Study Session - 3/5/2024 5:00:00 PM

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good evening everyone welcome to the
Gilbert Town Council study session for
March 5th 20124 I'll call this meeting
to order we just have two items on our
agenda this evening the first one is a
discussion on electric vehicles charging
station and can I have staff come to the
podium to give us a presentation I can't
see who that
is
janica
yes good evening mayor and Council I
thank you for the opportunity to discuss
our electric vehicle charging uh pricing
and policy study with you this evening
as you see I have um our team with
Walker Consultants here as well but I
wanted to make sure I gave you a little
bit of background on the information
before we jumped into the
details so currently electric vehicle
charging in the town is occurring on
three different locations so we have
some here at Town Hall that as you may
have noticed are not currently active um
we also have some at the Public Safety
Training Facility as well as at the
heway parking garage now one item to
note is that the the Lo other locations
do not have any capability to collect
data for us to understand the usage of
those Chargers so they are not what we
consider smart Chargers the ones we have
recently installed here at Town Hall are
and do have the capability to um collect
data potentially Collective fee which
we'll also discuss and that is what we
are in the process of replacing at our
at the other two locations
so excuse
me over the coming months all three
locations will have the same the same
infrastructure that are considered smart
chargers for us to be able to look at
some data on their usage as
well currently and what Eric and his
team will discuss with you is the
possibility of implementing a fee to
recoup at least the electricity cost the
current stations do not Implement a fee
without the the capability to do so we
have no fee for that for those charging
and it's just a free service to our
residents and anybody who comes by to
use those so we are exploring the
implementation of a fee to at least
recoup just the electricity dispense now
this is just somewhere to start with for
now once we have some more data after a
pilot period uh we're currently
recommending about a year we'd have have
some data to better understand what else
we might like to to recoup in that fee
if it's possible or if it's
feasible and so this study is truly just
to give us a starting point we'd have
three locations that are able to collect
the data Implement a fee and really give
us a better understanding of what our
community is utilizing when it comes to
EV Chargers on Town
facilities and so with that I will turn
it over to Eric with Walker Consultants
to go into those details
thank you Jennica Madame mayor council
people I'm Eric hagget I'm a director of
planning with Walker Consultants I'm
actually out of our Chicago office um my
focus area is um sort of city planning
related to parking and transportation I
do some some Financial feasibility work
and then also EV planning and pricing
and I'm joined by my colleague honor
chupti who's our principal in our um
actually Chandler Office here in Arizona
so um as Jennica
mentioned the goal of the study was
really to give uh the town a starting
point for setting policy and potentially
pricing for its EV charging
infrastructure um I'm going to use the
the acronym evcs which is EV charging
stations a lot EV is obviously electric
vehicles uh and a few others that I'll
explain but but basically as Jennica
mentioned the existing EV charging
stations in the three facilities that we
looked at
do not uh allow for a fee to be assessed
for charging they're free to the public
they don't monitor use to see who is
using them when for what periods of time
and some of the goals of replacing that
equipment is to gather that data as jica
mentioned so I'm going to briefly walk
through what we did what we found in our
research and what we're recommending uh
welcome any questions either during the
presentation uh or after so very briefly
um the methodology behind this um really
involved a few different aspects talking
to various Town departments um I think
about 10 different departments just to
get a sense of what their goals were
what EV charging looks like in Gilbert
today what they expect it to look like
in the future um and then we also toured
each of the facilities I believe that
was back in November um talked about the
locations talked about um sort of timing
for when those uh new stations might be
installed and just got a sense um of how
each facility might be used obviously
the town hall lot employee lot has
different characteristics than the
Public Safety Training Facility than the
heway garage in in the Heritage District
um so we really wanted to understand as
much as possible who we think might be
using these stations um while we were
here we also took a look at some of your
um some of the other municipalities in
the Phoenix Metro area uh to
see where there was EV charging
infrastructure what the pricing was what
the policies were uh if we could
identify any usage of those facilities
um and then we followed up that with
conversations with a few institutions in
the area uh we talked to a few EV
charging station manufacturers uh
including the vendor of the the new
equipment that Gilbert is has installed
at Town Hall and is proposing for the
other locations and then we did some
research on pricing policy both in the
Phoenix Metro area and then the greater
United States to sort of see what people
are doing today um I do want to stress
that at least the you know what is it
five to 10 year history of EVS in the US
pricing and policy for charging has been
kind of all over the place um initially
a lot of uh municipalities private
owners those sorts of things uh received
or were able to in install charging
infrastructure um because of grant
funding for the equipment uh there was
really no aim to recoup costs or to to
make a profit necessarily now that EVS
are more prevalent there are a whole
bunch of targets for um the growth of of
EV sales people both public and private
are viewing it much more of a um some of
business opportunity but some a service
that needs to be provided and
considering a little bit more closely
what the real costs are what what the
applications are for having to acquire
this equipment and replace it you know
periodically so I'll start with a little
bit of um peer research um we did this
really to see what the market currently
will bear or currently um charges for
the use of charging stations um this
wasn't used directly to say chandler
charges this so Gilbert should charge
that it's really just to see um what
people around you what your peers uh
might be doing so you can see here um
Chandler actually offers charging
stations for public use for free um
cities like Mesa and Tempe provide a
combination of free charging but then
also paid charging and then a few
municipalities we couldn't identify
actually any publicly available charging
stations and then we included um Arizona
State and the State of Arizona
facilities in there because they are
obviously large entities in this area
they do have a lot of uh EV charging
infrastructure and we just wanted to
show uh sort of what they were doing as
well as your your pure
municipalities so you can see here um as
I mentioned cost of charge ranging from
free up to you know 39 or 49 cents per
kilowatt hour uh some charge an hourly
fee and then I provide um just some
general information on the types of
charging uh stations that people are
using
we also took a look at Fleet uh EV
charging we understand that the town
aside from I believe one fire engine
does not have any EV fleet vehicles but
um the intent or assumption or or the
sort of trend is that at some point
there will be EVS in the town's Fleet
and so um the town wanted to understand
sort of what are other people doing
related to fleet vehicles are they using
public charging infrastructure to charge
fleet vehicles uh are they dedicating
evcs for fleet vehicle use only um those
sorts of things so uh we found that most
or many of the municipalities in the
Phoenix area actually are providing EV
charging for fleet vehicles um up to you
know temp City of Tempe has 30 or more
EV charging stations that are capable of
serving their Fleet um You probably
noticed in the news that city of Mesa
Rec recently won a grant to install some
new charging stations um with at least
some of the news coverage saying that
that those charging stations could also
be used for Ev Fleet uh charging um
similar to what we're recommending for
Gilbert uh we couldn't find anything to
say that there were any kind of charges
associated with Fleet charging um there
may be some internal tracking of
different fleet vehicles that charge and
and some accounting for that in the uh
the city's governments but um I'll go
into that in a little bit when I cover
our
recommendations so this is very simply
um the summary of of our recommended
fees for the charging stations that are
currently being installed in Gilbert um
at the present time we're not
recommending any differentiation between
the Chargers at the Town Hall campus
versus heway garage versus Public Safety
Training Facility um simply because we
don't have any information on how the
historical Chargers have been used or or
how these new charging stations might be
used so um as Jennica mentioned our real
goal here was to First recoup the cost
of any electricity that was dispensed so
at least the user was paying paying that
fee um align with the market rates in
the Phoenix area so that people would
actually make use of the charging
stations and they wouldn't just sit
there idle um we did look at the
potential to recoup some of the upfront
cost but that was not the main driver of
the pricing um we also are recommending
a few things to encourage people who own
EVS to use those spaces and actively
charge as opposed to EV owners parking
there and not using the Chargers or um
ice Vehicles internal combustion engine
Vehicles parking in those spaces and not
uh making them available for Ev vehicles
to use so um you'll see here in the
table the uh the top row there public
user users and town employees this is
Town employees driving their own
personal EVS not uh not any future Town
fleet vehicles uh so we're recommending
that for the first four hours a per
kilowatt hour fee of of 25 cents per
kilowatt hour which equates to about .75
per hour with the uh the charging
stations that the town has purchased and
is planning to purchase uh and then
after four hours we're recommending that
that fee actually be increased um and
that does a couple things it's a
potential for more Revenue but the real
goal of that is to encourage after one
vehicle charges for 4 hours for that
person to move their vehicle so that
another vehicle has access to the EV
charging stall um the new equipment that
the town has acquired has the capability
to charge what's called or commonly
referred to as an idle fee so basically
if a vehicle is pluged pluged into the
charging station has fully charged and
is still plugged in then a fee is
assessed in order to inspire them to
move their vehicle and these are fees
that are assessed uh automatically by
the uh charging station they can be uh
adjusted by the town the fees for both
the cost of charging and idle fees and
any other fees can be adjusted by the
town um with the technology that you all
have have installed and are planning to
install um and then the last column
there is um sort of a deterrent for what
I mentioned either EV Vehicles parking
in those spaces and not using them or
ice Vehicles you know regular
traditional internal combustion Vehicles
parking uh in those spaces and the
amount that is recommended actually
matches um current state of Arizona
statute for the same kind of a fence um
and so we recommended up to this fine
amount now now um because the town does
not have a dedicated um parking
enforcement staff that that monitors use
of the heway garage for instance it's
unlikely that you'll be monitoring very
actively Town Hall campus or the Public
Safety Training Facility um the intent
here is really with signage advertising
a fine for violating this it will deter
people from from violating in reality
it's unlikely that there will be many
Cit
issued just like I'm sure the State of
Arizona doesn't issue a whole lot of
citations for this type of offense um
but we do similar to um Ada parking
violations we want something with some
teeth so that people don't just um don't
just park in these spaces unnecessarily
or inappropriately um there's a term out
there called icing where people will
intentionally Park an ice vehicle in an
Eevee space to prevent it being used um
for what purpose I don't know but that
is something that happens in parking
facilities like heway where it can
become very full there's the chance that
people will park in those Open Spaces if
they see them just because they want a
place to park um but really they're
supposed to be there for people to use
to charge their
vehicles so that cost as I mentioned W
that wasn't
right sorry about
that press the wrong button the the per
kilowatt hour charge um was determined
by examining the uh some historical
electric bills for each of the three
town um facilities to see you know at
all times of the year this this per hour
fee to charge should be enough to
compensate for the cost of electricity
whether that's you know summer peak
season or offseason um and as Jennica
mentioned maybe uh generate a little bit
of additional Revenue um we we did a
quick comparison of the sort of average
electric vehicle now this is a a newer
you know 2023 2024 electric vehicle
compared with the average internal
combustion engine vehicle on the road
and then looked at what it would take to
charge the EV to 250 Mi of range and to
gas up the internal combustion engine
vehicle to the same range um and really
it was just a way of saying we're not um
proposing that you price the use of the
V charging station so low that you're
you know uh really favoring that group
of people over someone that needs to go
to a gas station and and fuel up their
car but it is it is fairly comparable um
so from a fairness perspective you're
not really favoring one group over
another for future Town fleet vehicles
um we're not recommending that those be
paid charging sessions uh what we would
recommend though is some type of
credential or system for tracking use to
the various departments that way you
know you know if a particular department
has very high use you might consider
installing EV charging stations closer
to where those vehicles are housed or
more of them or providing um or making
sure that those vehicles have access to
charging and other department vehicles
that maybe aren't used as much need to
wait until um the other vehicles are
charged
so we would we did recommend and and the
system that you have is capable of
providing basically a card that the user
can scan at the station it will know
that it's either that person or that
vehicle um and would track actually
their their charging use um and we put a
few recommendations in here related to
the times for charging fleet vehicles um
Town Hall campus obviously these current
charging stations are in the employee
area uh employee parking area so really
anytime the fleet vehicle needed a
charge they could charge but in the
public Lots around town hall campus if
there's future charging infrastructure
we would recommend that um fleet
vehicles be charged outside of normal
business hours to give any visitors to
town hall and the campus uh access to
those chargers at the heway garage given
the the characteristics of that District
um you know charging by fleet vehicles
if necessary should only really occur
after after hours um or before people
show up for for work uh again to make
those spaces as readily available for
the public as possible and then at the
Public Safety Training Facility um so
there's two sides of that parking area
that have EV charging infrastructure one
unsecured side that visitors to the
facility can use and One Secured area in
the secured area fleet vehicles there's
no reason they can't charge at any time
on the public side side similar to um to
the town hall public Lots sort of after
business hours and we do understand that
at that facility um there might be some
sort of other restrictions on only
people with business at the Public
Safety Training Facility able to use the
charging station so we did we did factor
that in
here so to give the town a sense of um
the potential Revenue that could be
generated from these stations uh again
we had to make our own assumptions
really on on use of the station since we
don't have any historical data um we did
look at all three locations assuming all
of the planned um charging stations are
installed so that's the three at Town
Hall the six stations or 12 ports at the
heway garage and then the six stations
or 12 ports at the public safety
training facility and then kind of
showed uh at different fee levels what
the real impact would be so at the very
top you can see if the town chose a fee
that was something closer to 10 cents a
kilowatt hour during many times of the
year that wouldn't actually cover the
cost of the electricity being dispensed
um when you move up to the higher tiers
the 30 and 40 cents those are really
getting to the top of the market and it
becomes far more expensive to charge an
EV vehicle than to fuel an ice vehicle
um and there are at least currently much
less expensive charging options in the
phix area including at people's homes so
you'll see for the recommended 25 cents
per kilowatt hour what's reflected here
is actual net charging Revenue so that's
after electricity has been paid for you
know assuming our estimates of use are
anywhere near correct the town May
generate about $6,500 per year in net
revenue so it's not a huge money
generator but again the goal was really
just to to recover the cost of of
providing the electricity um and that
scale on the right hand side there was
something we put in to show you know
there's an argument to be made for
providing EV charging as cheaply as
possible or free to be the most
Equitable to the most people to uh maybe
include more people that do not have
access to home charging where where most
of the charging activity occurs but that
is also the least cost recovery for the
town on the other end you know the
highest price obviously you have the
potential to generate the highest
revenue but are you um limiting the
number of people that might be able to
to access the
stations so that's really it there's a
lot more detail and background research
and that sort of thing in the written
document um happy to take questions now
but really uh next steps after this um I
guess I'll do these since your voice is
not very good jenica uh I guess the
intent is to do a notice of intent for
60 days and then come back to Council in
May to seek adoption of of a fee
schedule for the EV charging
stations thanks Eric councilman ban
Giovani yep Eric um couple multiple
questions probably all wrap into one
what are the replacement costs for one
of these um charging stations how how
long do they last and maintenance
charges so I will attempt to answer that
but I might have my colleague come up
since he is dealing with the
construction side so I believe the
retail cost of one of the stations that
the town has purchased is about
$110,000 um I know that there are some
Cooperative purchasing agreements and
things in place that I believe got that
cost down to closer to 75
7500 uh and
then the estimated useful life of the
station is about 10 years um and
maintenance costs and all those sorts of
things actually the town elected at
least with the town hall um stations to
pay for that service contract up front
and I don't recall what the uh what the
amount is but that service contract
really takes care of aside from like
vandalism and vehicle strikes it takes
care of repairs and regular maintenance
replacement of parts and that sort of
thing has in your pricing structure have
we figured out have we added those
potential costs so when we replace it
we're not losing money we have not the
the pricing analysis was strictly
focused on electricity costs and seeing
what the net might be after that okay
thank
you council member to oh council member
oh we have to switch the board back from
the last meeting I just popped up as
council member torus and in council
member tilki seat um council member
tilki you switched seats last time
council member Tiki when you weren't
here so okay and on my board it
shows well thank you mayor um I had a
couple questions so I'm not sure if
staff needs to answer them or not but
I'll I'll try so if I'm understanding
correctly the stations that we currently
have
available were not charging for the
Youth but the town of Gilbert is being
charged for the electricity correct okay
and when if we move to this model so
this is more of an
internal question on accounting um I'm
assuming you mentioned that um employees
would have a a card that they would
swipe and we would know it was a town of
Gilbert employee does that then get
charged to that department similar to
what I believe we do if you go and fill
up with gas at our stations it's
definitely a genic question okay
thanks council member tilki if if it is
a town employee who is charging their
personal vehicle they will be charged
for that separately if if it is for a
town vehicle that they're that they are
charging yes we will track that on the
back end um for accounting purposes just
like we do with with fuel and gas okay
absolutely so um when I look at this it
seems only fair for somebody who fills
up at the gas tank to to ride that I'm
paying my own share for that um I
appreciate at the beginning of the
presentation you mentioned that this has
kind of been all over the board as far
as other communities charging or not
charging it you know it's one of those
things when it's new we don't want to
regulate it we want to see what's
happening um but I don't think it's fair
that the rest of us are paying the cost
for people to use a public
station um so I'm I'm supportive of
looking at this fee I like it being a
pilot program so we can start collecting
data
um because unfortunately we don't know
who's using our our um I don't know what
to call them
pumps so um so anyway I like that and um
the data that you're going to be
collecting will I'm assuming will allow
us to make better decisions if we should
add additional pumps on on our property
in the future is that correct absolutely
and that is our goal with this with this
study and the pilot is to ensure that we
can come back to you with data that
really shows us what what our community
is using how we can best go about
recouping those fees should we want to
include infrastructure cost as well um
we believe that within within a year we
would have um a good enough data set to
really make sure that we're able to to
make those decisions moving
forward
um I'm I'm going to look at the council
and ask for maybe um checks that you
mentioned the
infrastructure do you feel that if we
implemented this for a specific amount
of time six months year whatever it is
then use that data which would allow us
to look at infrastructure cost and what
that may entail and at that point we
could evaluate whether we needed to
recoup those infrastructure costs yeah
absolutely
okay thank you mayor council member
Kowski hi jenica um I have a few
questions are the non-smart evcs at the
locations that they are at now are they
at end of life or could they be
relocated to a space that would be used
by Fleet
EES I will have to check with staff on
that the stations that we currently have
around town so the ones in the herway
parking garage would have been installed
in 2017 when that garage opened the ones
at the Public Safety Training Facility
would have been installed in late 2020
and started to be used maybe early 2021
after that facility opened I'm
specifically talking about the ones from
the Hearn parking garage if they can be
relocated because they aren't the Smart
Ones if they can still be used at
another location that might just have
access for um the fleet
EES they can however I think the biggest
concern there would be that we would not
be able to provide any data on that it
may be in the future we have fleet
vehicles who are in different
departments that might be using them and
we wouldn't be able to provide that data
if they can be moved it's certainly
something we can look into however we we
still wouldn't be able to provide any
data on those for you as much as I like
data I also don't want to waste um a
good station so I would be okay with
reusing them in a location where we know
um um we are using it anyways for our
vehicles um let's
see what is the evcs max output rate per
hour so might have to ask hude for the
max the average that we assumed that we
got from the vendor was 7 kilowatt hours
per hour so um these are level two
stations you probably heard of the Tesla
fast charging stations those have a much
higher output and then your at home
level one charger has a lower output
than that but these charging stations
are supposed to have about a seven 7
kilowatt hour 7 kilowatt
output I'm on so these uh these are
level two charging stations so they are
called Universal charging stations so
they're rated for 40 amps that's how the
ports go for and the Tesla supercharges
that most of us are aware of are at 75
amps but there are very few vehicles
that charge at that rate other than
Teslas so we we are recommending the
town go with universal Chargers that are
4 the amps which is supportive of the
infrastructure that most buildings and
infrastructure needs meet thank you for
that um I guess based on that
information I I saw in your research of
other facilities like ASU where they
just had a dollar amount per hour versus
is a cents per kilowatt hour and I think
for ease of understanding by the general
public I I like that method of just
saying it's how however many you know
$150 an hour um in that in that scenario
so the issue there is that because
different Vehicles charge at different
rates um if you charge a flat hourly fee
some Vehicles will get more of a charge
than other others for the same price
whereas charging by the kilowatt hour
you're really charging for you know how
much electricity is dispensed um and in
conversations with other
entities um more of them are leaning
towards switching from a flat fee to a
per kilowatt hour fee for just that
reason just because there is so much
variability and and how fast Vehicles
can actually take in the electricity
okay thank you for that input but um
regarding the fees for the offense to
park in the parking lot or Park parking
space and not use the
evcs um I'm okay with aligning the $350
with Arizona um laws currently but I
think that's pretty steep I'm not sure
whether there's a way to graduate that
or have first second third offenses
and we we recognize that and I think
that's why we phrased it as up to um so
it could be a tiered system it could be
discretion of the town you know if they
see a lot of these violations maybe it
is closer to the highend if there's very
few maybe it's closer to the lowend but
yeah I think that's definitely a top
bound because it is a is a pretty high
price um for the Hearn garage I I
appreciate the level of detail of when
um like you had different time ranges
for when to park in the Hearn garage
from Sunday through Thursday and Friday
and Saturday I think just keeping that
consistent is going to be better to
inform the public or for even us to
educate the public if anyone asks um so
just sticking with like the 9:00 a.m.
before 9:00 a.m. after 9:00
p.m I think would be consist public
charging I think it's whenever whenever
you're allowed to park in that that
garage as the public you're allowed to
charge this was really just future Town
fleet vehicles and more of a
recommendation to those fleet vehicle
drivers to avoid the busiest times for
the public so it wouldn't be sort of a
posted this is when the charging
stations are open to the public it would
be more of an internal policy to say hey
if you if you have an EV fleet vehicle
and you really need a charge try to
avoid the places where the public might
need them or the times when the public
might need them but for the general
public when whenever they have the
permission or the ability to park in
those facilities they could use the
charging station so I don't think there
would need to be an advertisement of of
times that the Chargers would be turned
on okay although if the town chose
there's the ability with these stations
to set hours of operation so they could
be nonfunctional during certain periods
of time if if you chose to for whatever
reason okay I don't think I'd have any
reason for that um sorry I have a whole
list of questions how um this might go
back to a question that you weren't able
to ask earlier but do we know how much
we're actually spending for electricity
for uh annually for let's say the Hearn
garage
now I do have some old electricity bills
but not off the top of my
head I do not have that data for you
right this moment but I certainly can
provide that to you okay I think that
would be useful and you didn't mention
it during the presentation but I leave
but I believe in our packet we had a
draft of the um policy and I think there
was a comment or phrase that said that
the town was going to maybe go towards
an EV first policy for vehicle Fleet and
I just want to say that I'm not
necessarily I don't support a blanket
policy on evv first I think that it
needs to be based on the use case um
because there's certain in town vehicles
that don't match with with the use of an
EV that that requires charging so I
would just have concerns to make sure
that we have that um reviewed and
adjusted before the final policy comes
for approval absolutely thank you for
pointing that out we'll make sure we up
update that in a final draft review
thank
you council member
torguson so this is a pilot study just
to hopefully recover the costs yes we're
looking at a year just to give us the
data to bring back to to you all to make
a better decision of how we want this to
look moving forward during that year
would you be able to put together the
costs the infrastructure cost setting
them up purchasing them Etc to see how
much we're going to lose
absolutely and I assume that when this
gets brought forward we're going to see
something that will show the recovery
costs of going into business of charging
electric cars
moving forward we'll make sure we bring
you the data on what the replacement
costs have been so far as well as the
the progress and the um data along with
the usage right because I don't to me
this looks like we're supplying
something why put a charger in your home
if you get to go down the street why why
invest in your own EV if you can park
and turn and get it for just the cost of
electricity so I would like to see the
total costs brought forward
and what it would cost to break even or
uh possibly do something that
contributes to parks and wreck even as
far as a margin on it if we're going to
go forward with doing something like
this is that possible we can certainly
provide that comparison just as um the
estimates were provided give you a scale
of um the cost and how much we're
recouping and what that could include
based off of actual data for the next
year rather than the estimates that we
have now since our infrastructure is not
does not allow us to um capture that
data thank you you're welcome council
member
Buckley um well a lot of my questions
were answered so thank you guys um I
what I would like to know is do you and
maybe you maybe you mentioned this but I
would like to see if there have to be
some of the cities or towns that that
have put a number in there that covers
the installation of these and the cost
and if not I I I would like to see that
data and what the difference is and just
just paying for the I mean it would be
kind of like when I buy a new car all I
have to do is pay for the gas and uh I'd
like to is there something that you can
provide for that so as far as cost
recovery total cost recovery
infrastructure equipment electricity
cost
maintenance I have never personally come
across a case where level two charging
stations have been financially
self-supporting the pricing that you
would have to get to would just be not
competitive to charging a vehicle at
home um home charging is typically the
least expensive that's where most
charging occurs
um if you saw the that table that I
showed um about this sort of comparison
of fueling an EV versus an ice vehicle
um at 25 cents per kilowatt hour if you
were looking to recover all of those
costs it would be many multiples of that
25 cents per kilowatt hour which would
then make
it astronomically more expensive so I
haven't seen another public entity that
has set pricing in that way um and some
of that I think is is a function of the
fact that historically the EV charging
equipment has been you know partially
Grant funded or or obtained through
another means so it was really just more
of an amenity than a real um you know
business case for it okay well what what
I'm kind of wanting to see is maybe what
those costs would be and perhaps maybe
the budget Department you know can can
look at that but the cost what we're
charging on the cost to may be somewhere
in the middle or just just to have the
data to look at sure and uh I think that
would be helpful not just for us but for
if if the cost is a little bit higher is
uh and mayor I don't know you may know
this uh do we does anyone have a number
of estimated charging stations that we
are actually looking to put
in for these three locations it's a
total of 15 units which is 30 different
charging ports each each station has two
different ports uh Beyond this there are
other conversations but these are the
only three sites that we studied that um
there are current EV charging stations
that are looking to be replaced but
beyond that we haven't looked into it
okay so we're we're looking this study
is looking at putting in 15 in different
areas total 15 charging stations do we
know the cost of one charging station
yet so that was the 10 ,000 or so retail
about 7500 is the cost to the town per
station okay and then there's other fees
associated with uh those maintenance
agreements that I mentioned okay and and
there's there's no data that from any
other town or anything that they have
calculated any of the numbers I
requested earlier not that is publicly
available or that I've seen no yeah I I
find that
fascinating um but uh okay so we have
the number of charging
stations um can I make a suggestion
we're already 45 minutes into this and
we have an hour set aside for our study
session could we have Council follow up
with any more questions that they might
have for staff just in the interest of
time and they'd be able to maybe get you
that information that you're looking for
specifically yeah that actually that was
it you know I just double check so that
answered my question I I think we
probably need more than 15 minutes for
the next subject I'd rather finish this
one and maybe uh set aside for the next
session or next council meeting to bring
this one next one
forward so you're suggesting that we
hold the other item until April 2nd
before that council meeting
yes should I have to do a mo motion for
that it's going to take more than 15
minutes yeah yes it is yes um that's
fine then we can continue this
conversation if you would like to okay
yes I do have one
request that we don't back it up with
something like this next time I don't
want the time eaten up by
this I I don't I don't know that anybody
expected this conversation to go on for
45 minutes honestly I didn't expect this
conversation to go on for 45 minutes I
think we never know when a topic comes
up what questions are going to come out
of the presentation especially when it's
the first time in front of all seven of
us so vice mayor had his we have
microphone on we don't have to do
anything it's a study
I have a question too okay vice
mayor just a couple of quick thoughts I
too am glad this is a pilot project the
tech technology keeps changing all the
time and frankly that's why I believe
there are many businesses that are not
installing charging stations because
they believe that it's going to evolve
and it'll get to a point where charging
is done at home for the most part you
said that's probably most of it is done
there now and I think that's just going
to
increase um question is is um if
something like that happens and our
stations are used just by uh for our
Fleet and no other purpose um can we
reuse uh charging stations that may
become obsolete or not
used and the other question is are
charging
spaces the electric vehicle charging
spaces are they located next to handicap
spaces in every every case if so I'm I'm
a little concerned that we're we're
forcing uh the parking this the people
with the ice vehicles are getting forced
further and further back in the parking
lot and uh creates a whole different set
of of problems for them so the answer to
the first question yes the stations can
be used for fleet vehicle charging if
they're not used by the public um
similar connectors there's a many many
vehicles that accept that type of cable
and there's um adapters and things so
yes they can definitely be used by the
town spleet vehicles in the future if
they're not used by the public as far as
locations of the
stations um I don't know in the public
safety training facility I know that
those are not located near the Ada
spaces
um um so um yes and no so there are some
stations that are located in the Ada
areas which are me the the law requires
that that there has to be a commensurate
number of EV stations that are ADA
Compliant so those number of stations
are located next to the Ada Ada stalls
so on in the hway garage we have done
the same way so there are there are two
stalls I believe that are located in the
Ada and the other EVS are located up on
the upper levels um on the on the
employee lot for the town count uh Town
Hall uh one one EV station that's Ada
comp PL is located in the Ada area the
rest of the EV stalls are located
further back so um to answer your
question it's both there are certain
number that have to be located in the ad
area to keep it uh legal and compliant
for Ada guidelines and the others don't
have to be it will be an owner or town
policy whether you would like to keep
the non Ada EV stalls more readily
accessible for the general public as an
amenity or would you like to have that
place
somewhere further back that's that's an
that's a town decision on most projects
but for the ad stall they have to be in
the Ada ads okay thank you that answers
your questions yeah yeah council member
bani thank you mayor okay I'm gonna
reserve the last question to be the
dumbest most
obvious so educate me because I don't
know um Can these charging stations be
charged by
solar they can be yes um Is it feasible
financially excuse me Is it feasible
financially that I do not know off the
top of my head I do know the city of
Scottsdale in their one of their um
Fleet yards I believe installed some EV
charging stations with Associated solar
the town of Mesa with their Grant was
planning to do something similar for
some of their locations so it is
possible but I don't know the costs okay
break down off the top of my head it
just seems kind of obvious to me we're
going to use resources so we can
charge a charger to charge a car which
is only about $2 less than gas so I need
just just want to know thank
you any other questions um Valley Metro
may have done something out in East Tesa
with solar panels over buses so that
they're being charged plus they're under
the cover of the solar panel so it keeps
the bus cooler when the sun is out but
it also gets to charge the vehicles
while they're there yeah so so it's very
possible to maybe do something like that
in the future to consider that and if
you have any more questions please
follow up with staff on this item I
could also suggest if the council
meeting isn't long that we could follow
up after the meeting with the rest of
our study session if we would like to
consider that just throwing that out
there um instead of having to wait
basically another month before we come
back to this topic then thank you team
thank you Walker consultants and jenica
we did get a packet from you Jennica in
our email yesterday yesterday so if you
haven't had a chance to see that yet
that full packet is there with this
information we appreciate your time
tonight thank you thanks we'll adjourn
the study session thank
you
feel
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