Study Session - 9/10/2024 5:15:00 PM

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good evening everyone if you'd like to
take your seats make sure that your cell
phones are pleased turned to silent or
off we I'll go ahead and call this study
session to order is Tuesday September
10th
2024 we have one item on our agenda this
evening presentation and discussion on
the meet and conferred process with
Gilbert Police and Fire labor
associations staff I believe that you're
going to kick off this presentation this
evening thank you mayor members of the
council yeah we've got a lot of
information to cover with you tonight
we're going to have a number of our uh
team members legal our two chiefs
representatives from our labor
associations and then HR to cover a Iona
State statutes as they govern what is in
common vernacular referred to as public
sector unions the statute referred to it
as a meet and confer process so we'll
walk you through that and the steps that
uh are part of that we'll walk you
through the history of meet and confer
and Gilbert talk about the differences
between formal and informal processes
we'll hear from Gilbert Fire and PD
labor Association Representatives we'll
talk about our current compensation and
benefits philosophy as a town and then
there's been some recent Supreme Court
ruling that have some impact on meet and
confer in Arizona that legal will run
through as well but with that I'll go
ahead and turn it over to uh legal and
we'll get the discussion
started when he said legal it's because
he can't remember your name I'm just
wasn't that obvious I know you to well
Patrick thank you for
that oh it's true study session we can
be a little fun sorry it's study session
we can be a little fun yes thank you uh
mayor and Council and manager Baner I am
Amanda Jenkins U an assistant Town
attorney um and I'm going to be
presenting our first few slides here uh
which just give a general overview of
the terms that we're going to be using
and the town's own history with the meet
and confer process uh so first up we
have our
definitions can you oh I have the
clicker okay sorry I haven't done this
before it it's your first time
presenting with us isn't it a yes at a
council meeting okay what am I doing
wrong did they give you a secret word
that you had to say all right
no um all right meet and confer is
Arizona's version of public labor union
negotiations so what meet and confer is
is a formalized process that would be
codified into city or town code uh that
establishes specific procedures by law
for negotiation of employ ment and
Personnel issues and meet and confer
then would replace any informal or
currently practice discussion of
employment and Personnel issues and it
limits them to those procedures that we
establish by law typically the goal of a
meet and confer is to create or finalize
a contract known as the memorandum of
understanding orou
theou then documents and details all of
the employment related concerns that
have been discussed and mutually agreed
upon during that meet and confer
process and then finally although the
mutually agreed mou is created during
the meet and confer process it's not
final or binding until Council has
approved
it and then a general overview of how
meet and confer would work uh for
Council and the town uh for as for
Council council's role would first be to
approve an ordinance adopting the meet
and confer
procedure and then finally after all of
the negotiations are settled Council
would consider the final proposed mou
that results from those meet and
confer
negotiations um the role of management
and staff here at the Town first
management would develop the procedures
for the meet and confer process in
accordance with the ordinance um and
then staff and management participate in
scheduled usually weekly or bi-weekly
negotiations about the proposed
mou historically the town manager did
not participate in that part of the
process but Town staff was very much
involved and then finally once all of
those negotiations are concluded and a
final mou is agreed upon by all sides
thatou would be presented to council by
the manager's office um the role of the
labor
associations uh historically the labor
associations uh have been responsible
for producing that initial memorandum of
understanding uh to start off the
negotiations and the labor Association
participate in those scheduled weekly or
bi-weekly meet and confirm negotiations
to negotiate um the theou going
forward and then the typical guard rails
of
theou they usually last uh two to three
years some have been as short as one
year but commonly it's a 2 to threee mou
and once thatou has been approved by
Council it's closed uh once approved and
so it's also those employment and
Personnel issue negot iations are closed
until the next process to to negotiate
them and it becomes a binding contract
that all the parties must
follow now Gilbert has had meet and
confer in the past um just to go way way
back we the town of Gilbert's Police
Department was organized in 1977 and the
fire department was organized in
1993 um but we didn't have meet and
confer until November 13th 2007 and
that's when Council approved our first
meet and confer ordinance for employee
labor associations and that included
police fire and all other employees not
in supervisory roles so there were three
labor associations that met and
conferred uh with Town
management at that time uh the ordinance
at that time time was quite long it
contained thorough instructions for the
entire meet and confer process um and
then notably it had a sunsetting
provision that would end meetting
negotiations from 2008 to
2013 um we know from from our notes on
the time period that uh Town management
met with the labor organizations weekly
for approximately six months to
negotiate the first mou that went from
2009 to 201
10 and they um they then had I think by
annual M after that then finally on May
16th 2013 Council accelerated the Sunset
date of the ordinance moving it up by
six months um and that then existing mou
was set to expire on June 30th
2014 uh and meet and confer at that
point was allowed to expire
and then finally in February of 2020 uh
Council approved the deletion of section
2- 62 which was our meet and confer
ordinance in its entirety just to update
the code to not have an expired policy
in there so that was our history of meet
and
confer do you have any questions thus
far seeing none all right thank you
greetings mayor council she soberg and I
are going to present on the next few
slides uh just giving some additional
updates and information about the
process of the mou I want to talk a
little bit about uh the transition
period after uh the ordinance was
repealed in in
2013 um at this point the town was
committed to ensuring that the benefits
held within that last mou were rolled
into the Personnel rules and
administrative guidelines at the time uh
so there was a partnership between Labor
Management teams and the HR team to
review all those provisions and try to
do the best that the team could to
ensure those benefits were applied um in
the Personnel rules and the guidelines a
lot of collaboration between the two
teams to go through the language and
figure out the most effective way to put
those benefits into our existing rules
and
guidelines uh second part that we
developed after this was an
interest-based policy this is specific
uh to the fire department I want to talk
just a bit about what that means to say
interest based and a policy in in
decision-making um really it's about
collaborative efforts to try to uncover
win-win situations and solutions to
problems when we do this we essentially
discuss what any issue on any particular
cic excuse me what any issue is on a
particular topic and with that we need
to disclose why that issue was important
those are the interests related to it
both sides whether in a labor management
process or in a defined uhou process
essentially come forward and say this is
why this issue is important both sides
disclose that typically what we find in
an effective interest-based discussion
is that there are many shared interests
between the parties an example of a
shared interest between labor and
management we all are here to serve and
protect our members our resident and our
businesses everyone can agree that
that's a shared interest and really is
at the center of what we do and all the
decisions we make including the Das here
today so as we work through that we try
to find again what are the shared
interest and which ones are not shared
because there will be some from there
now we get to Solutions and this is
important part of the process that we
just don't go to make Solutions without
having some discussions about why it's
important on all parties and discuss the
implications
we develop multiple Solutions and then
we balance those solution and say which
solution satisfies the most interest of
both parties typically that's the
decision or solution that's best suited
because it answers most of those
interests generally it's effective you
get transparent conversations that build
trust among two parties so that's kind
of the when you hear interest based in
discussions uh what we kind of Define
those terms and how they can be very
effective no matter what process um
Council decides is appropriate uh for
the town of
Gilbert um from there we also at
direction from Town Council through our
town manager to initiate regularly
occurring meetings between fire
department leadership Police Department
leadership and the labor leaders um at
the time Chief Joe Bush began meetings
with the labor president at the time
weekly um upon myself becoming fire
chief we expanded that a little bit uh
from the very first weeks expanded to
meet with myself and the labor
leadership team which is typically three
members uh since then after about a year
or so we decided to expand that out
further where to myself and my two
assistant Chiefs which collectively we
call Senior staff meet every Wednesday
or nearly every Wednesday sometimes
schedules on either party Collide to
meet with our labor team to discuss
whatever issues or questions or concerns
they might have or that we might have to
try to figure out how we can come with
some collaborative decisions but also
report out on the progress of all of our
Labor Management teams and the decisions
they're making in their process as well
and how we can help them and provide
guidance for them regard whales addition
um we're directed to have quarterly
meetings between the town manager's
office the Chiefs and our labor leaders
and that's essentially the meeting
schedule that we conducted following
that uh Chief sober I think your
schedule might be a little bit different
so I don't want to speak on your behalf
on that thank you uh mayor and councel
uh just real quick on uh the PD side
it's very similar to to fire just not as
frequently uh so we do have written
directives uh amongst uh from PD and the
labor organization on how we will oper
operate and currently we meet once a
month and it's a standing standing
meeting if there are needed additional
meetings we're always open to either
side bringing up additional topics that
need to be addressed earlier uh than the
me monthly meeting that we do have and
as uh fire has we also have the
quarterly meetings with uh Town
management as well to address any other
issues that either uh have been
addressed with us or additional issues
for Citywide perspective um the
advantage as I've uh experienced here uh
in Gilbert with this type of uh
atmosphere it's very open so if there is
a new topic a new issue um they have an
open door and we have a regularly uh
scheduled meeting time but as I
mentioned we're always open to meet in
addition to that and so we have the
advantage of um the infrastructure and
and the uh that discussion uh that
without the formalized form excuse me
the formalized structure of anou and a
meet confer we have the ability to meet
as often as need be and discuss those
issues um I'll turn it back over to
Chief dogen to talk about uh the formal
versus
um
existing so we kind of want to put a
slide together that compares so you have
some context on generally what the
formalized process looked like and how
what our existing process looks like so
during theou U negotiation periods uh we
had weekly meetings of the project team
during the negotiation process mentioned
earlier about 6 months uh to get through
uh those negotiations uh I I put on here
cross- departmental representation uh
because there was a significant amount
of people that were involved in those
meetings typically uh two to three uh
labor Representatives uh we had a
representative from we had an assistant
Town manager that was a part of that
process a rep one or two represent
representative from the people team uh
budget uh was represented because uh I
on some issu there were budgetary
concerns that had to be addressed and
researched uh we had admin support in
part to keep minutes uh and later on
preparation of the contracts legal uh
was a part of it they weren't
necessarily in every meeting but anytime
we had questions about the legality of
any particular issue or solution uh were
brought into that as well so uh it was a
large amount of people again uh
committed to the meetings uh the weekly
meetings at that point that we ran um
come through that process a different
aspect of this understand we talked
about in our existing process how uh the
labor leaders have a chance to meet uh
regularly with the fire chief police
chief and the town manager's office in
the formalized process uh both Chiefs
and the town manager are excluded uh
from that process so it's just a
different way of of doing those
negotiations but it's worth noting uh
that the Chiefs and town manager are not
represented uh on the team uh from that
point uh the ratification process when
it's completed goes through a legal
process to get that complet completed I
won't get into that right now and then
once it's ratified by all parties uh
implementation of of the contract uh one
of the notes at the bottom here is that
um any issues excuse me that come about
after that contract is signed uh by
Council we don't reopen and so typically
any new issues would have to wait until
the next cycle to be discussed uh as a
basis of the of theou uh typically two
years is pretty consistent two to years
uh for contract lengths um primarily
because we talked about the workload of
up to six months just to get through the
negotiations we still have to have the
contract written uh legal review and
then kind of go through some process to
make sure budgetary impacts if any are
addressed uh so typically most agencies
go with a two to three contract year
period because if not you essentially
are in a constant state of contract
negotiations if it's just done annually
uh that was our experience in the past
um as we look to our existing process I
mentioned the uh the Labor Management
Alliance policy for fire uh it's
important to note that this policy
describes again how we develop Solutions
and answers to problems uh we utilize
our Labor Management processes and our
committees to probably answer 90% of our
questions and answers and how we operate
and make decisions uh 10% of those
sometimes will fall outside the bounds
and might resort to management decision
um but for the most part probably 90% of
our regular operating decisions are made
by our committees in that process
management ideally will set the
boundaries within what those decisions
how they can be made and are also
involved in setting our interests based
on management when we come forward in
that interest based approach uh we
talked about the meeting schedule so we
don't need to go further on that one um
the difference uh that we look at now is
how we address new issues uh so the the
flexibility we have the rigidity and the
kind of focus of the formal process
however in the existing process um we
have more opportunities to address
emerging issues we don't have to wait
for the next contract period to discuss
an emerging issue um I'll give a couple
example of those we we'll talk about
them again uh just in a bit um but in
2023 we increased for sworn uh the
vacation Max balance uh that was
directly related to kind of a long-term
effect of covid and inability of our
crews to use vacation Leaf uh that was
an issue brought forward by our labor
team uh when the town made a decision
we're going to cut it off at this date
we recognized that because of some
limitations of our vac
employees mathematically could not take
the vacation they had earned uh within
the time frame that it was going to
expire so that's a good example of the
flexibility and benefit that came
forward with our existing process um the
next one uh that came forward was was
actually the top out pay uh that was
brought forward by the town manager's
office recognizing the market shifts
that were occurring at the time uh we
had the flexibility then Patrick and
team to bring forward the recommendation
of top out pay for saor um so those are
just kind of two examples of of how that
the flexibility uh can benefit uh the
groups outside of uh the contract cuz
without if had we been bound inside of a
contract we wouldn't have been able to
address those two particular issues
until the contract period um
expired Chiefs are you open to take some
questions in between because I think
it's a lot of information so council
member tilki thank you mayor um could
you go back a slide
please thanks
um you said that the town manager it
looks like I don't know if it's just the
manager or his office and Chiefs are not
allowed to be part of or were not in the
formal agreement to be part of this
negotiation project team who is
representing the town of Gilbert
then in those meetings in in the past
process we had an assistant Town manager
okay and then uh people team member
whether director or design um budget
representative uh through that process
were the the main and then administrator
support so those were the main uh really
assistant Town manager HR Director
assistant fire chief I sorry assistant
police chief as well I should have
mentioned that before I think I missed
that one okay um so the assistant Chiefs
come forward to the meeting uh to have
those discussions to represent
management interests okay thank you very
much any other questions at this time
for the Chiefs thanks Chiefs
of course at this point Sorry CC member
thank um you talked about some of the
flexibility and things for giving those
examples do you have any additional
insight as
to challenges that other communities
that had me income fur and and what they
faced
during um like times of Crisis like the
past few years when we did have the
pandemic and the rapid changes in
employment compensation
I'm not fam you got oh kind of Mayor and
council member Kowski um some of we we
reviewed a lot of Theus that are
existing in the valley and as uh Chief
Dugen kind of mentioned uh they're very
specific in um I'll give an example of
uh an agency that they are for PD
they're required to be uh third or just
above third so between second and third
and so I would say the challenges are
Financial so if you have a contract that
requires you do X Y and Z the potential
in a downturn or in a crisis of limited
availability of funds that something
else outside of that contract is going
to have to be
adjusted um that's a loose example um
labor may have some examples as well uh
they're going to be coming up next and
we can certainly we have a few more
examples as we proceed with this we can
address some additional ones if you have
any and again with this we're going to
turn things over I think desay and
Dakota come forward they have a
presentation for you as well one second
I just had uh council member Bon Giovani
turn his mic on thank you thank you
mayor um are we able in those situations
that you just spoke about can we have is
it are is it possible to have in the
contract that if both parties find if
both parties mutually agree that we can
intervene again and be able to make
those changes that are
needed that there are some contract
language that will allow reopener if
both parties agree there's Mutual
benefit okay thank
you if no more we'll turn over uh Shay
and Dakota I believe the floor is yours
great I are they going to come to the
center Podium I think Shay please thank
you Chief you can shut that microphone
off please thank
you shay you'll have to push the button
and I think they put a sticker on it now
to tell you which button to turn on
there we go I usually have to say push a
button I don't know which one it is y
there's a sticker on
it yeah uh thank you Chief dougen and
chief soberg for the introduction and
legal um Madame mayor and esteemed
council members I really just want to
start off by thanking you for um giving
us the opportunity to present why theou
and meet confer is such a strong item
for the town of Gilbert um to touch on
uh Chief solberg's point a little bit
really quick is um one of the items that
uh you talked about is is being able to
reopen things Town Council can
absolutely have have the opportunity to
reopen and then in some of the tougher
times that we have theou process allows
us to um meet and discuss items that are
beneficial to both parties so um in
Phoenix and Mesa their jobs were
actually saved by doing pay freezes um
in theou process so it saves the town
money but it also saves the jobs of the
people that are already working and are
already a part of our family so there
are a lot of positives that can come out
in very tough financial times for anou
so um mean confer is an evolution of
organized employee and employer
Communications the general principles
were actually developed right here in
Arizona uh constant evaluation over the
last 40 years uh has brought effective
and non-c contentious working
relationships and The Guiding principles
are communication accountability
transparency and
collaboration many of the same themes
that we have in in our town already
exist uh back in the 60s and 70s Phoenix
and Tucson several school districts
experienced Discord between labor and
management the parties looked for
Creative Solutions since state law
prevented collective bargaining and
elected officials got together and
created meet and
confer collective bargaining is really
adversarial uh demands proposals
counterproposals
uh contracts are binding and can be
enforced by the courts and the process
weaponizes strikes and lockouts and
slowdowns and we don't believe
collective bargaining is um in any way
emulates meet and confer and we don't
believe it's an effective
process but what makes meet and confer
different is its interest-based
decision- making Just Like Chief Dugen
alluded to um it produces a memorandum
of understanding and the M us are
governed by the Town Council so the
governing body has final decision-making
power power and can accept reject or
modify theou agreement with all
parties why is me confer so sucessful
because the process is built off of
Labor and management working together to
address these Mutual interests Public
Safety groups have tremendous resources
and collaborative ideas for a variety of
solutions and enhancements for any Town
elected and appointed labor
Representatives provide a singular voice
rather than having 100 individuals ideas
requests and solutions um it's important
to note that no no employees required to
join a union and we have a large
percentage of our population within the
fire department that are not a part of
the if um I just happen to be the
elected delegate to represent our
employee group so this is really a uh
contract within employee group not a
labor union or a Union contract so um
without mean confer Association
Representatives become compelled to go
directly to council um if we can create
me and confer it gives us a little bit
better process without having to do that
it strengthens the labor management
process that we have now all parties are
expected to work together in good faith
and with an eye for collaboration
understanding and effective Solutions
the process can include ground rules and
in a rare event where parties are unable
to reach agreement mediation could be
utilized if if needed to all agreements
and disputes are ultimately decided by
Town Council
Members interest based negotiations
strives for Mutual understanding and
common education for both labor and man
management focus on goals concerns that
are common for both parties labor and
management each present and request uh
explain their requests and their needs
and the ensuing discussion revolves
around ways to meet those needs so this
is the opportunity to really be able to
understand each other understand labor
and understand management and it gives
us the opportunity to work together to
be able to really understand what the
interest is of the other party and
that's ultimately what will create the
most positive outcome for our employee
group this style of negotiating is
incredibly positive and creates a
collaborative partnership and many
modern Union management contracts are
bargained very successfully using this
style but the results are a win-win
situation for all of
us some of the advantages are helps
manage effectively uh address varying
issues of diverse employee groups allows
for flexibility uh for economic changes
kind of like we talked about in some of
the very tough times there are
opportunity for the mou to really come
up with a decision that we both own
responsibility of Labor and management
and we share that
responsibility in order to protect our
town and the citizens and the budgets
that we
have it provides an organized conduit
for employee and employer Communications
thereby preventing uh issues from going
before Council on a regular basis
significantly expands employee
understanding of budget policy and
issues and increases transparency for
employee employer issues the
transparency part here is really about
just learning what it means to think um
like our town uh our town manager Our
Town manager's office Our Town Council
Members it gives us the opportunity to
um share each other's ideas and to
understand why the um the the reasons
are that we do things and um gives us
the opportunity to talk about those and
to learn about
them it provides effective solutions to
issues from employee groups often
identified well before management has it
on the radar it supports safer working
conditions saves time effort and money
improves leadership development through
a collaborative process there's a lot of
really big points in here that are super
important to us but leadership
development is one of the biggest ones
um it allows Future Leaders of our
organization U you know that rise
through the ranks to already understand
what it means to look at budgets and to
come up with collaborative Solutions
which is the Cornerstone of what we all
do anyway um it can save time effort and
money with the ability to um actually
have and create committees that are come
out of maybe an agreement with an mou or
or an item on anou um it means that our
Workforce will be the ones doing the
workload uh rather than having to hire a
third party or go outside um 457 could
be a potential option of that where we
have um elected or or uh appointed
members that actually will operate that
committee um they will do the RFP
process RFP processes in order to save
the town money um and First Responders
uh working with the 457 plan
essentially we're a right to work state
state laws permitted by section 14b of
the Taft heartley act that provide in
general that employees are not required
to join a union as a condition of
getting or retaining a job and right to
work laws forbid unions and employers to
enter into agreements requiring to enter
a union or pay dues in order to keep or
get a job so the right to work state
were in no viol of of right to work laws
by entering into a meet and confer um
but like I also said not all of our
members are are union members this is
about our employee
group who else uses mean confer this is
a list of I believe 39 other government
entities around the valley in the state
that use meet and confer um it it's they
use it because it's an effective process
so there's history of positive results
job saved including Phoenix Mesa and
Gilbert um Phoenix and Mesa specifically
came out of theou and and uh had the pay
freezes in order to save jobs um fire
and police involvement in campaigning
that supports economic growth the items
that um you know oftentimes can be
contentious at to our citizens um it
gives us the opportunity to understand
and to be able to join forces for those
things um also involvement in the
district Revenue increases um
involvement in District Revenue
protection
there could be significant employer
employee savings from 457 plans that I
touched on uh Social Security savings
that the the town doesn't currently pay
social security for First Responders and
that came out of a Labor Management
discussion you know many years before uh
myself but um you know it's it's a
benefit that we don't get and that's
okay again things come out of the mou um
from Labor Management
discussions there's Positive Solutions
for pension reform pension reform has
happened very often over the last 10
years and will continue to do so because
of Labor Management relationships um
leadership development and management
perspective so I have a lot of quotes
here I'm going to save uh respect your
guys' time too much to go through them
but I hope you'll have access to this
slide but um the important note here is
that um the some of the quotes that I
have are are from city managers they're
from Town Council Members they're from
elected officials they're from every
walk and side of of the the aisle here
and it's because meeting confer is such
a successful process so um former mesa
city manager this was prop 476 that went
happened in Mesa last year that passed
with a 71% in the city of Mesa um so we
can understand that a city definitely
can support it in a city like Mesa with
71% um Tempe city manager former Tempe
city manager will
Manley uh Joan Krueger Gilbert vice
mayor uh was very much in support uh she
actually talks about Brian Jeff who is
the former president of local 2260 um
told us Gilbert Town Council that
meeting confer was up and running all
parties would find that it would work
out despite some early trepidation well
you're 100% right reports from the city
manager's office and from the employee
groups have all been very positive since
we implemented meet and confer in
Gilbert so there's history here in
Gilbert um this is Mayor Phil Gordon of
the City of Phoenix uh I felt like I had
to include him because my father
actually worked for mayor Phil Gord and
I was very small when I met him and uh
he was always something somebody who I
looked up to but um to to run as such a
large organization and to be utilizing
meet and confer um I I just respect that
highly
so um more uh quotes endorsed by the
Chandler city council when Chandler was
going through their um um Step to obtain
meet and
confer and then this is actually a quote
from the Arizona Republic from 2014 um
it's important to note that there were
much greater men than myself that were
in this position at one point one of
which is our current fire chief but the
quote says the ordinance enabled us to
take issues of wages benefits and
working conditions forward to policy
makers for consensus which was a better
way to do it everyone was in one room
working on issues and interest together
for solutions to problems we could all
live with now you're dealing with every
city employee and it's inefficient um
Chief Joe Bush uh Fire Chief Joe Bush at
the time echoed that belief that the
process built good relationships from
going through several years of me being
conferred allowed allowed us to continue
forward with a good relationship between
management and labor it's important to
note here that um if anou does happen
the labor management process is only
strengthened um there Chief soberg and
fire chief Dugen talked about uh you
know there's some pros and cons to the
meet and confer which there's pros and
cons of course to everything but um they
did discuss that there was a a more
formalized process which yes there is
the formalized process gives us
accountability on both sides of the
street but the labor management process
that happens on a weekly basis should
not and will not go away I don't believe
um I believe Chief Dugen and and I can
only speak for high for fire here but um
we' we've done an incredible job over
the last two years to building a really
strong Labor Management relationship and
Labor Management process in Gilbert and
that only continues to grow and theou is
only the opportunity to strengthen
that so what about the rest of Team
Gilbert um we are still team Gilbert I
it's really important here that all
employees um all employees do have the
right to organize if they want to um but
for us we're we're First Responders
we're not better than anybody but we are
different for inherent reasons we are
sworn officers of Public Safety um the
people that I work with risk their lives
every single day um every time we go out
on a call with lights and sirens is the
most dangerous thing we can do all the
time um so I think it's important to
note that this mou is the support for
those people who are risking our lives
for our community for this wonderful
town of Gilbert um Recruitment and
Retention of First Responders is vital
for the service that we provide and we
provide an extremely high level of
service Gilbert loves to boast about how
safe of a community this is and it is
because of the people that we work with
so the support to support those who risk
Our Lives is what we're asking for um
Federal Medi and conil conciliation
service they'll actually provide
training to us the town of Gilbert uh
through this process and they do it at
no charge so this is an opportunity for
leadership development for us to learn
about each other and to learn how do we
create the best mou process for us
together um the theou the meet and
confer is um process that will be built
together so even if you know we we vote
Yes it doesn't mean that it's yes and we
do it exactly the way we want or exactly
the way you want uh this is a process
that we get to build together and we get
to learn about it together um it's been
a long time since it's it we've had it
here so we're kind of all starting fresh
and we get to build it exactly the way
it fits for the town of
Gilbert so just closing up meet and
confer is built on communication
accountability and collaboration it's
centered around interest based
negotiations increased transparency and
understanding and it's not collective
bargaining it's good faith interest
based decision- making strikes and job
uh strikes and job slow down actions are
strictly forbidden employees are not
compelled in any way to form and join a
union that doesn't change and meet and
confer has a proven track record of
positive results and we have training
that can be offered um from our um
Federal mediation and conciliation
services so um that's all I have for you
guys I'm happy to answer any questions
um I believe Dan Brouse and Dakota are
here to represent Gilbert so I I can
either come back up to answer your
questions or I can answer any questions
that you have now thanks Shay I want to
say thank you for stepping up to serve
your fellow firefighters in Gilbert Fire
and Rescue and you look very nice in
your suit thank you I've ever seen you
in Street cloth before so I had to say
something any questions for Shay at this
time council member Koski hi Shan good
to see you me too um you mentioned a few
things of the positive benefits of
having the meet and confer and I wanted
to touch upon a couple of those one was
the dispute resolution olution and the
others was improve working conditions
regarding the dispute resolution you
mentioned that ultimately that's decided
by Town Council how do you
envision the
relationship um and coordination with
Town Council in theou
process um leading to that dispute
resolution thank you council member
Kowski um I believe that the role of the
of the town council is really to just
solidify everything at the end I I
believe that theou has the opportunity
for us to sit down with the town
manager's office and and other
Representatives that come out of this
process um but it gives us the
opportunity to come up with solutions
for various issues that we have or to
make us or the town better um but the
town council's role is to just solidify
that um if there is a mediation needed
or if there's one particular item that
is something that could be brought
forward to council to be discussed but
um the reality is is it removes the it
removes the drama it removes the um
ability to continually kind of big for
items um and it just allows us to have a
conversation and create a formalized
process so we can sit down and do that
together and own both of us own
responsibility for it what's the risk if
the Town Council doesn't approve
theou
and I guess for me one of my concern
concerns is I don't understand the job
of being a sworn personnel sure so how
does um how do you work through those
issues I believe that you know the that
is why we we exist as as a a labor group
is that we have the ability to create
relationships and explain why we either
need or or do the things that we do um I
don't believe that anybody ever needs to
understand exactly what we do or exactly
what we go through um for various
reasons um it's a very tough and
challenging job and so the the general
population knows that you know generally
they support police and fire and and
we're extremely appreciative of that um
so I I think the part that is unknown
there is still a lot of unknown for me
as well you know I've I've been in this
position I've only been with the town of
Gilbert for seven years and um there is
still a lot of unknown but the good part
about it is is that you guys are the
cting members and I'm the elected
official right now we get to create this
together so um some of those questions
will be answered either through the
federal mediation conciliation service
um or through our ability to create this
mou together thank you I just want to
make one more comment regarding um the
note about the improved working
conditions and I just wanted to make a
comment that regardless of where this
conversation goes that's a high priority
uh for for me and I'm sure a lot of
other council members so if there is
anything in that space uh please bring
that up I appreciate that young and
there there's nothing specific that um
it's really a principle of theou that
allows us to have better working
conditions um but we work for a great
organization I'm very proud of the town
of Gilbert and the people that I work
for thank
you vice mayor Shay thanks for being
here um I'm not sure if you're the one
that can answer this or somebody else in
management maybe but were there specific
issues that led to sunsetting the theou
in
2013 you know I'm I'm certainly not the
person to speak on that because I wasn't
here at the time I know a little bit of
the history but it's all word of mouth
so anything that I would say wouldn't be
factual um I don't know if Chief Dugen
might
know yes uh vice mayor uh Council mayor
um the biggest change that occurred uh
from the creation of the ordinance into
the decision to shorten the sunset was
there was a shift in the um the makeup
of the council following that and the
political shift towards not having theou
that's that's the simplest way to
describe it was there was a shift to the
makeup of the council and the direct the
direction of the new Council was to uh
Sunset it early instead of allowing it
just a sunset on its own so it wasn't a
process problem it was a different
problem we had a different makeup of
council from when it was created to when
it was stricken before the sunset class
thank
you council member Tuson Chief
tugen calling it
political that's it's a little too vague
for me what were their points in saying
that they didn't want it was it purely
just a political ideology thing on their
part or was there something specific
that they were they didn't like I don't
have specific recollection of the
reasons uh that were given uh other than
the opportunity came before the the
council members brought it forward to
strike it um but I don't recall the
specific examples or issues that they
had related to the to the process at the
time it's a bit too long ago for
me any other questions for Shay um
council member Toki mayor i' just like
to make a comment um I'd like to hear
the rest of the presentation but have
the opport oity to ask Shay to come up
okay absolutely I was going to I was
going to say that anyway I was I'll just
tell him come back up Shay okay thank
thank you all very much yeah and Dan and
Dakota are coming up now for
gpla you will probably have to lift mic
up just a little bit yes thank you that
one definitely won work that one's
better for Dan right yes uh good evening
Council and mayor uh thanks for um
having us being um willing to hear us
speak so uh my name is Dakota Rector uh
I'm uh the new uh president of gpla uh
I've been with the board of gpla which
uh has most of the members police
officers with Gilbert py uh I've been
with our board for um about two years
but just recently was voted in for
president um and so today uh in in my
place of speaking is uh Dan Brouse uh
he's been with gpla uh for about 15
years um and he was actually here uh
right when right before or right as it
was being written um through the whole
process and then also was here when it
went away um and also has been part of
the the labor side of things for the
entire time gpla things like that so uh
Dan is going to speak uh on uh his
experience and then uh we can answer any
questions that you have thank
you thank you uh mayor and Council d BR
I an employee of Gilbert about 17 and a
half years um we began meeting confer in
2008 I was on the uh Team for five years
um I I remember meeting every year uh I
don't remember off years I think um
after the first mou was was written each
year it was amended changed um little
issues came up that we were able to
reopen uh there was a reopener clause in
theou each year and it was solely dedic
dedicated to compensation because if you
remember 2008 to 2013 were some of our
worst Economic Times um so we did 5
years of um theou process all without
spending any money uh and we were able
to do it and we did it cordially and um
went through uh the process fairly uh
simple each year um outside of the first
year of actually creating the the living
document uh some of the positives that
Shay touched on uh I'll just go over
real quick
uh I don't want to um go over too much
but uh the collaboration of ideas there
were management issues and there were um
uh police department line level issues
that were brought to the table and we
worked through the IBB process
completely cordially and solved a lot of
our issues um the the open communication
there was open dialogue um management
always uh I heard earlier there was a
management representative which was uh
the assistant Town manager and there was
a commander at the time because we
didn't have assistant Chiefs back then
so we had a commander representative so
they were the direct link back to the
manager and the chief so while our
Chiefs are in a million meetings a month
this is one less meeting they had to
attend um and their uh design would
report back to them we had a great sense
of trust um there was nothing hidden in
the room there was nothing uh withheld
from us budget was open there was there
was no money and we we worked with that
um everything we came to a mutual
agreement on um there were there were
lots of things unique to the police
department which I'm going to get into
in a second that we lost um that we were
able to come to the consensus and we did
this agreement with our thumbs up as the
fmcs taught us how to do um one of the
things is the beneficial filtering of
ideas um Shay touched on we where if
every employee wanted to have their
concern
heard it would be a lot of work for
Council management Chiefs um this was a
filtering of taking the most important
the most popular ideas and bringing them
forward to be placed in
theou and again the decision-making
Authority uh lies with the uh Council uh
theou appeal process if if an employee
had an appeal of something in theou they
would go to their supervisor first and
then start to move up the ranks but if
it was an appeal
of something on
theou uh that couldn't be resolved that
then you started with the chief and then
it came back to the the manager and then
the council could make final decision-
making on it it's in the uou that I read
so some of the things we lost and I'll
touch on that real quick is we really
had no we have no formal agreement
process we do meet with uh uh I did I no
longer do Dakota does um with management
and the chief um they are great me
meetings but there's no formal agreement
process that's done where when we do
agree on something we put it in words
and we move forward
um so initially the um uh Chief Dugen
said that a lot of theou benefits were
incorporated into Personnel rules uh
they were and then since 2013 some
things have been slowly taken out of
personnel roles so some that would be
unique to the police department Court
pay shift differential standby pay um
other disciplinary rules because of
Peace officer Bill of Rights have slowly
been taken out of personnel rules
because it doesn't apply to all of the
employees in the city um so there was
sick incentive discipline Advisory Board
ability for alternative work schedules
all things that may not apply to the
rest of the town so that's that's the
only that really is lost in what theou
does is gives Police Department a way or
police officers a way to meet with their
manager and and um Town management to
talk about things that are specifically
related to the police department that
you can't put in Personnel rules because
it just doesn't apply to other parts of
the
town that is
all any questions for Dan and Dakota at
this time we can always ask them to come
back
up seeing none thanks thank you both for
stepping up again to support the G
Police
Department thank you Chiefs back up
we're
back mayor and Council appreciate the
both labor groups and the
representatives uh bringing up a lot of
uh positive things that have come uh
from the labor groups and we're going to
talk now about some on uh from our
perspective of some of the positive as
well but I do want to emphasize one
thing in noticing their list and our
list that those lists pretty much are
accomplishments over the last 10 years
and keep in mind we have not had an mou
or a mean confer process over the 10
years which to me is reflective of we
are open both uh Chiefs uh both
departments Management in conjunction
with Council on bringing forward ideas
um and whether it be benefits schedules
a lot of examples on the fire side of
tweaking and making things better based
on input from Council not to discredit
the positives that they mentioned I
fully support a lot of those a lot of
those comes from the political side as
well they have the ability of doing
things politically that we cannot do as
city employees Town employees uh so
getting back to our presentation um on
the police side uh some and we had a
very long list for both PD and fire but
we wanted to highlight some of the most
uh impactful over the last couple years
and as was mentioned and you'll hear
from Rob as well Chief Dugen as well
this warn top out pay that was proposed
by management last year or two years I
think it's been two years now um we um
our employee group came forward with the
request for increased fto pay part of
that was based on what we were seeing in
other jurisdictions but also the
difficulty in getting uh officers to
volunteer to train other employees and
we work together to establish that uh
increase it used to be 5% we increased
it to 10% while they're training uh new
recruits and not only did it apply to
our officers but also we apply to our
dispatchers and our detention as well
and then fto incentive leave about three
or four years ago uh we increased uh an
additional benefit uh for the those who
are trainers giving them a discretionary
leave day um every six months uh so two
leave days each year if they are uh
trainers they get additional leave that
they can take and then also we increased
our lateral start pay again in
consultation with our labor groups
looking at what other agencies are
bringing their uh laterals on um and
their probation time when we used to
hire a lateral we'd bring them in at the
zero step which is the lowest paid level
and then once they were done with
training we would move them up to their
actual if they had seven years of
experience they would move up to that
level so looking and working with the
labor groups we were able to look at
that process and and improve it to which
helped us with recruiting laterals so
that they're not losing pay if you're a
topped out officer at another
jurisdiction and you want to come here
you can start day one at a topped out at
our topped out pay level and um uh start
that process and and adjusting the the
probation period as well so that it was
streamlined and consistent I'll turn it
over to uh Chief Dugen to talk about
some of the advantages and
accomplishments from fire
mayor council thank you again and also
just want to acknowledge uh Chief soberg
did um the feedback and perspective
provided uh by the labor leaders uh here
tonight I appreciate your approach
appreciate your perspectives on on the
discussion and how you conduct yourself
so thank you for that and having chance
to work with Shay directly for two years
uh is amazing human being has an
incredible heart and passion for what he
does um and just want to reaffirm I will
speak for myself and Chief soberg and
and Patrick that we are fully committed
uh to continuing to advance their Labor
Management relationship here in the town
of Gilbert and improving our ability to
protect and serve our members our
residents and our businesses throughout
the city so just want to continue to to
make sure that we understand that uh
talking a little bit about
accomplishments we've already mentioned
the the sworn top help I won't go back
into that uh one area we're very proud
of uh is really class leading efforts to
expand our cancer screening uh through
many uh budget packages supported by
Council uh We've added second set of
turnouts over the preventative side of
things enhancement of our our full body
MRIs and blood testing not only for our
current members but for retirees that's
something we're very proud of uh for
adding those benefits to to the teams
and our commitment to preventing and
uncovering Cancers early so we can save
the lives of our members we talked about
the increase of the vacation Max I won't
go into that again uh the last one I
will mention uh which was a significant
achievement uh was the switch on July
22nd for the fire department to switch
from our previous schedule to the 4896
schedule
uh this one's worth noting uh because
the two previous uh Fire Chiefs uh no
disrespect to the decisions made but at
that point did not support the decision
to switch to the
4896 um coming into my position I knew
that this was going to be probably the
the the Labor Management Arena probably
had the greatest impact um to my legacy
as fire chief knowing this decision was
coming back uh and so we took time to
put together a labor management team
about 17 members with representative
across the whole organization including
management to research this topic yet
again uh because we knew how impactful
it was uh to our employees and really
what it came down to kind of for tenants
on this is the cost of living in
gilbertt uh has risen so much that it's
difficult for our least tenured members
to afford housing uh here in Gilbert and
those that choose to live farther
unfortunately fuel costs are making that
also difficult as well so if you're
living farther from Gilbert because you
have to to you have fuel costs are
starting to increase as well and don't
seem to be going down we saw a reduction
in applicants for the fire department
over the last few years so we were
seeking opportunities to cast a wider
net to increase those numbers I'm happy
to say we have increased over 640 our
last recruitment almost double from the
last
one and last and probably most important
we wanted to research the impact on work
life balance for our members um and how
their lives could be positively impacted
by the schedule uh and after the crew
after the team did the work produced a
report for the town manager's office
that made it clear now was the time to
convert to the schedule and it was again
this was done by the work of the Labor
Management Committee in our existing
process has put together an incredible
report that told the story of the impact
the positive impact this was going to
have on our employees and then happy to
report uh support from the town
manager's office we were able to
implement that and to be able to go back
to the stations and talk to the
firefighters about how is it different
how is this impacting you to hear their
stories already about the uh the impact
the schedule is having to really improve
their lives um and again make them more
fulfilling in work so I bring that up as
just some of the major accomplishments
uh that we've done so far uh through
that process and I believe with this we
are going to transition
presentation as there's any other
questions Tre soberg and I we'll turn
over to
Nathan mayor Peterson members of council
thank you for the opportunity to come up
I'm I'm going to just share uh some
additional insights from a town um sort
of comp and benefits perspective and um
one of the things you'll see here we we
we've got some really great townwide
accomplishments we've been able to um
deploy in the last several years um that
um had have had especially a tremendous
impact in a positive way on our Public
Safety spaces our P parental leave
program if you're not familiar we have
uh an opportunity for a new parent
whether it be a father or a mother um
through birth adoption or Foster to take
four weeks paid by the town um of of
leave um and this is an item that is
actually used on a higher basis um per
employee within our Public Safety spaces
than anywhere else in the town so that's
something we're really proud of um and
is being utilized really well we've got
a great babies at work program that has
received um Statewide and national press
we have uh we expanded our uh program
our injury leave program to include what
we call catastrophic injury leave this
is something that has been utilized
within our Police Department um and then
our expansion of our military leave
program we far exceed the federal
requirement for um supplementing active
military when they are um called out for
Duty and called up um and this is
another item that on a per employee
basis our Public Safety spaces have more
active military than anywhere else in
the
town the other piece that I think is
important is just kind of a refresh for
all of you in the compensation and
benefits um area uh first off off just
as a this is this is kind of a summary
my own words this isn't how it's stated
exactly in the Personnel policies that's
just because it's much more word heavy
there um but as a reminder you know our
compensation philosophy is is set up in
such a way to ensure that we have a fair
and Equitable program across
classifications in line with the market
rate um and and as a reminder market
rate is defined as the midpoint of the
market and that is um a philosophy that
is voted on and approved by all of you
um and and it's obvious VI ly at your
purview if you would like to see changes
to that um compensation
philosophy the other thing that is
important um along those lines is that
there's obviously there's other um sort
of approaches being utilized outside of
Gilbert with with some of our
neighboring cities and towns and I
wanted to address some of those just to
give you some perspective um we've seen
Chandler and Tempe are both now in a
fight to be the third among Benchmark
cities um that's difficult to both be
third um and that's a that's an Ever
moving Target because as a city
benchmarks those numbers change we've
done some analysis on that and if we
wanted to be tied for third with these
other two cities um that that would run
about $3.3 million um of immediate cost
impacts just for Public Safety and
approximately 12.4 across the
organization um obviously keep in mind
those are on those are now numbers those
numbers grow um as the market grows and
increases pay rates and so those numbers
would grow year over year over every
year um next we you know we've learned
that Queen Creek is aiming to be the
60th percentile so where we're midpoint
or 50th percentile Queen Creek has been
um aiming for about 60th percentile as
they as they're in growth mode and
they're needing to recruit um in in
pretty large numbers for their City size
they uh that we ran the numbers again
that would run about $2 and A5 million
dollar of cost just for the for the
foreseeable future for sworn and about
$6.2 million townwide if we were to um
to mirror that program
the next uh I'll talk a little bit
because we all know we've we've heard
about it it's been raised by um it's
it's it's been brought up by labor it's
been brought up obviously in Council
Retreats and in discussions that we've
had um we know that Mesa announced a
post-retirement Health Plan um at the
regular employee Premium cost as a
reminder as you've seen these numbers
before we hired out an Actuarial study
on that so that was done by a licensed
and certified um Actuarial group through
um our plan administrator and they came
back that um direct premium payments uh
would would go to about $365,000 in year
one but up to about $6 million annually
over a 20-year cycle um as an if we were
to to mimic Mesa program and then the
opab liability which is just a reminder
is um
the post employment benefit right just
the the the kind of insurance or or
Health Care impact um to our plan uh
would would start off around a million
dollars um in increased cost but would
exceed $250 million over 20 years so
that is quite um an extensive program
that M has been able to roll out now I
want to say as we've pointed out before
that's that's not to say there are no
options we continue to explore
opportunities and options to provide um
and and help our Workforce mitigate the
cost and the rise in cost of healthcare
not only as employees um but post
employment um we recognize that our
Public Safety professionals are
especially challenged in this because
they retire uh often times younger
because they've given 20 25 30 years and
they're you know they have an
opportunity to retire well before they
may be eligible for uh you know Medicaid
programs things of that nature and and
so we continue to explore opportunities
to um to support these needs uh across
our
Workforce the other thing I wanted to
just point out
um in a way we benefit today from other
cities mou programs because when we
Benchmark we are pay changes based on
Theus that exist out there and are being
you know the rates that are changing so
even the the examples I showed you
earlier with um tempy and Chandler and
Queen Creek those are immediate or those
are directly affecting our pay rates
because we are moving rates up um to try
to stay on par with the market rate and
so just as a reminder there um to kind
of how the math on the process
works the last thing I wanted to just
kind of touch on is um we recognize I
recognize and I think organizationally
we recognize the amazing work that our
Public Safety uh Personnel do every day
I think Shay said it really well that
these are First Responders these are
folks that they they put their lives on
the line daily and we work very hard to
take good care um and and and support
our our Public Safety um as a result of
that hard work and that that risk that
they put out there um we've expanded as
as you all know um and offered T
tremendous Wellness Resources um Mental
Health Resources counseling resources
expanded our um our access to EAP which
is uh free health care sources or Mental
Health Resources all of those things are
in an effort to be more mindful of the
ever growing needs um of the workforce
but I do want to say you know our sworn
personnel represents about a third of
our Workforce right so we have to be
mindful of the other two two-thirds now
Shay mentioned that um the rest of the
workforce certainly um has the option to
be supported or um or represented by a
labor Association um you know I've
worked in organizations where we've had
broad-based professional labor
associations those become a little more
difficult because the needs of of
various types of professionals across
various um classifications and
industries and and skill sets those
needs differ and so while uh the labor
Association within a sworn space is
working with um a particular group of
individuals we we want to be mindful of
how do we make sure that the voices of
our entire Workforce are being heard and
taken into
consideration the the last thing um you
know again I know we've talked about
this in other in other context um that
I've had an opportunity to speak with
with all of you Gilbert we we have a we
make a concerted effort to try to be
mindful of our entire Workforce you know
we are um as I think Shay even
referenced we are one team we are one
team Gilbert and there are um
individuals across this organization
that put um everything they have into
this work every day I'll give you a
couple examples the role of a solid
waste operator is one of the most
dangerous jobs in the country it is the
only job in the town of Gilbert that
shows up on the most dangerous jobs top
10 list um the role of uh app developers
within our it department and CDL drivers
are some of the hardest jobs to recruit
right now um and so being mindful of
finding creative ways to recruit and to
retain these tough positions is not
something that is exclusive um or an
exception to Public Safety only it is
something we have to be mindful of and
relentlessly committed to every day
across this
organization and then the other thing
there was some there was a reference to
this earlier I just we we did a little
bit of quick analysis um considerations
around the meet and confer process this
is based on the historical data uh when
this was done in years past we were able
to put together kind of the current
Financial impact of just the meetings um
those run about
$30,000 a year just the cost to to hold
the meetings now that doesn't include
research work time outside of those
meetings which is extensive you know can
take two to three times the amount of
time that is spent in the actual
meetings um and then again this is only
based on the two Public Safety
associations in the meet and confer
process that exist um and then as was
mentioned there are re there are
compliment resources to fac facilitation
sometimes you're under the um you're
you're based on the calendar that might
be very limited as far as access to
those resources and so um based on our
calendar if if there were a meet and
confer process in place we may have to
hire out uh legal help and or
facilitation to ensure that we can stick
to the calendar and the and the
guidelines that have been set up should
there be an ordinance so I think with
that does somebody want to oh go ahead
Chris mayor council this is the final
slide um and I know we're running out of
time here yes just wanted to remind
Council that you know anything that you
do where you're creating an ordinance or
you're approving a contract we're all
subject always to state law and to
constraints of the US and Arizona
Constitution um this court case up here
is a recent court case where um aou
between the City of Phoenix and a group
of 1200 skilled laborers was challenged
and while the city and the labor
Association won at the court of appeals
with the tri cour court of appeals the
Arizona Supreme Court overturned that
and found that the way thatou was set up
was a violation of gift Clause so there
have been a number of cases over the
last 20 years of challenges to certain
aspects of mou so that's something to
keep in mind um those have not those
have done with the consideration the way
uh leave is given it's also dealt with
challenges to open meeting laws as well
as public records the negotiations so
something to keep in mind that the there
are people that out there watching the
way these mlus are set up the ordinances
are in place and we have to be very
careful if that's something Council
wants to consider that we uh craft
everything in a way that will not
violate the gift clause or any other law
um it's also difficult because at times
it seems like it's a moving goal poost
um I know with the city of Phoenix in
this case when they negotiated theou and
the council approved it it was the law
at the time our current Arizona Supreme
Court takes a different view than the
prior Supreme Courts did so that's
always something to be careful even if
something is vetted and 100% correct
doesn't mean it can't be challenged and
you won't find a court that will
overturn it even though it's been
precedent for a long
time thank you Nathan and Chris we will
move to some questions council member
torguson I'm curious You' mentioned it
cost $30,000 for meet to meet and do
that what is the current cost of the way
the meetings are set up
now the meetings between labor and
manager's
office the ones they've described is
what's going on now as opposed to M us
that's a good question I I wasn't asked
to Crunch those numbers but I'd say with
and Patrick maybe you know who's in
those meetings typically not asking you
to do the math of course
but yeah um I meet once a quarter with
both associations they last about an
hour and a half or so um we could crunch
those numbers for you um just hadn't
done it as of of this time right but
it's there is there is some there's a
difference in cost but it's not just an
additional 30,000 it's offset somewhere
with other meetings correct I I believe
that would be correct I do think the
frequency of meetings under theou is
much more significant um and and brings
a lot more people into those meetings
into those conversations in our current
model uh but but yes I mean obviously
there would be some cost associated with
the the model we have today thank
you any other questions comments council
member Kowski hi Ethan my comment is
regarding um our current pay for
performance policies and how you would
foresee that a uh being affected by anou
in terms of um how are sworn personnel
treated now with the payer performance
and how is that addressed in anou
situation uh
mayor members of council council member
cpri that that's a that's a good
question that's hard for me to answer
because I'm not sure what the ask or the
expectation might be um in the meet and
confer process um regarding compensation
um again I I do know that was why I
presented some of the data with
neighboring cities um I do know that
obviously um I'm sure the labor
Association as well as we as an
organization are aware of the fact that
we are surrounded by cities that have a
slightly different approach um to their
um their benchmarking or their comp
philosophy um so I would imagine that
there would be some request made to sort
of match or keep us in line with those
cities and as I pointed out there's
there's really just cost associated with
that it's it's in my opinion it's not so
much a um a
decision um about coming to a consensus
as making determination if where the
funding would come from the funding
source and if that is feasible for the
town of Gilbert is there any separate
like Merit based pay or anything above
and beyond base compensation that's not
like
overtime um council member Kowski the
the Merit component is built in so in a
non-sworn um scenario we have a merit
Matrix which we uh roll out each year
and that is um based on the annual
performance rating of the employee um
the the I guess I would say the benefit
to the the compensation model that
exists within our sworn e