Study Session - 6/18/2024 5:00:00 PM

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good evening I'd like to call to order
this Gilbert Town Council study session
for June 18th
2024 we have one item on our agenda this
evening discussion and presentation on
mayor and Council annual salary and
Council commitments assignments and
reports I see Rob boore stepping up to
the
podium Rob
hello mayor and
councel so tonight's going to be a tag
team effort uh between me and and Nathan
Williams with with the people team um so
we're just going to provide some
background information to help guide
your discussion related to council
compensation um we'll we'll go over
several several issues including um
historical data cost of Len info um and
discuss some comparative data throughout
the state and a region and and um then
discuss potential options for for your
discussion tonight uh Above All Else
hopefully we can answer any questions
you might have along the way um but just
to to kick it off here I thought we we
might want to start
with do I need to do something
oh there it goes did I do that or did
somebody else do that yeah you did it I
think are you doing that I think so
you're not right sorry we apologize
okay so we already went through kind of
what what the presentation tonight will
entail um thought thought we might want
to start out with kind of what
parameters you're you're acting under in
other words what what uh laws at both
the local and state level um regulate or
or you know provide a framework for for
what decisions you're able to make and
and how you're able to make them so um
the Arizona Supreme Court has has
weighed in and and determined that um
the section that deals with this in the
Arizona Constitution um definitely
specifies that all members of a of a
council or or a different type of board
that that perform um essentially the
same duties all need to be uh
compensated at at an equal amount so in
our case that would mean all of council
uh would be determined to essentially be
doing the same same responsibilities and
and would need to be um compensated
equally the mayor is determined to be uh
at a different different level of
responsibility so therefore uh does not
need to be um at an equal compensation
level with with the rest of council so
we'll get back a little bit back into
that but just um first to touch on our
our local town code here uh it basically
just says that we will in fact comply
with that with that section of the
Arizona Constitution um and that that uh
any that any resolution of the council
uh provid Ed that
that um will provide that the
compensation of any elected official
will not be increased or decreased
except in conformance with th those
provisions and then similarly um Arizona
State Statute um deals a little bit with
this as well and and just states that
the common Council May by ordinance or
resolution prescribe a daily
compensation or salary to be paid uh to
the mayor councilman and administrative
board members for the performance of
official
duties so in our case um I guess what we
what we determine that to mean um when
when when you have a council like ours
with staggered terms um all all of our
Council needs to basically adjust
compensation at the same time um so it
would it would occur at the beginning a
of a new regular term of any council
member so in other words um in January
following an election cycle uh so for us
that that means that that Council me uh
change in compensation for Council
Members could occur no more frequently
than every two years and then um an
important point is it could actually
couldn't uh occur any more frequently
than every four years for the mayor um
so like I said the the change would
occur in January final election year
council members who are at the middle of
their term when a change in compensation
goes into effect in January following
election year must receive the same
change in compensation as the newly
elected members so um to put it in
today's terms if we were to approve a
change in compensation for Council
Members prior to the end of this year
the end of 2024 the earliest it could go
into effect is January 25 otherwise it
could go into effect January 2027 or
January of any odd number year
thereafter um and then of course like we
said Council MERS who are in the midterm
when that change in compensation occurs
receive the same change in compensation
as those newly elected elected members
for the mayor any change in compensation
could only occur every four years or at
the start of their term so January 2025
or January
2029 and then wanted to get a little bit
into I'm sure um you all could could
touch on this a lot better than than I
could but but to look at at um the
different roles and
responsibilities uh in in your in your
roles as elected officials for the town
of Gilbert um and and just to just to
lay out a little bit of what what that
means on a daily weekly um you know
monthly annual basis as far as uh what
what different types of of different
categories of responsibilities are there
for you and uh you know the um the
different things that that you can
choose to be busy with as far as your
prioritization of of
responsibilities so obviously
um with with your role as the policy
makers for the town of Gilbert as you
all know we're uh Arizona's uh cities
and towns are under the council manager
form of government and of course that
means that you all set the policy and
and um the manager Patrick in our case
um and and all of our staff underneath
Patrick Carry Out that policy on a
day-to-day basis right so um you as as
Council I wanted to start with kind of
the formal duties that that are part of
that policymaking responsibility so
these these include really the regular
meetings the public meetings and the
public action that you take um that are
that are part of that policy formation
so obviously attending these regular
meetings study sessions all the Public
Public meetings related related to town
business um and then a big piece of that
of course is is on your own own own time
ahead of time reviewing those packets of
information and the material related to
those meetings um of course you all
appoint our um community members to the
various boards and commissions and then
individual council members also um serve
liais on assignments to some of those
boards and commissions as
well and then of course over time you've
created subcommittees on different
issues different topics and then those
council members that are part of that
subcommittee also um part of their
responsibilities is is attending those
meetings being prepared with the
information related to that
subcommittee then just um some of the
other responsibilities that go that go
with the role um of course uh within
within Town Hall uh obviously we we
always want to keep you up to speed on
on different issues that are that are
facing the town and and different uh uh
topics that are that are coming up and
um as you know we often want to to brief
you and and you know have meetings with
you on an individual or group basis to
make sure that you're up to speed on
some of those issues um and of course
meet important meetings with Community
leaders or Business Leaders or or just
um constituents about issues that
they're facing or or efforts or
initiatives that they might be a part of
or you want them to be a part of um of
course the sky a limit as far as how
many of those types of things you want
to take on events um of course being a
local elected official comes with a lot
of uh ribbon cuttings and local
community events uh a lot of groups and
organizations ask you um to take on
speaking engagements especially the
mayor I know is is asked um to do a lot
of those types of of things and then of
course conferences trainings and
informational events we do uh as you all
know we do things like the league of
Arizona cities and towns annual
conference as well as some other
conferences and trainings to make sure
that you're aware of kind of different
things going on in local government and
how to kind of best tackle your your
roles and then finally um many many
members of the public may may or may not
be aware of of um the many different uh
organizations throughout the excuse me
throughout the region and throughout the
state that um the town belongs to where
either the mayor or a um Council
representative often serves as that
liaison or that that delegate to those
organizations which of often make
governing decisions in different subject
areas um just to list off a few of these
again not an exhaustive list but um
marope Association of governments mag um
they they're probably most well known
for their uh the planning long-term
planning and transportation but they
also actually cover a lot of different
subject areas including um domestic
violence uh our regional 911 program and
and more than a handful building um
building code changes things along those
lines so um we look to you all to um
serve on on those different uh those
different uh committies that make the
regional decisions in those different
subject areas similar to Valley Metro
which um is the long-term planning
organization uh dealing with transit in
the region amoa Arizona Municipal Water
us Association same thing deals with
local water policy um greater Phoenix
Economic Council Economic Development
opportunities uh at the local level um
phen Phoenix Mesa Gateway Airport
Authority here in in Gilbert is an
important partner of ours um and mayor
serves on on that board and then um
obviously the league of Arizona cities
and towns which touched on um the mayor
serves on that executive committee and
and others of you have been been
relatively uh active with them going to
different trainings and and
informational events as well and then of
course the local Gilbert Chamber of
Commerce and being involved with with
all of their tasks so just a just a high
level overview of kind of what what the
responsibilities and and um different
activities that are out there that that
you all are that are expected of you in
your
Ro um so then we're just going to look a
little bit at historical information uh
in Gilbert related to uh Council
compensation and salary and uh I know I
believe we shared some of this with you
um ahead of time but just wanted to look
at um this this slide here just kind of
shows you a good good uh overview of the
last 15 years and I think that what's
going to kind of stand out to here is
there hasn't been a significant amount
of of change over that time um as you
can see back in in fiscal year 09 the
salaries were $ 37,8 22 annually for the
mayor
2,12 for the council um that Council pay
rate is actually the same today and the
mayor is just slightly slightly higher
at
43,6 31 um just to kind of touch a real
quickly on on kind of how that sort of
transpired over those years um two thou
back in
2005 there was a resolution that
increased mayor and Council salaries to
36,000 for the mayor and 20,000 for for
Council um at that same time they they
also adopted an ordinance that would set
um that would set Council salaries to
increase each year that there was a that
town staff received a count uh cost of
living increase and and elected official
salaries would increase at that same
same percentage so over time that that
percentage uh around well
2017 resulted in in um the salaries had
gotten up to 4 43,6 31 for the mayor and
uh 24 ,000 and and change for for
Council um and then at that point in
2017 that was when um the council at the
time determined that they didn't want
that they weren't interested in having
that automatic increase that was
attached to those colas um so they
repealed the ordinance that created that
increase and then later that year ended
up um lowering the council salary back
to the to the LEL that it was uh prior
to that 2007 increase so so they put the
council salary back to the
21,2 from from
2017 and uh and chose to keep the
mayor's salary at the
43,6 31 so that's where we've been since
since that
time and I believe those were my slides
in my uh information I can be available
for any questions and I think Nathan's
coming up next to cover some other other
information is this working okay
cool mayor Peterson vice mayor Anderson
members of council thank you for the
opportunity to to share with you and
thank you rob for uh providing a little
bit of um statute historical context I'm
going to take you through um much of the
um kind of market-based
benchmarking um and the kind of
compensation factors that we work with
internally um to maybe help guide any
decis decision that you might feel
compelled to make so first off um just a
quick kind of snapshot of um how we
leverage or use CPI or um Consumer Price
Index data um when we are looking at um
market conditions inflationary um
conditions things of that nature I will
point out that we use what's referred to
as our local market CPI which is
basically Phoenix Metro so they call it
the federal government calls it Phoenix
Mesa Scottsdale Metro um but uh it's
it's basically the the greater Phoenix
area and and while there's some
obviously there's some big numbers as we
all know there were some major
inflationary um pressures and impacts
that occurred the last couple of years
um if you look the the the average still
comes out to about
2.79% annually over this 15-year
trajectory and that's only relevant um
for for some of the context I'll provide
you a little further
on so we can kind of talk present State
um for your um current compensation
we're going to talk a little bit about
what we refer to as the fully loaded um
compensation component and then I'll
also talk through the market data that
we were able to
gather so fully loaded um as many of you
may know but I'll share um this being a
public meeting when we talk about fully
loaded we're talking about the full cost
of an employee or in this case an
elected official there are cost
obviously that goes into employing
someone Beyond just their pay rate um
and I'll I'll outline those here here um
and I'm going to kind of talk you
through them so although there may be
something that stands out as really
interesting on this document um allow me
to get there before uh you you focus too
much on it because I want to walk you
through kind of line by line so in this
case we're looking at um a member of
council not the mayor's salary but just
for the point of of an example this is
the the salary currently of a member of
our Council um beyond that we have uh
percentage-based cost to the town so
these are a variety of factors um Social
Security Medicare right those standard
things that employer pays in to um
whether it be the federal government or
whether it be to uh manage other other
costs that may be um incurred to
employee and employee now again you're
going to see there's there's a big
number there that I'm going to jump to
in just a second um but I'll come back
to it so the next thing we would look at
and I know it's it's it's up to each of
you independently if you choose to
participate in our Healthcare and our
Dental Programs um but but obviously I
think it's important to show the
possible cost that could be incurred or
how we basically budget for um an
employee or a position in the
organization so we obviously take into
consideration the town um cost or
contributions to health and dental um
and in this case we typically use our um
more our broader um health plan which
would be our preferred plan and we we do
it on the family uh um tier to to make
sure that we are making good financial
decisions and we're kind of budgeting
for um the the higher cost scenario so
that's what this number means um now I
want to refer back to this what may
stand out this 70 plus percentage
contribution um so that is as as many of
you may know the elected official
retirement program um is managed by
psprs which is the public safety um
retirement program um there this is a
contribution that that that all cities
all municipalities have to make um for
each elected official to basically pay
back past pensionary expenditures so
this is not a cost that is incurred um
because of you if that helps that is a
cost that is being paid per elected
official um to manage the past Financial
commitments of psprs to their pension
program that number will change
year-over-year we anticipate as they
catch that fund up that number will
shrink significantly so while it looks
like a kind of a crazy sticker shock
number that isn't a number that really
represents any cost that you are
incurring to the organization um I will
point out that that number already is
slated to drop to 46% in the upcoming
fiscal year because psprs is obviously
catching up that retirement um pension
fund for um for past elected
officials and so as you can see and I
didn't I didn't Circle this one but you
can see see the um the the far right uh
number at the top in this scenario this
shows that the fully loaded cost of a
council member for the town of Gilbert
um comes out to just over $57,000 a year
now again it's important to keep in mind
that 70% of your salary number is being
paid into psprs and and really isn't um
something you're incurring or or you
know a consequence of you being in your
seat um but wanted to give you the full
picture of what we would refer to as the
fully loaded
cost next I want to take you through um
what we look at when we talk about
Market or or Benchmark data excuse me
and and I I I labeled it State because
we do we did Factor Tucson into the
consideration when we wanted to provide
all this information to you um with it
being the second largest city in the
state um we wanted to make sure you had
that information in front of you while
oh and I'm sorry I I realize now that I
shared a table that doesn't share all
the salary data that is a mistake on my
part I copied and pasted the wrong table
so we can make sure we provide an update
that's got those cells filled in I'm
sorry um but the gist is and what I want
to show you on this is um this is
comparable to how we do our salary and
pay benchmarking for our Workforce we go
and we look at um what we would refer to
as Benchmark cities normally those are
uh Metro Phoenix cities um that will
then go and determine you know based on
their data how do we how do we identify
our salary ranges and midpoint points um
and I've provided you some um averages
down there at the bottom but I am a
little skeptical that these averages are
correct now that I realized this this
table that I shared with you doesn't
have everything indicated on it but no
no matter this is all referred back to
in a in a summary slide to come so
um the you've seen this one before we we
shared this with you at the um Council
Retreat um several months back the there
was several kind of comparison or or
approaches we could use if we wanted to
look at comparative salary data um you
can see on there we talked about looking
at Maricopa County cities and coming up
with average data based on that
selection of cities we talked about um
basing it on a a salary per resident
number or basically a resident a
population count number um we talked
about looking at
seven biggest cities including Gilbert
and then we talked about pulling Gilbert
out and looking at the sixth biggest
cities um that remain so there's a
variety of ways you can kind of approach
the salary data and I just wanted to
refer you back to that
um now when we talk about kind of future
considerations and again I'm going to
summarize a lot of what I've shown you
in these upcoming slides so if you feel
like I'm moving fast or I'm brushing
past the numbers they'll be I'll refer
back to them but you're welcome to ask
me to to back up to anything you'd like
to as well so when we look at the um you
know if I'm going to kind of break this
down this slide is kind of if you wanted
to make um take action to uh propose a
change to salaries at a future date um
this is kind of the adjustment scenarios
that I think are are feasible um or
possible based on the data um you've got
your current uh salary for Aon Council
there next you have if we were to
basically go back in time and say had
you gotten that
2.79% annually in CPI increases where
would that put you today so that's what
the salary data is in that second um
section the the third is again like I
showed before if we were to say well the
six biggest cities taking Gilbert out of
the mix what does that make our
averages the next would be um if we just
looked at all the 10 cities that I
shared with you what would be the
average another consideration we thought
would be good to present would be your
the most comparable five cities um
around as far as population concerned so
that would be uh Chandler Glendale
Scottsdale porori and Tempe those are
kind of the most comparable population
sizes and if we looked at their salaries
and averaged them that would give you
those numbers um if we based it on the a
population of Gilbert calculation um
that's what's next and then lastly I
know council member Tuson had had um
presented the idea of um anchoring to
our lowest paid salaried full-time
employee in the town um and then I I
think I heard and I correct me if I'm
wrong I thought there was mention of
that would be the council recommendation
and then the mayor might be 1.3
multiplier to that so that's what I
presented to you here would be if you
basically did a 30% increase for the
mayor um in comparison to those that
council salary
number the next slide is future kind of
consideration so this is if you wanted
to entertain different um scenarios for
how you would manage mayor and Council
salaries um into the future and and I've
just put a few ideas here again that I
think align well with our compensation
and our benchmarking approach internally
um and also align with some of the
questions that that some of you have
raised throughout this process so the
first one is um while Rob pointed out
that we we can't necessarily put an
annual increase in place without
changing um a statute or an ordinance um
we could basically treat a an increase
um kind of along the lines of an annual
increase based on historical CPI data so
again I would I would lean on that
number that 2. 79% um historical CPI
average we've seen and if you wanted to
say every eligible two years for our
Council we're going to basically double
that number for two years right so we're
going to do
5.58% um for our council members and
then we're going to quadruple that
number for the mayor because it's on a
four-year cycle and make it 11.16% every
four years um in alignment with that CPI
data that's an option another option
could be um we you could look at a
another kind of Market base
um or kind of inflationary based
variable so staff could certainly we
could look at a shorter term Trend we
could look at Future Trends we could try
to make assessments and bring proposals
to um each of you in in Council meetings
in the future to show you the data that
we're seeing um and and and you know
present it to you
accordingly um we could look at by
annual increases for our council members
or or four-year increases for the mayor
based on um townwide benchmarking data
so we Benchmark our all of our positions
across the town every 2 years um and
obviously those positions move based on
the market so we could we could
basically look at the two years of
Benchmark data and then present that to
you and say what's the average movement
we're seeing within the organization and
would you like to sort of anchor your um
you know the council and mayor um
salaries to that same type of movement
and then another scenario obviously is
we could just continue to look at City
right in in our whether it be the state
whether it be our our Benchmark kind of
market and we could say well what are we
seeing as far as May and Council pay
within those cities we could do that on
a regularly occurring cycle and present
that data um to all of you for a
determination do you want to continue to
kind of meet a midpoint number like we
do with with staff salaries or some
other variable like
that so those are kind of like I said
those are kind of the two um I wanted to
kind of present those two summary slides
for for you that's got the kind of
current um scenarios or considerations
and then sort of future um
considerations for you and I'll pause
there and ask if you'd
like Rob to come up because you don't
want to answer any questions Nathan just
kidding can answer together you're all
dressed up to answer questions at the
podium any questions for Nathan or Rob
at this
time or I can go back to anything if you
want refer back to anything council
member Von Giovani thank you mayor
Robert Rob I promise I'm not going to
put you on the
spot just couple questions for
you um in our fall
Retreat um we spoke about this
correct correct mayor counc member just
want to get the facade of us hijacking
and throwing this in at the last second
totally out of the
conversation in November 21st updated
December 1st
23 the um Gilbert Sun Times in an
article called Town Council count
Gilbert Town Council to discuss its
annual pay rate and in it it said quote
a majority of the council recently gave
the green light to hold a formal
discussion
unquote my guess is you agree that the
majority of us said we wanted to
continue to speak about
that counil you're talking about at the
retreat in November yeah I believe so
okay so I'm GNA I'm going to assume that
the majority of us also thought that
this was going to be worked on during
the year so I'm not going to put you on
the spot and I'm not going to say where
did you get direction that said to to
not continue speaking about this but
from what I believe five of us wanted to
move ahead and speak about this so to
say that we blindsided every bu the
other night to me is not fair it's not
it's not right um and that's not on you
Rob I'm just I'm just making a
statement if we went back to 2009 and we
looked at council salary was
2112 and we looked at the average home
price in Gilbert Arizona at the time was
$220,000 so it's roughly
10% uh to throw in some more figures at
you if our average home price right now
Gilbert is
$586,000 that would put our salary at
about 58,60 and I agree that's probably
a little a little on the high side but
when I talked the other night I spoke
about the makeup of this Council and how
it would be great to open this up to the
average
person and so let's use the topic of
let's go back in time a little bit let's
say I wanted to be on this Council and I
had I had um full custody of my infant
son since he was 6 months old and I
needed a
babysitter right now the average cost of
a babysitter is
$17.73 per hour Council meetings alone
would cost me
$2,127 Retreats would cost me
$1,063 and estimated meetings throughout
the year be $5,800 which is a total of
almost
$112,000 without taxes will bring me
down to
$15,000 uh so I would actually make
$4,000 for the full year making this job
very very impossible for someone of
lower means or a single mom with with a
kid uh to me you know again I spoke the
other night getting a rais isn't going
to affect my lifestyle whatsoever but
this isn't about me it's about people
that follow me I mean uh Nathan as a as
a human resource person do you think
it's fair for a single mom to make
$4,000 a year
no sir I would say no to that thank you
and I don't even mean to put you guys on
the spot I just wanted to clear up
some Notions that were out there that
this this was done in the middle of the
night secretly 25 hours before the
meeting well the five of us thought that
this was moving forward and that's why
we had to bring it up at the last second
somehow it stopped I know I don't care
how it was stopped I'm not going to ask
anyone on this Council if they told you
to stop I'm not going to ask you who
told you to stop but it was stopped and
so we wasn't a sneak attack and I just
want to bring that out I'm kind of in a
little feisty mood tonight so uh I don't
want to take it out on you guys but
thank you for your hard work with coming
up with these numbers for
us other questions for Rob and Nathan at
this
time I'm sure
have then we would have to bring it back
to the council for discussion because
our only options at this point are ask
staff questions or bring it back to the
council for discussion I don't want to
leave them standing there if we can
bring them back okay guys thank you
thank you all thank
you we'll bring it up to the Das for
discussion would anyone like
to begin
come mayki thank you I was prepared to
just let the silence go on but that's
not in my nature so
um first um I think I mentioned at the
last meeting
that I didn't know there was a consensus
and um I wish that somebody would have
come to me and expressed that because I
would have helped to try to get a
conversation um I do believe that we had
some conversations about the um pay um
the training pay and all of that at one
time during a study session and that
might have been a good time to bring
this up so my concern is that we need to
get a we need to understand that a
little better so that um again if I
would have known perhaps when I saw that
I would have made sure that that was
posted correctly so I I I want to work
on that together that if anybody feels
that they had a consensus and weren't
heard at any meeting or it wasn't
brought back I'd like to know just so I
can help bring that back because I don't
think that was at least in my mind it
was
never um let's not ever talk about it it
just wasn't my priority so I didn't
track it so for that I apologize but um
I think
that I appreciate all the information
because um we really haven't had that
all of this um it does help me if I if I
can get it in writing at least so that
I'm not writing all these numbers down
so that I can have conversations with
you later but um
so I think maybe that was why it was
felt like it came in at the last minute
because I wasn't expecting it um and I I
can't speak for others so that that
would be my only comment with that but
um
I think as I mentioned I'm not opposed
to having the conversation about the
value of a council member's time and
Leadership experience expected to make
highlevel policy decisions for this
community but I I still feel it's the
time spent as a town council member that
it's about community service and not
about ensuring a salary commensurate
with the
career I think we we talked a little bit
last meeting and quite frankly I believe
that the amount of time spent to be a
good council member and there is a
difference between someone who might
just want to sit up here and be a good
council member varies dependent on the
depth of knowledge on critical the
critical issues where council's
decisions are going to be
required the 30 40 hours a week I spend
and put into this position was based on
my own
decision and desire to directly be
involved D in key policies projects
managing some of the unprecedented
number of Ethics complaints maybe some
of the inviting that was going on in
community unrest so that was my decision
to get really deep into those things and
if I had uh kept my time devoted to only
the issues before the DI I could
probably have easily done so with a very
part-time position now I'm saying that
because I've been involved in Council
meetings and DEC decision not the
decisions but the behind the scenes
stuff for 30 years so maybe that puts me
in a different position than new council
members
but I think at our last meeting I and I
think some others were just a little
offended I think by the direction the
conversation went um when it was
relay that um the only reason we want a
p is to be to cons to consider it is to
ensure quality candidates run for
Council and I believe in my heart that
the comments were not meant to convey
that those sitting on the Das today or
yesterday were not quality
candidates but unfortunately I think
some people may have taken that and
that's why I say I know that wasn't the
intent but I think maybe it came across
that way and I just wanted to share that
um
so in regards to I just want to
share um for the record that we have had
many qualified and outstanding council
members who have served with full-time
jobs running their own businesses and
still made important decisions during
rough times to move our community
forward and this was all before we had
the hybrid virtual work options that we
have today these had to be iners
meetings and so I'm just going to name
some people and by the way I'm not
leaving anybody out on purpose so I just
want you to know that so if your name's
not mentioned it's not because of
anything other than I was just going
quickly
um so just I know we have an hour and a
half so I get I get my time thank you um
I'll just go down the list and some of
these are long time ago but I've been
involved for 30 years so I guess I'm
going to name some names but um so Les
presma um I don't know if he had 12 or
16 years so I just apologize for that um
on the council while working for Phoenix
uh SRP and Phoenix Dave kroer 16 years
while working for APS and most of that
time was out at Pao verie nuclear on the
other side of Buckeye Larry Morris in 16
years while he traveled for work on a
regular basis Steve Yuri 16 years while
owning his own business Linda Abbott
eight years while teaching high school
so I want to bring up the fact that we
have had a high school um a school
teacher um
Joe Albright eight years while managing
her own business Cynthia Dunham worked
full-time cared for aging parents and
was mayor as well Joan Krueger worked
full-time and traveled for work Jen
Daniels worked part-time and raised four
small children Amy yentis worked
full-time and raised three small
children Scott September worked
full-time and traveled for work young
Kowski owns her own business raising two
small children and travels for work
Jordan Ray 9 years worked full-time
travel and raised five small children
John sense a veteran retired and a small
business
owner I was racking my brains there is
only a a few been a few retired council
members Don scowen me and Scott and each
of us put in decades of community
service before we ran and so it's not
just about being retired it's about the
community service that went into it and
it's about the time that we're willing
to put into
it I
um I just don't feel that the argument
that we left at the last
meeting that um about money for future
candidates is a good
argument for this
discussion I'd say um sorry I didn't
read that right got carried away awful
lot of stuff ke I know and I've got a
lot to say about it we're going to be
here all night then that's all right
well you guys had a chance I waited I
know but I'm just looking at this
printed sheet you're reading from it's
long it is so anyway I think that there
was a comment made that the people on
this Das moved on to other positions
because they weren't making enough money
and so I just want to address that
because I believe they realized that
they were invested in a retirement
system in a and getting a government job
meant they continue to be vested and
that was good retirement planning on
their part I don't believe that 10 to
$30,000 more would have kept them here
they had other plans for their family
when it came to
it I've had exactly one person contact
me to tell me they could not run because
of the money but I've had dozens and
it's only been this past year or two I
can tell you more over the years that
came to me
and said they could not afford the
amount of time required to be a good
council member the time away from their
family was number one and they don't
want to have themselves or their family
subjected to the threats or the negative
campaigning we have seen here in Gilbert
over the last several elections as a
very close number two reason why they're
not
running these are people who have put in
the time to be engaged and learn about
the processes and priorities within the
town through various boards commissions
ex other
activities now those
are uh concerns I'd like us to address
how can we make the time more reasonable
so people can participate and still keep
their
jobs um I've worked tirelessly with the
staff to enhance the onboarding process
for council members to help with that
exhaustive transition period that you
you have all experienced and I have as
well and I'm sure there's other ways to
help bring council members up to speed
to limit the amount of time that they
have away from their daily work raising
the pay does nothing to make up for the
hours needed to do your day job unless
you are a commission-based
employee or or that's your profession
you may have a little more leeway in
your time and it
allows those types of jobs allows more
flexibilities and hours in a position
that cannot take time off for daytime
meetings I will tell you Linda Abbott
had to miss a lot of daytime meetings
because she was a teacher she had to get
caught up at
night as a reminder all Council
candidates are given the pay information
before running and no one that I'm aware
of has made that their Campaign theme
they knew it coming in so where does it
leave us today we have to look
at is there going to be an increase in
the
future and what does that look like I'll
save those comments for the actual
decision
making but the one thing that I
do want to
say is
that at this
point every candidate running today know
and every sitting councilman
member has the knowledge of the pay that
we have
today and if we are honest with the
public and say this is not about us then
if we're going to do any pay increase it
should be for 2027 when everybody up
here is going to run again and they can
use that as their
platform we have a tight budget the fact
that we've had to raise rates
significantly for our residents and
businesses to cover cost and the fact
that each of us agreed to the salary
when we accepted this position it is a
very bad look and the public is upset
about it and those running as I said
this
year
um they they don't have that decision so
if we're going to do a pay raise it
needs to be 2027 if the argument is
truly to get good candidates to run if
that is not the argument and we want to
give ourselves a raise which the mayor
and I will be exempt from but our give
ourselves a raise we need to be very
honest with the public and say that if
we're going to put it out for
2026 we're giving ourselves a raise
because we believe we deserve it and
those who will be leaving and those who
were before didn't have the same value
that we have today and I that offends me
again I don't mind having the
conversation I don't even mind being
honest and saying I my time is valuable
I don't mind having that conversation
but I don't want to have a conversation
that says we're doing it for the future
but we're going to take advantage of it
I I don't like that conversation so
those are my comments thank you thanks
council member M Tuson first can't talk
to you due to open meting laws you know
that so to say that nobody brought it to
your attention if I've talked to two
people I can't and you know that so no
no you know
that you know that there's open median
law problems with that but the
uh the concern goes back with to what
Chuck said if we want to go back to
people that are of means being the ones
that can that can run we can do that we
want to talk Constitution let's go back
to 17 you know 89 or whatever and let's
talk oh rich white land owners there you
go oh and male so bringing all these
things into
context there's certainly there's time
spent for community service certainly
there is I've done that also I've
volunteered on boards here for years in
fact 10 years ago in fact 10 years ago I
did run and viciously attacked to the
point where people were I don't even
want to say what they were saying my
wife did and it was ridiculous currently
I am still getting my house vandalized
so to say that I don't put up with it
there's not a cost outside of there
there certainly is people don't want to
run because they're attacked people
don't want to run because there's vitri
all in this community where you get
again somebody's dropping paint on my
house with a a
freaking uh drone it's it's
ridiculous uh the speaking directly is
now considered offensive I believe that
people that are offended make their own
choice to be offended about that because
I want to speak clearly and directly so
it doesn't bother me the uh but when
you're talking about predecessors
whether it be Linda Abbott or Dave
Crower some of who got had some horrible
names like noow attached to them uh
these people didn't put in enough time
that's how we got stuck back then with
the zincy land deal nobody bothered to
check an appraisal for $57 million
because they were part-timing it and
that was 20 years ago the uh people like
John Lewis come to my office John did
say he left for pay he did Eddie cook in
my office last week laughed he goes well
certainly a lot better going to to
$77,000 a year which is what he did uh
Steve Yuri at my office the week before
saying the same thing that you guys need
to do something because you're missing
too many people you don't C pass a wide
enough net Steve Burman again in my
office just last week same thing the
longest serving mayor of this town has
had said the same thing so to sit there
and say oh no it's not you can't do this
well and read every one of these things
and do everything part-time you want to
sit there and cast say that you can you
can't people have done it everybody here
especially people that served before us
have said they've watched people that
didn't read the packet so if we want to
continue to have people that don't read
the packet that don't put in the time
this is what we do we put it out there
that you you put yourself open for the
attacks you put yourself open for
vandalism of your home you do all those
things and you will continue to get that
part-time I'm committed to doing the job
right it takes a lot of time but I've
already heard one person say well I only
consider it a part-time
job great this is what I'm going to get
a part-time guy fantastic that's what I
need somebody that's not read into this
uh unfortunately I wanted this handled
before this so that we had a wider pool
which we don't have we did not luck out
this time and have a wide enough pool
there may be some great people there I'm
not discounting them before they sit
it's not fair I'm not even endorsing a
single person publicly so that's where
that goes but when you said tight budget
well you guys added another $80,000 Che
charity guess what the people that paid
that money into that general fund they
don't get to write it off on their taxes
we decided we were going to give more
charity out of that tight budget was
that brought up in advance no it wasn't
brought up in advance it was just done
on the dis so we have issues like this
where there's it goes both ways Kathy
when you look at saying oh well our
water rates went up that's an Enterprise
fund that has nothing to do with any of
this you know that why would you even
say that it's disingenuous to say that
so when we're giving a money way to
charity and we're doing these things and
these people do not have a say in where
it goes they don't get to write it
off yet we're going to talk about what
people may or may not experience we
wasted more M money on ethics complaints
we wasted more money on on mediation we
wasted more money on First Amendment
lawsuits it's absolutely
ridiculous some of the stuff this
Council has done and we need to have
people that come in full-time when our
last two Mayors left and it was over
money that's
scary sure yes thank
you I
was I appreciate your passion I do I was
given examples and you have your opinion
I have mine on know so we we'll agree to
disagree on some of that stuff
but my point and my bottom line
is if this is truly about making sure we
have candidates that are going to be
able to afford the
time and get the
money for the future it's too late for
2026 then 2027 is the date that we
should be making this
effective that's my point and all of
that I was addressing some of the
comments that were made last time and so
again we we'll agree to disagree with it
but that's my bottom line it if this is
truly for the future that's the
date if if you guys come up and you say
you want
2026 you're saying you deserve a
raise not that we're trying to
um get qualified candidates to run so
that's my bottom line the rest of this
you and I can have disagreements on
different funding sources but that's my
bottom line on
that thank you council member bonani
thank you uh council member till you
know I have the utmost respect for you
and I'm going to totally miss you after
you're off this
dis
um but to worry about the appearance of
things let's face it
four of us may run again in
2026 One Two Three or all four of us are
going to win are we voting ourselves a
raise we are whether we're doing it in
2026 or whether we're doing it next year
we still are the odds of one of us
losing it's pretty pretty slim I've
never seen it happen
before when a leader makes a
decision they take the consequences of
that decision and they also take the
benefits of that decision if a
consequence of a decision is people are
angry with me and I don't get reelected
even if I'm even if I decide to run
again that's my cross to bear and that's
my consequence for making any decision I
make on this dis I'm not going to make a
decision for an appearance if if I'm
making a decision hoping that people
forget about it by
2027 I don't want to be that kind of
politician and I don't wantan to I don't
want anyone up here that's got to vote
only because they're fearful that they
may they may lose if they vote on
something I want people to vote from the
heart and not be fearful of if I do this
vote people are going to get mad at me
and they won't they won't uh they won't
elect me reelect me again it's it's it
the
appearance it doesn't make sense to me
again it's j used the word it's
disingenuous it's trying to be
politically correct um if we believe
that this should be adjusted then it
should be adjusted we don't want to wait
till later not because we have to I
don't need the money but it's because
it's it's a decision that you make as a
leader you don't want to just put it off
in hopes that people forget about it
because that's
disingenuous that really is I'd rather
have them say you know what Chuck two
years ago you voted yourself a raise and
I'm mad at you and I'm not going to vote
for you again again right I'd rather
have them that happen to me than have
them forget about it you know and and be
like well we won't mention it again and
maybe people will forget about they'll
vote for me I
I to me it's all about decisions you
make a decision you suffer the
consequences and that's it there's
there's nothing more about that I'm not
going to try to fool anybody by have
them maybe forget about it hell I'll
even remind them in two years and hold
that to me if I decide to ever run again
for this thing
would you like to respond yes thank you
um I have the same um feelings Chuck
about you so um but I I I don't mind
having good conversations and have
disagreements um
again the the conversation coming from
those who put this on the agenda has
been solely
on future
candidates that's what I don't think is
transparent and that's what I'm trying
to get to I'm saying I don't I don't
like voting myself raise in the midst of
other things that's my decision whether
I'm going to do that or not but I want
us to be very
honest with the public that this isn't
this is about
people who on this Das who support this
raise believe that they deserve a raise
and that's what this is about and by the
way we will get good candidates in the
future that's what I want to be
transparent to the public I don't want
it to seem like we're really doing this
for the future but oh gosh we get to
take advantage of it because I don't
think that's transparent and so as long
as we are having a conversation that the
public understands that that's really
what we're doing giving ourselves a
raise for the next two
years and hoping that the next set of
candidates that come forward will fill
the pay is more value I'm okay having
that conversation okay I just want to
make it clear that's that's my
point council member tgon let's go back
just six months when we were asking for
this to be
considered and people were filing to run
for office just six months ago somehow
it got tanked somehow people were told
there wasn't a consensus it would have
done
exactly what we were attempting to do
but then because it gets pushed because
some people say oh there's no consensus
someone has gotten someone's ear and
pushes it back my initial thought on it
was great I didn't understand there was
a parity rule for for Council Members
cuz on a state level it doesn't exist my
attorney and another one looked at and
said nope you know it it will only go to
the newly elected then we find out
because of a certain Council in another
part of the state there is a parody rule
uh that's
fine but had this been done just six
months ago we wouldn't be having the
same conversation it should have
happened more than 6 months ago but
because people some where wanted to let
this go aside it's not where it should
be it should have happened months and
months and months ago when it could have
when when it was in the
paper but did it happen no did we get to
accomplish what we tried to accomplish
no so no matter what if I if it had
passed six months
ago because of parody guess
what everybody get a raise
that wasn't the intent of it but at this
point I am completely tired of dealing
with whatever is going on around here
that prevents conversations from going
correctly prevents things from hitting
when they should when discussions should
happen when they should we should have
done this a long time ago we'd still get
accused of it I'm going to get accused
of so many things I'm going to be the
guy that takes the bullet and to be
frank I don't think I'm going to run
again because I get people that say
they're my friends that don't
participate at all and all of a sudden
they're blowing me up over stuff they
don't even know about I'm tired of it
already so I don't care if I take a
bullet or not anymore I got cornered
last night by 20 people on
misinformation about
Redevelopment so I don't care anymore
but the fact is is that we when we have
a consensus to have discussions and they
don't happen this is the kind of mess we
get so I don't care I will bear every
sling and arrow whether it goes 27 25 or
yesterday I don't care I am not going to
be pushed into anything when I have
simply tried to do the right thing to
open this up and somehow it got
sabotaged any comments council member
Buckley I don't really I don't have too
too many comments because I think
they've all been said here and uh
I agree with everything that that Chuck
said I was I was a little bit offended
by some of the things that that Kathy
mentioned but I'm not going to go there
because I don't think this is the place
to do that
um you know you you keep bringing up for
New New council members coming in we
actually have four people that are
running for Council right now who will
be coming in and would benefit by this
as well it is it would not be just us it
will take effect for the new members
that come in in
2026 or 2025
26 five yeah I say Kathy kept saying 26
so I that's why I thought I was wrong
speaking to the election date 26 the
next election is 26 yeah okay okay so I
just I just wanted to bring that up and
um and I and also I know Kathy had
mentioned that you know that she and
Scott were retired and some you know
other council members
but you know I think the thing that
bothered me most that she did not
mention council member Bon Giovani
council member torguson nor myself who
all run our own businesses and it takes
a lot of time to run a business and and
we all I don't know about any of you
guys but my my morning starts at 5:00
a.m. every day and if I'm in bed by
midnight I'm just like Oh yay because
that's my day to make sure that I do
this and I want to be a good council
member I want to do everything right
right I read everything I analyze stuff
I do all the right things and it is a
full-time job I don't care what anybody
says it's a full-time job so I am
fortunate that I'm a real estate broker
I can make my own schedule but just
because I can do that doesn't mean I
don't because I work hard every single
day and I work all day Saturday and all
day Sunday and I can't remember when I
had a day off and so I just want to
bring that up that you know everyone on
this Di and and the mayor as well I mean
she puts in a she puts in more hours
than probably I do working two jobs so
anyway that's that's all I have to say
about that and and I I I feel you know
not happy that this all got
delayed and I wasn't particularly happy
with the way it got presented and and
and I'm sorry for that Jim because I
think I think that it got presented the
way it did because we couldn't get any
attention any other
way council member bonani yeah I want to
agree with um council member tus and and
I I didn't think about this gim but
you're right if um if this was taken
care of when we brought it up this
wouldn't even be an issue right now
100% the other thing is you know people
made comments before that you know
service is a privilege and it is it's an
honor and then we should we should do it
for
free well and they brought up the school
board um the school board is probably
the most
partisan
board created ever for any
government and and when I nothing
nothing against people running for
school boards but when they don't that
when they want to run for free to me
there's there's a hidden agenda there
and so I I don't I don't believe that
that people who serve should serve for
free just
because there's there's too many
potentials of of hating the
agendas and I don't plan anyone to
making a career out of being on
councel but they shouldn't go
negative um being being on councel they
shouldn't
uh they should be able to at least do a
good job and work the hours they need to
work and we are we are eliminating again
a certain number of people from doing
that by not raising this and again
reality is you make a decision you make
a decision you don't kick it down the
can and people
forget vice mayor just a quick comment I
appreciate the U presentation by the
staff that's the purpose of a study
session is to receive data and I thought
that's what we were doing here tonight
is receive data from them so that we
could have vigorous debate at a public
hearing which is to be
determined um so I I look forward to
continuing that debate in in a public
form when the public is here can hear it
as a public
hearing that'll that'll be in about an
hour and a half whenever we get to this
topic on the
agenda um council member Buckley thank
you for your comments about how much
time I put into this position I've
actually had two full days off recently
which doesn't happen often I know I know
um I thought I would add that because I
knew you would say you were jealous but
um council member tilki you hit on so
many points that I had made for notes
for myself which was to kind of go
through a list of the council members
and what they've done for a living over
the years because I think it was
important to talk about the quality of
people that we have had serving this
community because I think that it was
really missed at the last meeting and
even um myself um I don't think that I
covered it well and Linda Abbott was a
full-time teacher and couldn't
necessarily do the liaison positions
during the day but took on things at
night so you make those adjustments and
they didn't have Retreats on weekdays
they had Retreats on week nights and
weekends you and I have sat at them out
of town in town on week nights and
weekends to make sure that people didn't
have to miss their full-time job
positions so they didn't have to take
time off for the full-time job positions
and the only person I couldn't remember
was what did Mike Evans do for a
living oh he's a school teacher too that
and I was thinking that but I for the
life of me I could not remember what my
did for a living and Jared Taylor W
works at a charter school so he's busy
during school hours also and um so we
have had a great quality of council
members and Mayors over the years and
yes they have left for different reasons
and yes some might have been for a
little bit more money because also they
had a different retirement system that
that pushed them into that and council
member tus and we talked about one of
those recently that did just that um we
are not in that system I think I was the
first new council member in 2015 that
came in under the new system that it
really doesn't behoove you to go to a
different position obviously if you make
more money in the in an elected position
the more is going to go into your
retirement and that's another benefit
that you get from the community as part
of your full compensation but I had a
few slides um June could you bring my
slides up please because I because this
has become such a topic and because I
think all of you know one of my pet
peeves is that I think the first thing I
talk talked to the new council members
about was rsvping for events and being
at events and if you're going to RSVP
being there and if we're if we are going
to be if we are going to be talking
about increasing pay I think there's a
need to be a little bit more accountable
to the community for that also and the
Queen Creek IL actually on their agenda
when they do their report outs which we
do at the end of our meetings they do at
the beginning of their meetings right
after proclamations they do committee
reports and that is a report out on
everything that the council has attended
June can you go to the next slide and
this is what they show and council
member sent this to me after they
watched our last meeting because they
thought that it might be helpful uh Quin
Creek council member um they report out
all of the other events that and
meetings that mayor and Council have
attended over the month and if something
strikes their fancy they can say hey I
went to gek and I learned this by going
to gek and share it with the community
and with the rest of the council so I
had Kirsten go back and and create May
and up until yesterday in June for the
Gilbert Town Council June can you go to
the next slide this is May I wanted the
public to see that this isn't a
part-time job for most of the people
sitting up here it is quite a service
and a lot of time that people give to
this position and I wanted to offer this
to the council as a possibility of
something that we do for com for report
outs from the council and maybe we
adjust our agenda again and move those
to the beginning of the meeting because
the beginning of the meeting is when you
actually have public in the room so when
you get to do your okay council member
Bon Giovani this is a joke so don't take
it personally your Nar voice at the end
and you do community you know you do
your report outs right that there's
people in the room to actually hear what
you're reporting doesn't count meetings
right it this does not count Town it
does count Town Council meetings no but
meetings that we have with staff it
doesn't it doesn't count briefings that
you do with staff those would be a lot
harder to track and even this is hard to
track and because of the fact that I
just mentioned which was a lot of times
people RSVP for things but they don't
attend so it's hard to keep track of so
we would need some sort of a mechanism
that you reported back to Monica or
Taylor that you actually attended this
event so when we went through I did a
lot of this Kirsten did the work and
then I did some from memory and she
checked with Taylor and with Kurt for
with Monica to fill in some gaps but if
you look at this list and all the things
we tried to include our executive
sessions board and Council interviews
that's all Council all Council all
Council there's um school board meeting
attended by council member Buckley
Chandler by uh Chandler board meeting by
council member ban Giovani all the
things that we are aound to next slide
please June this is the rest of May but
you know as you can see my name's up
there a lot because I don't sleep when I
unless I have two days off which is
unusual um and then we went into June
June if you could go to June June thank
you June um and this was for June up
until last night that six of us were in
any executive session for 2 hours last
evening and I don't even include the
time on here but for the public to see
the amount of time that mayor and
Council spends in these positions all of
councel at an executive session on June
3D if I put the time down there we
started at 4:30 and I think I got home
at 9:10 p.m. and that was our annual
evaluations for our four employees three
sitting over there and our judge
executive session the next night before
um for other items that we had to
discuss before our next council meeting
and then the other things are a lot of
assignments that we do during the day
mag mag domestic violence is um a liais
on position for council member tilki
that she does during the day and she's
right we have had the benefit of now
things can be done virtually so we don't
always have to drive today for example
my mag Transportation policy committee
meeting was changed from yesterday to
today but I had Phoenix m Gateway at
9:00 this morning and didn't have time
to drive down to Downtown Phoenix so I
was able to do TPC virtually from my
home before I had three more meetings
tonight um so we do have that Advantage
now but I liked the idea that Queen
Creek threw out and I wanted to offer it
up to you because again I do think that
there is a misnomer and I've heard that
from this Council
that there's it doesn't take a lot of
time Council tus and you've said it I
don't know how many times not what you
were told not what you were told to
expect am I right am I oh you by the
same people that say it's a parttime job
right and so but but another thing that
I think I told the three of you when you
were new council member too is you do
this position to the level that you
choose to do this position to it's not
the same for everybody council member
deserves people give it all they do and
they've had that though and and I don't
want it to come out like we are being
negative to the people that have served
before us or that anybody on this Das
the current people sitting on this dis
feel that their time is more valuable
than the people that have served before
I know that you've said that people
don't read their packets I know that
people have said that I don't read my
packet do I miss things absolutely
sometimes we have 3,000 page packets
tonight ours is what 22 2700 Pages thank
you so
sometimes you miss a line sometimes you
don't get to see everything sometimes I
get interrupted 10 times as I'm trying
to read the packet that I'm trying to
read for the next meeting and I have a
lot of assignments 19 I think that I'm
trying to keep track of on the on thank
goodness for staff because of that but
my point
is if you want to be shown to be
accountable the community you have to
show the community what you're doing and
so thank you to H for going through the
effort of putting this together to show
tonight at this evening
um I'm going to feel the same way as I
do and I think it's more of a Phil
philosophical feeling I understand what
you're saying about an increase in pay
and I understand your reasons for
discussing the increase in Pay I do not
think it should go to the level that was
recommended two weeks ago I think that
that is
way more than anybody in this community
should be expecting to pay the members
that are sitting on this dis and and
again it's a philos it might be a
philosophical difference do I think that
people should get paid nothing no and I
said that two weeks ago I do not think
people should get paid nothing and I
know that there are former council
members that feel that way and I've had
this discussion with them on this Das
it's not something that I believe but we
will move into the next part of this
discussion during our public hearing
this evening so we need need to be
prepared with what that looks like I
just want everybody to keep in mind if
you increase the pay it increases the
amount the town has to pay into your
retirement it increases every level of
everything and that compensation the
final compensation that Nathan showed
tonight gets larger and larger and
larger when I look at my compensation
online as mayor and I don't take the
health insurance because I choose not to
cost this community extra money mine's
over $80,000 for compensation between my
salary of
43,000 what the town pays into the he to
into the um retirement system and I have
a car allowance that I have for driving
my personal vehicle to all of the events
that I go to which you can see um on the
list there and so it's a much bigger
picture and that's what I was concerned
with at the last discussion was that we
were only focused on the pay but there's
a lot more that goes into that
discussion and that's what I wanted to
have and that's why I asked asked for
the full compensation to be discussed
tonight council member one Giovani yes
um I just want to noted that today is
June 18th at 6:16 p.m. and I absolutely
agree with you on putting in putting
down to the public telling them letting
them letting them know exactly what we
do every single day so thank you for
that and I agree with you on
that thank you I think another level of
that that this council is going to need
to discuss and it's sort of a budget
conversation but it's more of a tracking
of the budget conversation if we are
RSVP rsvping to attend events that are
paid and we don't show
up how are we going to track that and
what is this Council going to do about
that and I just want you
to let that simmer right because I think
it's something that this Council needs
to discuss and again it is US costing
the community
money no matter what and no matter what
it comes out of it is US costing the
community money and that would go along
with if you if you agree and like this
then that would go along with you're
reporting back that you did attend this
let Monica know if you are a CVP were
you there and and sometimes you know
Taylor will be there sometimes Monica
will be there other council members will
be there and it can be a shared joint
effort but again for the community to
see what goes on in this position and to
be completely transparent with that I
like this
idea okay any other comments questions
discussion or does everybody want to end
this and recess before we come back in 9
minutes okay I will adjourn this meeting
thank
you for