Study Session - 5/7/2024 3:00:00 PM

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we have a lot ah head of assist evening
everyone so I'm going to go ahead and
call this meeting to order calling the
study session for May 7th 2024 to order
we will I want to point out to the
council that our calendar was not
changed council members please silence
your phones our calendar was not changed
I usually don't say that till the
regular hearing but I'll say it now too
since we're going to be here for a while
our calendars were not uh modified but
we do have student of the month this
evening also at 6: p.m. so be prepared
um just FYI and for our study session
this evening we have four items we're
starting with budget with Kelly F
please wonderful good afternoon mayor
and councel it's like my favorite time
of year we get to talk about budget I
will just do a brief overview of
highlevel information
I know there's a lot of information
that's been provided to Council in
packet and followup and then we'll open
for discussion one second Kelly um I can
hear you talking as if I'm standing in
front of you but I don't feel like I'm
hearing you from speakers is anybody
else here okay everybody else is having
the same reaction have two red lights I
know you are on but I have a feeling oh
here we come Sean it sounds so we I can
hear Kelly talking but we I'm not
hearing her from speakers anywhere
do you hear it we're not hearing it over
here then mayor I can hear it from the
speakers testing one two
three thank you Kelly
sorry I think it just has that magic
ability they just walk in and everything
starts
working
oh is it I can hear I feel like I can
hear
myself
okay so she's no longer magic is that
the testing one two
three we'll work The Kinks out and then
uh talk through I know everything you
have to tell us is so riveting that I
want to make sure that we all hear it
and it's recorded for the record it's
good stuff I know it is it's
important
everything up
too I turned mine
up yeah yeah I turned mine up two three
okay let me
try
something okay I'll try to say only
boring things when you can't hear me and
then save the good stuff for
last I know we try as hard as we can to
put some pictures in uh but there are
are some important numbers to discuss
tonight as
well so as you're aware Gilbert is Best
in Class we continue to get a lot of
accolades for the town best city for
early retirement best city for renters
in the US fastest growing city uh Second
Place best place to raise a family best
place to live in the southwest and the
healthiest midsize employer in Arizona
number
three can you hear me a little bit even
when it's out
okay do you want me just to try the
public mik try that Podium for a
minute you can try the handheld mic
that's on the dis desk as
well testing when two three can you hear
that one not at
all back on this
one try this one can you hear me on
here oh but this one still the same with
it
talk as loud as I can and then when it
pops in you'll have to cover your
ears okay we'll give some background on
uh the budget year and things that are
happening uh you're as you're very aware
there was loss of the residential rental
uh out of our sales tax the impact to
gilberd is about $8 million per year and
that will start in January of 2025
coming up Midway through next fiscal
year State shared income tax is also
seen a reduction fiscal 24 had about 73
million of Revenue we're planning about
59 million in fiscal 25 and then in
fiscal 26 it will probably continue to
decline somewhere in the 48 to 52
million range before hopefully it starts
to increase from there but that is kind
of the Outlook uh one of the major
Revenue sources for the town and it
impacts how we look to the Future and
prepare our budgets to make sure that we
don't spend ongoing dollars uh or
one-time dollars for ongoing things
we've also continued to have inflation
and supply chain issues it's getting
better but not fully resolved yet we are
a growing Community we continue to face
uh infrastructure needs for both growth
and aging uh as those come together in
the
timeline we've noticed Noti that it's a
very tight budget year for fiscal 25
which is the budget that we're
presenting before you today uh and
looking forward we anticipate things
will continue to be tight for
Gilbert the budget process this is a
year-long process we kicked it off in
mid-september there's budget input from
all of the Departments from we get
information from the community 311 any
of the master planning lots of
information comes together to inform the
budget requests that are made by the
departments in September through
November and then our executive team
gets together and deliberates in January
and February which we call the Hunger
Games and walk through what are the most
important needs that we feel need to be
presented to Council in the recommended
budget uh based on the available
resources there's a financial retreat in
March where we help get additional
financial information and
decision-making from the council Patrick
and the town manager's office review the
budget in March and then we have our
Council study session this year this
first uh part of May preliminary
adoption will be the next council
meeting in May and final adoption in
June so a good long process of input and
deliberation the requested versus
recommended budget this year is
different from most other years so we
had requested about $70 million total in
the recommended budget there's about $38
million that's about 54% of what was
requested is getting recommended in the
budget in the past this number has been
closer to
75% so it is a very tight budget year um
just not enough money to do all of the
things uh that would be nice or good in
our community um some really important
items as well um but doing the best that
we can to provide the Citizen Services
and maintain the priorities of council
that you have given to
us if we break that 37$ 38 million out
by fund you'll see general fund at the
top is the majority it is our largest
fund so it makes sense that that has uh
the Lion Share of that increase about
$20 million
then the Enterprise funds you can see uh
and the special Revenue funds we'll go
into these in more detail on general
fund if we break that out by uh our
different initiatives maintaining
service level is the largest amount
there um about three and a half million
of that nine and a half are related to
FTE helping people to be able to do the
work that needs to be done and then most
of the other are small amounts across
the departments in the general fund for
increases in contracts like tree
trimming or landscaping or increases in
utility um small amounts that are just
needed to continue the operations that
they're currently doing the other
largest item is the life cycle
replacement about $7.7 million two major
items make this amount up about there's
a $3 million investment for the
self-contained breathing apparatus in
fire uh replacing those items and a $2
million investment to replace Police
radios and that's the bulk of what makes
up that life cycle
replacement in the streets and
Enterprise funds you'll see that the
largest category here is also
maintaining service levels keeping the
lights on uh cost increased cost with
supplies that are needed to run the
different operations raw water costs uh
Street Maintenance costs all of those
types of things are built into that
number if we take the 37 million 38
million divided out instead by strategic
initiatives most of them are going
towards an exceptional built environment
trying to take care of the
infrastructure that we have uh in the
middle prosperous community and the
smallest investment was uh identified
with strong economy but fortunately we
still have a strong economy uh that
works for
us recommended positions there are 30 46
uh positions total that are recommended
in the budget and Council was given the
individual sheets on each of those
positions that provides the business
case and justification for all of those
mostly in the general fund which is our
largest area of FTE and then you can see
broken out across the Enterprise funds
as
well capital projects is where the bulk
of our budget is allocated uh and that
is true of the what we're recommending
in fiscal 25 as well so these are each
of our different uh CIP project
categories Street Improvement uh and
water system improvements are the two
largest categories that's where we're uh
working on northw treatment plant that's
the largest project that we have uh and
one of the largest projects I think in
the state so total CIP this year is
recommended to be uh 1.6 billion
dollar half a billion dollars is towards
Water Treatment Plant alone that one
project is a third of our CIP so it's a
very large project as we work through
that um then this number should come
down over
time if we break up that $1.6 billion
CIP investment into what's carrying
forward projects that we had budgeted in
previous years that we're continuing to
work on uh and the new projects it's
about $1.2 billion toward that carry
forward about
$430,000 of new investment for
additional projects that are needed that
make up the hole and fairly evenly
spread across the different projects
with the bulk in the streets and
water good reminder that with our CIP
gow does things just a little bit
differently where we do budget the
entire amount of the projects up front
that allows us to do the full contracts
and to make sure that we can finish any
of the projects that we start so we
won't be spending a $1.5 billion All In
25 but we will be working on that many
um projects that add up to that total
amount if we look at the comparison
between fiscal 24 budget and fiscal 25
budget fiscal 24 was just over $2
billion the proposed budget for fiscal
25 is about $2.3 billion the major
difference there is that bottom line the
CIP investment that is where the bulk of
our budget is and the bulk of the
increase is in that area um there is
other increases across one I'll note is
on the special Revenue that includes our
grants funding area so that $22 million
increase 20 of that is in contingency
for Grants typically we've budgeted $5
million of contingency for Grants we
found that that has not been enough the
last couple of years because we're
starting to receive more grant money in
and so we need to increase that we're
recommending 25 million so that we have
the amount that would match with any of
the money that comes in we would have to
get the grant money and then we would be
able to spend it but this allows that
contingency we also have property tax as
part of our budget this is our secondary
property tax which is only used to pay
for voter approved debt um that voters
approved on a ballot and we do need to
repay those principal and interest
payments the amount we need for the
upcoming year is
33,2
75,000 um this does include about
$625,000 for delinquency and reserves
and refunds that was our best guest at
the time we uh needed to do the public
notice for our property tax since that
time the county has given us information
that uh there's a law suit that is being
settled Gilbert's portion of the refunds
are likely to be about $1.5 million so
more than we
anticipated this means that the levy
that is proposed here is not enough to
cover all of our anticipated expenses
next year and we will need to dip into
our reserves in order to make all of the
payments but there is that is why we
have the Reserves we should still be
able to maintain our 5% minimum with the
proposed rate uh Levy here it would
maintain the the same rate that uh
citizens had last year which is the 98
cents exactly per thousand or per $100
of assessed
value the upcoming Milestones tonight we
have our budget study session which is
the opportunity it's the first
opportunity of council to talk together
in the open public meeting and give any
direction um to staff about changes that
might be wanted and have those questions
in dialogue tonight at the regular study
at the regular council meeting we'll
have the um public hearing for our
property tax levy um there's not a
decision that's made there unless
Council wants something different in the
documents that will be coming for final
adoption um but that will be the first
public hearing there at the May 21st
meeting will be preliminary budget
adoption that will set the maximum
amount uh for the budget for the entire
year and it will be the CIP review also
that night then on June 4th is final
everything final budget adoption final
CIP adoption and final tax levy
adoption and with that I'm happy to open
for
questions thank you Kelly very nice to
hear from you actually hear from you um
who would I was a Chuck joke I think I
need to put money in the jar for that
one sorry um does anyone have any
comments or questions to start off with
Kelly to start off this discussion
tonight Council thank you m Kelly can
you bring up that first slide again or
first or second Slide the one that
showed um
the the one it showed um 52% of
recommend
recommended 54%
okay which which
um Department per
se
um had the most not recommended you
understand understand what I'm trying to
say here yes I don't know that off the
top of my head um when we deliberate we
don't talk about it by who's getting
what percentage we talk about individual
budget packages what is the Merit of
this package versus what the other needs
are in other departments and so it
varies by year uh I can look it up and
get back with you but I don't know
specifically please do thanks
okay other questions comments vice
mayor Kelly just uh just for the record
would you go through again why when our
residents receive their tax bill it
shows that it has gone up even though
our rate has not gone up happy to uh so
the it is a rate based on the property
value so if the value of your property
increases then the dollar amount that
you pay would increase even though the
rate is the same um and most property
there's a cap property values can
usually only go up by about 5% um per
year so most property does that um but
usually doesn't go up more than
that thank you when we get into a
negative that's when we start to
worry we hope that the town property
values don't Decline and start to have a
negative that's bad for everyone yeah
thank you yes those rates are based on a
full cash value versus a limited cash
value and the assessor's office is in
charge of that and it's actually F that
5% falls under state law that even the
assessor cannot modify in any way shape
or form so you can be guaranteed pretty
much that if your home doesn't meet that
full cash value that your home will go
up 5% no matter what and it doesn't have
to do with the real estate value of what
you could sell your house for this is
the assessed value through the
assessor's office sorry it's my Hot
Topic I I am like yes I have this like
drilled in at this point council member
torguson I'm curious we we lost 73
million uh in shared revenues for
2024 uh council member Tuson that's the
total amount that we received okay so we
received 73 million we're uh likely to
receive about $60 million of State
shared income tax in okay so that'll be
a reduction of about $14 million next
year and the year after another nine or
so yes correct yes and we're losing $8
million $8 million in rental tax
yes and we're making that up where
some of it we knew was coming uh like we
knew with the state shared income tax
that that fiscal 24 would be an
abnormally High year just with how
everything came together uh in changing
the formula from 15% to 18% in how much
is shared to cities and towns uh and the
flat tax rate hadn't gone into effect
yet and so we counted on about $15
million as onetime money when we built
fiscal 24 so we did it just with onetime
projects and that helps us so that we
didn't have to do cuts into fiscal
25 on the residential rental it is
decreasing the amount of our sales tax
we're continuing to grow in sales tax um
so it's given us a little bit of
offsetting um and as you're aware we
traditionally under budget our sales tax
because it is the most volatile and then
if it comes in strong or higher than we
anticipate we use it for onetime
projects in the upcoming year so these
decreases are crunching our budget but
because of our preparation it's mostly
on the onetime side uh and then we just
don't see the growth for additional
ongoing funds moving forward from here
um which is difficult on our Personnel
or our operating
side yeah
mayor council member juson that's
something we plan on talking about in
the upcoming fiscal year because going
forward we do see ongoing funds being
exceptionally tight and we're going to
need to discuss where we can potentially
find new revenue streams to keep up with
service level demand
hands any other comments questions at
this time council member tilki thank you
mayor thanks Kelly I appreciate you
breaking out for the public the um how
we do things a little differently and
the fact that it's 1.6 billion on the
CIP projects that's not our operating
budget and so I I appreciate you
mentioning that I'm just mentioning it
again because I think it gets very
confusing for the public as they as they
look at this as it comes out in the
different Medias um I just wanted to
mention that um and Don thank you for
getting back with me um as I was looking
at um the high level budget numbers I
didn't see anything that looked like um
uh budgeting for a website or the
enhanced uh 311 um um software that we
use to communicate and I was um told
that we're evaluating that this year so
there's no funds in it being allocated
but it hasn't been lost it was an
important component of our
Communications subcommittee last year
and I just wanted the council to know
that that piece hasn't been lost just
because it's not funded yet thank
you other comments or questions at this
time whoops con Buckley the other one
thank you um I don't really have any
questions mostly because your staff has
been fantastic and giving me tons of
information I have the update book and I
have the 2025 budget book and I have
about eight other books and I just want
to say thank you for all of this
information and uh making this easy for
me thank you
so uh I have one other one other item um
oh I did want to say and I hope every
everybody you know I wish more of the
residents were here because I am really
happy we were able to keep our
0.98 tax levy so that's that's a that's
a big deal right now with everything
else that we're that we're having to do
but thank you
counc member torguson um just because
you know I did not bring it with me the
uh the new hire packet how much is that
total per
year I'm sorry ask again the new what
the the new hires the the the jobs that
are coming on um about three and a half
million do in the general
fund I can't remember what it is total
across all funds off the top of my head
thank
you any other comments or questions at
this time
I think we extended this study session
so that we could have enough time to
make sure that we had time to discuss
this budget with Kelly so I just want to
make sure that everybody's asking their
questions and making their comments now
since Kelly very eloquently pointed out
this is the first time that all seven of
us have sat down to talk about budget
for this
year seeing
none council member Toki thank you mayor
um I don't have a question but um I just
wanted Echo comments also that Kelly and
the staff has been amazing at answering
all of the questions that we've had and
gotten back to us on a timely manner and
I think from from my perspective that's
why I don't have a lot of questions up
on the Das
tonight thank you I appreciate that
thank you council member kabowski
thank you Kelly I do have one question
um when there was uncertainty during the
years of the pandemic you had given up
presentation about how there were
certain Gates built in if certain
revenues weren't coming in as strong as
we thought they
were do you feel that with the reduction
and loss of some of our revenue streams
that we're going to need to have a
midyear evaluation of budget um based on
that kind of philosophy of having Gates
great question thank you council member
kabowski uh during the pandemic we were
very uncertain about our Revenue what
our revenues would look like uh and
sales tax can change on a dime it is the
majority of the money that pays for our
general fund Services which is Parks
police uh Council budgets it HR all of
those types of things and so we want to
be very careful that we have the money
to be able to continue those operations
to do that we've continued to be very
conservative on our sales tax estimates
which is where most of our Revenue comes
from for general fund so for the fiscal
25 budget that's before you we have
projected uh $142 million of revenue
from sales tax current fiscal year will
probably get about $157 million of
Revenue so there is a Delta there
recognizing some of that loss will be
the residential rental um that will go
away our uh anticipation is that we will
be able to get at least $142 million of
Revenue if that's the case there's no
changes that we need to make into fiscal
25 everything will align perfectly if if
anything comes in above that then we'll
have onetime money for projects as we
build the fiscal 26 budget it just helps
us to have a little more time to react
and prepare if there are changes in
sales tax but there can already be a
decrease in our sales tax and we won't
have to make a change to fiscal 25 thank
you council member Bon gavani thank you
mayor um Kelly what kind of
um the supply chain issues in inflation
um can you
compare the last six months months with
the six months before that are you
seeing any kind of Delta any kind of
change in that at
all I would need to phone a friend
somebody in operations because they are
a little closer to the actual contracts
and
invoices Kelly if I could take a first
stab at that mayor council member bani
really depends on the service line and
the supplies such as uh fire apparatus
we know we still have a particularly
long lead time police cruisers in
particular some manufacturers have uh
placed a hold on any new orders um so we
continue to evaluate those uh but it
really just depends by service line on
what we're seeing we we do see some
normalization uh in some areas I just
say overall we are we seeing anything
flatten at all yeah we're starting to
see some normalization in things that
had become problematic uh post pandemic
thanks council member Tuson uh just
because we've done a little differently
this year than last year and not I was a
little out of sync last year uh if I
look at something and let's just
say I think that one area is over or
extremely under budgeted when is the
time and proper place to bring that
up it's always good if you just have
questions to get more information in
detail as we're preparing for this
meeting that's a good time to get
additional information on specific um
budgets um if it you can always bring it
up in this this meeting uh and let us
know if you're concerned about a
particular area um we can take a look at
it we probably can't I don't know how
much information I have off the fly on a
particular Department to be able to
answer um right here but this is a good
opportunity to pick it up it's also a
good opportunity in any of your one-on
ones with Patrick to let him know that
you're concerned about a particular area
of town and then we can work during the
budget process to make sure that it gets
addressed so anytime the sooner the
better right well I did ask for some
information the other day I think you're
compiling it so when that's
ready I think we mailed that out to
council last week uh with all of the
department uh expenditures okay I missed
that one so I do need to find that okay
okay I would be a little more prepared
if I had seen that email I must have
left swiped it
sorry I'll wait to look at it before I
bring it up I apologize on Thursday is
where you'll see that email
that I I finished thank you I just
wanted to make sure um just for the team
in the back room my my
um my screen up here is not indicating
which council member speaking it says
council member one council member two
council member three not by name so just
for it maybe we can take a look at that
at the end of the study session please
and it looks like the screen I'm not
sure if the screen has our names or if
it says one because I can't see it from
here but um just to help anyway so that
was a great lead in council member tarus
and thank you I wanted to ask about the
fact that we had discussed at one of the
council Retreats and adding funding to
the mayor and Council budgets for
discretionary spending whether it be
employee development um council member
development in this case um or for use
for other for in other ways and so I was
really opposed to that at the time still
sit here opposed to that and
after seeing the email from Melanie with
the requests from our nonprofits and
where
$430,000 that we're giving to nonprofits
isn't going very far these days that I
would prefer that we take the
discretionary funds that we're going to
add to the Council budget and move them
to the nonprofit so that we could maybe
help more organizations in a in a better
way in my opinion I think that because
Melanie's system is so good at taking in
the applications that she takes in from
nonprofits and distributes those funds
in such a way that they get where
they're really needed I would be more
comfortable with that so I just wanted
to throw that out there I know we
discussed it at the retreat I I know it
got kind of tossed around but I don't
know that it was actually decided but I
believe that it's included in the budget
to increase mayor and council's funding
for discretionary
funding uh was
that the discretionary funding was it
that large of an amount well I think it
would have been about $48,000 total to
Mayor and council with 12,000 to Mayor
6,000 to each council member if I did my
math correctly and that doesn't include
the um concession that we get every
month your pay you mean yeah no that's
on top of on top of everything else okay
okay and right now we're at 2,000 or
3,000 for mayor 600 for Council Members
or 800 for Council Members I'm sorry I
don't remember what it is and Kelly I
know you sent me an email and how much
was are they wanting a nonprofit 49 no
they have 430 already allocated from the
email that Melanie sent out that's how
it's been for several years and it just
doesn't go very far we had to say no or
give less funding to many nonprofits
this year compared to last year and the
year before that because everyone
expenses are increasing and I would
rather see us use that th that funding
in a in a different way to go to the
nonprofits um I I I don't have an issue
with that either way myself but my my
thoughts are also you know we're
adjusting our budgets you know I mean
we're all having to adjust our budget
and we don't know we I mean did they
just ask for for that or is that just I
mean did they come and ask us for more
money is that what they did the
nonprofits the nonprofits have to apply
through Melanie's office each year and
they make a request and then we have a
group internally that goes through all
of those requests and decides how much
we can meet if we will fulfill a request
for a nonprofit or not Melanie sent us
an email the other day with it all
detailed as to which nonprofits will be
getting funding and which will not be
getting any funding which will be
getting adjusted funding from last year
maybe less or maybe getting half what
they asked for maybe half what they got
last year even because we're trying to
spread the funding more to more
organizations which is wonderful but at
the same time it's less to the
organizations too yeah yeah no I mean I
I understand that and I want us to help
but I just feel
that we everything I mean there could be
no end to I mean we could give them a
million you know um or or whatever but I
I just I'd like a little bit more time
to I'd just like to look have a little
bit more time to look at what they're
requesting well we don't make the
decision on who's getting what with what
they're requesting it keeps it out of
council's hands which I think is a much
better process it goes strictly through
Melanie's office she gets the requests
and then they have a group that goes
over all of those requests I'm asking
that next year's budget we increase the
funding from
$430,000 to potentially a little bit
more so that there's more money to go
around to the nonprofits instead of
allocating discretionary funds to the
council I'm opposed to the discretionary
funds to the council either way and if
we are going to put those funds into our
budget I would rather see them go
someplace where I think they could do
more more good that's my opinion on
this okay how you're saying a little bit
more do you mean maybe
450,000 or 500 460 something like that
just the difference between what we're
getting now as Council to what was being
recommended for Council okay it's not
very
much okay well yeah I I you know I H I
haven't totally looked at this so I just
wanted to maybe get some questions
answered have they adjusted their budget
at all we don't look I'm not looking at
each nonprofit's budget that's not our
role they asking for a certain amount
for what they're requesting and then
Melanie's group looks at how much we're
going to be able to offer them okay so
can after the meeting or can I meet with
you Callie and and check on that and
look at that yes happy toet I would like
to do that yeah and if there is a change
that's requested of council we will I
need that to be a change from the
majority of council and then I can
update documents for preliminary budget
yeah right it would have to be a
majority of us agreed to that change so
that Kelly could then adjust the budget
that way so that when it comes back in
the future in the next few weeks that we
would have it to look at from that
perspective who oh council member Toki
sorry I don't I don't have names so I'm
going to have to look at microphones
thank you mayor um if I'm understanding
we had for Council it was 3,000 and now
it's 6,000 that was um deemed as
discretionary income uh none of us even
knew we had discretionary income so it
wasn't ever spent so it's not like we've
been spending anybody's money but um I I
think because it's the first year I'm
still a little confused quite frankly if
what's going to be um what's charged for
if you go to conference is that part of
your discretionary fund or is that a
separate fund so I think when we looked
at the discretionary fund I thought it
was so it would cover certain
conferences which is development for the
council and I thought that was getting
close to
the dead oh oh no I'm alive again
sorry um so I I think that that was how
we came up with that it's not just
discretionary income that we take in our
paychecks or you know any of that so um
I I think I would like to see how that
works out a little bit before we we made
a change to that that would be my only
suggestion but to your point of I do
think we need to be looking at what we
um allocate for nonprofits there's a lot
of need out there everything that we've
done through our community engagement
task force shows the number of
nonprofits that assist our community
every single day and we give just a
little bit of money towards those and
the the cost savings on the back end
when you can take care of issues early
on through our nonprofit saves our
community a lot of money and so I would
like to
explore raising that amount for
nonprofits maybe give it this year to
find out how this really works since
we're going to be taking dollars out of
that discretionary fund if you go to the
League conference or some of the
national ones but um that would be my
recommendation a great great point and I
didn't get that far in the conversation
which is um I was left with an
uncomfortable feeling after our Retreat
that it was going to be discretionary
funds not knowing how they were going to
be used what they were going to be used
on how you were going to ask for those
funds if it was if it was for
development that's fine but we don't see
council members going to conferences
except for the League conference $3,000
should be way more than what is
necessary to go to The League conference
locally this year especially it's in
Phoenix
the built more I think um
so I don't think any of us have been
using the funding that has been there
like you said it's not funding that's
been used over the years and so to just
increase it was what I was having a
really hard time with and then how is it
going to be used we are very very very
fiscally responsible here and to just
say we're going to add the over $30,000
to the mayor and Council budget for
discussion or discretionary funding and
not have a manner in which we were going
to use those funds that's what I've been
having trouble with since that point so
council member targon I would also
assume that unused funds get gets
returned and moved forward that with the
council we don't work on the same zerob
based budgeting system so the same
amount stays in the Council budget
moving forward and it doesn't
necessarily go away if it doesn't get
used after so many years because it is
the Council budget and years change and
things change and different things pop
up but in the future let's let's say it
acrude x amount of dollars that money
could be put back into the general
fund well it's not it's not money that's
not you it's money that's not used but
it's budgeted for but but we could
change the budget in the future yeah
mayor council member toris and any
unspent funds would roll into the
general fund itself the same amount of
money would be allocated uh to your line
items for the following year same amount
unless changed on the budget same the
money unspent money for instance this
year I probably spent zero I mean unless
you went to a conference you went to two
conferences so you spent a little right
but I said discretionary anything I
think I broke a case right uh I don't
even know what's sitting there but that
would go back into the general fund and
another $800 or whatever it is allocated
for the next year MH Kelly will gladly
zerobase your budget for you no no Kelly
no we do Z based council's budgets but
usually it's if the cell phone cost
increase we add just a little bit more
um and and we have taken it out in the
past because nothing was getting used
but we do try and keep each of the
council member budgets the same amount
so that it's equal across the board and
then Mayors is typically a little bit
more yes and we and I mentioned to you
recently that there's not specifically a
line item for the state of the Town say
and the it's mandated that the mayor
hosts a state of the town but there's no
budget for it so you asked me how much
we spent and it was just out of the
mayor's budget but we only spent like
$200 because I don't have a budget to
spend so you know that's how responsible
we are the money is not there so I'm not
going to spend it I'm not going to go
spend $5,000 on a state of the town when
I don't have $5,000 budgeted to spend on
a state of the town which would be
ridiculous we can get you contingency
for whatever you need mayor I'm good
thank you I'm cheap when it comes to
that kind of stuff but um that was my
concern was how it was going to be used
when it was going to be used you know
where it was going to be used I don't I
want to know where the fund are going
and what we're going to be doing with
them so oh I got names back on my screen
whoever fixed that thank you um council
member
Kowski um thank you for bringing up that
topic I think that what I would be
comfortable giving Kelly Direction on is
that in general I would support
increasing the amount we give to
nonprofits but I would want the
direction to be more to staff to
determine where that budget could come
from it could come from some of the
amount that came from the mayor and
council's um continuing education funds
but that's a very very small amount that
I'd like to increase the amount to the
nonprofits even more and I know we're on
a super slim budget right now um but I
would be open if we have a majority to
give direction to um explore if we can
scrape up a little bit more to bolster
the nonprofit um amount and then come
back to us on like where that might come
from
thank you for that support I I'm going
to say that when I came on the council
in 2015 we were literally trying to
dwindle down the amount that we were
giving to nonprofits and it was on a it
was on a slope to go down to zero and in
the 2015 2016 budget mayor Lewis pushed
us back the other way and 2016 2017 we
came to this
$430,000 Plateau that we've now been at
since that point and
as we've seen over these past several
years there's been such a change in
everyone's budget and the need Gilbert
doesn't have the facilities within our
community so we rely on these nonprofits
so heavily to provide the services to
our residents whether it's at the
Heritage Center Ascend and all of the
great work that they do within the
community with the need for um rental
rental assistance right now and utility
assistance right now because of the
increases to everyone that everyone's
facing talk to our old friend judge Ray
um evictions have increased 400% in his
court
400% in his court since he's been there
so that's alarming right and um we're
providing a very small assistance to our
residents in some way for them um do we
have other vice mayor would you like to
comment um my expectation is if if we
make more money available that the staff
would look very closely of the
philosophy of funding these nonprofits
do we are we going to Target certain
nonprofits and give them more money or
are we going to spread it out to more
nonprofits uh I think that's something
they're going to have to take a look at
thank you and I think that's something
that Melanie looks at very closely
already with her team and if you go and
look at the report that she sent us just
over the past week I want to say it was
Wednesday or Thursday of last week um
it's always under the priorities that
the the council has set and it's really
focused on the priorities of the
community engagement task force from
when I when I was reading it last week
and to see the amounts that we're that
we're really cutting to make sure we're
trying to hit more but we're doing less
to each one so if there's a way that we
can really assist with that um Don did
you want to make a comment on that thank
you mayor vice mayor Anderson um it is a
process that the teams go through we
also include outside entities nonprofits
as a part of that process to assess the
needs um it is based on the needs
assessments that we do for the community
um we're in the process of doing one now
and that sets the areas that we look at
for how those nonprofits get that
funding yeah the last um needs
assessment we set priorities based on
how that assessment that survey came
back and those were the priorities that
they worked with moving forward any
other comments on this topic council
member torguson not on that topic of all
wait until people have said what they
need to say um mayor I think if we're
going to ask the staff to look at
raising the amount we should give them
an amount and so do you remember what it
is that what what what did we give 4
430,000
430 so are you talking 500 I would love
to go to 500 I was being really cheap
and going like 450 or 460 I would love
to go to
500 just to get some context the total
requested amount was over
800,000 there's no way we can do that
and I think the more we give the more
that will be requested anyway right so
we would never be able to meet that but
um 500 would be wonderful I'd say can we
start with that uh from the council and
see if they can raise some
money you're going to be looking for
dust bunnies but as for Kelly's telling
us there's less and less money every
year we're asking you to find more so
look to find about $70,000 to add to
nonprofits did you want to make any
adjustments to the council budgets or
leave them as they are I would like to
leave them exactly like they have been
and I don't know if I have support on
that and not increase
them I would be okay with
that as as long as we're keeping track
and we're not going to all of a sudden
not be able to go to the The League
conference because we've overspent
somehow and so that's my only concern I
I I get what you're saying the dollar
amounts but they add up pretty quick if
you do more than one conference but um
if we keep it at what is it 3,000 and
6,000 um I'm all right with
that so mayor and Council I it's it's
not 3,000 currently right now there's
800 in each of the council individual
employee development budgets but what
there was there was an additional amount
I want to say 8,000 but I'm sorry I
didn't didn't have it in front of me to
reference but I want to say it was 8,000
that was used for conferences and those
types of things but it was in the
collective office budget so then what we
would do is then allocate it after the
fact based on who attended what so it
wasn't in each of your individual
budgets but so so you know whatever the
majority gives us Direction and wants to
do we can we can work it out that way
but that's how we budgeted it previously
so it was 800 per council member more
for the mayor plus the
8,000 budget for every for all of the
council members yeah and I'm I'm not
promising mayor that those numbers are
exactly correct but it was right around
there and I want to say like 2,000 for
for the mayor or something along those
lines thank you I thought yeah I thought
something like that and um since I've
been on Council until last year I was
the only one that went on a conference
other than the mayor I mean as a council
member
literally nobody else went anywhere so
um there hasn't been a lot of travel is
my point and even for the League
conference we didn't have a lot of
council members going to The League
conference and staying so it has worked
up till this point and I know prices
have
increased well I think we had three of
us at the right at the national yeah at
the national last year that's the first
time till last that's what I said nobody
had traveled until last year yeah and
well I'm I'm even thinking of the one in
Tucson yeah and then the one in Atlanta
and one around yeah yeah so there there
I think we're a little different conf um
Council now uh from the perspective of
that we are committed to educating
ourselves in in and um taking the time
to do that um so I I I think if we still
went back to 3,000 that would still I
think individually get us to two
conferences if we chose to um for this
year and maybe there's a little money
Kelly if you're keeping track um and and
the mayor would three be enough for you
for your position or do you think six
three no three is not enough for the
mayor not if you're going to go to the
conferences that right are offered right
because uh there could be DC trips and
things like that so six you're good yeah
probably six three and six if that works
and 500,000 looking for
nonprofits yeah could not I have a
question so what about
the oops sorry about that what what
about the trips for like sister cities
and stuff like that where do the funds
come those those are not covered okay
those are out of your pocket if you
attend okay so for the okay okay I just
thought I'd check on that so there
really isn't nearly as much money for
the council as what you thought was
there so this council is asking for more
money to be added and when we discussed
it at a retreat several months ago it
was asked for discretionary funds to be
used and that's the part that I was
having trouble with I do not want
funding sitting here that council
members can just ask to use for anything
a pet project let's say and I know that
happens in cities and towns all over
this Valley that's not Gilbert and
that's that's the part that I was having
trouble with oh well that thought never
went in my mind but now I'm going to
think about
no uh I never thought of of anything
like that but um I I I agree I mean I
think some of the conferences I really
want to make sure that we're able to go
to more if if if if they're going to be
informative and help our development and
stuff than just the The League
conference I mean I wanted to go to that
but so if something out of the ordinary
comes up that would be very benef
official for all of us is there can we
put something in there that we could
talk about that and see if we can find
the funds for that or I think the
funding's already there if if it came up
it would depend on the cost obviously of
what the what the event was and how many
people actually wanted to go and like I
said until last year nobody on the
council had was traveling except for the
mayor so it would and and myself as a
council member but otherwise there
wasn't any body traveling so this hasn't
been a major discussion it kind of makes
me wonder if they even knew they had the
ability to do that did they yeah they
chose not to or they had maybe gone once
before I came on councel and decided it
wasn't something that they wanted to
do well I I like Young's suggestion what
she she suggested so I guess it's
just somebody that comes up with a
motion there's no motion it's study
session we just have to give Kelly a
consensus of um what we're looking for
so $500,000 for the
nonprofits and um to
increase the mayor's
travel to 6,000 is that what you said
council member toy and council members
to 3,000 which I still think is way too
much
but I'll take a deep breath and um just
to make a statement I'd say that this
council is more engaged than absolutely
anybody in the past so in many ways yes
in many ways yes and
but there's the town having to pay for
it is the issue for me and that's been
the sticking point for me all along I've
paid for all of my trips for the USS
Arizona I've paid for my trips for
sister cities I did have the town pay
for my hotel for the last sister cities
trip but I paid for my airfare I have
paid for almost all of my travel the
whole time I've been on Council except
for when I went to NLC in the League
conference
so it's a it's a it's a it's it's the
fact that the town has to pay for and
the taxpayers are paying for it and I
can remember myself being chewed out by
taxpayers for traveling on the town's
dime so I'm trying to be very cautious
of that right at the same time those
same taxpayers are going to be upset
that would spend 70,000 more giving to
charity rather than letting them give it
to charity yes you're right because they
wanted to get rid of it in
2015 yeah
yes that's my
problem I know that the way we do it
through the town is the best way for our
nonprofits to receive the funding for
what we need done specifically as
Gilbert that's how I see
it um council member Kowski yeah I just
wanted to maybe wrap up the conversation
on this since it unless we have other I
think more pressing budget comments but
from what I heard a majority of us are
comfortable with giving Kelly direction
to find an ADD add
$70,000 for the nonprofit budget and we
are willing for some of that budget to
come out from the mayor and council's
newly discussed allocation which was
discussed at a retreat last year and
well you'll probably have to look at
other buckets because that wasn't
sufficient for that full
70,000 we Doo thank you thanks
Kelly counc member tus do you have more
comments no council member Bucky did you
have more comments on the budget any
other comments or questions on budget
with
Kelly thanks Kelly thank you appreciate
you great presentation next we're moving
on to the excuse me Gilbert Parks and
Recreation master plan executive summary
presentation
they're getting in place her mayor
Peterson and members of the council
thank you so much for this opportunity
you have been hearing from us for the
past 18 months about the Parks and
Recreation master plan so I personally
am very excited to bring this to you
today my name is Lane Graham I'm the
recreation manager for Parks and
Recreation Department I have had the
privilege of leading the department
through the master plan I a privilege
with a smile still
uh I would I would not have been able to
do it without our entire department so I
just want to give a a big thanks to the
entire department as well as the
committee so Laura young Heidi kamish
and Denise meren who have made it look
easy and seamless through this process
and stood by my side so all right um The
Parks Board ADV Parks Advisory board if
any of them are here also just want to
give a big thanks to them they've been
extremely supportive and involved
actively throughout the process
okay uh as you know the the 10-year plan
that we currently have was developed in
2014 and that was a unique plan that saw
Gilbert through a lot of growth and
expansion we find this plan to be unique
as well that this plan will potentially
see Gilbert through the buildout of our
town so from 2024 to
2034 the de development of this plan
started in November of 2022 feels like a
very long time
ago um and we selected a consultant team
of J2 design design lab in Barry Dunn um
today you'll be hearing from Barry Dunn
and Lead You Through the executive
summary which I did send you in an email
to be able to preview as well I have
some nice handouts that I'll bring up
while he presents um and hits all the
high points of our executive summary
what the department has been through our
mission from the very beginning was to
as you are aware was to hear from as
many people in the community as we
possibly could we're very proud of our
over 60,000 touch points that were
received um in our community outreach
and like I said it was an entire
department we also wanted everyone in
the town and in our department to know
that our parks and record department was
going through this and to BU provide
input so uh from February until July we
were kind of a traveling Road Show and
had attended HOA um summer parties we
attended alsoo a night of of giveaways
and engaging with people at Oso we gave
her away free ice cream at six different
locations in Gilbert um we had a 17ft
traveling mural that we took to all of
our neighborhood parks um we had a goal
of meeting the community where they were
and I felt we were very successful in
that and getting those 60,000 touch
points so we're very proud of that um
this plan will guide our department in
decision- making for the next 10 years
so I'm excited for you to hear where
we're at and very done guide you through
this process to see the executive
summary but also to hear your feedback
and your input on this plan so with that
I will bring up our consultant team lead
from Barry Dunn Jason gank and then I
will hand you out a printed summary if
you didn't have time to look at
it okay you ready
Jason thank you Lane good afternoon
mayor and councel thank you it's a
pleasure to see you all again and uh
really what an exciting day and I do
appreciate you rescheduling the entire
study session on Parks and Recreation
today thank you obviously just kidding I
just find it interesting at these
opportunities going through these
planning processes I get the honor to
present to you whereas it's your entire
staff your entire staff has worked so
hard in this planning process um I get
to lead our practice at Bon which is
cool but my most favorite job is to be a
project manager I mentioned I get to
lead it because we do hundreds of these
projects all over the nation and I want
to tell you I have never seen the amount
of time uh uh
Innovation uh openness support and even
Challenge from your team to make sure
we're doing the very best for the town
of Gilbert and so that just makes me
really proud uh and I wanted to make
sure that I conveyed that and and Lane
certainly already mentioned our local uh
team members as well of J2 and Design
Lab but again we couldn't do it without
that full Consulting team support so I
think what you're getting handed out now
as a copy printed copy of the executive
summary okay awesome and the full
document so outstanding so what I'm
going to do right now is just kind of
walk you through the Journey a little
bit but really look at some key
highlights uh and you've seen some of
this before so I'm not going to spend
too much time going through the full
slide deck but I'm happy to pause and
emphasize some key areas but from a
project uh an overall project and
service area uh these are the key areas
that we analyzed essentially your team
challenged us to do about everything
that we do to analyze communities to
make sure we're doing the very best and
a comprehensive approach uh to review
all of these service areas and I'll talk
about some of those areas and some of
those service areas we highlight through
the
presentation but plan where you play was
the brand was the um creative Innovation
actually specifically created by a staff
member Lane was that you no can't take
credit for that okay well your staff
team created that we try to inspire and
it's certainly just a way to pop uh and
hopefully connect with the community and
organiz ations to be clear about what
the planning process is about and in
fact it's about the idea and the
imagination the inspiration to find
better ways to play and future ways to
play in Gilbert and I thought again
staff did a tremendous job on creating
an Innovative and unique uh brand and
connection for your
community so there are some key project
Milestones there is quite a bit more
outlined in the full project document
but essentially starting Believe It or
Not November 22 and I had to triple
check that but that's all along we've
been on this journey together and I just
highlighted some key Milestones with
your Advisory board with Council uh just
to uh showcase how much time and effort
you've put into this and again thank you
for the one-on ones that we had the
opportunity to do it was a pleasure
seeing you at the fall Retreat uh at the
foundation events saw many of you there
out in the community at all the Outreach
it's really inspiring to see because I
know you have huge jobs and taking that
extra time was really meaningful for our
team so thank you for doing that and so
I do want to really focus on community
and organization centered so this isn't
just hearing the voice of the community
which you did but it's also hearing the
voices across your organization and
making sure we're thinking across the
entire organization we're coming up with
our
recommendations but your team challenged
Us in fact I think it was actually
publicly on the Fly for the folks who at
the foundation meeting uh Foundation
event sorry I was challenged publicly I
think on the hot mic yeah from Robert he
said yeah Barry Dunn is already
committed to doubling the most
engagement they've ever seen in a
community and that sat out 30 over 30
yeah you're saying you remember that
he's like right Jason and I'm standing
there I said uh yeah okay and I knew
what that was and that was 30,000 it was
another organization but in fact as you
know by now when you just heard that's
you've eclip 62,000 touch points in your
community and the field across Parks and
Recreation really has her eye in Gilbert
how do you do that and really the secret
sauce is your staff I know I keep saying
that again and again but when people say
things like hey Jason we really want to
get all this community and organization
engagement just like Gilbert did I said
well great but here's how you get there
and by the way they have the regular
jobs to do too but we wanted to make
sure that we are providing the best
recommendations and the comprehensive
data with your team and so we certainly
appreciate how much they were involved
and there's some key u miles key shares
there on some of the highlights of the
community
engagement and laye already mentioned
many of these I won't repeat them but I
will say some of the maybe ones that
stuck out to me were the creative and
Innovative canvas that was developed
customized for Gilbert that went on the
road all over the community the
playground workshop with with about I
think about 150 or so you youth um 143
there it is youth uh designed
playgrounds to give ideas of their
future Gilbert and just really
impressive and exciting we even had uh
news coverage as you probably might know
a local uh former news news anchor was
covering the story of your planning
process which was which was unique and
awesome so yes there's a few slides here
on your focus groups um there's a lot so
I won't read them all to you but I just
wanted to be clear here again because I
think this is about four slides in a row
on your focus groups how willing your
community was to give their
voice um yes we went to the people
meaning going to popup opportunities
holding virtual things like that but to
see how many focus groups want to have a
voice in conversation and again to your
staff thinking Global and saying who
should we involve and who can we involve
and you can see I'll just mentioned the
sectors outdoor recreation natural
resources adaptive Recreation Sports and
Athletics and I'll slow down a little
bit on each slide if you want to look
any the names but seniors active adults
businesses public health and safety
Aquatics and there's more and I'll pause
for a second
Youth and teens artarts and culture
mom's groups and nonprofits these are
all the groups that I'm sure you already
know who these folks are and you gave us
the opportunity to interact with them I
also should say that uh your community
is very open to having
conversations um I think one couple one
funny memory I have for sure is at an
event and we're talking about Gilbert
and we're about five minutes into giving
input and things oh but I don't I don't
really live in Gilbert but but but I I I
say that I
do yeah because I love it here and I
just love the and we'll get to this I me
The Branding but I just love it here but
is it okay if I give input of course
it's okay if you give input and we
talked right but that was one of my
favorite f one of my favorite moments
and then Coalition members your p3s you
guys do some of the most remarkable work
in public private Partnerships and park
and recreation in the United States we
know that we use Gilbert as a benchmark
for other organizations to consider how
to do it right of course your event Ms
you do so many events your schools and
your partner agreements and I think this
is the last one don't worry uh higher
education and program providers and
instructors so uh again I just wanted to
take a moment to thank all those groups
and representatives from those groups to
have a voice and a say into the future
of Gilbert specific to Parks and
Recreation by the way I also would like
to say the digital team here the city
the town manager's office Dawn most
notably and all the projects meetings I
think so many bridges have been built
even stronger not to say they weren't
already there I want to be real clear
about that you guys do great work but
new voices new opportunities to build
off that marketing that your team worked
so hard on I thought was really really
impressive So yeah thank you to your
team your drive your hospitality your
people and I have I don't know probably
over a thousand photos together with
your team so I just picked a few you see
the kids workshop there a couple of the
events um but but your hospitality to
make sure we did this right to challenge
the norm to make sure we're working
extra hard for your community was very
much inspirational as a matter of fact I
have to say it one of my colleagues Ryan
is in the audience here he's actually
monitoring my time don't worry I am
monitoring my time and he's going to
hold me accountable Ryan's one of the
most Innovative Professionals in the
field and been in the public sector for
over 20 years and one of the reasons he
heard about Barry D was in fact because
of what we were doing at Gilbert the
entire nation is talking about what your
team is doing here for Parks and
Recreation so onto our strategic
initiative we take all this information
and in fact with a full plan document
and all the appendices we didn't
challenge you with all the appendices
because there's a lot of information in
there laye I don't have the exact number
but I'm going to say north of 700 pages
with all the supporting data for your
staff to use for the years to come but
what you do have electronically and also
in your hands is the full plan document
uh as well as executive summary and we
talk about strategic initiatives
essentially being okay great after all
this is said and done what are the
pockets what are the buckets what are
the focus areas that we want to look at
and here they
are so you're going to hear just kind of
a highlight of these and then I'm going
to go into a brief explanation on the
following slides preser preserving our
existing assets and when I walked in
here today I heard you talking about
that from the budgeting process taking
care of what you have Gilbert is one of
the most Innovative Parkson wre and
across the um across the organization
uh Innovation is a key theme and a
commitment creating a connected
Community people want to be connected
more both actually through things like
sidewalks and paths and multi-use areas
but also through social experiences they
want to hear about hear more about your
story and bu continuing to build a great
momentum of you have of your
Communications and digital team we want
to ensure Equitable service and you guys
are doing again a remarkable job um
certified Autism Center is one example
but there's so much more uh we even did
a podcast for a national audience with
your team because of the work you're
doing here around inclusivity that
doesn't mean there's a lot more to do
there always is and we have
recommendations around that and we call
that opportunities for all but you guys
are doing some great work and then
developing our team all these services
that we talk about obviously they can't
happen without having the great public
servants that you have across the
town and something just happened
oh that's it thanks
guys is that how Ryan was monitoring you
he shut your slide Showdown yeah yeah
like I got oh oh there it is there it is
we'll start over just in case you missed
it I'm kidding I'll Advance through it
take
two sorry guys I apologize I I don't
know what happened I'm sure it was my
fault so then moving past to go to some
specific examples of what do we mean
about preserving existing assets and I
won't go through all of these but I will
say that um you're from ouris Val survey
uh nearly 80% of your community does
support putting money back into do
supporting your current infrastructure
that's probably no surprise to you but
we have the research to show it uh and
we talk about maintaining and uh
preserving and to make sure the quality
that you have now the level of service
that you're producing now uh is
sustained as you continue to grow and
that's really what we're talking about
excelling through Innovation you know we
continue to hear that theme and here's
an example of some a think tank that we
did we your team challenged us and we
said you know let's go beyond locally
let's do the region let's do the state
let's do the nation to say you know what
are the challenges for Gilbert and what
are we seeing Across the Nation and in
fact that's what you're seeing for the
emerging Trends and so we know from your
mission and your commitment that you're
bold that you have a culture of
creativity and we wanted to make sure
that was very much a theme of our
planning efforts and our recommendations
for the years to come creating a
connected Community I mentioned that
Hometown feel and now I gave you one
examp example of that but that happen
happen other times people you know every
community that we work with in fact Ryan
actually leads a lot of this Across the
Nation is branding and marketing your
brand is Gilbert guys I got to tell you
at least at least from what I heard I'm
not pretending to know more than you
guys you guys are the experts I'm not
but the secret sauce of Gilbert is
Gilbert that Hometown balanced field
with with smart Progressive grow that
you guys are doing everyone seems to
want to live here uh and even pretend
that they do live here apparently from
some of our interactions so if it was it
was awesome they they want to have
destination facilities and they want to
have unique experiences and you guys do
a lot of that um 92% of residents want
to have multi-use and connectivity in
paths and trails I know uh several
council members talked about that
specifically during the and and cross
Department in the multi-use trail and
transportation master plan which we
looked at as
well sharing our story every town that
we work with in community always says
hey wish we knew more about what was
going on so that that every Community
says that but we do think that we would
recommend building off the momentum that
your team has built with all these great
connections and continuing and growing
and telling that story about that secret
sauce that Gilbert has because you guys
truly and honestly is something very
special going on
here opportunities for all um while you
guys the team does have you have
tremendous parks and recreation
resources that being said we know that
we've we've analyzed your entire system
system we've identified gaps uh and
access and Equitable Services
walkability to parks walkability to
public spaces and we know there's an
opportunity to improve that we're not
saying doing that overnight but we're
saying as you develop as you grow there
is opportunities to have more
connectivity uh but again not just in
the physical side of sidewalks and MTO
use Trails as things along those lines
but also in the programmatic side too
and we talk about opportunities for all
and we've developed a toolkit with your
team to help help guide them uh on
moving forward with uh greater
inclusivity efforts and then I mentioned
developing our team uh the only way all
these Services happen as we know in
local government is with great team
members which you have so what we're
really talking about is just as a as a
population grows what is it going to
take to to maintain our current um level
of service what does that mean and what
is our level of service so part of our
recommendations is certainly those and
we looked at benchmarks we looked at the
operations we did not organization
assessment to really understand how
you're conducting your business and come
came up with recommendations for your
team to
consider then talking specifically about
Capital high priority
recommendations we essentially did an
audit of your system we looked at the
quality of your amenities hand inand
with your staff uh facilities certainly
with some of that Grant you have a
larger facility wide plan that's
underway had was underway at the time um
and then uh but parks specific amenities
and uh and rank those and we also we
have um hundreds and hundreds of points
of data of other systems across the
United States so we can do a good
comparable to give you an idea of what
the quality of the system is generally
speaking your system is in good shape
that being said opportunities for um
higher priority both from this is a
combination of
organization and Community uh input and
priority as well as the assessment of
your conditions and gaps of your
services uh things like Park development
you see is a top priority in developing
your parks and you saw on a previous
slide creating that increased access to
Services by developing your parks and a
host of other things there you're
probably not surprised to see the word
pickle ball there sorry every Community
we work with that word yeah pickle ball
comes up so in fact you're going to see
that there too but that's awesome you
guys have some uh I know that some of
your um constituents they're up before
you know crack of dawn to be waiting in
time to get on that Court first because
that's how much they enjoy those
experiences and then other priorities
these are also median Capital priorities
are things like your skate parks your
your nature centers uh we've had people
say you know what build a second
riparian Park I mean literally okay you
I see some head nods you've heard that
too right they love it so much they want
another one uh More arts and
performances and events people you you
talk about these lifetime experiences
that people have and are impacting their
families those opportunity to gather I I
love that gilbertt sign that you have
and again your brand people want Gilbert
Imaging in those experiences in their
lives and they want to showcase that
through their photos and posts and I
think it's awesome uh just just a few
more slides I know I'm getting a little
short on time I believe here but um
field needs uh while you still have to
balance sort of the Equitable access to
General Parks and Recreation you are
still known like Cactus yards as a
massive Regional destination and an e
economic impact from a um bringing in
travel tourism big time when I go to the
airport a lot to see you guys from
Denver which is where I'm based I did by
the way go to grad school here in the
wonderful State of Arizona just had to
put that plug in there but anyway uh one
of the schools I won't mention which one
that might be a fight right but uh in
fact your community does love also
multi-use areas multi-use Sports Fields
so you do have a deficiency there and
we're also recommending you expand on
that next steps and I'm getting to a
close here my presentation we want to
hear your study session feedback today
uh take any initial questions we can
answer whatever we can today if not come
back to with those answers um we want to
bring back the opportunity hopefully to
uh at your consideration adopt the plan
uh implementation workshops we're
actually getting started that tomorrow
we have a five hour session with your
staff and Ryan and I um as part of our
service and as as facilitators we we do
these types of work this type work all
over the nation we help your staff
developed their first 18-month work plan
around moving forward the master plan
efforts so that's what we're going to do
tomorrow not to say it's finalized not
to say we certainly want to hear all our
input but we have to kind of get started
to start thinking along those lines so
uh just to want to make you aware of
next steps so that concludes my
presentation but uh I just wanted to
emphasize again um I I just the
inspiring work that you guys are doing
how you went through this process how
committed your staff was the industry
has never seen anything like this I want
to be real clear about that Parks and
Recreation um and many of us on my team
members our team members our faculty
members at nrpa director School Revenue
schools You Name It We host nrpa
technology Summit all that stuff have
never seen what you guys are doing and I
know we didn't get perfect I know that
and I want to hear from you but I just
can't get enough kudos to your entire
leadership team as well as how open your
community was with a planning process
thank
you wow I don't even know what to say
Jason
right that was amazing well I love the
Gilbert secret sauce I I think I might
start using that I don't know I like
that um thank you for that presentation
um I remember the day I met you we were
at Freestone rec center it's the first
time we met in person and thank you for
all the work that you've done and
congratulations on hitting that crazy
insane Milestone that Robert gave you
and thank you for all the kudos for our
team because think that they're some of
the best but it's so great to hear from
other people that they are some of the
best and we appreciate hearing that
thanks for all the hard work on this
presentation and um any questions
comments from the
council council member
Kowski thank you Jason for the
presentation and thank you to the
Gilbert team I know that everyone did a
lot of heavy lifting to make this plan
such a big success and I think this was
really one of those ideal um planning
efforts that has now providing us as
leaders and the town with Direction on
how to move forward and and we've
already had some conversations on on
some of that in terms of funding and
implementation I really appreciated the
fact that we had our youth engaged in
the planning effort and I think looking
forward what I'm going to want to see is
how do we show them that we made change
and that they had a hand in change
before they get too old to enjoy it so I
know that's a balance between the
funding and the implementation but I
think that would be another key factor
of success is that implementation within
a time period where the people that were
involved in the plan can then see those
changes as well thank you thank
you oh yeah please thank you council
member corosi and thank you for being
there that day yours of course your was
the most elaborate and most amazing
table um extensive build effort there um
when we got back I think um one of my
kids said well did you build the
playground that I designed that I
designed I'm like oh they really thought
that they were providing that input so I
think it is really important to us that
as we're looking at Desert Sky and other
playgrounds that we have a youth group
that's involved in those decisions and
and guiding it because they are the
users so I appreciate
that thank you Lane um council member
tilky
thank you mayor um this is a great
presentation and it's something we've
been waiting for for a while and um it
is really exciting every time I look at
um opportunities that we go out to our
public you know we we thought we hit the
top of the peak with our general plan
communication and then you guys came
along and blew that away and and so
we've set really high goals for our
community but it's wonderful because I
think it speaks to who we are as a
community that so many people wanted to
be part of this um I know that um I
think it was at our Retreat we had a a
brief update on this and one of the
sections that maybe we don't do so great
on is the um the resources that we have
available to be able to provide all of
those programs that people want or or
the new playgrounds all of these things
and um you know as a uh Community
matures it'll be your turn right you
know I I think that for the last 30
years we've been so invested in streets
and you know water infrastructure and
sometimes Parks gets the back seat and
so I think it is time for um you all to
be recognized for everything that you've
done to knowing that we have limited
resources and that you've been able to
be recognized nationally for all the
great things we're doing I think it's
amazing um I think the only um thing
that I have is that um I know that the
Aquatic Center keeps coming up and I
thought that as a as a council that we
had agreed that we're not in the Aquatic
business it doesn't mean that we can't
be Innovative with P3 programs or
different things like that but I just
don't want
to create the impression that we're
going to build a huge pool down in South
Gilbert that's going to be Town owned
and it's going to be an aquatic center
that you know that is beyond what maybe
people have had in their minds but um I
think we need to continue to examine how
we can partner to get these amenities um
but I think South Gilbert is getting
their own right now I know for the
longest time everybody's thought you
know only North Gilbert got um parks and
whatever but what we're seeing in the
north is that they're aging Parks but
amazing things happening in South
Gilbert so I don't want South Gilbert to
think that they're not being taken care
of thank you yeah uh mayor council
member silki we really appreciate that
and I know we've had the conversation I
think what really today is more about is
that culmination of what the public
feedback was but I think we were very
careful uh when you read through the
executive summary when you read for the
full document we really did not want to
lock counsil in anything from any
direction more so so of here's what we
heard and I think we'll continue to
share that story as we know what what
council's direction moving forward is
and I think even from our past
conversations um there's still a lot of
uh opportunities we have to provide some
of those facilities in a different way
or through Partnerships but knowing um
you know going over the priority list
together was helpful and I think in some
ways we may have jumped ahead because we
had to have that conversation before the
master plan was finished but we had some
of the information already but um really
we we made sure that we we left it more
open for the future conversations with
Council and board so that it didn't
necessarily tie Council to anything from
the master
plan thanks Robert council member Bon
Giovani thank you mayor um being the
town aison for Parks R I just knew that
we would do two times better than anyone
in any other City out there um now I
want to thank you guys for your hard
work I remember one of my first meetings
when I got elected was to sit down with
you guys and and you're telling me about
this and I was like holy cow that's a
lot of work to do and and uh to see it
occur over this last year plus um was
amazing and hats off to everyone on the
team because you guys did an amazing job
and and really went on of your way to
include everybody and I want to thank
the consulting firm also you guys did a
incredible
job council member oh council member
Anderson I mean excuse me vice mayor
Anderson um again thank you very much
for the work you've done I I am a little
bit concern we seem to have spent a lot
of the uh space in the master plan
itself talking about a thing called
opportunities for all and I hope that's
not an indication that for some reason
that internally or externally that we
are in some way engaged in some
discriminatory practices in the town um
that when we spend that much time
talking about that which in other terms
other people refer to it as Dei
it's um something that um concerns me
and I hope we're not going down a path
that you know a a master plan for parks
and recreation in our community I think
needs to answer the question what's the
value of parks in open space and
Recreation programs and we should spend
more time um showing the value of it
whether it's health reasons or there is
economic values for having it and I
would spend more time in the plan on
that than I would on this opportunities
for all tool kit that's outlined in the
plan takes a lot of space in the plan
and so I'm I'm kind of concerned a
little bit about that Robert yeah mayor
Peterson vice mayor Anderson we really
appreciate that feedback we we can take
a look at that I think um you know we
really tried to hit all those 10 topics
that we mentioned and when we talk about
opportunities for all within Parks and
Recreation and our plan in particular
really what we are focusing on is the
diversity of programming from the
standpoint of you know how much of our
programming has that allocation for
adaptive Recreation or seniors or um you
know the playgrounds being shaded and
you know those types of opportunities to
make sure that you know in Arizona you
know having the facilities available
with shade on a playground or having
those adaptive Recreation classes be
available um how long people had to
travel to be able to reach some of those
locations or or classes or Parks
facilities is really where we spent most
of our time and we talked about the
opportunities for all section but I
think it's a very uh great point and
something we can we can take a look at
CU it's just a piece of the larger
puzzle of of the master plan yeah I
think it'd be a lot more toxic a lot
less toxic if we were right
straightforward and said it's access we
want people to have access everybody to
have access not not trying to achieve
some purpose in providing that access
the other question I had you probably
already can guess what I'm going to ask
about because I didn't see it in the
plan is the education center in the
10-year plan I didn't see it I saw some
improvements to the other two sites but
I didn't see the education center yeah
mayor Peterson vice mayor Anderson that
is uh within our Capital Improvement uh
10year plan and I think where it showed
up as we um know that the Nature Center
uh Recreation Center was one of the top
you know requests that we received from
the community so in our minds that was
just part of the decision- making with
um elevating the repair and education
center and something that we even have
an RFP out for right now for Design
Services so it's definitely at the top
of mind for the Department we know it's
a top of mind for the community um and
knowing that those Design Services are
going to be kicking off uh you know
we'll get those rfps back and and
hopefully start that process in the fall
um it's definitely at the top of our
list um and was one of the top of the
list and the priorities but probably uh
may have not shown up from a 10-year
plan perspective in terms of a budgeted
cost um if I'm remembering that page
correctly uh but we can absolutely still
add that to it as as one of those
priorities if we miss that I was very
happy to see the improvements to the
other two sites that are included in
there that's great thank you no thank
you we will we will take a look at that
as a team before we come back to council
for
approval council member
Buckley um okay so I I want to try to
clear something up about and I'm going
to continue to be an advocate for uh a
recre center and a possible pool for
South Gilbert I think that maybe we have
something crossed a little bit and and
from what I remember and recall is that
we were going to leave it there so that
we don't have to start over from the you
know from the the the Talk part and so
when that comes up then we can still
even whether it be you know the the
three years I'm still left here or for
the next Council coming in that we can
still talk about that and um I I want to
make sure that I'm correct and my
thinking is that because it is in there
and it was left in for that purpose no
absolutely and I think those projects
are there really to show um what the
community feedback was with what Gilbert
was looking for with all the extensive
Outreach and our goal was to be
transparent not only collecting the data
but sharing the responses that we
received back uh with Gilbert since they
were so forthcoming with us and having
those conversations but it leaves it
open to discussion uh you know with
Council so when we go over future
priorities and um I'm sure we'll be
doing that sometime soon again when we
start to break down that list of
priorities that we had uh Council you
the team you know management everyone
will have plenty of time to break down
those priorities within those projects
but we haven't necessarily removed
anything this is just showing um the
engagement and what the community
requested so still still a lot of
conversations to be had at how we want
to approach the future development
correct correct I just want to uh make
sure everybody understands why it was
left in there and why why we're doing
that and uh you know that area of course
that's the area I live in uh a lot of
the residents kind of feel like we've
just been left behind you know because
um we don't have all the services and
all the restaurants that that uh North
Gilbert has and I think that's really
important and and the rec center and the
pool if I remember correctly are because
that's what all the residents are
telling me that's one of their top
priorities that they want for the kids
and and that's a that's a huge family
area out
there so all right and hopefully do you
understand why that was left
in May is okay yes
okay um I I think as uh Robert was
mentioning this is just the master plan
to provide us input what residents said
correct my comment was
that I I believe that I don't that I'm
open to P3 opportunities which are uh
private
Partnerships um Public Partnerships
sorry
um that I don't believe that we as a
council have come to the decision that
we would be in the Aquatic business in
fact I thought we said no so that's a
different conversation for when we get
into the CIP project this is just a
report out of what our community
community was saying that's it so right
right and I but I want to make sure that
their voice is still there and and what
they're wanting is still brought up and
not just put aside somewhere else yeah I
think a good interpretation is I think a
lot of times it's hard to keep up with a
700 page master plan so that was also
the intent of why we wanted to do a
executive summary um you know with bar
dun and J2 and Design Lab but that was
more of a 20page synopsis of how you
could encapsulate a you know 18-month
plan into 20 pages that just shows some
of the highlights to Gilbert so I think
you know hopefully what we can do is be
able to share those highlights with the
community they can see some of the needs
some of the things that they requested
um to know that they were heard in a in
a shorter format where they can
understand that but understand there's
still future decisions to be made and
didn't necessarily um blck in any
decisions for it all right thank thank
you no prise council member torgenson I
just wanted to reiterate what Scott was
saying I am tired of pointing something
out as though we have a
problem and it turns me off every time I
hear it and I'm less likely to have open
ears the more times I'm told that we
have a problem we don't have a problem
in fact we should be hiring people based
on the content of their their character
not the color of their skin we should be
providing services for people regardless
and the more I see Dei me Mei
ESG the further I recoil from everything
that's said so I would like you to take
a look at that and see how we're being
inclusive of everybody not just pointing
out a few people that you feel are not
included I I'm going to comment Robert
before you before you say anything
um when it comes to Parks I never even
thought any of this what Vice mayor
Anderson and what council member Tuson
brought up I thought specifically
Gilbert Regional and what we've done
with the different ability um park there
meaning there are different types of um
activities for different users children
that have different abilities and the
fact that we do trucka paloa and the
first hour is completely quiet for those
that have maybe issues with sensory type
situation or um the Gilbert Symphony
where we're doing the separate section
for sensory again those are the types of
things that I thought of when I heard
that and I'm very I think I'm very
conscious of it these days too but um
those are the types of things that I
thought of when I heard this from Jason
and saw this in the presentation I
didn't think anything other than that
and I think especially as a community
and your department in particular who
has been autism certified
and as the community is is working for
the um dementia friendly certification
and uh the clerk's office and Gilbert PD
and Gilbert Fire autism certified I
think that speaks to volumes that we're
looking at as our at our community from
a different perspective we are a younger
Community we know we have over 880,000
kids in this community they're using
their parks and everybody has a
different ability and that's what I
looked at when I saw that
category yeah and mayor Peterson member
Council we we really appreciate the the
comments and respect to to that section
and we'll take the the time uh before it
comes back to take a deeper look into
that and make sure that we're we're sort
of meeting the intention of council with
it thank you appreciate that um council
member tilki microphone on thanks mayor
um in regards to that I believe what
we're discussing is opportunities for
all I think that was just a different
way of saying and I'm just going to give
mayor Daniels the credit because I know
she said a lot that we provide a
community for all abilities and all ages
and I think that's what you were talking
about that's what I thought this was
about um I I just pulled up the that
page very quickly but there might be a
couple of words in there that if
somebody's very sensitive to that they
may maybe take the wrong meaning and so
maybe we should just take a look at it
and because I know that's not what we're
doing here what we're doing is providing
parks
programming amenities for everybody in
our community no matter what their
ability is um or their age and um for
families you know everybody and so I
think that was the intent so maybe
there're just a few words you can look
at no absolutely we'll take a look at
that uh prior to it coming back to
council as
well uh vice mayor
Anderson I'm sure that was the intent
for what programs that we offer but if
you read the full
um master plan it talks about internal
needs also in the staff and I think that
goes farther than access to all so
that's what I'm concerned with and I I
hope that you do have an opportunity to
address
that
got council member torguson and that is
the beauty of this council is there's
different points of view and I'm seeing
this much more likely much more like
Scott sees it and I've seen enough that
I just would like us to really look at
people as individuals not as classes or
anything else at this point and I'm
seeing what he's seeing
so just that's all I have to say about
it
today any other
comments okay I'm going to close up with
saying first Jason brought up Cactus
yards again in this presentation and I
want to say um to Patrick to Chris to
the team that was here when we chose to
take Cactus yards back under the town of
Gilbert thank you and congratulations
for that I mean now it's been about six
years about that right five years okay I
was pushing it um and we have seen so
many rewards in that time that we after
we chose to do that and that was not an
easy lift for any of us and the decision
to make it the time that we did it so
thank you for that and let's give a
shout out to Bob grao because he was
instrumental in that situation too but
thank you for that and thank you for
making sure that Cactus yards run so
well and that it's a highlight when it
especially in a presentation like this
right it's one of our older parks at
this point and it's for for it to still
be a highlight at this point I'm I'm
really pleased for that and thanks for
all you did for this presentation Jason
all of the work that you have put in and
continue to put in big kudos to Lane
because I know that this was a huge lift
for you and um I I especially liked the
free ice cream day I went to free cookie
dough and Peterson's ice cream that day
and stopped by and the residents were so
happy to be out there and just
commenting and talking and telling us
everything that they loved about Gilbert
just like Jason said they just wanted to
tell us everything that was great about
Gilbert and why they loved living here
and I'll tell you a little secret um
I've been looking for a new home in
another city and I went to
speak to a salesperson and the
salesperson said to me in the nicest
possible way why would you want to move
out of
Gilbert she said I would give anything
to move to Gilbert she lives in another
East Valley City I'll just say and um I
said well I appreciate that but grandson
new grandson two words right new
grandson so um just know that everybody
loves being here and even the people
that don't live here want to talk about
Gilbert and how great it is I love love
that story and there are so many people
that want to be galtonian tooo because
of everything that you do every single
day so thank you for all of that
appreciate it we're going to take a five
minute break before we move on to our
next two topics thanks
everybody
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okay everybody I think we're back from
our break bringing us back to our study
session I see Chief soberg standing at
the podium and oh it looks like Chris
Payne has joined him so our next
presentation will be a discussion on a
an ordinance related to brass knuckle
I missed the whole intro sorry sorry
Chief I just said you and Chris were
here to do a presentation on a
discussion on um an ordinance for brass
knuckles yes thank you and I believe we
have the presentation in front of you so
mayor uh vice mayor councel thank you
for the opportunity to talk to you
tonight
about two proposed
ordinances um
we us and Chandler the city of Chandler
are both working simultaneously on uh
these two ordinances in Chandler um and
and in our initial notice we listed it
as parental responsibilities I think is
the the term that that that's on the
unruly Gathering ordinance it's unruly
Gathering the purpose of that is
Parental responsibility parental
responsibility so in the presentation I
focus on unruly Gatherings but I want to
make that connection that that is what
we're talking about here tonight um but
this is um when we get into the unruly
Gatherings doesn't matter whether it's
parents or not it's whosoever
responsible for that property just to
make that distinction and we thought
this was a little more clear so tonight
or this afternoon uh we'll go over a
review of what the other jurisdictions
have been doing and are planning to do a
review of U the proposed ordinance for
unly gatherings and then a review of our
incidents involving brass knuckles and
then the proposed ordinance on brass
knuckles and then the next steps for us
to
follow first of all review of other
jurisdiction's
ordinances in Chandler as I mentioned um
very similar to what we are proposing in
Chandler they currently have an
ordinance and they're looking to update
their ordinance they have an existing
ordinance already so with their unruly
Gathering ordinance um I believe this
month in May they will be reviewing
those changes and theirs will be
gathering of persons or on any PR
private or public property including
property used to conduct business which
constitutes a threat to public peace
health safety or general welfare and it
holds the property owner responsible for
any unruly gathering on one of those
properties it gives them the the ability
if they declared an unruly gathering for
the police to Abate the property to
within reasonable lawful uh means to uh
basically get everyone out of there out
of the party it includes civil penalties
up to $2,500 and a criminal uh up to 180
days in jail 3 years of Probation and
$2,500 fine in Tempe uh in June of 13
they passed their ordinance on nuisance
parties and unlaw unlawful Gatherings
very similar uh holds owner tenant
guests responsible for holding or
attending a nuisance party or unlawful
Gathering it escalates police service
fees uh are assessed so they can recoup
some of their police fees uh when
responding to a nuisance party in
glendel they have had a since beginning
of last year January of 23 very similar
to Tempe almost the exact same
verbage in Scottdale in 2021 they
revised their nuisance parties and
unlawful Gatherings ordinance and with
that it's a owner responsible for uh
permitting a nuisance party or unlawful
Gathering it's civil uh anywhere from
$250 uh up to $2,000
after uh notice those that fee goes up
so a repeat offense the the fee goes up
penalties may be reduced if owner
installs noise mitigation software or
cameras attends to best practices on
rentals and post post conduct rules in
Goodyear un unruly Gatherings uh in 2022
they updated Theirs to show it holds
owner tenant guests and respons guests
responsible for holding or attending a
nuisance party or unlawful Gathering
once again civil penalties uh from
$1,000 to
$2,500 a posting of notice is
required Flag Staff uh nuisance parties
uh that's been on the books for nine
years holds owner tenant guest
responsible for holding uh or attending
a nuisance party against civil penalties
Tucson there has been on the books for
about seven years posting or of premises
required each time an unruly Gathering
occurs holds owner tenant guest
responsible for holding or attending a
nuisance party again civil penalties
plus uh service fees recouping costs for
the police response and in Prescott
Valley underage drinking nuisance
parties holds owner tenant guest
responsible for holding or attending a
nuisance party again several penalties
ranging from 100 to 1500 uh posting a
property upon third and subsequent uh
police responses so into our
proposed um ordinance unruly Gatherings
so this uh I'm not going to read this
whole screen to you um but these are in
the definitions that are from the
ordinance obviously a juvenile
indicating someone who is 17 years of
age and under and then a minor is
considered someone who's 18 to 20 so
when we talk about Minor in possession
of alcohol minor in possession of of
drugs uh that that category that you
have they're of age they're an adult but
they are under the legal age of to
possess those items that are legal in
the
State uh our definition of property
definition of owner um who is
responsible uh for the property and to
point out the unruly Gathering that's
really the who how and what what is an
unruly Gathering an unruly Gathering is
a party Gathering or event on any public
or private property including property
used to conduct business in a manner
which causes a disturbance of the
reasonable enjoyment of private or
public property by any person person or
persons such disturbances include but
are not limited to excessive noise or
traffic obstruction of sidewalks or
streets by crowds or Vehicles drinking
in public the use of possession the use
or possession of illegal drugs The
Possession or consumption of alcohol or
marijuana by miners fighting violence
serious disruptive behavior and
disturbing the peace and or littering
now keep in mind as I read through that
list a lot of those sound like other VI
ations and they are um so this is just a
this ordinance gives us something else
to charge perhaps we don't have enough
probable cause or evidence to support a
criminal charge or we do and we can
charge a minor in possession of alcohol
plus with this ordinance if it was an
unly Gathering we could charge that on
the homeowner as
well so um with the ordinance it shall
be unlawful for a responsible person to
permit an unruly Gathering it shall be
unlawful for for any person to engage in
any conduct causing or GA gathering to
be
unruly again we have the abatement
Clause as the others had which a police
officer May Abate an unruly Gathering by
reasonable means including but not
limited to a citation of violation
violators under applicable ordinances or
state statutes and dispersal of the
persons attending the Gathering it holds
the property owner responsible uh for
unlawful unlawful for a reasonable
person to intentionally knowing ly or
recklessly permit an unruly Gathering
subsequent unlawful Gathering occurs on
the property if within 180 days of the
prior unlawful Gathering notice so a
subsequent charge could um impact uh
what you guys are going to talk about
here in a minute with the penalties so
liable for expense of emergency response
so whether pdu or fire any other
response from the town we can seek uh
reimbursement of fees um that's hourly
wages equipment whatever it takes for us
to uh mitigate an unruly party um that
amount is not set that is a decision the
council will need to make um uh on what
that cap should be if capped or you
could leave it based on actual expenses
uh
incurred penalties is another option for
you to discuss tonight um uh Progressive
civil penalties as I mentioned in
several of the other cities you can have
an escalating uh of let's say 250 500
whatever amount you choose and it can
escalate on um based on additional
violations you can have criminal
criminal penalties and make it a
misdemeanor and therefore you could have
um a crime on the first incident or a
hybrid approach where you have a civil
more than likely civil penalty for your
first offense and then if you had a
second offense within 180 days that
could be criminal there are some
procedural things to consider when you
do that as well if I go to an un
gathering on Saturday night we declare
it unruly Gathering we do a civil uh
citation and then two weeks later
there's another
party that that we have to conclude that
first offense whether it's whether you
go criminal or whether you go civil we
have to have um a ruling um or um
payment of the fine to show that they've
acknowledged that first one before we
could turn that second violation into a
crime so if we are still waiting for
adjudication on the first incident we
would treat the second as civil until we
get confirmation that it's criminal that
the first one's been adjudicated then we
could basically long form or submit a a
criminal citation against the homeowner
for that second one so we'll worry about
those details depending on what you guys
do but there are there is a process for
do for doing either one so that's
another decision for you all to make
tonight is uh civil penalties criminal
or a combination of the two and then the
other remedies is just a reminder as I
said on the last slide we have other
options disordered conduct assault um
minor imp possession there's a lot of
other laws and ordinances that we would
use in conjunction with those with any
violations as
appropriate um do you want me to
continue on or do you want to discuss
this before we move to the next I would
say let's discuss this one before we
move on to the next please um any
comments or questions for chief at this
time council member
Kowski in some of the examples that you
provided from the other
communities it was notable that it
mentioned that the host plus attendees
had responsibility like the host or
owner or tenant or or attendee had
responsibility but what you're
presenting here looks like it's
primarily the property owner can you
explain that a little bit so Chris
correct me if I'm wrong um on this
please uh so mayor and council member
Kowski um so the intent of the ordinance
is the the same so whether it's you you
as a homeowner you host a party that is
declared an unly Gathering or you leave
your 18-year-old son in care of your
home while you go on vacation somewhere
they are the responsible party for that
area if it's an Airbnb or a rental the
tenant if it's an apartment you're not
looking to hold the land homeowner sorry
the mental property owner but the tenant
that's renting that apartment so we're
um I believe our language covers all of
those and that's the intent is that it's
whoever is hosting the party the
responsible person for that party that
that's corrected mayor council members
what responsible person the way it's
defined it's the owner landlord or
tenant or the sponsor host or organizer
of the unlawful Gathering or the event
that's who's responsible if it's a minor
then it's the
parent um it will just kind of go up to
the parents so the parents are
responsible whether or not not they knew
about it if the minor left in charge and
the only exception to that is if there's
illegal entry or trespassing say a
vacant building and someone throws a
party there the owner is not responsible
if they didn't know about it um that's
the one exception to
that okay I have one other comment
regarding um I didn't really see it in
the draft ordinance but on this slide
under unruly Gathering when you describe
the disturbances a lot of these make
sense but the first one excessive noise
or traffic is
very objective
and I I would want to be careful to
include something like that if it's not
a combination with these other elements
or a certain time
period mayor and uh Vice sorry not vice
mayor council member Kowski yes uh these
are just examples of things for us to
consider one in itself doesn't
necessarily uh dictate a violation so
time of day uh middle of the night in
the middle of the day time um we take
that into consideration we had that same
discussion with our existing noise
ordinance we take that into
consideration as well the time the
location the proximity are you in an
industrial area are you in a residential
area so that is just a factor that we
would consider and one of the things
that we would need to document of why do
we believe it's unruly in combination of
if it's it's just excessive noise or or
traffic that doesn't necessarily mean
it's an unruly Gathering we would have
to look at other factors which help
support that um otherwise any noisy
traffic Street we could declare it an
unly Gathering uh but yeah it's just one
factor of
many thank you that was my main concern
if if I could just jump in looking at we
we just got a copy of Chandler's revised
ordinance and they've got very similar
language what they're doing one thing
with tr traffic is they they said
impeding traffic we have traffic we
could if if that would maybe help
Council be a little more comfortable
it's an unly Gathering where traffic's
being impeded rather just than just cars
we could add that if that's something
that would interest you as
well and and Chris traffic being impeded
would be like cars being parked up and
down both sides of the street and other
cars not being able to get through or
people or people so it could be people
or things or bouncy house
whatever the case may be I know that's
more on the little kids but in theory
it' be the same if you're impeding the
flow of traffic whether vehicles or
people or impeding upon your neighbor's
property through the Overflow of gas or
equipment or Vehicles then that would be
a
violation and if I could add one more
comment just going back to the
responsible
person in the ordinance we did draft an
exception so we talked about owners
landlord tenant the hosts they're
responsible the parents if it's a
juvenile but the exception we have is if
it's an owner landlord or tenant if they
were pres of the part um they're not
liable unless they were present if
you're an owner landlord or
tenant or they had knowledge of it and
they didn't take any reasonable action
to stop so that's kind of an exception
if you're an owner and you just had no
idea not a parent parent you're
responsible you had no idea this was
going on they're Exempted from this
unless they unless we can show that hey
you should have done something about it
then they could be held
liable the idea that I try to provide
some type of exception to just a a
landlord that really had no idea nothing
was going
on that just on that one if I might if
it's an Airbnb that I've rented that I
throw a blowout party at the landlord's
not there not pres doesn't know I'm
going to host this party that's one
thing the Airbnb has cameras in it and
the owner has access to those cameras
like a ring camera I'm going to say it's
simple right the owner should know about
that
then if there's a hundred people coming
into the into the home correct and what
it says is an owner landlord or
tenant they can be responsible if they
had knowledge of it and they took no
reasonable action okay to prevent it so
if they saw the 100 people people coming
in and they just went to sleep and
didn't call the police they could be
liable they could be liable under the
statute if that's something that that
the police were able to approve okay
perfect thank you we could look at the
host of the party as well whoever rented
it as well okay because you may have a
situation where they don't have access
to no but they sign a contract that and
in those contracts it usually will spell
out no parties and whatnot so they're in
violation of their contract as well and
that somewhat PR different topic that
would help the owner okay thank you
council member tki thank you mayor um
Chris was there any additional changes
that you noted with
chanders those were the just the two
main ones those were the main ones okay
other than that it generally follows
what Chandler is considering right now
okay I I bring that up because um
council member cowsky and I met with
other council members recently at a
lunchin and um from East Valley Cities
and they were interested in being very
similar if we're going to do these types
of ordinances that were that were
similar so that we're not you know you
don't know what side of the street
you're on and it's completely different
so I just wanted to check on that
um one question and I didn't ask it
before but um when we reference a minor
well the possession or consumption oh
never mind well what okay it says the
use or possession of illegal drugs so
that just means anybody whether you're a
minor or not and then the next sentence
is the possession or consumption of
alcohol or marijuana by miners is that
am I reading that right uh mayor and uh
council member tilki so yes but I want
to emphasize so the use or possession of
illegal drugs an example marijuana is
legal for adults but it's still illegal
for someone under the age of 21 so that
would be while it's illegal drug it's
illegal based on your status your your
yeah okay I think when I read it first I
was thinking that we were inadvertently
saying you minors can have alcohol and
marijuana but can't have those but drugs
are okay I just wanted to make sure that
wasn't what we what was saying so thanks
um in regards to the
penalties
um you know typically we do three time
you know three strikes are out so
usually it's
two um offenses so you get fined and you
get a higher fine third time it becomes
habitual I think is normally how our
ordinances
read uh mayor and councilman dy I
believe that is correct I I don't know
if we have a standard uh Chris I don't
know if you know whether we have a
standard protocol for one strike two
strikes than criminal or uh I I believe
it's up to the discretion of how you
write the ordinance that's correct the
council can can do it any way they want
Chandler Chandler was what their
unlawful party ordinance prior to was
civil only what they're looking at now
is the hybrid approach a one-time civil
fine and if there's a second violation
within 18 months it would be a Class one
misdemeanor so they're really amping up
what their penalties have been it was
never criminal before they're looking at
it now again 18-month window um and what
Chief had mentioned in his pre his
presentation it's after there's a
finding of responsibility is so the
example that he gave a party two
different parties a week apart the
second one you couldn't site criminal
unless they were found responsible for
the first one and then you come back and
you cite them criminal it's a Class one
misdemeanor and up to the courts on you
know what the fines would be potential
jail time and all
that well I I like the the
hybrid Progressive so whether it's CU 18
months is a long time uh in between and
so it is so um I'm trying to figure out
is two plus you know then it's criminal
is that appropriate in this case because
normally I I'm usually advocating from
the business side on something a little
more minor than this um so that's why
I'm trying to get my head around it but
I I like it being kind of progressive
first time maybe not as bad because
things happen right but you obviously
know the second time mayor and council
member till
uh just to point out another difference
between our proposed ordinance and
chanders while there's is 18 months we
have 180 days so 6 months so that's at
your discretion as well so we're looking
at a six-month time period for a repeat
offense
thanks counc member Tason the uh can you
go back to the other uh slide you just
add this one no I think it's the next
one there we we go all right the uh and
and just airbnbs generally do have a a
policy in the in contract with them that
there are no parties they can't have
they can't have cameras inside they can
have a ring that's why I said ring yeah
they can have a ring but they can't have
something inside uh so unless somebody's
problematic unless you're showing that
they have a history of it or they're
advertising it as a party house which
some people do you know I knew a guy in
Arrowhead that did that paid the price
50,000 of damage good for him uh but
when you see excessive noise or traffic
I mean are we working off of the the
Gilbert noise ordinance which we still
have to fix so mayor council member
Tason so that's another uh tool in the
tool belt so to speak of looking at is
it a noise or a traffic issue um in
addition to an unruly we may not have an
unruly Gathering but we have a traffic
issue or a noise issue right it may be a
calm crowd but you're got the uh music
cranked up so loud that you can hear
from a half mile away way yeah but that
wouldn't really make it necessarily an
UNR Gathering that just yeah that's my
point is that you've got the different
ordinances that you could look at in
consideration it's not always going to
be one or the other right because I mean
traffic if you've ever used an Uber
those they refuse to pull over they will
sit in the middle of the street to let
you out don't know why but it's just how
it's done and I don't know if that's
would be considered impeding traffic it
does imped traffic but it's standard
practice correct uh mayor and council
member terson in a oneoff if you have a
Uber or anyone else that's blocking the
roadway that could be a civil violation
in itself if you've got 30 cars doing
that or there's no way for cars to get
around or through a neighborhood because
there's cars either parked or stopped
blocking the roadway then that helps us
build the case for an unruly Gathering
all right and when it says drinking in
public is the the front of the property
considered public or is that their
private property
it's public and I prefer refer that to
to uh because you you get in the
definition of curtilage are they in
their curtilage it depends on whether
there's fencing or not is it open to the
public can anyone walk up to that front
door how I
do no I I think the thought here there
you're listing different types of
disturbances that could contribute to an
unly Gathering I I would think any one
of these in and of themselves is not NE
necessarily someone's drinking in public
now you can get them from ru the
Gathering if they're on the sidewalk
maybe there's public consumption but
someone sitting on the front porch
drinking a beer you're not get to get
unruly unruly gathering on that but that
with traffic lots of people in the
street or the sidewalks once you get
more than one factor I think that's
where the police officer can make that
has that discretion determine hey is
there something more here is this an
unlawful party that's
happening yeah cuz I could see drinking
in the street
as being drinking in public but I mean I
don't care if there's 200 people in the
front yard it's their front yard correct
and and part of it if you look at just
the right above those examples it's you
know property being en used in a manner
which causes the disturbance of the
reasonable enjoyment of the P public P
private or public property so the idea
is not just having a beer on your front
porch if you're having a party and then
it's causing a disturbance in the
neighborhood that's where this could
come into effect if you're just out
there drinking beer on your front porch
with some friends that's not an unlawful
Gathering or an unly Gathering but if
they're if they're loud and they're
drinking beer then you're going to
consider it an unruly
Gathering that's up to the police for
discretion my guess would be allowed and
just sitting on your front porch no not
enough I doubt they would do that at all
yeah so mayor council member T is very
similar to the question that was brought
up earlier um you know if you have one
violation of you know excessive noise or
whatnot we take the totality of the
circumstances is because we have to
build our case whether it's civil or
criminal we have to present what factors
led us to determine that it was an UNR
Gathering one in and of itself normally
would not be enough um but there's not a
magic formula it's one of those you know
it when you see it or hear it and that's
what we have to articulate in our
reports of what are those contributing
factors and it could be in addition to
what you see in the ordinance we can use
other um uh factors to help document um
we we talk about excessive noise we
could clarify that not in this but in
our reports we could actually get a
noise reading there's different things
we can do in addition to this to help
support um declaring a party an unruly
Gathering how many unruly Gatherings
does Gilbert have a year so we don't
have a well I mean specific ordinance
but roughly in my initial scan of of our
calls for the last three years and this
is
not roughly just over 400 between 400 to
450 a year and but that's not just that
could be kids playing in the pool it
could just be a noise disturbance so
it's not we didn't have the ability to
go through our current data to specify
exactly what's that root cause and
whether we took action on those initial
calls it was um basically noise
disturbances doesn't necessarily mean
that it is a
party okay thank you and I would point
out that we have about approximately
like 93,000 residences in Gilbert so 400
a year perhaps if we put that in
perspective council member ban Giovani
thank you mayor um I'm good with the six
months um however I'm also good with
with a hybrid when adults are involved
but I personally think if there's kids
involved and you're having a party and
they're drinking and doing drugs I
wouldn't give them a second chance as
far as that goes for a misdemeanor or
something mayor and council member uh
Bon Giovani there is a way for us to hit
that impact like you're looking at it
could still be a civil penalty for the
UNR Le Gathering but if there's
contributing to the delinquency of a
minor criminal offense if there's
underage drinking or alcohol or drugs
that's an offense on either the
whoever's responsible or those who are
actually doing it so we do have while
it's hybrid and your first offense may
not rise to crime we obviously are
looking for other crimes that are
occurring and holding anyone and
everyone responsible for whatever crimes
we can show so in that case you may have
a civil penalty but e either on the
homeowner or those responsible for the
actions we have additional crimes that
we could occur because let's say you
have a fight a large party gets a a
little too large it we declare it unruly
and there was an assault that occurred
the unly Gathering would get the Civil
violation for whoever is responsible for
the property and then in addition to
that we could hold those responsible for
the assault or disorderly conduct
whatever else we can prove so would be
the person that got involved not
necessarily the property order unless we
could show there was you've seen some
social media about fight clubs where
you've seen fight nights if we could
show that they in somehow hosted then
that's a different topic to where we
could hold the owner responsible for
that as well so if the owner is
actually supplying the alcohol m yeah
again contributing to the liny of a
minor okay and then obviously if it's
drugs that makes it a different charge
still contributing but also you've got
uh the the drug charges as well gotta
thank you
sir council member Tuson first rule we
don't talk about Fight
Club there was something earlier in
there and I I just want the explanation
for it because it doesn't I I don't even
understand how it would work noise
mitigation software
so that's a scottd ordinance when and
that's part of their noise ordinance
they and I believe it's in the
Entertainment District they have
actually monitoring software where it
sends the police and the homeowner or
the business owner an alert that they've
exceeded their decb and they need to
correct it um my understanding is that
it's somewhat beneficial because they
may not realize it's up and so it's a
it's a good early warning system for
both uh the police to do a driveby or
pay him a visit to see if it really is
that high and then sometimes it'll just
be a onetime thing and it comes right
back down so they do have that in their
ordinance ining not mitigating right
right it is they're trying to mitigate
it by the early
warning oh and in the Entertainment
District that seems odd doesn't it like
yeah it gets pretty loud on the street
there um council member Buckley U thank
you I just had a a couple of things most
of my questions got answered that's why
I like to wait till the end and I don't
have to talk very
much but uh if if there are parents do a
party and there's kids there and the
kids get involved in like you said a
fight or
something can you site both the parents
and the the kids or is this like who's
who's responsible for what mayor and uh
Council M Buckley it depends on the
circumstance of what they did so I
believe I heard the example was a fight
correct yeah right yeah so we would have
to uh so you would have the unruly
Gathering if we declare it an unruly
Gathering we can hold the homeowner or
parent responsible for that we would
also hold the uh people responsible for
the fight now if we could do additional
charges of either juveniles or adults
that are
somehow uh assisting with the with the
assault or somehow on the parent side if
you're contributing to the delinquency
whether it's alcohol or encouraging
people to fight we could use that as a
charge as well it's not just drugs and
alcohol contributing to delinquency
you're you're harming the safety and
Welfare of a child everyone there um
council member Buckley if I could just
add in your scenario if there's a large
party someone throws a party for
teenagers and it gets out of hand and
say there's a fight that spills onto the
street and blocking traffic all this
stuff the police will call they'll
they'll respond to the fight but
currently the homeowners got no
responsibility unless there's right
because we do not have an UNR Gathering
ordinance there's nothing in the town
that would hold that disorderly conduct
would be the closest we' have to show
they were responsible and aware so
that's all they could get right now
without an ordinance like this in place
okay I I thought we had like you said a
disorderly conduct or something but so
the parents we don't have anything
what about the county to hold the
parents like right now uh mayor council
member Buckley no not that I'm aware of
on the county or the local level with
the state laws disordered conduct
assaults uh delinquency contributing to
the delinquency of minor that's all
state statute so any jurisdiction has
the ability to charge that once again we
would just have to make that connection
and show evidence to uh show that that
person was responsible for the
delinquency or they were in this case
posting a party because we've been to
some parties where it's obviously a
criminal violation this would be an
additional thing that we could do we can
still do disordered conduct it does not
prohibit us from taking criminal action
on something that obviously needs to be
that is a crime it needs to be corrected
now this would just be in addition to if
we didn't uh whether either way whether
we're charging a crime plus this or if
we just charge this and there is no
crime that occurred okay okay and that
that you know and obviously with what
we've gone through all in the last six
or eight months uh if there's
injuries there so there there's a fight
and somebody gets seriously injured you
know not anything
worse uh if there's If the parents are
not responsible for for the fight the
the child or the minor or the juvenile
is
responsible can well I guess they can
because that now I recall that they were
lawsuits filed like on a civil uh action
against the parents and the the kids I
believe in in the recent one so I wanted
to make sure of that um I I do agree
with council member bonani in regards to
I I would like to see them cited right
away I know that maybe that's not the
possibility or or it is if we put it in
here but I think that these kids need
need to be held responsible and be held
responsible when they're they're caught
doing what they're doing which you have
been doing this whole time and
especially with the guy that dropped the
the um fire hydrant or not yeah I think
that yeah so I would like to see some of
some of this have some consequence other
than a fine in in my opinion because uh
it we need to get it under control and I
think that without that they're going to
pay the fine most of them have the money
to pay the fine so they'll pay the fine
and wait six months and it's going to
all start all over again mayor and
council member Buckley a couple points
I'm I'm not an attorney but I'll put on
my somewhat attorney hat we have to make
sure that we're enforcing laws the same
can't pick and choose who to apply them
to whether they be adults or juvenile
and um we never take anyone's economic
status into consideration when we decide
whether to charge or not or site or not
so the the ordinance needs to be
applicable to all in equal terms
obviously we have age definitions and
and laws that make it illegal for
underage whether a minor or juvenile to
do things that's different um but when
it comes to hosting um I would just be
careful to not set a different standard
for youth as opposed to adults
yeah
okay uh let's
see yeah I think uh I I want to wait for
the the next ordinance too because I'm
I'm want to see what the age group is
there because that's my only concern
there all right thank you very much
council member Bon Giovani thank you
mayor um Chief uh under the paperwork
here 42- 95 pan habitual offender we
have a blank for personal person's
liability for expensive emergency
response
um maybe it was a myth but I heard a
story about stupid stupid motorist law
where they have to pay for the full yeah
cost of Emergency Services um I'd like
to see that quite honestly rather than
saying $ thousand dollar I'd rather see
that they pay for full responsibility
for it and mayor and councilor Von
Giovani uh that that is and that is up
to your discretion as to what that may
be we can do uh actual costs um and I
would include Public Safety but I on a
flip side let's say it's really bad and
we've got a close down streets
barricades you've got um public works as
well so I would make it a little more
broader actually to say any Town town of
Gilbert services in order U using the
language that we have um for uh
mitigating a response I'm looking for my
terms here
uh so I would just uh make sure it's not
just exclusive to PD because if we have
fire response you've got uh five that
are responding plus the ambulance so if
we want true cost recovery I would
include all absolutely thank
you and there is a way through the
courts as well um that but this is in
addition to and that's specified in the
language that in addition to whatever
restitution or fines that may come from
a criminal charge this is in addition uh
paying for the response
any other comments or questions for
chief um Chief I how much work is it for
you to pull that together if it's total
costs I'm just curious from a staff
perspective it's we do it all the time
so it's not difficult we we go actual
cost so we'll pull the employees uh
hourly rate um we factor in a vehicle
cost gas Bas so if it's an hour we do
that on an hourly basis for the car the
the gas the employee and we do that for
each employee that responded um I don't
recall if we do dispatch or not I don't
think we normally do U but those who are
responding to the scene um going out to
the scene we uh charge we accumulate
that and charge it and like you just
mentioned that could be fire police
ambulance Public Works depending on the
situation yep okay um and I I liked I
think I like council member tilki said
Progressive hybrid version that's
probably the best way to term it in this
situation and
um Chandler hasn't made a final decision
on theirs they didn't they didn't vote
on theirs last night because I thought
they were going to but I guess it sounds
like they have not decided on their
finally that's correct it was a study
session it was a study session their
first time looking at it last night okay
again what they're recommending is a
fine a civil fine under their civil code
they didn't identify a number
and then a second time after finding of
responsibility within 18 months is a
Class one misdemeanor that's what
they're looking at moving to right now
and I believe it currently shows up to
2500 they haven't specified the exact
amount that that's correct for the Civil
penalties up to 2500 yeah so depending
on the situation again possibly or they
they haven't decided yet so it could be
anything up to 2500 but they could
actually go higher than that because the
council hasn't made a decision yet
correct correct
thank you um yeah I'm I'm good with all
of this I do appreciate that you have
come at this from the perspective of 180
days versus 18 months as I was thinking
about it and you've got you know
somebody that's a junior in high school
and they throw a party 18 months later
they're out of high school right so when
you put it in life perspective is what I
was trying to do and um that's way too
long in my opinion especially for what
we're seeing with teens in Gilbert at
the moment so I think that the 180 days
works well and
um I'm I guess I'm in agreement with
everything that was mentioned here
including
um the the full penalties because if we
we need to charge what we what it's
costing us we need to recoup those those
fees right and so we need to we need to
recover those costs and that I'm good
with that too any other comments
questions council member Toki mayor um I
I appreciated the addition of um
excessive noise or impeding traffic if
we could add that in ours I think that
would be well I I'm having a hard time
coming up with the dollar figure and
that's my only concern and I don't know
is this something we can just punt to
you guys and based on case law or you
know what what our fees are today or do
you need us to tell you tonight for the
Civil penalties is that what you're
referring to yeah so there's a couple
things one if you you could do a not to
exceed amount but understanding that
then they're in they get a civil
violation if it's the first time they go
into the Civil Court this at Gilbert
Municipal Court if it's not to exceed
they could the judge could set zero
right there's a maximum and nothing so
if you want a minimum you could do a
minimum and maximum not to be less than
x not to exceed X or you can just set a
fine amount and that's what the judge
would be tied to
I kind of like the Max and the minimum
based on the fact that a judge couldn't
say zero because we obviously had a call
that the police responded to that has
made its way into the court so it needs
to be at least a minimum of something
but it could be between this and this
based on how unruly the Gathering was if
you will right using your terms and in
that scenario it would be up to the
judge to determine to set that penalty
listening to all the facts and really
determine how how bad it was can
determine whether where in that scale
the the appropriate find would
be mayor yes member because I just want
to move us along I know we have another
one so um could just to throw it out for
consideration a minimum of 500 maximum
of
2500 is that reasonable for the
situation you just described
yeah okay well it it unfortunately I
don't like penalties don't get so I this
is hard for me yes I have been I have
been doing that but um but I think it
needs to hurt a little bit at least you
know that it that it's taken seriously
so I think the next qu I'm sorry did you
want to say something no mayor and
council member toally just to reiterate
the fact that a civil fine in addition
to recovery cost for actual response
there we go right right yeah that that's
that's still in here yes thank you and
then I think the next question is do you
want to have a second offense with a
much higher before it goes to criminal
or do you want it the second time to go
to criminal that's the question I like
second time criminal if you don't learn
the first time around too
bad right between your eyes I'm GNA tell
you mayor and council member tilki um
and Chris again correct me if I'm wrong
on my number um when you you have the
criminal offense the state statute
dictates the max penalty and it
2500 is my understanding of uh what that
Max penalty can be of 2500 so that would
initially be the ordinance dictating
what that fine is for a secondary
offense and I don't know if we could
charge a secondary on top of the
criminal
fine I think we could include a fine on
this you know the criminal plus the fine
plus ay in addition to the class one mem
meter okay so that really is Progressive
then
so so the second would be criminal pfy
pfy of
right within six months six months MH
yeah so and then you said it's 2500 for
criminal based on state law the max
could be 2500 issued by the court Court
as uh uh Chris just mentioned you could
also have this town's fine of up to
whatever 500 to 2500 as deemed um and
that so in that case he would have to
come back to our court correct Chris so
if well either way it'd still be in our
court because we're talking misdemeanor
misdemeanor so do you mind if I restate
just to see if we got it um first
offense is civil with a minimum fine of
500 to maximum 2500 which includes the
expenses for the Emergency
Response uh second offense and this is
within 60 days
um it would be a criminal
offense whatever fine that the Court
gives you plus the town of Gilbert's
fine which could be between $500 and
$2500 again does that make
sense okay it within 6 months within 6
months yes yes yeah you said 60 days oh
sorry I keep looking I I have a 18 and I
have an
180 and then the the fines are added to
the cost from the test for the Emergency
it wasn't it wasn't clear when you said
included yeah you said included thank
you I was trying to get it all but yeah
that's what I was so so staff has
Direction on this one um based on what
council member tilki just laid out out
with with feedback um and and when we
bring this back yes Chris did you have
something yeah I I just want to make
sure I've got the six months Chandler
says if there's a second violation
within 18 months I just want to make
sure that Council understands that the
18 months is much more harsh six months
because 18 months is a long time to have
you have one party and then you know 17
months later you have a second and
you're you're hit with a demeanor on the
second time 17 months later the way the
council's doing it I'm fine with that I
just want to make sure you're clear that
here you have a party in month one and
you have a party in month nine that that
party in month nine is a civil again
because it's the six-month window I want
to make sure you understand they the
longer the time the the harsher it is
and make sure that's the council intent
because you have to behave yourself for
a longer amount a much longer time 18
months is a long time when when you lay
it out that way Chris yes I I'm okay
with the 18 I'm all for
Harsh that means you have to be you have
to be well behaved for a longer period
of
time see when you turn something the
other way it just yep yep okay so I
appreciate that cuz I wasn't I wasn't
cap yes I just want to make sure so I
will put that at 18 and and just to
clarify did reach out um when it comes
to
memers there's fines that are set so a
Class one misdemeanor is up to 2500 okay
already already it's already built into
the misdemeanor so I don't think we need
to add another fine if council's fine
with that if there's a second offense
and it's criminal then the court can do
up to
$2500 just on its own just like that but
always Plus cost and then cost on top of
that correct in in any scenario yes and
make sure it it it explains out the full
cost like Chief explained with all
public safety Public Works any Town
employees that need to respond okay
however you want to word that however is
appropriate got it yep thank you okay
chief next Brass Knuckles review of
brass knuckles
incidents so as we've heard over the
last six months the state does not have
a a any prohibitions on brass knuckles
obviously if brass knuckles are used in
an assault then they can be charged with
a aggravated assault because you're
using a weapon uh but just possession of
itself is not illegal in the state in
Phoenix they it's a unlawful to sell
give away or to possess for the purpose
of sell or giving away also unlawful for
any person except for a police officer
to carry brass knuckles concealed um
those are both class one misdemeanors
and that there's not an age restriction
on Phoenix's code that is all
individuals Yuma again it's all adults
or excuse me all individuals it's not by
age unlawful for any person to sell give
away or to possess for the purpose of
sell or giving away except for resell to
a law enforcement officer or licensed
security guard and that's criminal as
well looking at our cases over the last
since 21 over the last three and a half
years uh we have had six calls in 2021
and this is based on we did a keyword
search for any time brass knuckles were
mentioned in a report and so in 2021 we
had six incidents two of those there was
no crime related
whatsoever um and then in the other two
uh brass knuckles were stolen one in a
vehicle burglary and one in a
residential burglary and in the other
two cases it was someone who we arrested
uh not for using the brass knuckles but
they had brass knuckles in their
possession when we made the arrest in
2022 we had 13 calls for service that
included brass knuckles three of those
were not uh no crime occurred six of
those were assaults and those six wereth
the youth uh incidents four additional
cases where someone we arrested had
brass knuckles in their possession and
then 2023 we had 10 total incidents two
of those were not crimes only one
involved in an assault and that was with
adults involved and then the other seven
were people we arrested and they had
brass knuckles in their possession when
we arrested them so a total of 29
incidents over um those three years and
I'm Miss assuming Chandler used the same
criteria I believe there were 55
incidents in that same time period just
for reference um the proposed ordinance
um this is uh and you've got the hard
copy uh this is the same as what
Chandler is proposing and this is
age-based so prohibiting the sell sell
to or the supply of and possession of
brass knuckles by a person under the age
of 18 years of age so you could not sell
or give
uh someone that's 17 or younger brass
knuckles it would make it illegal for
you to do so and it also makes it
illegal for the juvenile to possess
those brass knuckles both both of those
are Class one misdemeanor and the
penalties up to 6 months in jail up to
three years probation and as we talked
in the last discussion up to $2,500
fine much simpler ordinance than the
last one um it's you either have it or
you don't you're possessing it um as we
saw with the state um the state with the
legislation proposed earlier this year
it was a total ban it did not matter age
and that was some of the discussion that
occurred as it went through committees
obviously we know that that did not pass
and thus the reason why we're here today
to discuss an ordinance in Gilbert
similar to what uh Chandler is doing
thanks Chief I wanted to say on the last
ordinance it seems like um the unruly
Gatherings has escalated ated over the
last few years seeing all the cities and
towns that have changed their ordinances
or created new ordinances and I forgot
to mention that which you know it's not
just Gilbert obviously we're hearing
that this is a nationwide issue and I
think coming out of the pandemic
especially we've seen so many changes in
people and the way they react to things
so yeah Council May ban Giovani thank
you mayor the can you go back to the
first slide there
Mike uh about the arrests sorry where'd
it go there it is there it is
okay so the adult how old was that adult
uh 22 22 okay thank
you council member Tason first you might
want an Oxford comma in that what you
wrote there what's that supply of comma
and possession yes so Oxford comma might
be kind of cool there for you um I'm
curious as to why police officers were
allowed to carry in Yuma and
Phoenix that's a human question yeah
because I see no Grand purpose in that I
mean I I don't either so that surprised
me right
and yeah the um but I do understand when
you're saying under 18 we don't let
people smoke cigarettes under 21
according to federal law
so this I don't see a true self-defense
issue with brass knuckles but
I just wanted to ask that question
because it just I'm made of questions
when there's things like that we want
our cops to have some brass knuckles it
goes back to Fight Club so I'll I'll
wait for the answer yeah can't talk
about Fight Club yeah mayor council
member tus I there are some Antiquated
laws maybe they're allowed it in Yuma
but uh we do not we never have thanks
Chief counil member
Buckley um Can can you go back to the
counc member can you talk your mic
please thank you I thought I had it in
the right spot I never have it in the
right spot um okay I um oh no I'm sorry
the the one that had that you went back
to with Chuck that has the age limit on
there here uh okay so we have you have
just under 18 I would personally like to
see that under 21 21 and under they the
kids they can't buy alcohol under 21
they can't smoke under 21 and uh there's
something else they can't do a lot of
other things they can't do but I I I
think if we're going to do this
ordinance is there something legal that
we can't do
that uh mayor council member Buckley
there's no legal prohibitions that I'm
aware of and that was part of the
discussion when they talked about the
state law of what age should it be so it
is up to council's discretion as to what
age that should be or if there is even
an age limit on it that is up to your
discretion as as as well uh what we
presented to you is what Chandler is
considering as well as us in Gilbert so
so by law the no one oh wait a minute we
don't have that law we don't have the
law at all we actually do there is a
state law about brass knuckles being a
deadly weapon and there is a state law
21 about um having 21 and above so I
would like not purchas not purchasing
though correct yeah well injes there's
not a current law that prohib its brass
knuckles from being purchased sold or
possessed by anyone the use of brass
knuckles makes it illegal The Possession
does
not so you can have them you just can't
use them right by the law that is
currently in place well yeah well that
that's not working
obviously but yeah can we so is the
answer yes or no can we do 21 and under
if everyone agrees on that it would be
up to a concession of a major of this
group if they would be willing to go
above 18 um next to speak is council
member cowsky so if you'd like to make
your comments and comment on at the same
time that would be great sure um Chief
thanks for the presentation I recall
that earlier in the year when you were
giving data about our teen violence in
the community it wasn't limited to 13 to
18 year olds it was a range of 13 to 22
year old olds
approximately and so I had the same
concern that council member Buckley just
mentioned in terms of um limiting this
to juveniles and I'd like the language
to match with regard to the age if we
decide on an age I would personally want
a total ban unless you can maybe explain
any proponents or
um what what the pros and cons are uh
mayor and council member Capra
I I am I am in agreement with you it's
easier for us as a police department to
enforce if it's a total ban uh that's
why we were in support of the initial
language from the state it was a total
ban on possession um and I I won't argue
the other side of whether it be
self-defense or collector items that is
one that I heard quite often was
collector items and if it was passed
down through the family for whatever
reason they didn't want it to be illegal
to have it in a display case in in my in
office or something like that so um
that's I I'm in favor of a no age limit
um if we want to be consistent then we'd
have to talk to chanler about changing
that I know that's some discussion
that's been in others but in the two
examples we do have yum Phoenix there
isn't an age limit it's illegal for
anyone uh regardless of age and that's
again up to the discretion of
council so with the concern you
mentioned about maybe someone having it
as a display item is there something
that would you recommend any kind of
support that would say that like if you
if you were if you're in a home for
another reason you couldn't um I guess
get them on this if it was in a secured
location so mayor and council member
Kowski um in my interpretation of the
way we would apply that law if it said
uh illegal to possess if if I'm in a
household for legal Justified reasons
and I happen to see some brass knuckles
in a drawer or in a display case while
it is in the possession of your house
it's not in the possession of the person
and this law this ordinance is um
mandating that someone in their
possession does not have it now keep in
mind too you factor in language of
reasonably accessible um so we've made
several traffic stops and some of the
ones I showed you it wasn't a crime but
we arrested somebody we arrested people
for dii criminal speeding and underneath
the the seat were the brass knuckles and
so to me that would be possession as
well if it's within their reach and
that's what we would have to document in
our reports of why if it's in the trunk
locked in a case it is in the possession
of the vehicle but that would be a hard
argument for us to make and get a
conviction that they could easily
possess it now they admitted yeah I just
stuck it there when I saw you coming
then that's a little bit different but
we would make that distinction in our
reporting that how is it easily
accessible without having to Define it
in law because then you get a very long
uh ordinance um or a state statute which
dictates all the exceptions to the rule
so when we talk possession within the
body or within reasonable reach thank
you for that explanation based on that
information I would support the
ordinance as a total ban thank you
council member Bon Giovani thank you
mayor um I would
support either one um definitely um
under
21 um I know maybe some other cities
around us may want to do 18 but heck I'd
like to see someone from chanler drive
over the uh Town board and throw the
brass knuckles outside so uh I'm good
with 21 or I'm good with um total ban if
the rest of the council supports that
but definitely under 21 for me
C
Tason I would think under 18 is a
reasonable thing people go to war and
die at 18 and I'm just absolutely
unwilling to start impeding into an
adult when it's used in a crime it's
already a mitigating factor and illegal
what we've been having a problem with is
is a few kids and the numbers speak to a
few we don't have a rampant problem we
have an ugly problem we have a problem
that's resulted in a little bit of
horror here which was really sad but
this isn't going on day in and day out
and I don't see any reason to start
going into people's rights I don't see a
reason to go into anything once you're
18 you're an adult and you're going to
if you use that you're going to pay the
price what we're trying to do is
mitigate some teen violence not 35y old
violence that's already regulated by the
state I'm I'm a hard
18 record this I completely and totally
100% agree with orgason
Council May tilki or vice mayor would
you like to
comment I'm still noodling it around a
little bit but
um
um I think the consistency between the
um communities is important but they
haven't passed theirs yet so if we pass
ours then they can take a look at it and
decide whether what they want to do
obviously I just wanted to share the
information let let me point out that
they may pass theirs before we actually
get back to passing ours cuz we're just
discussing tonight too so but I think
Chris you're going to keep them informed
right are they going to correct I I can
notify the channel City attorney of the
direction that we're going but I believe
they're meeting next week I'm not quite
sure they usually meet within a week
after they do their study session so
they'll be before this comes back before
the council that's what I was thinking
thank sorry to interrupt you just wanted
to point that out yeah thanks
um I I what I'm going back to is the
definition of a juvenile and a minor and
so a minor if I read the other ordinance
is 21 and a juvenile is 18 and so I
think are we looking at this as a
juvenile issue a minor issue or just an
issue overall and um I thought we had
come looking at it as a juvenile issue
but um so I I'm just trying to get my
head around that so I'm not I don't know
where I am on it
sorry vice
mayor that's how I understood it also is
it was a juvenile issue so I do support
the 18 the 18
yeah so it sounds like we have a
majority well we
have CC member Bon gvani was 21 hard not
hard I mean because you said both to
start I think I mean I I I just want
this to go through right if it's going
to go through at 18 it goes through with
18 I'm fine with that this just needs to
get
resolved council member Kowski
I would just ask that there be greater
consideration for the data in our
community um in terms of bringing it to
the age of 21 since th those individuals
within that range are the ones that
we're we're seeing the greatest issue
with so I have concerns that if we keep
it at juveniles under 18 it's not going
to have any effect or any change in the
community it's
it's a lackluster ordinance at that
point mayor could I ask a question just
quick based on that some of the issues
that we've been encountering during the
investigations is something happens when
you're Juvenile and then you're a minor
or you're and somewhere in there you're
going to be
um investigated or whatever as an adult
um so I think that in those cases 21
kind of clears that up a little bit B
because some of these actions are
happening during that phase but can you
tell me how that works mayor and uh
council member tilki so for adjudication
when you are 17 or younger the charge
would go to Mar Maricopa County Juvenile
Court often times when they're 17 almost
18 they will defer that back to uh the
city court uh for a misdemeanor charge
but for all adults if it's just the
misdemeanor charge it's going to go to
the town court um but that's the only
difference for um charging is that if
they're 17 or younger it's going to go
to juvenile court if it's 18 or older
it's going to go to the town
court Chief if I and counil if I could
just add this is a town ordinance right
it's it it's obviously not a state law
so so it would come to us right the
likelihood if it got referred from the
police department to County juvie they'd
probably kick it back to the town court
because they prosecute state laws there
they don't typically will prosecute a
city code a city ordinance so it will
likely end up back in Gilbert y even
though they're juveniles thank you yes
that is correct unless for some reason
we can justify why we couldn't which we
can't so we would we would take it
unless there were other sorry unless
there were other charges say there were
other state law violations then likely
the county would just take it all and
prosecute all in one bundle for example
if we had a DUI and he was in possession
he or she was in possession of brass
knuckles that superseding charge DUI um
as a juvenile would would go through the
county would take them both likely thank
you so mayor um then I'm leaning towards
the 21 just based on the data and the
incidences that we've been dealing with
between those ages I think it makes it a
little cleaner in the way that we handle
that con Tuson I I'm going to read it
it'll get kicked back to us is the first
thing and if it's used in the commission
of a crime it is a mitigating fact on a
felony correct so if it's used it's
going to be a felony for regardless of
age it's going to be charged as a felony
so I'm saying we respect the system keep
it at 18 so that it discourages the kids
from getting it the kids that are doing
whatever but once they're 18 if they're
using it or they're even brandishing it
it's probably going to be considered
menacing potentially we'd have to show
that yes so I would prefer to respect
the rights of the adults in the room and
not start to to try and spread this
beyond what it was initially intended to
to be juvenile I I I I'm going to stay
at a hard 18 100% agree again council
member kosi I would just like to add
that an
18-year-old could be a senior in high
school so I think that when you're
trying to separate them it makes it more
difficult because people that are 16 and
17 are going to have friends that are 18
and 19 the biggest separation I feel is
obviously you know maybe high school and
college and college people are going out
and they're in different areas but we're
seeing
this with a certain age group and I feel
like we are cutting the line right in
the middle of a certain population
and so that's going to just make it less
effective federal law cuts it at 18 for
a lot of things too should we ask the
feds to change laws with the state to oh
he's 18 but in high school so we should
change that it's a it's a Line in the
Sand the Line in the Sand was drawn at
18 that's when I mean people pay their
taxes go to war whatever it is there's a
line in the sand it's 18 it's not a Line
in the Sand if you're in high school so
I'm again I'm going to be hard at 18
me too 100% so if the majority um if the
consensus is to go to 21 then you're
probably going to have a 52 vote
potentially maybe 43 4-3 vote on that um
it would be nice if we could have a
consensus on this but I'm I'm not
budging I mean I was I was having a hard
time with this to start with I could
definitely support the town supporting
this at the state level if it was
Bridget Peterson supporting at the state
level I would have been a hard no
because I have different beliefs as
myself so me voting on this would have
been really different for me and to go
above 18 I'm 100% with council member
Tuson on this I am a I'm a hard no on
that
um so we'll can bring it forward but we
well it is what it is ccil member wani
thank you mayor
um I'm not willing to have this not pass
I'm okay to go to
18 it's still it's still going to be a
43 well it's still going to be a 43 I
mean right now it passes either way
so we have to give
staff direction do you want them to
bring back an ordinance that says 18 or
do you want them to bring back an
ordinance that says
21 18
18 you have your consensus that's okay
for
18 all right mayor council thank you
just to cover next steps obviously we'll
draft this up as quickly as possible so
we may be able to get the next council
meeting if not June and then as this
slide indicates we'll do education and I
would like to try and stay consistent
with Chandler if Chandler somehow goes
off the rails and comes back with
something different then you can report
back to us Chris but I think for this
area it's important and I think we did
council member tus and really put it
well that we came into this with a with
a solution to the juvenile issues that
have been going on in our community and
this is what we heard from the community
and um this this is our answer to that
and we will plan on bringing this 2
weeks on May 21st and we'll keep an eye
out on what Chandler does as well okay
thank report back at that night thanks
so much okay we will adjourn this study
session and get ready for the influx of
kids for