Study Session - 5/20/2025 5:30:00 PM

I think we'll go ahead and call to order
our study session. We'll start off with
a roll call.
Mayor Scott Anderson here. Vice Mayor
Bobby Buckley here. Vice Mayor Chuck
Boniovani. Vice Mayor. What' you say?
I'm so sorry. Council member here.
Council member Kenny Buckland here.
Council member Yan Kapowski here,
council member Monte Lions here, and
council member Jim Torus here. A quorum
is present. Thank you. Tonight we have
one item on the agenda, presentation and
discussion on traffic safety by the
traffic engineer and the Gilbert Police
Department. Susanna, are you starting
this?
All right.
There. There we go. Thank you. Um, good
evening, mayor and council members. Um,
tonight we're going to bring you an
update on traffic safety operations and
enforcement for the town. I know you
have been receiving quite a bit of
requests for information on this. So,
tonight we are moving forward with with
uh providing you um that an
update maybe.
So tonight we're going to give you our
why for traffic and we're also going to
talk about four E of traffic safety. And
the E really mean evaluation, education,
enforcement, and engineering. Um and
then we'll go through some continuing
activities that we're doing as we go
through those items as well.
So collectively the why for for traffic
or um from traffic MPD because tonight's
presentation will be um presented by
both both the traffic and the PD group.
Um keeping the community safe and
efficiently moving through our community
is one of our wise. Parents need to get
kids safely and efficiently to and from
school. Employees and business owners
need to get safely safely and
efficiently to and from work. Patients
and doctors need to get safely and
efficiently to and from medical centers.
We understand safe and efficient
roadways are vital to Gilbert's
continued success.
So, as safety um as a is a top priority
for PD and the Gilbert Traffic
Engineering Group, on a daily basis, our
collective teams are dedicated to
keeping our roadways safe for education
um through education, enforcement,
evaluation, and engineering. So, tonight
we will talk about those four E um and
present information that I think will be
very valuable for you in understanding
that. So from an evaluation perspective,
um, and this is really coming from our
engineering side, we are continually
monitoring and assessing the
effectiveness of traffic safety measures
and improvements to refine safety
strategies and policies. That really
starts from us getting and gathering
crash and fatalities um, along our
roadway systems. So I know one question
is is how are we doing here in in
Gilbert compared to others? So we've
prepared a few slides here that go
through that information. So generally
across the board um you will see the
city of Phoenix has the most um on an
annual basis um for total crashes in
2023. Um obviously because of their
size, Tucson would be the second largest
there. Uh Mesa, well actually Mesa is is
a little bit higher than that. But
overall, when you look at crashes per
thousand residents, we really are in the
bottom e echelon of those cities um in
the Maricopa region, especially the east
valley and the number of crashes we have
per thousand residents. Um and our
fatality crash percentage um is lower
than what what is in Phoenix and Mesa.
Um however, and Tucson. However, as we
as we move into the Gilbert, Chandler
and Scottsdale area, we are, you know,
close to or a little bit higher in that
in that
area from MAG region crash comparison.
And this data is really provided from
MAG and Gilbert's PD. Um 2024 data is at
this time unofficial by MAG. So, we are
just providing you information as we we
receive it. But on this is the total of
crashes that you will see. The pink line
in there is the MAG region per 100,000
residents and the orange um bar is the
um Gilbert per 100. So the takeaways
from this chart really is crash rates in
the region in and in Gilbert have
remained the same since 2021. They
really haven't risen, but they also
haven't necessarily lowered a lot since
2021. Crashes in Gilbert are about 42%
lower than the region um in this in this
um area. From a fatality perspective,
what we see here again at that 100,000
um per residents, MAG is seeing from 21,
14, then 22, 16, 15, and 13 to 24 pretty
stable again across the the line. Ours
is almost very similar to that too. um
not raising pretty much in that same
same area per 100,000 residents. Um our
fatality rate is generally 60% lower
than what's in the rest of the
region. Intersection crash comparison
again is really kind of the area where
crashes occur on the on the on a
majority of the time frame. We're at a
pro approximately 80% of our crashes are
recorded at or adjacent to intersections
since 2021. So you will see that that is
uh the same for us as it is in other
areas that our crashes do occur at
intersections and that's where we spend
a lot of effort and time looking
at. So the fatality rate um in this in
this instance um again we are
approximately 60% of our our fatalities
have also occurred at or adjacent to
intersections and the majority of
fatalities related to speed and or
failure to yield the rideway. and that
um information before was the same. Uh
so, excuse me, I'll get back
there. Um so, again, for 100,000 um
residents, we in 21 started with four
um I did this wrong, sorry. 2021 8 11 5
and 11 um is the total that we had at
intersections of our total amount of of
fatalities we had in the town. So again,
but the I guess the real note here is
the majority of fatalities are related
to speed and failure to yield at those
intersections. So I'm going to turn this
over now to PD. They are the ones that
record the crashes and the fatalities
when they occur. So I'm going to turn
that over to Commander Frost. um and
have him continue from here.
Thank you.
Good afternoon, uh Mayor and Council. My
name is Rob First. I'm a commander with
the Gilbert Police Department for those
of you who don't know me. So, when we're
taking a look at the data and just
looking at 2024,
um there's a lot of contributing factors
that cause the crashes here in Gilbert.
Um what we see though is the top
contributing factors as you can see here
are speed too fast for conditions
failing to yield the rightaway uh
drivers making unsafe lane changes and a
small percentage of that is uh
disregarded traffic signals. So in 2024
we saw this is the top reason for
crashes occurring on our roadways.
When you look at that last section, that
traffic signal disregarded um you know,
you look at a crash comparison with
other areas um in the MAG region. What
we see is obviously one crash for a
disregarded traffic signal is too many.
Um we strive to enforce and bring those
down, but by comparison to the MAG
region, disregarding a traffic signal
has been trending slightly down as a
main factor. Um we saw a decrease of
uh 88 in 2021 to 70 in 2024. So we are
trending down when you're looking at
that traffic signal
disregarded. Taking a look at our
motorcycle crash comparison in the MAG
region. Um since
2019, there has been a 33% increase in
motorcycles being registered throughout
Arizona.
Correlating to that number, Gilbert has
seen about a 40% increase in motorcycle
crashes since
2021. Motorcycle crashes in Gilbert are
about 43% lower than the MAG region. And
when we look at our motorcycle crashes,
we're seeing that the majority of
Gilbert motorcycle crashes involve speed
and vehicles who are failing to yield
the right away when turning left is the
major contributing factors on our
roadways.
Wanted to also take a look at some
bicycle statistics here between 2021 and
2024. Overall, since 2021, uh we've
generally seen a decline in our motor
vehicle as accidents versus bicycles on
our roadways. So, that's good. We had a
little uptick there in 2023. Definitely
brought it back down to 39 in
2024. Um the consistent hot spots for
our bicycle crashes are are probably
ones you guys expect you're going to
see. Um there Gilbert Road between
Elliot and Guadalupe. So the heritage
district is a is a hot spot for our
bicycle crashes. We're also looking at
that Santan Mall district. Um you get
Val Vista Drive between POS and
Williamsfield and uh Williamsfield
between Val Vista and Santan Village
Parkway. Two biggest hotspots we've seen
consistently during all four of these
years for our crashes involving bicycles
versus
uh motor vehicles.
So Susan talked about our four E of
traffic safety. Um, one of ours is
education. We want to educate our
public. So Gilbert PD, we strive to hold
public awareness campaigns and education
programs to inform those who use our
roadways about safe driving, pedestrian
safety, and traffic
laws. One of the ways we do this is we
try to engage our citizens. Um, there
are variety of ways Gilbert PD engages
with the community. Routinely we use
social media for targeted campaigns
directed at roadway safety. Our citizens
our citizens can also reach directly out
to us in a variety of ways um through
the uh Gilbert 311 app, the tip 411 and
the traffic hotline as well as emailing
us
directly. Enforcement is obviously one
of the ways that we also uh strive to
ensure compliance by enforcing traffic
safety laws to deter dangerous behavior.
One of the main uh units that uh targets
our traffic violators is the Gilbert
traffic unit. They're dedicated to
reducing serious and fatal collisions
within our
town. It consists right now of nine day
traffic officers and one sergeant. This
includes some traffic reconstructive
detectives uh that investigate serious
crashes involving serious injury or
fatalities. We also have three nighttime
traffic officers and one sergeant who
focus on impaired driving. We also have
three civilian patrol technicians who
assist by handling more minor crashes to
clear up our
roadways. So, some of the ways we use
education and enforcement strategies to
reduce collisions are through some
grant-f funded initiatives for targeted
programs. Some of these programs that we
routinely use are school zone
enforcement to ensure safety of students
and staff, bike and pedestrian safety,
which focuses on high foot traffic areas
to ensure crosswalk safety and that that
drivers are not distracted and obeying
laws for pedestrians in crosswalks. We
routinely do these in the heritage
district
specifically. We also uh focus on
impaired driver detection. We utilize
DUI task forces, holiday enforcement. We
also utilize education with our
citizens. We go out to know your limits.
We go to bars downtown into other big
events. We contact citizens who have
been consuming alcohol. Uh we have a PBT
with us before they drive. We let them
blow into the PBT so they can actually
get a gauge of where they are. Some of
them are often surprised that they're
intoxicated when they don't believe that
they've drank enough to even be
intoxicated. So we do use that as a
education piece of what we do. We also
use seat belt compliance and currently
if you've seen our social media here
recently we're right in the midst of our
click it and ticket. So we're focusing
on drivers who are not utilizing their
seat belts which obviously is a major
factor when um individuals are seriously
hurt in
crashes. Effective enforcement
strategies are also the cornerstone of
our approach. Uh we use firsthand
knowledge to deploy to areas we know
have speeding DUIs or distract dist
distracted driving. Our traffic unit is
extremely good at this. This is what
they do on a daily basis. We also
effectively use data to identify the um
the most dangerous intersections within
our town and we focus heavy enforcement
in those areas. Our traffic units
specifically on the daytime traffic,
they use a Wolfpack on a monthly basis.
They use data-driven analysis to
identify the most dangerous areas in
high collision areas within our town and
the unit targets those over several
days. Um, all of these operations look
to deter and educate unsafe drivers
through high visibility and consistent
enforcement. Last year, the traffic unit
alone issued over 9,500 citations and
26,500 warnings to those on our
roadways.
When I talked about the data-driven
analysis, one of the things we did last
year, um, if some of you remember, we
had a series of serious and fatal
collisions on Val Vista, some of them
involving motorcycles versus vehicles.
We got together as a as a unit with our
uh, intelligence uh, our crime analysts
to start looking at seeing where these
crashes were occurring and we saw that
Val Vista was a major problem for us.
So, we utilized a focused patrol between
patrol officers in the traffic unit uh
for about four weeks through August 11th
and September 7th,
2024. The patrol officers and the
traffic units combined focused heavily
on Val Vista Road from baseline to rigs.
During that time, we made a total of 115
traffic stops, issued 713 citations. The
most frequent frequent citations that we
issued were for speed not reasonable and
prudent. 373 of those using a mobile
device while driving or distracted
driving, 109. We had uh 12 criminal
speed violations, 20 mph or over. We had
12 failing to stop at a red red signal
and nine for failing to obey a traffic
control device. So, this is just one of
the ways that we use that targeted
enforcement and data to drive what we're
going to do to try to make the roadway
safer.
And then if you just look at our
citations that we've issued as a
department over the last several years,
um you see our traffic related citations
overall. When you look at civil and
criminal citations have increased from
2021 to 2024. Um our criminal traffic
related citations have also increased. I
apologize. 2021 we could not pull the
data because we switched uh reporting
systems. So we're not able to dig that
data out. It's a little harder. The only
thing we've seen a reduction in uh for
us is the speeding tickets have gone
down slightly. Uh everything else has
pretty much stayed the same or increased
as we focus on our enforcement to make
the roadway
safer. I'll turn it back over to
Suzanne. Thank you guys for your time.
Sorry, my
notes. All right. So the last E that
we're going to talk about tonight is
engineering. So we've spent some time
now looking at data. Um we've been
looking through the enforcement and the
education. Um there are improvements too
that we can do to safety on our road
roadways that really do apply to
engineering and designing safer roadways
and intersections transfer is is a thing
that our traffic group does on a regular
basis.
So several things that our um
engineering group does is they do
perform safety audits, crash analysis
and speed analysis. They look at signing
and striping in that to see if there are
some improvements that can happen there.
We do a signal retiming as well and and
signal preeemption. Left and right turn
lanes are some additions that we do as
well to support and help with the safety
and intersections. Positive turn lane
offsets um are also identified quite
frequently. signalization at our trail
crossings and other improvements at our
trail crossings to make them safe for
our pedestrians and bicyclists going
across roadways. Um we also look at some
traffic calming um strategies. And as of
late, we've been adding some green bike
lane paint on on the pavement as well to
identify proper um locations of of of
bike lanes.
So from a signal coordination
perspective, what we see is that that um
we have been since about 2019 working
with um MAG to identify areas where we
can coordinate our signals. Um they are
pretty much all have been looked at at
one time or another since 2019 and
continue to basically be looked at on a
regular basis to make sure that we're
continuing to provide the best
opportunity for our traveling public to
pass pass through.
Um in addition to that um signal
clearance intervals we have looked at u
what is the best way to add a red light
and a and a yellow light in our
intersections and um in most agencies um
from a national standard will basically
go an all- ride time frame. Um in this
case in 2022 we standardize that
clearance interval townwide. Um it has
taken us a couple years to s to set all
of the signals within our town to do
that, but they have all been rettimed
now to meet that national standard and
the one that we basically put into
consideration from um East Valley
Cities. So some ongoing activities that
we are doing beyond um the um the the
just looking at normal engineering to
increase uh the ability for our our
traveling public to to pass through our
roadways. is we continue to look at
technology. So we have about four or
five different programs software type
packages that we have looked into to
help improve some of our services in
here. Most of these are in pilot
projects right now. They aren't aren't
actually refined absolute systems at
this point in time but we are working
forward um with looking at each of those
to say how can they help us. Um the one
that it seems to be moving most quickly
through the process and that is through
um some involvement with MAG is the
ATSBM software which is helping us with
some traffic analytics. Um we also have
put some um way sync in to effect on
Higgley. So we are looking at those and
seeing how they can help us at this
point in time. Our traffic team also is
very very active at the MAG level where
they take safety as as precious as we do
in in making sure that we are doing what
we can to keep our traveling public
safe. Um so they are serving very
heavily on the Aztec committee, the MAG
it suit um committee and the mag safety
committee. In fact, tonight you're going
to see we have some preemptive cameras
that we are continuing to work on. we
received some grants and I will be
looking to um add some additional funds
to that to to make those
improvements. So, at this point in time,
that's about where we're at from an
update of where our tra traffic safety
operations enforcement and education is
going here for the community. Thank you.
Thank you. Council comments, questions?
Council member Bonjivani. Thanks. Thank
you, Mayor.
Um, we have a decrease in speeding
tickets. Is that to assume we have a
decrease in
speeding? No, I think you have some
factors. Um, we have obviously uh our
staffing over the last year or two.
We've had a lot of retirements, things
like that. We are building our staffing
back up. We have also instituted some uh
initiatives to get our officers more
focused on proactive contacts and
community engagement. So, uh, we've been
working as an agency to get the officers
focused back on, uh, traffic, uh,
contacts of suspicious persons and just
good community engagement contacts with
our citizens and being more visible. So,
I think as an agency, we're driving back
up towards, uh, where we want to go. I'm
I'm not um I'm not asking for a police
state, but I
remember Gilbert was known, do not speed
in Gilbert. Do not run a red light in
Gilbert or you're going to get a ticket.
Yeah. Everyone in this whole valley knew
that, right?
Um, what do you guys need from us as a
council to as far as staffing goes to
help with this? Because I'm seeing, you
know, and I I we don't have the 25 data,
I'm sure, but I I I'm seeing fatalities.
I'm seeing 100% increase in fatalities
um in motorcycles. That's a separate
issue I want to talk about. But what do
you guys need from
us to make the street
safer from drivers? Because Gilbert
drives like they post on
Facebook. Competitive, aggressive, and
like selfies. It's all about them. And I
I I know this. I'm a little angry about
this. Be very honest with you. I I I
know this because I I ride my bike 60 to
70 miles a week in South Gilbert and I
have two close calls a week and the odds
are not in my favor and I'm seeing
people on phones speeding, not knowing
the laws, not knowing that it's not okay
to make a right-hand turn in front of a
bike, you know, uh when they hit the
green. What do you what do you need from
us to change behavior?
Uh, mayor and council member Bon
Giovani, uh, that is a very complex
question, but I will do my best to
answer that. Obviously, staffing does
have an impact on that. Uh keep in mind
you mentioned the reputation of Gilbert
and and you were correct and and uh our
population has doubled tripled
quadrupled over you know 20 plus years
from 60,000 and 95 to
292,000 and uh what the patterns you're
seeing um I drove to Glendel today for a
conference out on the west side and I'm
seeing the same behavior out there. So I
think it is an Arizona issue. Um, we
have wide roadways in the majority of
our communities. Um, the population
increase obviously is impacting as well.
We can't enforce our way out of the
problem. It has to be a combination of
the four E that we talked about tonight
between education, engineering, and uh
enforcement. And that engineering is a
key uh factor. If you recall, I believe
we discussed Bvest and Warner was on the
list about two years ago as a high high
uh intersection for accidents. We've
engineered that and I don't have the
data in front of me, but that had an
impact. So, that's where engineering
those slight modifications can allow for
more visibility in intersections and
reduce that. Um, getting back to your
question, what can you provide us to
help enforce that? Obviously, staffing
is a factor. Um, but we have a lot of
issues that we need to continue. It's
not just traffic. We get uh complaints
all the time about uh backups at school,
people speeding, people wanting speed
bumps in their neighborhoods. And that's
again where we partner with traffic to
evaluate what's uh reasonable. They'll
do traffic studies to determine whether
it's um a good uh fit between signage
and speed bumps. That's not always the
best solution. Um but the more police
officers we have on the streets
obviously the more visibility and the
more enforcement we would be able to do
and education obviously is a key
component of that and so it's a balance
between all the needs of the uh the city
the town and um we balance that as well
as our uh requests for positions. I'll
also note that and I don't remember the
exact slide but our speeding citations
were down but if you recall the overall
citations were up for the year. um just
in that category they went down. So we
did have an increase in total traffic
citations but it was a decrease in our
um in our speeding violations. Staffing
does have an impact on that. Currently
uh about half of our unit is uh vacant
uh due to retirements and and other
needs of the department. And so as
commander first mentioned we'll continue
to work on getting that back up as we
balance the needs of the department. Um
thanks chief question.
Um sometimes in order to change and you
know this most anyone in order to change
behavior there has to be
consequences 30 9500 citations and
almost 27,000
warnings. What makes a warning compared
to running a ticket? Mayor and council
member Bon Giovani. It it's officer's
discretion. It depends on the
circumstances and it's uh and it may be
that an area that it's they sometimes
see frequent flyers and those people get
tickets um because they've already had
the education component. A lot is how
they react. Um sometimes we'll pull them
over for violation and it may be
anything and some of those uh warnings
or uh administrative violations if you
will, registration, insurance uh and a
lot of the fix it tickets if you will,
windshields, lights, stuff like that.
So, not all warnings are um moving
violations. They may be more
administrative as well, but it's up to
each officer's discretion. We ask them
to use that discretion. Not everyone
needs a ticket, but it's hard for us to
tell what's that prior history. We can
see when we run their uh their uh
license history to see if they have
citations in the past. Um, but a lot of
it's based on the perceptions of the
officers, how they're interacting and
and uh sometimes and it also sometimes
depends on who pulls you over. Uh, our
motors are notorious that you don't get
warnings from motors and um, our patrol
officers are making that and our traffic
officers as well. They're making the uh,
best decision based on the circumstance
they have before them of whether to give
a ticket or not. When did the motorcycle
law change where they can split lanes? I
believe it's been two years roughly. And
is is there a coincidence that deaths
have increased in those two years? So my
rough estimate um based on what I have
seen and from the crash data we and from
my uh observations personally is we have
not had any accidents while people are
lane splitting. Right. If they follow
the law, you can only lane split on a
two lane or larger roadway. Traffic has
to be stopped. I believe 45 miles per
hour or less on on the roadway and they
can only do it while they're stopped.
The difference being is not that that's
when the accidents are happening. The
difference is from before the
motorcycles are now getting to the front
of the line, so to speak. And so when
they get the green, there's no one in
front of them. Where in the past they'd
be behind two or three cars, they'd have
to wait for the flow of traffic to get
going and they would have to go with the
flow of the traffic that's in front of
them. By putting them up in the front of
the line, you're putting the
responsibility on that driver like any
other driver, but it's their
responsibility to drive the speed limit.
And we're seeing a lot of accidents
where they're taking off at a high level
of speed, and that's where someone's
making a left or a right turn out of or
into a parking lot. When they look,
there's no one there. But if someone's
going 70 miles per hour or more, that
quick look to the left or right, you're
not going to see them. A second later,
they're there. Have you seen um or heard
from other cities and towns about that
issue since the traffic since the
motorcycle law changed?
The consensus that I've heard and seen
is basically what I've told you. I
haven't heard of many accidents when
there people are legally lane splitting
that that's where accidents are
happening. That's not what I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm saying I agree with your
point. You agree with your point.
They're going first. Yeah, those
motorcycles can go faster from zero to
whatever, whether they want to or not or
need to or whatever. Just the bike
itself can go faster. Are you seeing
other cities or towns reporting that
same situation?
Anecdotally, yes. We don't have the
data. Um, and unfortunately, this will
sound harsh, but the individuals that
are involved in those accidents,
especially when it's a motorcycle, are
often fatal and especially when they're
going that extreme speed. So, we don't
know unless the witnesses tell us that
they were and in some cases they have
told us that they lane split, got to the
front, then they just took off and then
that's when the accident happened. So,
we don't have rough data to identify how
many actions are occurring shortly after
someone lane split, but that's just our
general observations. if you could work
on like getting some of that data from
the other cities, I'd be interested in
that because I think as a body of
government, if we're seeing an issue and
that law change is creating more
accidents, fatalities, and we're seeing
that across the valley, you know, we
might have the responsibility to get
together with other cities and towns to
see if we can change, you know, revert
that law to save lives. Yeah, mayor and
council member Bonjivan, we can reach
out to GOHS um and see and that between
them and AOT to see if they have any
data. Other than that, we can see what
other cities are uh seeing or reporting.
Okay. I I have some suggestions later,
but I want to hear from other council
members. Thank you, Council Member
Buckling.
Thank you,
Mayor. So, Commander, um, with with the
stat
that speed sites are down, but the
number one crash was, uh, recorded as
speed too fast for
conditions. Am I safe in assuming that
nine years later after I retired, that's
still a catch-all? So, it doesn't mean
those were high speeds. A lot of those
are low speeds and mostly rearenders. Is
that accurate?
Yeah, Mayor and Council Member Buckland,
that's very accurate. Uh speed too fast
for conditions doesn't mean that you're
necessarily violating the speed limit.
It just means that you're uh driving too
fast at that time to avoid whatever is
stopped in front of you generally. So
speed too fast for conditions does not
mean it's a a technical speed violation,
but you're you're traveling too fast to
control your vehicle to avoid the
collision. So it is that is a very high
catch all. You're correct. Okay. and and
most of those in the catch all are rear
end still. I guess like years past. Yes.
Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that I think that
can elude to we're not doing our job. Um
but a lot of those I know from personal
experience um they're really too close.
Um as they're approaching a red light or
whatever it is and then we're not paying
attention, they smack in the back of
somebody. Um Chief had mentioned
staffing being an issue. Uh just a
comment. Um, and I it's it's gonna hurt
council member Bonjivani, but I I I
agree with the chief completely. In the
early 2000s, when I was a traffic
sergeant here, we had six traffic
officers. We were about a 90 to 100,000
people. Now we're about
293,000. We've only added three motors.
So, I I think as a council, we need to
really embrace um what we need to do to
help bolster that staff so we can
protect our citizens. We can support our
our our chief, support our engineering
team who has to, you know, fight all the
all the scientific battles um and our
cops that are out there risking their
lives. So, um I agree with that
completely and um I think we we we
really need to work on on staffing to
help you guys. One last question. uh are
the motors so in the past motors in
Gilbert were focused solely on traffic
enforcement not collision investigation.
I know the CPAs do a lot of that. Are
are patrols are they taking up the
remainder of that or is traffic units
are they are they now doing traffic
investigations so they're on the side of
the road right writing up a wreck not
out fighting traffic?
Mayor and Council Member Buckland, our
uh daytime traffic motors do not handle
accidents. Uh we have traffic
reconstruction detectives who handle
serious and fatal collisions. Uh they're
part of the day traffic unit. They're in
vehicles, but they are not their primary
focus is accident reconstruction and
investigation to get the proper
investigations done. Then I commend the
leadership for that. That's uh that's
best way to fight that I believe. So
thank you. I have no further mayor.
Thank you, Council Member Lions.
Um, you alluded to earlier staffing. I
think you said you have nine day
officers and one night. Did I hear that
correctly?
We have nine day traffic officers and a
sergeant. And then we have one night
sergeant and three night motors who are
in vehicles that focus on DUI and
impaired drivers. Okay. And maybe I
misunderstood. I just want some clarity
here on the investigative side of it.
Are they part of that nine and part of
the So, if you break it down, when you
look at our day traffic unit, uh the
unit includes the uh officers on
motorcycles as well as the officers in
the construction unit. If you break that
down, I'm sorry, the the reconstruction
unit. If you break it down, we currently
have uh six officers assigned to motor
patrol on motorcycles with one sergeant
also on a motorcycle. The other uh two
would be reconstruction detectives.
Okay. And chief, this may be a question
for you. Have you guys done a study to
determine what would be an adequate
staffing level in order to reach a level
of enforcement that you think is optimum
for optimal for our community? Mayor and
Council Member Lions, uh we've done
staffing studies for all of the calls
for service. We haven't focused
specifically on traffic. I can tell you
that our forecast has been and will
continue to be to continue annually to
add at least between one and two uh not
only of the motors uh but also our CPTs
to do the accidents as well. Uh we've
added uh I believe one or two CPTs uh
over the last eight years that I've been
here. Uh we've um it's on our list that
we ask for each year and based on the
priorities of all of our needs. Um we
haven't added to the motor uh unit, but
they are overdue uh for additions and we
do have that scheduled in the next over
the next 5 years several to add. Plus
eventually we would um split off that
recon unit um and have that be a unit in
itself in addition to the the uh day
motors and the night traffic unit. But
both uh need to be increased. Do you
know by how much though? Have you done a
study to determine what that need to be?
And the reason I asked this question is
that speed is an issue in town. Um
my I live over by Higgley and the joke
over there is the speed limit 65 rather
than the 45 posted. And my boys run PT
in that area and several of them to
council member Bon Giovani's point have
nearly been hit running on the sidewalk.
So, um, you know, I I I feel like
there's a shortage there that we need to
address and I'd like if you know, if you
have some data to be able to pull that
forward. If not, I I think we need to be
looking at that to be able to bring it
to us so we have something concrete to
look at. Uh, mayor and council member
Lions, um, I would agree to you that,
um, we we do need to increase the
traffic unit, but even with the traffic
unit with 72 square miles, even if I
tripled um, the traffic unit to 18 motor
officers, we still need to supplement
that with patrol officers. And of
course, they're going to get tied up
with all the normal activities of
patrol. But in order to saturate the
city throughout, we need to build on
both sides, both on the patrol teams and
the traffic units. Uh but we can look at
that and see if we can get some more
specific data um to hone in on that. I
can show you what we have scheduled. Um
but uh that's based on what our current
levels are, knowing we need to increase
it and spacing that out amongst our
other needs. Um but it it does take in a
combination of both patrol and traffic
units. And I'd like to see then uh an
analysis of both and what would be
considered optimum for a community our
size and the traffic flow that we have.
Yeah. And we can also look at
comparisons uh comparable cities of what
they have u motor units um uh a ratio to
our citizens and whatnot. Okay. Thank
you as well. Council member Capowski.
Thank you for the presentation. Um I
appreciated the comparison and and and
rates by population. that was very
helpful. Um, I think overall from my
standpoint, the goal is always going to
be zero serious injuries and fatalities.
Everyone deserves to get home safe in
our community.
And when it comes to motor vehicle
crashes, the speeds and angles of those
crashes are so important. Um, so that's
going to be a big focus. And as we
continue on, you know, vehicle sizes are
getting bigger, vehicles are we are
weighing more. So, I think this is this
is an area that's um very important to
me. I wanted to ask about
um to PD, but also to the rest of
council to gauge
um the use of automated enforcement for
red light running. I know the city of
Tempee just implemented that
tool. Phoenix is re-implementing it as a
tool and I know it's always on the
chopping block at the legisl at the
legislature. Um but I'm I'm just curious
as to what has what has driven past
decisions and would that be something
that could assist in expanding coverage
for the community? uh mayor and council
member Kapowski. Uh we have not since
I've been chief, I have not approached
that topic. I've thought about that
topic. Uh coming from Mesa and my
experience in Mesa, we had both red
light uh cameras and photo safety. And
from the data and our experience, my
experience there, we saw that the red
light cameras were highly effective in
reducing accidents and photo safety. It
was um varied at best with the exception
of school zones and they still have them
and that's basically what they have now
are dedicated school zones with photo
safety so that when you see the flashing
35 or less that those are strictly
enforced and that has reduced accidents
as well and uh violations and of
speeding in that area. Um, but the data
does show that the red light cameras and
I think most people if you know your
routes, you know where those are at and
people traditionally will know it and
they'll slow down and make sure when it
turns yellow they slow down rather than
speed up. So the traffic data, the
accident data that we see valleywide
indicates that that would be a positive
thing. You are correct in the fact that
every year at least for the last 15
years plus um there's been efforts um
statewide to ban them and each year they
have been defeated um with legislation
but they keep trying and so uh we also
take direction from council and
management. If that's something that uh
the council would like us to explore we
could look at that data. Um but we have
not ventured into that topic yet.
Thank you. I I would appreciate comments
from council members on that topic. It
um I guess gets to the point of
discussion if possible.
Um and I just want to mention that there
is a community in the United States of
similar size to Gilbert that has
achieved zero fatalities and that's
Jersey City in New Jersey. Um 290,000
people and their neighbor Hoboken, New
Jersey. And that's through um con like
targeted safety efforts. And I do
appreciate also the comment about it's
not just engineering, it's not just
enforcement, it is education. I'm see
I'm seeing a lot of um driving school
vehicles around the community. I think
that our teen driver population has just
exploded um recently. I know that if you
look at kind of the population stats,
that's that that's a that's happening
right now in Gilbert. And I think
something that I hope parents will put
their teen drivers and inexperienced
drivers into driving school because
that's something that unfortunately is
no longer 100% coverage through our
schools. Um thank you. Thank you. U
mayor and council member Kapowski. Um I
thought of something earlier when you
guys were speaking. We talked about our
population increase and how greatly
we've increased. But also keep in mind,
and I bring this up because I've seen
the construction on 202 of how that
traffic flow is greatly changed and
Lindsay Road right now is the main
location between Gilbert and Bista
that's not obstructed currently by
construction. And the volume is just
tremendous. And keep in mind with all of
our growth, Queen Creek, um, Santan
Ranch, everything to the south and
southeast of us, in order to get to the
freeways and get to the metro area,
they're coming through Gilbert. Most of
them, some are going through Mesa, but
most of them are coming through Gilbert.
And so that in addition our growth, the
growth of other communities impacting
our roadways as well. And I think that's
where we're seeing on our traffic counts
as well. It's not just Gilbert
residents, obviously visitors, but
people um going across Gilbert to get
out into the Phoenix area.
Thank you. Council member Torres, have
you seen anything environmental or
educational that has a great effect? I
mean, because we're talking about great,
you can add officers, you can add
cameras, it's budgeting, it's time, it's
all those things, but the culture
itself, the environment, and the
education of it. What have you seen that
would actually change that? I mean, is
it is it like your mom on the way out
the door, drive safe? I mean, what what
is it that would change some behavior?
uh mayor and council member Torson. I'll
speak and I don't know if Susanna wants
to add anything for because I think a
lot of that behavior is engineering um
because you change the behavior of the
roadway so to speak that can have an
impact for us and I'll I'll have you
reflect you don't have to admit anything
but if you see a police officer on the
roadway you probably change your driving
behavior even if it's just to check and
make sure you're not speeding make sure
you're not you know you're staying in
your lane and I think that's the normal
reaction when
people see police officers, they do a
double check to make sure I'm not
speeding, I'm in my lane, I'm not
obstruct, you know, tailgating or
anybody. So, there's that visual
deterrent, but as we we mentioned, if we
added 200 police officers to the
roadway, we'd still have people driving
crazy. But that helps um and it between
education, social media, engineering,
every little bit helps um reduce that
and that behavior. And um you know, we
we we talked about the education
component. When we pull people over,
it's not always a ticket. Um we we talk
to the person, we gauge how they react,
we gauge um the violation, where it
occurred, what time of day, and um do
the best to either enforce or educate.
And sometime it may be a little of both.
You may get a ticket. Um but we're going
to um you might be going 15 over, but we
write it for 10. there's differences
based on the the fee structure that can
cut them a little bit break, but we're
still sending the message. Um there's a
lot more that we could do obviously with
more people engineering wise. I I gave
you that one example that um traffic
engineering had provided me for Val
Vista and Warner or excuse me, Lindsay
and Warner is the intersection. I don't
know if I said Val Vista before, but
it's Lindsay and Warner. And they are
continuing to look at uh different
intersections. uh not only us but AOT I
know uh Germaine and Higgley if I
remember correctly they just re redid
those intersections as well. So there's
a lot of engineering part that does play
a factor. I believe you guys got an
email from a resident recently about
left turn lanes around Morrison Ranch of
uh that difficulty of seeing around
vehicles and part of his driver behavior
of positioning yourself in a location to
best see and if you can't see don't go
and if you if it's non-stop traffic you
might be better off looking to the right
and merging back into traffic and going
around. Uh but a lot of it's just driver
behavior and changing that behavior and
so we're open to ideas. Um, but it's got
to be a combination of the four E that
we talked about.
Vice Mayor,
um, I would like to say that I am in
favor of the red light cameras. So, u, I
I think I I recall many years ago that
there were red lights and it did make me
drive better. you know, I didn't like it
and I don't remember if I ever got a
ticket. But so anyway, I just wanted to
put that out there. Uh my thoughts here,
uh I like all the ideas that have been
put out here. Uh what I would like to
see is when you do this data, I want to
see the numbers and the cost, the
budget. So, I want to see the the budget
numbers of what doing all of these, you
know, different items so that that gives
your department the information to know
maybe what you can investigate more that
we might want to do or not want to do
because of the cost. because as you
know, we we've been working several
years to get to get our officers in the
right numbers and and everything and and
this is great to to talk about this, but
we also want to make sure we we have the
the budget and the numbers to go with
it. And uh let's see.
Um, yeah. Do do you have any data that
shows how many
vehicles cross from Queen Creek, Santan
Valley, and maybe that Florence area?
And so the if we do we have numbers of
people coming in, how many?
I do not immediately have that answer,
but certainly it is one that we would
like to look into for you and and get
back with you. Yeah, I I'd like to know
what that is because there I think it's
a huge number because we're we are a
thorough fair and especially the South
Gilbert area for them to come through
and you know I mean they use our roads
and wear them out just like we do. But
uh you know to go anywhere they go
almost they've got to come through the
area where we are. So all right that's
it for me. Thank you, Council Member
Bonjivani. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I want
to make sure I wasn't misunderstood with
Council Member um, Buckland. I'm I'm
actually for increased staffing for the
police. I didn't want to make sure I
want to make sure I said that. Okay. Um,
I love the education you guys have done.
So, I came up with an idea that I I I
hope would help. I know that every two
years when our streets are littered with
4x4 political signs, one thing happens.
Residents read them. They may complain
about them, but they read them. I would
like to see if there's any support on
council. I would like to see a a
a 4x4 sign campaign to see if we could
start working on some driver behaviors.
Now, I'm not looking for Gilbert
kindness here. I'm not looking for
please slow down. I'm looking for direct
messages. Have a couple I came up with.
Um, a motorcyclist was killed here. Slow
down. Your text message isn't worth a
child's life. Put your phone down. Save
a life. Um, do not pass in a school
zone. I see that every single day and it
drives me absolutely nuts. I think if we
could put up 40 50 signs 4x4s in certain
areas for a period of I don't know three
four months and compare the data. In my
mind it's kind of like um almost having
a what chief said almost having a a
police officer pull by the side of you
just driving. If they can see it, maybe
we can make a behavioral change, you
know, and if we can make some behavioral
change by comparing some data and it
saves some lives, it's it's worth
trying. But I think it has to be direct.
I think it has to be innovative and
creative and not necessarily nice, just
the facts. And I'm I'm wondering if what
other council members may think of
something like that.
Council member Buckland.
Uh to answer Council Member Bonjavani's
question, I I I'd want to know more. I'm
not sold that would change driving
behavior or would it divert their
attention from driving? I'm not sure on
that one. Um
to secondly, to answer um Council Member
Kapowski's
question, I can tell you I can't speak
for the last nine years. I can tell you
as the the special ops commander, a
traffic lieutenant, traffic sergeant,
for those many years, prior councils
were adamantly opposed to red light
cameras. I can tell you at one point I
was it was give me more people. Um I I
aired tonight in making an assumption.
Uh thank you council member Lions for
catching that and asking a deeper
question because um I was assuming that
the nine were all motors. So what I
heard was the same number that I had
when I took over the union in 2001, six
motors. We still what 24 years later
have only six motors. So I think the
number one thing we can do is beef up
our staffing. Um what the red light
cameras don't capture are the drunks,
the warrants, uh the suspended licenses,
the DVs, the other problems um that may
be behind the speeding. And they also
don't have the human element of grace
when grace is desert. So,
um, I'm torn because I also know that
the data doesn't lie and I'm data
driven. So, and the ultimate goal is to
save lives. Uh, uh, in the past when I
was asked by council to do a study more
than a decade ago and Mesa had the same
results, uh, which was, uh, a reduction
in crashes, but it plateaued. And then
when they were moving those cameras, it
was like a $30,000 expense per camera
move. And at the time, Mesa was losing
money on that program. Having said that,
that's a long time ago. I'm presuming
that uh their very smart uh leadership
made changes. I don't know though if
they're if they're still losing money
with our budget. I'm not interested in
in throwing money away and losing money.
So, I I guess where I'm getting at, and
I don't want to be wishy-washy. There's
just a lot of questions, a lot that we
don't know to to specifically answer
that question. It's probably worth a
look.
Council member Toruson,
I disagree with you on something. People
read signs like there's no business.
That's why those moronic signs, hey,
there's buckle up, click it or ticket,
everything you can think of, people read
and that's why they're out there. But to
what you're saying, I have no problem
contributing 40 signs at my expense to
experiment and see if that will work
because I'm tired of sitting at a cigar
bar and hearing a crash and knowing
somebody died 200 yards away from me and
it happened I think three times in the
last year. So I will contribute out of
my pocket 40 signs and let's see if that
works. Does anybody have a problem with
that? Chris, is that okay? I can Can I
do that?
Council, Council Member Torres, and that
would be permissible if you want to
donate something to the town. I'll do
it. Um I think something to consider, I
don't know, is we we do have a sign code
and so we would have to if that's the
council direction, I'll defer to Patrick
on that. Work within the sign code,
right? Or we can signs and rights of way
and things like that. Or we can write an
ordinance for special circumstances.
That's correct. Absolutely. You know, we
have some electronic signs on Gilbert
Road.
Now, Council Member Lions,
just a a couple observations. I I do
know, and this relates to this the sign
aspect of it. Every time I see one of
those little memorials with the crosses
next to an intersection or something, if
my wife's in the car, kids in the car,
we have a conversation about it and it
makes me me think and I and I ponder
that. So, I do think there may be a
degree of effectiveness with it. And I
know like in the school zones where they
put the 15 mph sign right out in the
middle of the roadway, I do 15 miles an
hour. I make sure of that.
Um, as far as the red light cameras
concerned, you know, um, I have some uh
issues about the privacy side of it, but
also to the gaming of the system. I know
that there have been cases where yellow
lights have been shortened in order to
get ticket enforcement, but u from an
anecdotal perspective, what I ran into u
personally is I got a ticket uh mailed
to me 120 or 140 days after a citation
in my truck and I wasn't driving my
truck and I didn't know about it till I
went to go renew the registration.
ticket happened in Sierra Vista,
Arizona, and I was living in another
state at the time. So, it became an
issue there and um you know, it came
with a photograph and and one of the
questions was asked that, you know,
here's your picture with that. And I'm
like, that's not me. So, fortunately, I
knew who it was that was driving it and
they were more than willing to pay it.
But, I think that that that is a problem
with them. So, I'm kind of cautious on
that and the cost of them from what I've
seen and and I would have to go back and
look at this. there is a um they don't
always pay for themselves. So, you know,
there is an extra cost to the community
on that. And I find just my perspective
honestly, I've seen how effective an
empty police cruiser sitting on the side
of the road can be to slow people down.
So, I think that there are things that
we can do that are low cost, no cost
that can help address the problem. So,
that's my opinion. Thank you, Vice
Mayor.
Um, I what I would like to do on the red
light cameras and I'm not sure and I'll
do some investigating myself, but you
know, why were people so adamantly
against them and and I get that nobody
wants to get a red light ticket, but you
helped explain a little bit of that. I
Why I my suggestion would be let's uh
keep track if you guys can keep track.
Chimpy just enacted red light cameras I
believe this week or last week and it
can we maybe watch the data on what
they're doing and how that's working
there and then come back to that maybe
another time on the red light cameras.
What do you think of that? Yeah. Yeah.
So, that's just my suggestion on the red
light cameras is I don't I don't want to
just adamantly say no, I don't want them
because I think they're effective and uh
but they will cost money and and but
they'll generate you hope they generate
enough money to pay for most everything,
but it just depends. If you could do
that, that would that would be great.
Thank you, Council Member Kapowski. Um,
thanks for the robust discussion on this
and just wanted to follow up on some of
the discussion that was made regarding
the signs. Um, I think perhaps thinking
about some of the content may be
imperative. However, I am open to trying
anything. I think that this
is this is essentially the only risk we
have in our lives. this quality of life
that we take in our hands every day
driving on our roads, walking on our
roads, biking on our roads. Um, and if
we can make it that much better, there
is a so there is a societal value of a
life. So, I know we're talking about
costs and we're talking about personnel
and the cost for automated enforcement,
but there's a cost to society for losing
these individuals in our community and
that has a lot of value as well. Um, I I
do want to mention that the parks, the
Gilbert Parks and Recre Foundation has a
bike safety
um bucket of funds that was actually
started by a community member who was
involved in a bike crash. And he took it
upon himself to try to make a positive
impact on our community. And through his
$25,000 per year donations, that's why
we have green paint on our roadways.
That's why we have signs to watch out
for bicyclists on our
roadways. I think that's the
responsibility of the municipality.
However, I think it's impressive that a
community member stepped up and did
that. So, kind of speaks to your don
wanting to donate the signs or wanting
to be involved because I think this is a
very important issue.
Um, I want to mention that regarding the
signs, the national day of remembrance
for road safety, a road traffic victims
is around November. It's a world, it's a
world day, and there are communities
that will do signs like you mentioned
about um someone was killed at this
intersection, etc. So, I think that
that's something to look at. And
regarding the photo enforcement
programs, um I do know that the city of
Mesa um for the past three years has
been investing a surplus of funds of $1
million a year into road safety projects
back into their community and that money
has been coming from their uh camera
safety camera program.
Thank you, Council Member Tores. I feel
free to say this since it's well beyond
the statute of limitations. I received
31 tickets in 32 days. All for the exact
same speed at the exact same spot on the
freeway. And the camera was directly in
front of the new lowered speed when it
went down to 55. And every single
ticket, and I guarantee I'm not that
perfect a driver, was 66 miles per hour.
And I know that company ended up in
trouble for fixing tickets, for fixing
those things, for making it happen to a
lot of people. I got 31 tickets in 32
days. I avoided service like a good like
a a good citizen does, but I don't trust
those things to save my life. And I
wouldn't want to subject anybody to
that. It's an invasion of your privacy.
I understand there's a public service to
it, but when there's profit to be made
by a private company on that, they will
put their interests ahead of the
interests of the people, ahead of the
interest of the drivers. And I watched
it happen because I know exactly where
that camera was placed, when it was
placed, and I know I'm not that perfect
a driver to hit that same number every
time.
So, we want to talk about red light
cameras. I'll be having the Coke in the
back and you guys talk about your red
light cameras.
I appreciate the robust discussion. We
need to wrap this up pretty quick.
Um, go ahead, council member. Thank you,
mayor. I I haven't heard your response
yet for the potential signs, but if we
have a consensus, I would like to work
with Janice's team to come up with some
messaging also. Um, if we do do those
signs.
Thank you. I I I firmly believe exactly
what uh the chief said. This is a
behavior problem and we whatever we can
do to change behavior. It's an operator
issue. The operator needs to learn how
to drive on our streets and if it's
signs or if it's red light cameras,
whatever it is, they'll change behavior
that I'm in full support of that. The
other thing I'm that I haven't heard
discussed tonight were trail crossings
at streets. Uh we still have a number of
them that are not lighted and I see
people on bikes all the time out in the
middle of the street trying to cross and
it's uh I'm fear for them every time I
see them. But are Susan, are we on
schedule to get those trail crossings uh
lighted? Yes, we are. We're working
through I think five or six of them
right now in trying to get them through
the design and moving forward. We did
have some challenges that they don't
normally meet the the normal distance
away from an intersection because the
trails don't always line up exactly with
our grid system. So, we have been
working through that and and working
into that design and we should be seeing
some happening here pretty soon for some
additional um crossings that are
signalized. Thank you. That's something
I can report back to a constituent that
came to my house and knocked on my door
about it. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you again. Thank you council for
the discussion. I think u we've got some
homework to do. We can collect some data
and we'll look to uh engineering and the
police department to help us in
gathering that data. So thank you very
much.
Thank you. Thank you mayor.
We'll uh I need a motion to adjourn our
study session.
I make a motion to adjourn. We are
adjourned. We'll reconvene in council uh
meeting in uh three minutes.
Five minutes. Okay.
Okay.
Welcome to town hall and thank you for
attending a Gilbert public meeting. Here
are a few things to know. The meeting
will be