invest
investigation and that and the potential
penalties. And then to the point that
you just made, Council Member Buckley,
in litigation, we use mediation a lot
and it's it's often successful. Um, but
the point that you just made, a
successful mediation requires two
parties who are willing to compromise
and even if they're not going to get all
they want. And typically in mediation,
sometimes it's voluntary mediation and
sometimes it's court ordered, that both
parties have some type of skin in the
game. If you're the plaintiff and say
you're suing the town because you got
hit by a town vehicle and you're asking
for money for damages,
um you would like like that case to
settle because there's risk if you go
forward, you go to a jury, you may not
win. And even if you go to jury and win,
that may be two years from now. So a
plaintiff may be looking at a mediation
saying, "Well, I'm willing to take less
in settlement than what I think the
claim is worth because money in hand
today is worth something." So they have
something in the game, some risk if they
don't settle in a mediation. And the
same thing for the town as a defendant.
We have risk. We think we may have a
very good legal position. We may think
that the plaintiff's claim is just too
broad, but there's cost of defense
concerns. There's risk of the jury. So
the town, you know, has some some type
of desire and if you can, you know, good
mediation, you'll come to terms and
maybe meet somewhere on that scale. But
it takes two parties being willing to do
so. Two parties have to have skin in the
game. My my experience to have a
mediation that's successful.
Yeah, I I agree with you on that. Yeah.
Any other comments?
So, we'll need to know how to advise
staff to move forward if you would like
to repeal the ethic code of ethics, but
leave the code of conduct.
Um, we would need to put on that on a
future
agenda. Oh, it's on tonight. That's
right. I got it. Yeah. I was surprised
that it was added as an addendum
tonight's agenda because we were going
to be discussing this. Now, I'm not sure
that. So, mayor, just real to clarify,
if if that's the direction the council
wants to go, it could be rescended
tonight, but then the ethics handbook,
then we would come back with proposed
revisions to the code of conduct to take
the penalties and investigation portion
and build that into the code of conduct.
So, you could do it tonight. You could
push off if that's where council want to
go or not make any changes or make other
changes. Thank you. I completely forgot
that that was an
addendum.
Um, Vice Mayor, do you have a comment?
What we're basically doing, and tell me
if I'm wrong, Chris, is taking two
processes that could become confusing
which one you're going to follow
depending on who you are, putting it
into one handbook basically or one code
and rolling in those same penalties. So
everything's included in the code of
conduct that we would have had in the
ethics handbook anyway. And vice mayor,
to that point, as as I talked about
earlier, the code of conduct that the
council
adopted more specific with regard to
expected behavior um than the ethics
handbook. The ethics handbook has some
four categories that are broad, you
know, loyalty and that that kind of
stuff. the the ethics or the code of
conduct. And I I'll just read these
sections. It's got general duties, which
covers the same ethical requirements in
the ethics handbook. But then it gets
more specific. Elected appointed public
officials conduct with each other, your
conduct with town staff, your conduct
with public, your conduct with public
agencies, the town council conduct with
members of boards, commissions, and
committees, and then elected and appoint
officials conduct with the media. So it
gets much more specific than the ethics
handbook
does. Kowski. Chris, are you ready to
present the code of conduct to us this
evening in a presentation that would be
better understood by the public that may
be watching?
Um,
let me confirm with Shaveveli. We just
need to make sure that what's been
noticed would allow that. It looks
that's exactly what I just read. And it
says consideration, discussion, and
possible action on revision, amendment,
or repeal of the ethics handbook and or
the code of conduct.
Got it. Thank you. I didn't have that in
front of me. So to that point, yes, we
could talk about how they're duplicative
and how the ethical requirements for our
elected and appointed officials in the
ethics handbook, they're covered in the
code of conduct. We can talk about that.
What the
council, I would not recommend making
those changes to the code of conduct
tonight. If that's what the council
wants to do is rescend just because it's
it's there's going to be five or six
paragraphs and that's hard to do from
the dis. We want to make sure we get
that right. So, if the council's
ultimate decision was to move forward,
then we would bring the code of conduct,
the changes to a future date, but we
could have that discussion and I could
work between now and then to get that
ready. Yes. I think in order to discuss
this item tonight, I would ask that
there would be some information
presented regarding the overlap and what
is in the code of conduct that we would
be keeping. I think that's important in
the decision-making process.
Um, and then discussion of of what might
be added to that code of conduct if the
ethics handbook was repealed. Thank you,
Council Member Buckley. Uh, yeah, I I
agree with Council Member
Kopowski, I'm sorry. Uh, but I agree
with what she says. I would and that was
going to be my question. I was I I would
like to see something. I'd like to to
know before making
any decision big decision right now. I
still have grave concerns that the
public is not going to quite understand
this and think that we just took away
their right
to make a
complaint and and they they don't want I
don't I don't think and I don't know you
can mayor you can correct me on this but
I don't think that the the public wants
to to even deal with us. They want to
deal with an outside person, whether it
be a mediator, an attorney, or whatever.
Um, I don't know. I But I I I agree that
I need more information on this to to
really feel like I'm can make an
informed decision.
Any other comments?
Yeah, I I think that I would need some
more information. I have to digest this
before I would even want to vote on this
tonight. My opinion, I think that I was
kind of surprised that it was an
addendum and then I forgot about it.
Um because we were doing this as a study
session tonight, I thought that we would
need more time
to evaluate, discuss, or comprehend what
exactly we're looking at by making this
change.
I think it's a big change to make and I
think there's going to be an
uproar and I think making it as an
addendum at the last second might not go
over so well.
Vice Mayor, that's probably not a bad
idea because the subcommittee we had the
chance to kind of study this and see how
it works and digest it and that's why
we're comfortable with it and you all
need that same opportunity. So I think
that's a good way to go.
I also think that I'd like to hear what
the other other cities are doing and if
they really are using exec session, how
are they doing it? Is it something that
is there something that we're missing in
this process? And um is there another
option before we just go ahead and get
rid of
it? So, we could always just table it
tonight if that if that's what comes up
later. But and that's my question for
direction from the council is if you
want to push this or at least have
further discussion and consideration
then maybe speaking about it tonight
isn't the right time. I could certainly
put something together if the council
would like or we could do that
additional research that we talked
about. Just let us know what that
direction is. Yeah.
Yes. Council member Kapowski. Mayor, I
would propose that the item that's
listed on tonight's agenda, item 21, um
this isn't an action, but that we end up
postponing it to a later date, but then
we need to decide what that later date
may be. And I would personally, if we
are going to move it to that later date,
I would be happy to give staff time to
propose the revisions to the code of
conduct so that we can digest that at
the same time and repeal the ethics
handbook while we also adopt the revised
code of conduct at the same time versus
having them be separate actions. Yeah,
thank you. I think that that's probably
a great idea. If we table something, I
think you were at student government the
the other day when I explained this. If
we table something, it's not we don't
have to set a date certain. If we
continue something, then we can set a
date certain. We only have one meeting
in March, I believe. So, we could even
just continue it to our first meeting in
April. That gives the whole month of
March. Chris, are you going on like a
three-week vacation for spring break or
anything? I'm just I'm just kidding. No,
I wish. But no. Yeah. Um, then we could
we that would be a possibility for
tonight. So, one question I have as well
is would the council want to bring it
back at a council meeting or an
additional study session? I think if if
it's you want to just to a council
meeting, is that you? Yeah, I I think
I'm comfortable with a council meeting.
If we get it ahead of time so that we
can take a look at it and then have time
to ask you questions. So, even in, you
know, a week ahead of time when we do
our normal packets, that would be fine
for me. And because I wasn't on the
subcommittee, um I might ask just for a
separate meeting prior to the council
meeting with staff um and any other
council member that wants to join me
under the limit. Um just to review those
changes so that we fully understand
those. Happy to do that. Yeah, that's a
possibility too. Small groups with you
or Chaveveli or you and Chaveveli to
cover the changes before the council
meeting. Small groups work.
Sorry. No, I I would like the same thing
because I before before it comes
through. Well, and and like vice mayor
just said, we weren't on the
subcommittee, so we didn't have the
opportunity to listen to all of this and
make these decisions and be comfortable
with it. So, yeah. Great. Okay. Thank
you. Thanks everybody. Thanks for the
work on the subcommittee. Now, we just
have one more item. It is Rob Bors
headed to the podium for discussion on
possible changes related to policies of
responsible financial management.
Okay. I thought he felt lonely out in
the field out in right field over there
by himself. My right field.
You're a tougher man.
Hi, Rob. Hello. Thanks, Mayor uh Mayor
and Council. Good evening. Rob Borg,
intergovernmental relations director. Uh
probably be a conversation that's a
little bit familiar to you. Um as we
look at the council support cost section
of the financial policies document. So,
if you'll remember back in September,
actually, you you this was brought to
you in a council meeting, the the entire
financial policies document. um you you
approved the majority of it, however,
held off on the council support cost
section uh for further discussion and
you did have further discussion at the
November retreat um and since then have
have shared additional feedback uh by
email as as we've shared revisions with
you. So, um we have made further
revisions to to this document. So, um
tonight I I know I shared the the full
document with you. Tonight we're going
to focus on um those council support
costs which which is really the the
piece of this that you haven't yet yet
approved. Um that then will be coming
back to you at the uh Tuesday, March 5th
council meeting for for approval,
assuming that the discussion
everything's good with the discussion
tonight and we're ready to to move
forward. So um thank you for your for
your feedback and and helping out with
with those revisions as well. Um, and
then finally, just, you know, before I
start going through through the policies
here, just kind of want to explain the
presentation. I did include the full
language um from each of the six
policies on the slides. Um, really just
as a benefit for the public who might be
watching as we kind of pick the
highlights or or maybe touch on a piece
of these so that they kind of know that
full policy that we're referring to. But
but we will or I will um tend to just
kind of focus on on some of the key
points with with each one. And then you
know as far as our role as staff, you
know, really just here to kind of guide
your your discussion. This is your
guys's um direction as far as what what
these policies should should include. So
any you know, we'll help guide through
the conversation and then help any
answer any questions that you might have
or clarify any of the information.
So, um, just as a refresher, the the six
pieces of the the council support costs
that are part of the policies include
employee benefits, transportation
support, communication support,
expenditure, reimbursement, and
purchasing cards, travel, training,
memberships, and should say, I'm sorry,
community events, and then office space.
So, um, first off, some of these I think
are going to be pretty pretty
straightforward and probably not not
require a lot of discussion. The first
one is, um, related to employee benefits
and and the policy simply states that
that you as mayor and council, um, are
able to enroll in the town health and
and dental benefit programs. And you're
also covered, excuse me, you're also
covered by the workers compensation
program for workrelated injuries. Um,
but then of course you're not eligible
for vacation, sick leave, holiday pay,
or other other
compensation. Um, transportation
support, one that's been a little
discussed a little bit more um in
previous previous meetings. Uh, but this
really is laying out the two choices
that you have for business related
travel and and reimbursement for that
travel. Um, as you know, the the um
first choice is to receive a monthly uh
travel stipen based on 300 miles of
transfer at the IRS rate for council or
600 miles at the IRS rate for for um
mayor. And then the second choice would
just be to uh submit logs of your
mileage uh actual mileage traveled for
for business related travel uh and then
get reimbursed based on on that mileage.
And this one does have a second slide.
This chart was actually uh included in
the uh financial policy document that
was shared with you. Um this is related
to one thing we wanted to touch on was
okay if you are receiving that that
mileage reimbursement. How does that
work with uh pool vehicles that may be
available because you know it might not
make sense for you to to be receiving
that that reimbursement and then using a
a town owned vehicle as well. So, this
chart provides kind of that guidance
that that you can use and we can also
use as staff and and re in um giving you
advice as far as when a pool vehicle can
or or cannot be
used. So, I guess before I move off to
transportation, I I can stop and just
see if there's any discussion or or
questions at this point. Mayor, I was
just going to ask that. Rob, do you want
to just go um slide by slide basically
or topic by topic? Council member
Bonjiovani. Thank you, Mayor. Hey, Rob.
Um, mileage reimbursement for travel
outside of Phoenix Metro. Does that
start the the mile you leave Phoenix
Metro?
You know, um, Hawin Oh, here comes
Hawin. I was going to say maybe maybe he
might be able to come. I know we have
defined that so he can clarify.
Yeah. Uh, thank you, council member. It
would be uh for destinations outside. So
if the destination were Tucson for a
conference, it would be the entire trip
from the closer of MUN 1 or your
residence to your destination. So that's
the intent. Thank you. Thanks. I didn't
even know that rule existed until we had
this discussion recently. The only thing
that I brought up when we talked about
this at a retreat was I thought 600
miles and 300 miles is a lot considering
we're allowed to do a lot of these
meetings virtually now. I know that I
don't put 600 miles on my vehicle. Um,
and I didn't know if anybody was
interested in lowering that amount
because I would go with 500 for mayor
and 250 for council members, but I don't
know if anybody is. Council member
Banjivani, I get lost a lot. So, I don't
You get lost so you drive extra miles.
Yeah. And the taxpayer pays for that.
Yeah. Well, some some of us Council
Member Buckley, can you speak into your
microphone, please? Sorry. Sorry. Oh,
okay. Yeah, please. Thank you.
Anyway, some of us live don't live like
right in north part of Gilbert where
it's close, you know, to get to town
hall. Like Chuck and I both live in
South Gilbert. And for me, it takes me
about 20 minutes or longer to get here.
Mileage, I mean, you know, the mileage
is still a lot more than driving, you
know, four miles to get to town hall. So
I I frankly probably drive more than 300
miles because of going back and forth
and sometimes I have meetings and then I
don't have another meeting until, you
know, 4:00. So I'm either going to have
to stay here or I, you know, go home and
work both my jobs at home until I have
to come back. So there are days that,
you know, I do that two or three times a
day. I don't know about Chuck, but yeah,
I think he probably does the same thing.
So, I I personally would not want to
change that.
Okay.
Okay. Mayor and Council, thank you. Uh,
moving on. So, the next one, I think
another one that should be pretty
straightforward here, but um, this
relates to communication support within
the office. Um this really touches on uh
what technology equipment and and other
tools you're you're um provided when
when you take office in order to to
assist you with with the roles and
responsibilities. So um of course you
all receive the standard town uh laptop
and as well loaded uh loaded with all
the software that you need for for the
different business that you conduct. Um,
and of course a town issued cell phone
uh with with access to email with to
town email as well as to voicemail um
and and uh a voicemail account obviously
that can be managed by by
yourself. So um speaking of managing by
ourselves, has everybody set up their
voicemail? Because I know I've called a
couple of council members and they
didn't have their voicemail set up and
it would be helpful if you actually set
up your voicemail so that people can
leave you messages. Thank you. Public
service announcement.
Moving on, mayor and council. So, um the
next the next one's related to
expenditure, reimbursement, and or
purchasing card. Um again, pretty pretty
clear here. um uh an elected official is
able to obtain a procurement card uh for
public business. But more often we we
tend to uh do the second option which is
directly reimbursing uh elected
officials for for any expenditures
related to public business uh upon
written request. So any questions there
before we move move along? Mayor and
councel, vice mayor. Um I had asked a
question previously and I assume we got
that straightened out. My purchasing
card that I had a couple years ago was
taken away saying we don't get them
anymore.
Is that correct? Uh, Mayor Council
Member Anderson, I not sure exactly the
situation there, but but let us kind of
do Oh, here comes Hawin behind me again.
I'll let him take care of that. Thank
you. Uh, yes, there were some confusion
as to exactly how that was supposed to
be operating on, you know, behind the
scenes. Uh this clarifies that and and
council members are allowed to receive a
purchasing card. Uh they'll be asked to
sign the the agreement that that kind of
demonstrates the rules and uh and what's
required uh to keep receipts and and
just those reminders that the purchasing
cards are to be used for things that are
budgeted for uh and that you also have
support staff that might be useful to
not need a purchasing card and have
purchases go through them. Um, but that
option is available. Uh, and and it's
just this clarifies that. So, we
apologize for our past uh interactions.
Council member, I just want Monica to be
able to charge up the card.
Thank you.
Any other questions with with that one,
mayor?
Seeing none. No. All right. The last
one, not the last one, but the but the
other one that's had some some
discussion behind it. Um so this is
related to travel training membership
memberships and community events. Um lot
of lot of language here and this is the
first of of two slides but but really
this is kind of setting parameters for
the use of what what will be your
individual budget line item for employee
professional development. um that's
intended to include things like
conference attendance, trainings or
other u community related expenses. So
um we are moving toward kind of
establishing these more individual
budget line items. Uh I did we did not
specify within this document the amounts
of each and the reason for that being
that um you know that could change year
to year with with the budget process.
But I will tell you as since the timing
kind of works out well with this with
this um discussion coming right as
you're about to get into the public
discussions related to budget
development. I will tell you that we're
recommending um for next year's budget
uh $6,000 for each of the the employee
development funds for council and then
12,000 for for the mayor's uh fund. So,
this again, this this slide here really
um sets kind of some of the parameters
related to to those expenses and and
what types of expenses you would expect
to to incur. Obviously, the um the
Arizona Constitution provides for the
gift clause uh that that is intended to
prohibit donation of public funds. So in
other words, anytime uh an expense is
made, there should be a a proportionate
value uh received back from the town. So
obviously a key thing to keep in mind
anytime um an expense is is incurred. U
but then um really kind of getting more
into the parameters around the the uh
intended expenses from this account. uh
as I mentioned
uh you know trainings and conferences is
going to be a very a very common expense
that that would come from from these
individual accounts. So again this
second slide kind of kind of tries to
lay out some of the logistics and and
things to keep in mind or guidelines
related to um those types of conferences
or or uh trainings or those types of
things that you will attend. in some of
the some of the um uh just requirements
that we want to keep in mind and and
that we will um for example that that uh
this would include costs such as
registration fees, travel costs, and
food. Um you know, if we're going down
to Tucson for the for the League of
Arizona Cities and Towns Conference,
obviously that requires a place to stay,
requires food when there isn't uh a meal
provided by by the conference itself and
that sort of thing. Um and then we also
include other expenses. So um you know
this this uh fund would also be able to
be used for uh community related
expenses that that you see as a a value
to the community. And I guess that's
probably one of the most important key
points to make with with um these
expenses and and with this uh council
policy in itself that we made in the
previous slide. And that's that's that
it um it's really each up to each of you
to kind of determine what that community
benefit is. And then it's really up to
each of you to justify that if if the
question comes up as far as any expense
that was made made from this account. Um
to then justify how you see that as
being a a proportionate community
community benefit that that came from
that expense. So Mayor, I will go ahead
and stop there. I'm assuming maybe there
might be some questions or discussion
with this one before we get to the last
policy. Yeah, thanks Rob. I know that
when we talked about this at the
retreat, there was some discussion.
Council member Torus, I just wonder does
this is this end or does it roll over
into the next year?
So the mayor, Council Member Tores, the
the intention would be um this would be
an annual budgeted amount. So, so, uh,
we would we would set that again in the
following year's budget as far as what
amount would be budgeted to each of you.
uh you know I
I so obviously unused funds would would
you know be returned back but but I
think the the intention would be that
that each year there would be a new and
separate allocation
because each year the new the amount
could change for the budget too. So um
based on the budget discussions it could
go from $6,000 up. I think it's a it's a
lot and it's a big jump. We're probably
around 23 or 24,000 right now. We'll be
going up to about 48,000 if my math is
correct. It's basic math. I'm good at
that one. Um, so that's a big jump for
what the council would be allowed to
spend from my perspective. and how it's
going to be spent is something that I'm
gonna be leerary about because that's
it's going to be an interesting
conversation I think as to how that
money gets spent. And did you talk about
guests because I know one question that
we had was guests and I think we may
have removed it but people are able to
bring guests but it would all always be
at the guests costs. So, if you want to
bring a guest to an event, there will
obviously if your guest comes to the
conference and you have a hotel room,
they're going to stay in your hotel room
and there's no cost there, right? It
just kind of goes without saying, but um
if there's a cost for that guest to be
at a dinner or something else, that
would be at the guest's cost to attend
because the town shouldn't be just to
make that clear.
Um, and I I hope that there's a way that
we can keep track of this because I know
it does say that the money would be
going back into your fund if you were
not attending an event. And I don't know
if it's on this slide or not. There's a
lot of words on this slide. Um, or if
it's on the next slide, but making sure
that we're keeping track of that. And
we'll have to have some kind of a
process or policy in place so that
Monica and Kirsten know how to deal with
that when it's coming out of the budget
money. Mayor. Yeah. So, that that is on
this slide. It's on kind of the bottom
bullet point there or the first section.
Um, but yeah, the the intention with
that would be if you know if there's a a
$600 registration fee to to attend a a
conference somewhere and and there's a
time period where where we're no longer
able to get get a refund for for that
fee and then um somebody uh determines
they're unable to attend. that that um
obviously we wouldn't expect that to
come out of out of anyone's personal uh
budget if you know if there's a good
reason that that um somebody is no
longer able to attend. But but that
cancellation fee if it is not able to be
refunded which of course we would try
first would then come out of this this
budget for that individual mayor or
council member.
Thank you. Yeah, I think that's
important too because it shouldn't be
just coming out of the all of the
council funds either. it needs to be
allocated to that specific person,
especially if we are going to move to
this form of each council member gets a
certain amount every single year out of
the budget. Thank you. There there will
have to be some sort of a process in
place for that and so that Monica and
Kirsten like I said know how to handle
that too. Yeah, Mayor and that's that's
gives an opportunity to provide a kind
of an additional point here. you know,
we didn't want to get down to every
single detail within this document and
and we will have to kind of determine
our own internal policies for for
guiding us along in some of this, but um
you know, this this is really intended
to be more of a guiding framework and
and not get into kind of every possible
scenario, but but maybe have our own
kind of internal office um guidelines
that that we can, you know, refine
easier over time and and make sure that
we're doing a best job of kind of
guiding you with with these expenses
over over time. It comes in handy for
training new council members, too.
You're going to have two new council
members next year, for sure. Um, and so
it comes in handy for training and the
purpose of um understanding what's
allowed and what's not. And I hope we
can put a process in place for when
we're invited to events and RSVPing for
those events and attending and not
attending. And just so that Monica and
Kirsten again have a have an easy way to
handle those things. This weekend I know
we had an we had an event that nobody
from Gilbert was at which just you know
stabs me in the heart. I was at two
events over the weekend and couldn't be
at all three. And so I would love to
find a process for being able to handle
those things so that we know that
somebody from Gilbert will be there when
it's something that's important to the
community. Thank you. Thank you. PSA
from Bridget again.
Well, Mayor, that just leaves us with
with one uh additional policy and I
think another one that's that's pretty
straightforward and and simple. Um this
is just related to office space.
Obviously each of you are provided um
shared space but uh and also a shared
office uh including the necessary
resources for you to conduct business
and that and that each of you are um or
we have staff that supports each of you
in in your roles as well in the
intergovernmental relations office.
So, mayor and council, that are that uh
concludes the six council support costs
of the financial policies. Um, unless
there was any other discussion or
questions or information we can provide.
Thank you. I don't Does anyone have any
questions or comments for Rob? One other
thing that was done was the document was
all cleaned up so that it refers to
Gilbert elected officials consistently
throughout the document. seemed like we
were being called a couple of different
things. So, it makes it cleaner for the
future. Some of these documents haven't
been updated for many, many, many years.
So, it was an opportunity to take
advantage of that, too. Seeing none,
Rob, we'll see. Yes, Council Member
Kowski. Sorry, I didn't see you attorney
Mike. I just have one comment. Um, thank
you, Rob, for this. Um, I support all
the changes. Just wanted to make a note
that regarding the fund um for council
to attend different uh conferences etc.
Um that to make sure that the council is
is aware that on our annual financial
disclosure we we have to disclose those
expenses and like the travel expenses
that were paid for that. Um, and so I
guess just for staff to make sure that
you provide us with a summary or or or
or that we have to have a summary for
our financial disclosure report each
year and it is $1,000 or more. So
sometimes the state conference, if
you're just going to the conference and
not having a room, it's less than
$1,000. But anything $1,000 or more then
it becomes an issue. I just pay for my
own room most of the time unless it's
down in Tucson. But great point. Thank
you and great reminder. Yeah, mayor,
council member Kroski, that's helpful.
We'll make sure and and consider that
information as well. Another internal
process that would help be helpful to
the council. Thank you. Seeing no other
comments, we I will adjourn this
meeting. We have an exact section to get
to. Thanks. Thanks, Rob.